Merged: Psychics channel Michael

[Louise.]

Hugs to you too, Neeve & everyone else. :hug:

I'm off to bed now, speak soon lovelies. :flowers:

 

[mjbunny]

Wow, Mrs. Music that was a creepy dream :mello: Louise's dream sounded much better. LOL about the hiccup :lol:

One of the people I was with walked up talk to the cops and came back and said "you guys better hold your breath." so we all agreed to jump off the next stop we did, and nothing happend except there was a little fire in the corner so we all laughed and said wow no reason to be worried and then for some strange reason my friend said "wait...hydrogen bomb" 0_o but we all looked at eachother as if we new and started booking out of the subway to the street and then we hard an explosion and then I woke up. The explosion and us running was all in slow motion like it would be in a movie. idk it was so weird, and random that it was all michael fans.

:bugeyed Eeeeek.

I had some weird dreams last night. There's always MJ mentioned in some way, lol, but one thing that stood out from last night was dreaming that Michael Palin unexpectedly died. Wtf? Talk about random. For those who think that's someone in Sarah Palin's family :lol:, no no... Michael Palin was in Monty Python and nowadays he does documentaries for BBC. After that I dreamed that a friend of mine had opened a multi-plex theater house and the equipment that ran the place was based on hot water going through the floors, powered by some big violet-tinged light bulb. The bulb broke and someone provided another that was too big and later I realized that the water beneath the floor was BOILING. The floors were soooooo hot that my shoes were melting almost. I was like OMG... all the people inside watching movies are going to die! They're going to be cooked to death! (Very weird. Will email her in case there's something wrong with her house or business...)

Anyway all of a sudden I feel like someone is staring at me, like there is something in my room besides me. That's what I felt but I was scared stiff. I didn't roll over too look. So I shut my eyes and then I feel something on my arm, like a cold hand. My heart was racing so fast I said in my head "Michael, I know I asked for this, but im not ready im scared sh*tless" lmao im scared of everything. so then I felt whatever the cold was withdraw. Then I thought to myself, I asked for this, I have to accept this, I dont want him to go away and I said in my head "Michael its alrite" I was still scared as hell, but I felt the cold again and then I went to sleep right away.

Cool Love the "I know I asked for this, but..." part :lol: Your wording made me think of Thriller :lmao: I just want to say... Michael, just to reiterate for the 300th time... it's ok ... just appear I'll take the fright. I promise. a-hee-hee

"I don't think it's so much about Karma and working out Karma as it is that the soul comes with a purpose. Sometimes the soul comes in for the purpose of teaching others. I believe Michael's soul came to teach, I think he chose his life in order to recruit and lead. He was part of the shift and the enlightenment. I think there is more learning to come from Michael. You asked about his suffering. My understanding is that the soul plans the life prior to incarnation. Michael absolutely is/was a Bodhisattva. He came to assist humanity. His suffering was not part of HIS lesson but part of OURS. I do not believe Michael's work is finished. But more about that in the future. I am in the process of developing some new skills and working with another shaman and we will see what will be revealed."

She's so insightful, isn't she? I've written to her before as well. A bodhisattva from my understanding is yes, an advanced soul ... or potentially you or me (in this life or a future one). There's a path to that, to living in/with compassion, where you choose to live with complete compassion on the path to becoming a full bodhisattva. I'm slowly becoming more and more interested in Buddhism. But anyway...regarding all of this... somedays to me it seems so clear and somedays so muddled. So often I myself and so many others think and talk about Michael as if he's nearly Jesus (I don't mean is, but is like him), saying things like "this must've been what if felt like for the apostles after Jesus died"... that kind of thing. And despite the way in which that would freak some people out, somedays it feels like that. Yet, I can also imagine a list of faults or supposed faults that someone could bring up that would seem to punch a hole in that theory. Michael was obviously not perfect. Just a human being like all of us. And then I could come back with the sheer number of people who love him, who've been inspired by him, who he helped (via charities, via visits to orphanages and hospitals, at Neverland, by just being MJ, on and on). And how he had to live a separate life just from a security and sanity standpoint. I remember some months ago when things were so vivid and I had a week or so that went by in which I kept asking, "Who ARE you, Michael????"... because I'm afraid of putting him on a pedestal and being embarrassed about it when I get over there :smilerolleyes: And then I think of how I always felt this ... spiritual connection and this amazing... I don't know what. And when I'm in a skeptical mood I ask, are we just freakin' delusional? Are we elevating him because of some internal need we have to have a spiritual leader of sorts (yes, he was a good guy, but are we pushing it way too far?) One night about a year ago I was listening to a radio show and a guy was talking about the human need to "worship", like how we invent these humanesque gods because we seem to have to. And I thought, "What BS. I'm totally alright relating to 'God' as everything, as a force, as a non-entity. I don't have a need to worship anyone. And I don't." And then I paused and thought.... ah crap... I guess I do in some way, if you want to take it like that (like in the radio dude's definition): it's Michael. And right then the radio guy said, "And nowadays as we fall away from religious figures, the need is often transferred to celebrities." :doh: Doh! And today I think.... I'm not nuts, right? I dont' give a flying you-know-what about celebrities. It's always been just Michael. Only Michael. Why? I don't know. And now so many others who aren't even fans have said they cried and cried when he died and they feel he was someone really special and they can't shake this weird feeling. My mom reported a non-fan saying, "Just WHO did we lose there????" People felt it, they feel it. That would tell me it's not just my delusion. But again... Michael, who ARE you??? :angel: (Sorry... I'm really tired right now and didn't even re-read that, so if it's nonsensical or weird... well, so it is :lol

 

[souldreamer7]

dreams of crashes and hiccuping, I don't know what to make of that!

OK so I promised you guys I would post what Barbara Kaufman said about the reasons behind suffering, and Michael's in particular:


"I don't think it's so much about Karma and working out Karma as it is that the soul comes with a purpose. Sometimes the soul comes in for the purpose of teaching others. I believe Michael's soul came to teach, I think he chose his life in order to recruit and lead. He was part of the shift and the enlightenment. I think there is more learning to come from Michael. You asked about his suffering. My understanding is that the soul plans the life prior to incarnation. Michael absolutely is/was a Bodhisattva. He came to assist humanity. His suffering was not part of HIS lesson but part of OURS. I do not believe Michael's work is finished. But more about that in the future. I am in the process of developing some new skills and working with another shaman and we will see what will be revealed."

This all makes a lot of sense to me. That Michael's purpose was to enlighten and lead, to help in this spiritual shift, which I know all of us here are feeling. I must read more about Bodhisattvas...I looked up a little, and it seems it's a very enlightened person, like maybe a super-evolved soul, which I've always seen in Michael. Does anyone else know more about this?
I am interested to see what happens in the future, regarding what she said about Michael's work not being finished.
It makes me sad that a person would have to suffer so much in order to teach others.
So, what do you guys think?

This I agree with. I've had expereinces that kind of confirm this sort of thing from June- Sept. very strongly. :yes:

 

[Neeve]

This I agree with. I've had expereinces that kind of confirm this sort of thing from June- Sept. very strongly. :yes:

definitely! :yes:

She's so insightful, isn't she? I've written to her before as well. A bodhisattva from my understanding is yes, an advanced soul ... or potentially you or me (in this life or a future one). There's a path to that, to living in/with compassion, where you choose to live with complete compassion on the path to becoming a full bodhisattva. I'm slowly becoming more and more interested in Buddhism. But anyway...regarding all of this... somedays to me it seems so clear and somedays so muddled. So often I myself and so many others think and talk about Michael as if he's nearly Jesus (I don't mean is, but is like him), saying things like "this must've been what if felt like for the apostles after Jesus died"... that kind of thing. And despite the way in which that would freak some people out, somedays it feels like that. Yet, I can also imagine a list of faults or supposed faults that someone could bring up that would seem to punch a hole in that theory. Michael was obviously not perfect. Just a human being like all of us. And then I could come back with the sheer number of people who love him, who've been inspired by him, who he helped (via charities, via visits to orphanages and hospitals, at Neverland, by just being MJ, on and on). And how he had to live a separate life just from a security and sanity standpoint. I remember some months ago when things were so vivid and I had a week or so that went by in which I kept asking, "Who ARE you, Michael????"... because I'm afraid of putting him on a pedestal and being embarrassed about it when I get over there :smilerolleyes: And then I think of how I always felt this ... spiritual connection and this amazing... I don't know what. And when I'm in a skeptical mood I ask, are we just freakin' delusional? Are we elevating him because of some internal need we have to have a spiritual leader of sorts (yes, he was a good guy, but are we pushing it way too far?) One night about a year ago I was listening to a radio show and a guy was talking about the human need to worship, like how we invent these humanesque gods because we seem to have to. And I thought, "What BS. I'm totally alright relating to 'God' as everything, as a force, as a non-entity. I don't have a need to worship anyone. And I don't." And then I paused and thought.... ah crap... I guess I do: Michael. And right then the radio guy said, "And nowadays as we fall away from religious figures, the need is often transferred to celebrities." :doh: Doh! And today I think.... I'm not nuts, right? I dont' give a flying you-know-what about celebrities. It's always been just Michael. Only Michael. Why? I don't know. And now so many others who aren't even fans have said they cried and cried when he died and they feel he was someone really special and they can't shake this weird feeling. My mom reported a non-fan saying, "Just WHO did we lose there????" People felt it, they feel it. That would tell me it's not just my delusion. But again... Michael, who ARE you??? :angel: (Sorry... I'm really tired right now and didn't even re-read that, so if it's nonsensical or weird... well, so it is :lol

Thanks for the info. I'm really getting interested in all this too. You have no idea how many books I've ordered from Amazon in past months on channeling, the astral plane what happens when we die, chakras, shadow work... I'm learning so much.
I totally understand what you said about Michael and Jesus. OK I'll try to keep this short. I was brought up Catholic, I've always had a strong faith and a relationship with God and Jesus. But I always had issues with church doctrine - women in the church, the idea of "sin", hell, things like homosexuality being wrong, and general lack of acceptance and open-mindedness in the church. I always stuck with it because I believed in the spiritual aspect of it. But I always had questions and things just didn't fit for me. I've been searching for a long time, trying to figure out what I believe and what I don't. It's known that the Bible has been censored in parts, you know the gnostic texts, bits taken out. It's also known that it was in the Council of Nicea that the pope and bishops decided that Jesus being God was put into the doctrine. This really made me question things... how much can we trust? Then I started thinking, maybe all these things I disagree with in the church, were put in by people, not by God.
And finally, finally, in the last number of months, things are beginning to fit for me. My beliefs have changed. All the reading, reflecting, meditating, talking, I'm doing, are changing my views. I now believe that Jesus was a prophet, was human, but certainly a super-evolved soul. He knew what his purpose was. I just think his message has been manipulated at times. So in this way, I can really see similarities between Michael and Jesus. Please let me be clear, I'm not disrespecting anyone else's beliefs. This is just my viewpoint on it. I'm not saying Michael was anything more than human. but I don't think Jesus was either. Although Jesus did seem to have a very clear knowledge of the higher dimensions, if you will. So I'm sure he was probably the most developed soul to come to earth.
I think we all have the potential to reach that stage, like you said, in a future life, to truly join with God/the universe/all-there-is. I think divinity is when our souls can get to full understanding, and communion with other souls. So I think we're all equal in that way, and our lives here help us to get closer and closer to that potential, until we reach it. So for me it's completely natural that Michael has caused this spiritual shift that you mentioned. I think he was a powerful energy here and a lot changed when he passed. I believe he's still in touch with us, still working here, but in a different way.
So yeah, like you, I catch myself sometimes putting him on a pedestal, and I wonder if that's a good idea or not. But I think he's here to teach us, and it's natural to admire a teacher, and a soul so evolved. But yes, he had faults, and I need to remind myself of that sometimes.
Wow, that was long. But this has helped me to put things straight in my mind. All this is constantly on my mind all the time.....I feel like I'm constantly revising what I believe, wondering how everything fits in...... so sorry for all that!!
I love this thread!

 

[Asedora]

definitely! :yes:





I totally understand what you said about Michael and Jesus. OK I'll try to keep this short. I was brought up Catholic, I've always had a strong faith and a relationship with God and Jesus. But I always had issues with church doctrine
. I've been searching for a long time, trying to figure out what I believe and what I don't. It's known that the Bible has been censored in parts, you know the gnostic texts, bits taken out. It's also known that it was in the Council of Nicea that the pope and bishops decided that Jesus being God was put into the doctrine. This really made me question things... how much can we trust? Then I started thinking, maybe all these things I disagree with in the church, were put in by people, not by God.
And finally, finally, in the last number of months, things are beginning to fit for me. My beliefs have changed. All the reading, reflecting, meditating, talking, I'm doing, are changing my views. I now believe that Jesus was a prophet, was human, but certainly a super-evolved soul. He knew what his purpose was.

I am sorry for popping up here again. Neeve I just could not walk away from your post because I have a problem with Christian doctrine as well. I was doing my own research and I came to conclusion (it might be wrong though) that Jesus was a prophet. If we look at human history especially at European ancient history, we will find out that ppl used to call Alexander Macedonian for example “Son of God”. And it was normal. It was sort of ancient European (and non European) tradition to connect important and famous ppl with divinity, with God. I am assuming that the same happened with Jesus. Personally I believe that Jesus was a prophet but I do not know why the Church decided to worship him like he was God? Myself I belong to Orthodox Christianity which has very straight rules and it is not flexible at all. I would say I accept many things from Gospel (not from Torah, I accept very little from Torah) but many questions still remain without an answer. I really have a problem with Christianity at this point. I am kind of not ready to leave this religion and at the same time I cannot worship Jesus like he was God. I deeply respect Jesus but I cannot think about him like my Church wants me to think. I absolutely understand Holy Trinity concept etc. But I do not understand why only a few books were chosen as part of Gospel? Also, I have a feeling based on my experience that spiritual world and Universe is much more complex than Christian traditional doctrine.
OK, I believe that Christianity can be a very good base, a first step for soul improvement just like other religions. This is my own doctrine sort of and I know from my experience that spiritual world contains many spheres in Universe and similar goes to similar in the end. Actually, this info was coming to me from nowhere. I was really surprised to receive it and it happened when I was in terrible stress because one my closest relative has cancer. I have never read about this before but later on I have read something similar but not the same. It fits me and it makes sense to me. I just wanted to share partially this concept with you but it less than 10% of the whole “message”.
Regarding Jesus, I still admire him as a prophet and look at him like he was a very advanced soul which came here to teach and share message from God and he suffered because he was humble and pure soul. I feel more comfortable with this concept. My Church certainly would consider it as a sin.

 

[Neeve]

I am sorry for popping up here again. Neeve I just could not walk away from your post because I have a problem with Christian doctrine as well. I was doing my own research and I came to conclusion (it might be wrong though) that Jesus was a prophet. If we look at human history especially at European ancient history, we will find out that ppl used to call Alexander Macedonian for example “Son of God”. And it was normal. It was sort of ancient European (and non European) tradition to connect important and famous ppl with divinity, with God. I am assuming that the same happened with Jesus. Personally I believe that Jesus was a prophet but I do not know why the Church decided to worship him like he was God? Myself I belong to Orthodox Christianity which has very straight rules and it is not flexible at all. I would say I accept many things from Gospel (not from Torah, I accept very little from Torah) but many questions still remain without an answer. I really have a problem with Christianity at this point. I am kind of not ready to leave this religion and at the same time I cannot worship Jesus like he was God. I deeply respect Jesus but I cannot think about him like my Church wants me to think. I absolutely understand Holy Trinity concept etc. But I do not understand why only a few books were chosen as part of Gospel? Also, I have a feeling based on my experience that spiritual world and Universe is much more complex than Christian traditional doctrine.
OK, I believe that Christianity can be a very good base, a first step for soul improvement just like other religions. This is my own doctrine sort of and I know from my experience that spiritual world contains many spheres in Universe and similar goes to similar in the end. Actually, this info was coming to me from nowhere. I was really surprised to receive it and it happened when I was in terrible stress because one my closest relative has cancer. I have never read about this before but later on I have read something similar but not the same. It fits me and it makes sense to me. I just wanted to share partially this concept with you but it less than 10% of the whole “message”.
Regarding Jesus, I still admire him as a prophet and look at him like he was a very advanced soul which came here to teach and share message from God and he suffered because he was humble and pure soul. I feel more comfortable with this concept. My Church certainly would consider it as a sin.

Hi Asedora,
I agree so much with your post.
I've done a lot of reading about the Christian church in ancient times, and there are a number of "reasons" for keeping certain doctrine out, and for changing some.....sadly, it was all about power. The men in charge of the church were afraid that people would get too powerful and turn against them, so they felt the best way to control them was by telling them that anything pleasurable is a sin, that women were inferior (before this, the idea of the sacred feminine was well-known and believed, but the men in power didn't want women to have the same power as them), and that Jesus was God because that means that our only salvation is through Jesus/God, which meant that the church was secure as our path to salvation. The idea was that people could never reach salvation on their own. The gospels that were left out indicate that Jesus was married - which would make people question if he was divine or human - and other teachings of his that didn't coincide with what the human institution of the church didn't want people to know or felt people wouldn't understand.

I found out something fascinating the other day - actually it was Barbara Kaufman who mentioned it to me, and I've looked up a lot of things since that agree: reincarnation WAS part of Christianity! Again, before the Council of Nicea. Iwas so excited when I heard this....because it makes sense. Apparently the reason for taking it out is because reincarnation suggests that the soul can keep learning and improving until it reaches divine status, but this conflicted with the church wanting to be people's only path to salvation. If all souls had the potential to be divine, then we could all theoretically be just like Jesus, and this would mean that he wasn't any more divine than us, and that therefore we don't need to go through him (and thus the church) for salvation. I'm intrigued by this.

Again, I don't want to disprespect anyone's beliefs. This is what I've found through doing a lot of reading and reflecting. In the end, maybe it doesn't even matter if Jesus was divine or not....I guess the important thing is how we live our lives, right? But I guess the fact that I was Catholic all my life, makes me feel like I can finally go against all these issues I couldn't accept for so long. So, this is my interpretation

 

[xo_lola_xo]

I consider myself Roman Catholic (not officially converted yet) but I take the "Jesus is son of God" ideology as a metaphor.

I take it as a metaphor because he was born to the virgin Mary and had a connection with the divine and brought Christianity. I simply see it as a metaphor because he had no father.

I also want to point out that I don't believe you need to go through Christ for salvation. I believe there is no right way. I believe God looks at the purity of your soul and what you have done for planet Earth - regardless of religion.

So you might wonder, why is she converting to Catholicism?

It's because that is my way of feeling and loving God. It's my way of connecting. And I also want to say that I will never, and can never, fully go by the rules and ideologies of ANY religion. I've just picked the closest one.

 

[FUJON]

Only God can forgive sins and Jesus could claim such authority because He is the Son of God, He could heal and forgive sins.
And in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, you can only receive it by Faith in Jesus, through the grace and mercy of God, to receive salvation and eternal life.
''I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me''

And Michael is like an Angel came to us with a messages and is Blessed with a Holy Spirit, that's why you're feel him very much and all this Love He came to this world to teach us, guide, to warn the world the last time? He is healed spiritual blindness in so many! And those who serve the satan here ( like sneddon, chandler, arvizo, media, others who poisoned his life here... ) were tried to mock him, to destroy him.
God Bless you, Michael

 

[Asedora]

I found out something fascinating the other day - actually it was Barbara Kaufman who mentioned it to me, and I've looked up a lot of things since that agree: reincarnation WAS part of Christianity! Again, before the Council of Nicea. Iwas so excited when I heard this....because it makes sense. Apparently the reason for taking it out is because reincarnation suggests that the soul can keep learning and improving until it reaches divine status, but this conflicted with the church wanting to be people's only path to salvation. If all souls had the potential to be divine, then we could all theoretically be just like Jesus, and this would mean that he wasn't any more divine than us, and that therefore we don't need to go through him (and thus the church) for salvation. I'm intrigued by this.

I agree with you so much as well. I have read somewhere long time ago that reincarnation was a part of Christianity from the beginning but then they cut it off and left aside this knowledge. Besides all books were written by man and I ma not sure that all of it was not done by Church to get a power. I still respect Christianity and I am a part of it myself
but my brain wants deeper knowelege and Christianity does not give me an answer.

I believe in reincarnation too but on a way that souls sort of have to come back and they choose to came back to material world for improvement because in spiritual world it is important to be as closer as possible to divine source of creation (God). I believe there are many levels/spheres in Universe a single soul can stay depending of the quality of each soul. Also I believe that souls choose their destiny before they come here. This is why I never go to mediums because I do not want them to read my destiny and I do not want to change it if I won't like something they see. If I change it, how it is good for my soul if I will not pass the lesson was planned? Some very old souls are probably were sent from very high spheres to remind ppl in physical world about divinity.

We are disconnected from divinity here, but maybe it was not like that from the before? At least the Bible using metaphors indicates this connection which was from the beginning of Creation.
This is a part of my own believes and my own doctrine I created for myself and I feel pretty comfortable with that. Sorry, I did not want to disrespect somebody else's believes.

Also, I have read a numbers of books about clinical death and near death experience. I do not remember ppl were saying that they saw Jesus. Most of this experience contains similar feelings about some dead relatives and many ppl saw Holy Light. I do not know what to think about it but it does make sense.
Who is Barbara Kaufman btw? Never heard this name.

 

[Neeve]

I consider myself Roman Catholic (not officially converted yet) but I take the "Jesus is son of God" ideology as a metaphor.

I take it as a metaphor because he was born to the virgin Mary and had a connection with the divine and brought Christianity. I simply see it as a metaphor because he had no father.

I also want to point out that I don't believe you need to go through Christ for salvation. I believe there is no right way. I believe God looks at the purity of your soul and what you have done for planet Earth - regardless of religion.

So you might wonder, why is she converting to Catholicism?

It's because that is my way of feeling and loving God. It's my way of connecting. And I also want to say that I will never, and can never, fully go by the rules and ideologies of ANY religion. I've just picked the closest one.

No, that totally makes sense. That's an interesting way of looking at it. I guess my problem is the Catholic church expects people to accept this as literal. Like when you receive Communion you are supposed to believe that you are truly receiving the Body of Christ. I did believe that for a long time, but since my beliefs have changed, I don't see it like that anymore.

But I think you made an excellent point - that it's important to question the rules and ideologies of any religion or belief system...otherwise how will you know what feels true to you?

I agree with you so much as well. I have read somewhere long time ago that reincarnation was a part of Christianity from the beginning but then they cut it off and left aside this knowledge. I believe in reincarnation myself but on a way that souls sort of have to come back and they choose to came back to material world for improvement because in spiritual world it is important to be as closer as possible to divine source of creation (God). I believe there are many levels/spheres in Universe a single soul can stay depending of the quality of each soul. Also I believe that souls choose their destiny before they come here. This is why I never go mediums because I do not want them to read my destiny and I do not want to change it if I won't like something they see. If I change it, how it is good for my soul if I will not pass the lesson was planned? Some very old souls are probably were sent from very high spheres to remind ppl in physical world about divinity. We are disconnected from divinity here, but maybe it was not like that from the beginning? At least the Bible using metaphors indicates this connection which was from the beginning of Creation.
This is a part of my own believes and my own doctrine I created for myself. Sorry, I did not want to disrespect somebody else's believes.
Also, I have read a numbers of books about clinical death and near death experience. I do not remember ppl were saying that they saw Jesus. Most of this experience contains similar feelings about some dead relatives and many ppl saw Holy Light. I do not know what to think about it but it does make sense.

Yeah the idea of destiny is a complicated one... I always wonder how much of it our spirit chooses before we come here... maybe it just chooses general ideas, like what lessons we have to learn, and lets the universe choose how that happens? I don't know.
But yes, I think it makes sense that our spirit returns here until we grow and learn what we need to....

 

[mjbunny]

:cheeky: Ah, I love this thread. People would believe we're just hanging out talking about MJ. A-hee-hee!

I grew up going to church and even wanted to be a minister when I was younger ... before I started thinking, "Hey, wait a minute... !" I've also done a lot of research over the years. In fact, religion fascinates me in general, even though I feel I could never truly be a part of any particular one. Yes, I've also read that reincarnation as well as other later 'banned' beliefs were very much part of early Christianity. It's a sad fact that many crave power and power corrupts. Things are written and declared and banned and murdered for... so that power structures can be created or stay in place. It's the same with political systems... any belief system that people accept and allow to 'rule' their land. Think of all the checks and balances we have in democracies, all attempting to keep the darker parts of the human being from subjugating the masses for their own greed and ego. In the old days of theocracy and monarchy, the church and/or the king had absolute power and so they were free to alter or destroy text where they saw fit, as it served their purpose. Over the centuries history is therefore rewritten by these victors... and it's up to us to realize that we may not be getting the full story. In any case, to avoid going on and on for pages, lol, I believe that no religion is all right or all wrong. It's like each belief system is one piece of a huge puzzle. One piece of the puzzle is still real, still valid ... but it's certainly not the whole picture. Only when we all come to realize this and accept that our little odd-shaped puzzle piece isn't THE ONE AND ONLY and is instead just one little piece of the story of God, we'll finally begin to work toward real understanding. Well, that's my two cents worth anyway.

Also, I have read a numbers of books about clinical death and near death experience. I do not remember ppl were saying that they saw Jesus. Most of this experience contains similar feelings about some dead relatives and many ppl saw Holy Light. I do not know what to think about it but it does make sense. Who is Barbara Kaufman btw? Never heard this name.

Barbara Kaufman writes the InnerMichael blog And what you said here... about visitations from dead relatives, etc... wow, I've thought of this soooo often since last summer. I've had so many experiences I believe were with/from Michael and soooooooo many others have as well. And it's made me wonder, bringing up religion now... did people really see Jesus? I mean like in person, the real guy, just standing there? In the Bible it's reported Jesus had a divine countenance about him, that he looked different... like people report those who've passed on do... like beautifully in their prime. Is this really different from the experiences of people these days? I've never seen a full figure of someone who's passed (not for lack of trying or wishing for it), but some people have! And people "saw" other prophets and historical figures as well. Or received messages from them, had dreams of them that were taken as something real and special. Were these experiences of less educated, non-scientifically-thinking people 2,000 years ago any more vivid or real than what happens to us? Maybe a bit more because they were more inclined to believe, but don't you suppose they were the same types of things that happen to all of us now? We were always brought up to believe that these religious things in past socieites were REAL, like in a miraculous way that doesn't usually occur. Or were they just as REAL as when we've felt/heard/dreamed of Michael... or our grandparents or anyone from the other side? Imagine just for a moment, as something silly just for example, that a thousand years from now there was an MJ religion. Think of our tales, the tales of those who lived in his time (lol, if Jesus had 12 disciples in his small corner of the world with a tiny world population and no mass media, Michael gets how many? 12,000? 1.2 million? 12 million?). Anyway, we fans have reported that we "saw" him, he "visited" us after death, told us things in dreams, we heard his voice, on and on. When you look at it that way... how different is this really to stories from centuries ago? Only different by faith, I think. I mean the faith that specific figures were either highly advanced and therefore more powerful or were incarnations of God and something beyond you or I. Then you can believe that Jesus showing up on your path was like... WHOA... way beyond anything that could ever happen to you short of the Second Coming. But maybe it was no different than when I saw a hand wave to me the night before my grandpa died... or all the beautiful and cherished moments I've had with Michael (thank you, Michael :heart :angel:

 

[CaptainEoLove85]

I had 3 dreams about Michael last night. The first one was kind of weird and scary at the end. Mjbunny and Amy, both of you guys were in it, and maybe one other person, but I'm not sure. This is how it went

We were all working in some Mexican or South American country, but at night we would all meet up at this nice apartment/hotel complex to try to connect with Michael. We all gathered together and there was this loud sound like a crack or boom. This sound happened on three different times and we had decided it was Michael's sign to us to connect to him, or that we had connected with him. The first time I heard the sound it scared me. On the third time we were suddenly floating down a river on a raft inside what looked like a dark ride at Disneyland. We all held on to each other and were singing “Man in the Mirror.” Then I was taking a look at the Psychic thread here. I noticed people posting whom I didn't recognize. There was one guy who wrote a message that said “How's this for a prediction? You're all dead!” And there were pictures of skulls and crossbones that represented each one of us. In the dream I thought it was funny because I was thinking how could I be dead? I wouldn't have been reading this thread if I was dead. But at the same time it really scared me and I was afraid to go back to sleep.

I woke up at 4am and started wondering am I really dead? :bugeyed Obviously not of course. So eventually I shook off the fear and went back to sleep and had these two dreams. The first one is kind of funny

I was watching TV and there was a Michael Jackson tribute on. It looked like from the HIStory tour. My parents had invited this old man over to our house. The man decided he had seen enough Michael Jackson on the TV and shut it off. This made me so pissed that I threw a water bottle at his head. :smilerolleyes: Then I looked him in the eyes and said “Noooo!” and just kinda growled at him. :lol: Then I ran off to the other room so I could continue watching Michael. I knew my dad would be really angry at me and be coming after me for that, but he didn't. (yeah no one stops me from watching Michael :lol

In the last dream I was trying to convince my parents the media has been lying all this time. I had a few dreams like this before, but my family never seems to ever want to believe me about the media.

 

[mjbunny]

^ Eeek. Well, I'm still here too :wheh: The crack sound reminds me of a dream from... geesh... maybe July? I can't remember. Will try to find it. I dreamt I was begging to connect with Michael and fell asleep (in the dream) then awoke (in the dream) to a huge, massively loud CRACK! sound and knew it was some kind of connecting of dimensions. Hmmm. I can't remember too much about what I dreamed... just mundane stuff about home and work, I think.

 

[amygrace]

Guyyyys! I was without computer most of yesterday so I got behind...and I was totally missing checking in here every hour :lol: ...glad to be back..and to see all the discussion going on!

Anyway, finally Michael appeared, and looked like he did in TII. I seemed to fast foward to the middle of the speech, and he had paused for a minute. That's when I did the loudest hiccup ever, like seriously I suprised myself as to how loud it was.

Haha...this made me literally LOL. :lol: Oh the silly things we dream sometimes. Hehe. Thanks for sharing.

OK so I promised you guys I would post what Barbara Kaufman said about the reasons behind suffering, and Michael's in particular:


"I don't think it's so much about Karma and working out Karma as it is that the soul comes with a purpose. Sometimes the soul comes in for the purpose of teaching others. I believe Michael's soul came to teach, I think he chose his life in order to recruit and lead. He was part of the shift and the enlightenment. I think there is more learning to come from Michael. You asked about his suffering. My understanding is that the soul plans the life prior to incarnation. Michael absolutely is/was a Bodhisattva. He came to assist humanity. His suffering was not part of HIS lesson but part of OURS. I do not believe Michael's work is finished. But more about that in the future. I am in the process of developing some new skills and working with another shaman and we will see what will be revealed."

Very interesting response! And I completely agree...to an extent. I do think that Michael was a lightworker who incarnated this lifetime with a soul primary purpouse to help the planet and the people. I think much of what happened surrounding him was indeed to teach, but I don't think all of it was. I just can't imagine ALL of his suffering lending to some lesson the public needed to learn. That would be kind of sad too ...especially since so many didn't get the message. I think some of his suffering was definitely for his own soul growth...but what do I know...lol. Thanks for sharing her response!!

Anyway all of a sudden I feel like someone is staring at me, like there is something in my room besides me. That's what I felt but I was scared stiff. I didn't roll over too look. So I shut my eyes and then I feel something on my arm, like a cold hand. My heart was racing so fast I said in my head "Michael, I know I asked for this, but im not ready im scared sh*tless" lmao im scared of everything. so then I felt whatever the cold was withdraw.

Interesting you mention this 'cause just yesterday my Mom mentioned this part she was reading in a book by James Van Praagh, which said that when spirits get around, the temperature often drops...so you will feel a sense of cold. Sorry to hear you got so nervous about the experience...aw. It's really not a scary thing, but I guess it just takes some getting used to.

And today I think.... I'm not nuts, right? I dont' give a flying you-know-what about celebrities. It's always been just Michael. Only Michael. Why? I don't know. And now so many others who aren't even fans have said they cried and cried when he died and they feel he was someone really special and they can't shake this weird feeling. My mom reported a non-fan saying, "Just WHO did we lose there????" People felt it, they feel it. That would tell me it's not just my delusion. But again... Michael, who ARE you???

So I think we're all equal in that way, and our lives here help us to get closer and closer to that potential, until we reach it. So for me it's completely natural that Michael has caused this spiritual shift that you mentioned. I think he was a powerful energy here and a lot changed when he passed. I believe he's still in touch with us, still working here, but in a different way.
So yeah, like you, I catch myself sometimes putting him on a pedestal, and I wonder if that's a good idea or not. But I think he's here to teach us, and it's natural to admire a teacher, and a soul so evolved. But yes, he had faults, and I need to remind myself of that sometimes.

I've often thought about this too...about me putting Michael up on a pedestal. I think it's certainly logical for people to think that it's like "human nature" to want to "worship" someone or some thing...but I don't think that is really the case here. It's not so much that we think he is this almighty super-human or God, it's that we have look up to him with deep admiration for all the good he did and inspired within us. We recognize that he was human just like us, but we also recognize all the good in him that just isn't found in people these days. He lived most of his life and made most of his decisions based on true love and compassion...in in turn taught us the power of that. So we are not living in delusion...we simply see a beautiful truth in this one man. I think the way we look to him is much like someone would look up to an older brother or sister; it's that they are everything we want to be. And maybe we didn't see the whole Michael, the Michael in private...but what we saw on the outside, was truly inspirational. Hmm...I probably could've gotten my thoughts on this out better but my brain is jamming up with thoughts. Buhhh. I think we all understand each other on this anyway without even needing to discuss.

Then I started thinking, maybe all these things I disagree with in the church, were put in by people, not by God.

BINGO!

I have a feeling based on my experience that spiritual world and Universe is much more complex than Christian traditional doctrine.

Bingo again. Once you step out of traditional thinking; what you've always been taught - and you decide to jump downt the rabbit hole - it's altogether surprising, enlightening, and freeing. You start to actually move up, instead of stagnate in one place - based on the collective thoughts of those around you. I'm still discovering just how far the rabbit hole goes... one thing's for sure, I will never go back in the box that was religion. (no disrespect to any religous people here, just speaking from my own opinion about religion that came from my own experience )

Then I was taking a look at the Psychic thread here. I noticed people posting whom I didn't recognize. There was one guy who wrote a message that said “How's this for a prediction? You're all dead!” And there were pictures of skulls and crossbones that represented each one of us.

Woah...:bugeyed creepy weird.

The man decided he had seen enough Michael Jackson on the TV and shut it off. This made me so pissed that I threw a water bottle at his head.

:lmao: "Take that!!"

 

[FedoraHatGirl2058]

what is this part of the forum about?

 

[FedoraHatGirl2058]

is it about dreams that are related to Michael??

 

[amygrace]

Oh and while were on the topic of religion, I wanted to reiterate what I've said before about everything just being choices. I think that ultimately, we create our own reality, however we decide to live or think. So even when you die, you can choose to live by that way of thinking just as you did on Earth. It's funny too, just yesterday I was talking with my Mom about this book she's reading by James Van Praagh, and he mentioned how he was doing a reading once for this guy...what's his name...he was the one who played the oldest brother on the Cosby Show...Malcom-Jamal, that's his name. Anyway, during the reading, this woman showed up and started yelling at James telling him that what he was doing was wrong, that it was the devil's work. James was like "well then why did you show up?" and she responded with something like "because I love him and this kind of thing needs to stop...you are attracting evil". And so James says "well are you evil?" ...anyway, ends up that this woman was Malcom-Jamal's old aunt that had died years ago...and he remembered she was a very religious woman. After James was able to talk with her more, he was able to open her up to seeing that what was happening wasn't really evil. But that just goes to show, even after you die, you adopt your same beliefs. You create your own reality...just as you did here. I've been reading some other books that talk about this kind of thing...how on the astral plane, there are groups of people that gather together with those that adopt the same beliefs... and that if some people believe that when they die they will see pearly gates in the clouds, then that is what they will experience.... as your thoughts can create and mold energies around you. Very interesting stuff.

 

[amygrace]

is it about dreams that are related to Michael??

It started out talking about psychics and channelings...like this one woman that channeled Michael months ago. Now it's kind of turned into the all-spiritual thread...to just talk about spiritual dreams, ideas and experiences...particularly in relation with Michael, but not always.

 

[mjbunny]

is it about dreams that are related to Michael??

It can be, however there's an entire thread devoted just to dreams about Michael if you have any to share http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51171&page=41 Here we also talk about personal spiritual experiences and dreams we feel may be 'more than just dreams', etc

 

[FedoraHatGirl2058]

Well nothing real important happened to me

about 2 month ago i was listening the song Heartbreaker of the Invincible album which is one of my favs of Invincible, anyway i like to sit down sometimes at evening and turn off the lights just to HEAR music, so i was there and with the remote i was just hearing the song but i felt the sound was not loud enough and decided to put it higher, i took the remote and changed the volume from 13 to17 and about 30 seconds after i would say, it went to 14 alone i didnt touch ia thing, i was like nothing important so i put it again to 17, but this time it went dramatically fast, like automatically at 14, so i put it again at 17 and the thing happened again and again real fast, like about 5 times, i was kinda idk, i thought it was weird, real weird, but then i started to think it was something that might have happened cause of some kind of electrodomestic thing making some kind of interruption. Then i put the same song did the same thing at the same volume and nothing happened never again, hahaha i think it was just something that happened nothing out of this world.

cause if you think about it what does it mean, i thought what would this mean, is this something related to Michael why THAT song??? why those numbers, why never again? so i said, it just happened.

 

[Asedora]

And it's made me wonder, bringing up religion now... did people really see Jesus? I mean like in person, the real guy, just standing there?

Oh, there are many historical evidences that Jesus was a real person and I believe that he looked pretty much the same like other ppl in this region at that time. There is a computer generated picture from Turin Shroud if you wish to take a look. He looks pretty much the same as we used to see him in icons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Jkw9b8AJY&feature=fvw
The thing is that Gospel was written by man much later,70 years after Jesus death. I believe that many things were added and many things left aside because they were not convenient to the official Church institute.
The wisdom of Michel’s “teaching” if we can say so, was him dealing with kids. It is very true that kids have pure souls and they are innocent. Michael needed kids around him because they helped him to stay on this level of innocence. Putting himself on that level of he could create good song and not only that. He even says about it in Bashir’s interview if you remember. I completely understand the meaning and the reason of him being around kids.

Bingo again. Once you step out of traditional thinking; what you've always been taught - and you decide to jump downt the rabbit hole - it's altogether surprising, enlightening, and freeing. You start to actually move up, instead of stagnate in one place - based on the collective thoughts of those around you. I'm still discovering just how far the rabbit hole goes... one thing's for sure, I will never go back in the box that was religion. (no disrespect to any religous people here, just speaking from my own opinion about religion that came from my own experience )

The "rabbit hole" is good definition for religious doctrine. It is good on a way to discipline ppl to teach them not to kill and not to steal. Christianity is a good on a way to give a basic knowledge as a fundament imo.
But all those scary stories about hell, many sins for many reasons drive me crazy. The Church used to teach before that non Christians will go hell which I do not agree with. I have a strong feeling that things look very different compared to what they teach.. God created human as a free soul free to choose the own way. I think we are here to build our souls choosing the best way as possible to do it. The best means not the easiest one. And it is very true when we step out of a traditional doctrine, the world looks much better

 

[FedoraHatGirl2058]

It started out talking about psychics and channelings...like this one woman that channeled Michael months ago. Now it's kind of turned into the all-spiritual thread...to just talk about spiritual dreams, ideas and experiences...particularly in relation with Michael, but not always.

It can be, however there's an entire thread devoted just to dreams about Michael if you have any to share http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51171&page=41 Here we also talk about personal spiritual experiences and dreams we feel may be 'more than just dreams', etc

OH i understand now, thank you both :flowers:

 

[mjbunny]

Oh, there are many historical evidences that Jesus was a real person and I believe that he looked pretty much the same like other ppl in this region at that time. There is a computer generated picture from Turin Shroud if you wish to take a look. He looks pretty much the same as we used to see him in icons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Jkw9b8AJY&feature=fvw

Sorry, maybe I didn't clarify... I meant did they really see him after he died, when it was reported he'd appeared to several people. We'll never know in this lifetime of course, if visitations by Jesus (or other prophets or historical figures) were something beyond the ordinary or if it was the same type of phenomena that happens to average people all the time, when loved ones make contact from the other side via an appearance, a dream, a touch, a sound, etc. Religious texts build up this type of thing to immense proportions, but perhaps this type of amazing thing happens all the time...

 

[Neeve]

:cheeky: Ah, I love this thread. People would believe we're just hanging out talking about MJ. A-hee-hee!

I grew up going to church and even wanted to be a minister when I was younger ... before I started thinking, "Hey, wait a minute... !" I've also done a lot of research over the years. In fact, religion fascinates me in general, even though I feel I could never truly be a part of any particular one. Yes, I've also read that reincarnation as well as other later 'banned' beliefs were very much part of early Christianity. It's a sad fact that many crave power and power corrupts. Things are written and declared and banned and murdered for... so that power structures can be created or stay in place. It's the same with political systems... any belief system that people accept and allow to 'rule' their land. Think of all the checks and balances we have in democracies, all attempting to keep the darker parts of the human being from subjugating the masses for their own greed and ego. In the old days of theocracy and monarchy, the church and/or the king had absolute power and so they were free to alter or destroy text where they saw fit, as it served their purpose. Over the centuries history is therefore rewritten by these victors... and it's up to us to realize that we may not be getting the full story. In any case, to avoid going on and on for pages, lol, I believe that no religion is all right or all wrong. It's like each belief system is one piece of a huge puzzle. One piece of the puzzle is still real, still valid ... but it's certainly not the whole picture. Only when we all come to realize this and accept that our little odd-shaped puzzle piece isn't THE ONE AND ONLY and is instead just one little piece of the story of God, we'll finally begin to work toward real understanding. Well, that's my two cents worth anyway.

Barbara Kaufman writes the InnerMichael blog And what you said here... about visitations from dead relatives, etc... wow, I've thought of this soooo often since last summer. I've had so many experiences I believe were with/from Michael and soooooooo many others have as well. And it's made me wonder, bringing up religion now... did people really see Jesus? I mean like in person, the real guy, just standing there? In the Bible it's reported Jesus had a divine countenance about him, that he looked different... like people report those who've passed on do... like beautifully in their prime. Is this really different from the experiences of people these days? I've never seen a full figure of someone who's passed (not for lack of trying or wishing for it), but some people have! And people "saw" other prophets and historical figures as well. Or received messages from them, had dreams of them that were taken as something real and special. Were these experiences of less educated, non-scientifically-thinking people 2,000 years ago any more vivid or real than what happens to us? Maybe a bit more because they were more inclined to believe, but don't you suppose they were the same types of things that happen to all of us now? We were always brought up to believe that these religious things in past socieites were REAL, like in a miraculous way that doesn't usually occur. Or were they just as REAL as when we've felt/heard/dreamed of Michael... or our grandparents or anyone from the other side? Imagine just for a moment, as something silly just for example, that a thousand years from now there was an MJ religion. Think of our tales, the tales of those who lived in his time (lol, if Jesus had 12 disciples in his small corner of the world with a tiny world population and no mass media, Michael gets how many? 12,000? 1.2 million? 12 million?). Anyway, we fans have reported that we "saw" him, he "visited" us after death, told us things in dreams, we heard his voice, on and on. When you look at it that way... how different is this really to stories from centuries ago? Only different by faith, I think. I mean the faith that specific figures were either highly advanced and therefore more powerful or were incarnations of God and something beyond you or I. Then you can believe that Jesus showing up on your path was like... WHOA... way beyond anything that could ever happen to you short of the Second Coming. But maybe it was no different than when I saw a hand wave to me the night before my grandpa died... or all the beautiful and cherished moments I've had with Michael (thank you, Michael :heart :angel:

I know, this thread is deep!!

Yes, I guess humans are flawed, and anything run by humans is essentially flawed....

Wow, that's a cool thing to think about. In many ways, I think we would be experiencing similar things to anyone in ancient times... I think the universe is essentially the same, so those who have passed on probably communicate in the same way. That's really interesting! I need to think about that idea more... I like it

Very interesting response! And I completely agree...to an extent. I do think that Michael was a lightworker who incarnated this lifetime with a soul primary purpouse to help the planet and the people. I think much of what happened surrounding him was indeed to teach, but I don't think all of it was. I just can't imagine ALL of his suffering lending to some lesson the public needed to learn. That would be kind of sad too ...especially since so many didn't get the message. I think some of his suffering was definitely for his own soul growth...but what do I know...lol. Thanks for sharing her response!!

I've often thought about this too...about me putting Michael up on a pedestal. I think it's certainly logical for people to think that it's like "human nature" to want to "worship" someone or some thing...but I don't think that is really the case here. It's not so much that we think he is this almighty super-human or God, it's that we have look up to him with deep admiration for all the good he did and inspired within us. We recognize that he was human just like us, but we also recognize all the good in him that just isn't found in people these days. He lived most of his life and made most of his decisions based on true love and compassion...in in turn taught us the power of that. So we are not living in delusion...we simply see a beautiful truth in this one man. I think the way we look to him is much like someone would look up to an older brother or sister; it's that they are everything we want to be. And maybe we didn't see the whole Michael, the Michael in private...but what we saw on the outside, was truly inspirational. Hmm...I probably could've gotten my thoughts on this out better but my brain is jamming up with thoughts. Buhhh. I think we all understand each other on this anyway without even needing to discuss.


BINGO!

Bingo, right! it only took me 24 years on this earth to figure that out, haha! It seems so obvious now......

Yes I think you make a good point....even though he came to teach us, he probably didn't need to go through all the extreme pain he suffered....no one should have to. I guess people just misunderstood him, used him...as he said himself: "it's human nature"..... I don't get it sometimes.

Oh and while were on the topic of religion, I wanted to reiterate what I've said before about everything just being choices. I think that ultimately, we create our own reality, however we decide to live or think. So even when you die, you can choose to live by that way of thinking just as you did on Earth. It's funny too, just yesterday I was talking with my Mom about this book she's reading by James Van Praagh, and he mentioned how he was doing a reading once for this guy...what's his name...he was the one who played the oldest brother on the Cosby Show...Malcom-Jamal, that's his name. Anyway, during the reading, this woman showed up and started yelling at James telling him that what he was doing was wrong, that it was the devil's work. James was like "well then why did you show up?" and she responded with something like "because I love him and this kind of thing needs to stop...you are attracting evil". And so James says "well are you evil?" ...anyway, ends up that this woman was Malcom-Jamal's old aunt that had died years ago...and he remembered she was a very religious woman. After James was able to talk with her more, he was able to open her up to seeing that what was happening wasn't really evil. But that just goes to show, even after you die, you adopt your same beliefs. You create your own reality...just as you did here. I've been reading some other books that talk about this kind of thing...how on the astral plane, there are groups of people that gather together with those that adopt the same beliefs... and that if some people believe that when they die they will see pearly gates in the clouds, then that is what they will experience.... as your thoughts can create and mold energies around you. Very interesting stuff.

yes, definitely! I used to think that once you passed on, you get all the answers and you realise the error of your ways, but I think, in the astral plane at least, that's not the case. I guess that's why we have to come back?


btw, totally OT but can someone please explain to me how to quote someone's post, but be able to split it up. Like if I want to respond to the first part, and then the next part....I can't figure it out :doh:

 

[mjbunny]

^ You have to do that manually using the quote tags in brackets for each part you're quoting:

(QUOTE) blah blah blah (/QUOTE)

(QUOTE) blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah(/QUOTE)

(QUOTE) blah blah blah (/QUOTE)

You need to use brackets [ ] of course, not the parentheses ... had to use those to show you. You just have to always begin with the QUOTE tag (in brackets) and end with the /QUOTE tag (in brackets with a slash before the word 'quote')

 

[Asedora]

Sorry, maybe I didn't clarify... I meant did they really see him after he died, when it was reported he'd appeared to several people. We'll never know in this lifetime of course, if visitations by Jesus (or other prophets or historical figures) were something beyond the ordinary or if it was the same type of phenomena that happens to average people all the time, when loved ones make contact from the other side via an appearance, a dream, a touch, a sound, etc. Religious texts build up this type of thing to immense proportions, but perhaps this type of amazing thing happens all the time...

The Church says that Jesus was taken to Heaven with physical body because his body became sort of "holy body", the same was with Virgin Mary. I do not know but it seems to me a very strong connection with a physical world in this teaching imo, but who knows. Jesus appeared being alive to Maria Magdalena, but she did not recognize him from the beginning. Remember? The question is why she did not recognize him if she knew how he looked like? There is a blurry exploration about it but there is no real answer.

 

[amygrace]

yes, definitely! I used to think that once you passed on, you get all the answers and you realise the error of your ways, but I think, in the astral plane at least, that's not the case. I guess that's why we have to come back?

Hehe I used to think that way too. We'd get on the other side and go "ooh yeah! now i remember!" :lol: - the book we've been talking about "The Beginner's Guide for the Recently Deceased" goes into this...particularly the later chapters. I just got done reading the whole book yesterday... so good. But anyway, I loved how in the final chapters, he talks about how we have our first death; which is physical - then our astral plane death, and then our last 'death' that takes us back down to Earth for our next incarnation. He used a ferris wheel as an analogy for it all...it was very interesting.

 

[mjbunny]

sAnyone going to read the new InnerMichael post, http://innermichael.blogspot.com/2010/02/suffering-is-one-of-those-common.html, ummm... you might want to skip over the part about Vlad Dracula unless you want those images to torture your mind. OMG. I feel like I just watched the last 30 minutes of Hannibal or something uke: But the rest of the post is great.

The Church says that Jesus was taken to Heaven with physical body because his body became sort of "holy body", the same was with Virgin Mary. I do not know but it seems to me a very strong connection with a physical world in this teaching imo, but who knows. Jesus appeared being alive to Maria Magdalena, but she did not recognize him from the beginning. Remember? The question is why she did not recognize him if she knew how he looked like? There is a blurry exploration about it but there is no real answer.

And that's where it goes into the resurrection... if you believe it, then it was his physical body made holy and ascending (and therefore not the same type of visitation that we get from relatives and loved ones who pass). If one believes it to be symbolic or metaphoric (not an actual physical occurance) then it likely is the same type of thing that happens to us when we see someone. Yeah, and the part about Mary M not recognizing him. That's odd, right? (One of at least 10,000 odd things in the Bible, I guess... ) If one says they don't believe it was physical resurrection, then I guess they'd be doomed to hell in the eyes of most Christians, since that's a fundamental part of the crede. If only we had a time machine... first fixing a few things for Michael and then... back to check out Jesus. Problem is, I wouldn't understand the language and would probably manage to freak someone out or piss someone off as soon as I arrived and get stoned to death as an insubordinate witch :smilerolleyes: So not the safest idea.

 

[Asedora]

You create your own reality...just as you did here. I've been reading some other books that talk about this kind of thing...how on the astral plane, there are groups of people that gather together with those that adopt the same beliefs... and that if some people believe that when they die they will see pearly gates in the clouds, then that is what they will experience.... as your thoughts can create and mold energies around you. Very interesting stuff.

It does make a perfect sense to me but I have a feeling that thare are still some limits and rules in astral plan. I cannot say anything more than that becuse I simply do know.I just feel that "similar goes to similar" is sort of rule probably spirits deal with after physical death. Universe is a very complicated “computer” with many levels and damnations imo.It like metrix sort of. (?)

 

[amygrace]

It does make a perfect sense to me but I have a feeling that thare are still some limits and rules in astral plan. I cannot say anything more than that becuse I simply do know.I just feel that "similar goes to similar" is sort of rule probably spirits deal with after physical death. Universe is a very complicated “computer” with many levels and damnations imo.It like metrix sort of. (?)

True, I think there is a lot more to things than what I think to be true in my mind, or what I think I 'know' to be true. I certainly don't think there are "damnations" though. I think that there are simply actions and reactions. Cause and effect. There's a push/pull to everything...that plays out in our lifetimes, as "karma". I think that the only "punishing" we get is from ourselves...whether through our thinking, or whether through doing harm to another that ensures later we will suffer the same done to us. "You get what you give" - I think a big part our growth reaches it's end when we realize and act from that truth. That we are all the same, and that what we do to someone else we do to ourselves.