Madonna sets trends?

[Travis]

I dont care about people liking Madonna . What i cant stand is people making comparisons and saying bullshit like " Madonna in the top ...michael not " like you did with your stupid article .

I have no problem with other artists music or career as long as they respect the other artists not like Madonna .

But if you want to believe that about me ..thats your problem . But as long as in a MJ forum some people will disrespect michael against other artists , you will see my mouth believe me .

Let's get real for a second. As much as I love Michael, he isn't in good standings but that of course can all change with the next album [and especially if he'd ever tour]. Again, it's not like the article lied and it was about their lives in contrast at age 50. I thought it was an interesting read and perfectly relevant for fans of both parties [like myself]. People need to stop being so damn sensitive and learn that people CAN and will talk about Michael Jackson and even compare him to other artists. I'd understand if what was said was indeed dishonest or nasty in tone. Michael Jackson is not Jesus Christ. He's not indestructable. If anything, 2005 proved that. Even his fans have trouble letting him be human.

 

[arXter]

I dont care about people liking Madonna . What i cant stand is people making comparisons and saying bullshit like " Madonna in the top ...michael not " like you did with your stupid article.

s_w, your conspiracy theories on posters in this board are becoming embarrassing. the least you can do for Mike is show some respect to others here - Jona is a fan of both Michael and Madonna, stop bringing this "you only post about Madonna/Janet therefore you're an MJ hater" nonsense.

if you think that somehow makes you a better fan, then you're wrong mate.

maybe this thread will refresh your memory:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50395

That was a nasty thinhg to say about Michael. Funny some people in the media now say the same thing about Madonna, with her botox face and masculine arms and legs.

 

[serena williams]

Let's get real for a second. As much as I love Michael, he isn't in good standings but that of course can all change with the next album [and especially if he'd ever tour]. Again, it's not like the article lied and it was about their lives in contrast at age 50. I thought it was an interesting read and perfectly relevant for fans of both parties [like myself]. People need to stop being so damn sensitive and learn that people CAN and will talk about Michael Jackson and even compare him to other artists. I'd understand if what was said was indeed dishonest or nasty in tone. Michael Jackson is not Jesus Christ. He's not indestructable. If anything, 2005 proved that. Even his fans have trouble letting him be human.

Why do they talk about somebody who is inactive for 7 years ... i thought he was an Has been that nobody care anymore , so why they talk about him ???

I realy wonder what is so relevant in this article , because i dont see nothing relevant and to me this article is total lie .

Oh yes i see what is relevant and interesting for you ... the fact that they said Madonna is better than MJ or the greatest of the 2 isnt it ???

 

[Superstition]

Or maybe the poster just liked the things said about Madonna and didn't pay any attention to the MJ stuff one way or the other?

 

[Travis]

Why do they talk about somebody who is inactive for 7 years

The article isn't about whom is better of the two [that's opinion]. Also, why can't they talk about someone who has been inactive for 7 years? I shared an article. It's really not a big deal. You're the one doing the comparison and who obviously has a problem.

 

[arXter]

aiya, aiya, i against i.

 

[Superstition]

What article is she referring to? I'd like to read it. I saw the quotes you posted and the long article you posted, but I didn't see anything about MJ other than them mentioning Madonna going through the door MJ opened with Thriller (which is actually a compliment).

 

[serena williams]

The article isn't about whom is better of the two [that's opinion]. Also, why can't they talk about someone who has been inactive for 7 years? I shared an article. It's really not a big deal. You're the one doing the comparison and who obviously has a problem.

I am not the one doing the comparisons but YOU are , and YES i have problems with that .

I wouldnt be in this topic without your stupid yahoo article .

 

[Travis]

I am not the one doing the comparisons but YOU are , and YES i have problems with that .

I wouldnt be in this topic without your stupid yahoo article .

Again, the article didn't say anything inaccurate so I am not sure why you are so upset by it and it wasn't malicious in content. It's actually rather balanced. Example: "One could argue that as a musician, a dancer and an entertainer, Michael Jackson has it all over Madonna by a factor of 10," Thompson said. See? I don't like the reality of the situation or everything the article has to say but I figure we are all adults and can take it like such. I didn't post it to ruffle any feathers. I thought people might be interested since it pertains to both Michael and Madonna. It was relevant. You're overreacting.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080813/en_afp/entertainmentusmusicjacksonmadonna

 

[DuranDuran]

You know exactly what I mean !!!

Yes there is such is thing as masculine arms. And there is a difference between women looking athletic and masculine. Some people in the media think Madonna has gone too far with her fitness training. I'm pointing this out in reaction to a very old comment Madonna made about Michael looking like a space alien drag queen, because some people in the media now hold that view of Madonna and they have said she looks masculine.

Why would we have any interest in knowing you like women with an athletic look. This thread is not a debate our personal tastes in women.

No there isn't. You're implying muscular women are "masculine", whatever that means. That's a myth. I follow women's fitness and natural bodybuilding, so don't appreciate the "she-male" jokes. Muscle has no gender. By your logic (and the general public), if a guy isn't muscular, then he must be "feminine".

 

[serena williams]

Again, the article didn't say anything inaccurate so I am not sure why you are so upset by it and it wasn't malicious in content. It's actually rather balanced. Example: "One could argue that as a musician, a dancer and an entertainer, Michael Jackson has it all over Madonna by a factor of 10," Thompson said. See? I don't like the reality of the situation or everything the article has to say but I figure we are all adults and can take it like such. I didn't post it to ruffle any feathers. I thought people might be interested since it pertains to both Michael and Madonna. It was relevant. You're overreacting.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080813/en_afp/entertainmentusmusicjacksonmadonna

Oh please stop with your "adult" thing !!

EDIT : jut i dont see nothnig good in this article for michael .

 

[litia]

OMFG I think this thread will get close soon

TBH I dont see any big deal with that article Jona linked h34r: SOme not very "pleasant" comments but they acknowledged his talent :yes: :yes:. As for her speech at the HOF, I dont see anything nasty either. Wasnt that her way of saying he was the best and she wanted to be like him? :huh:

 

[Travis]

OMFG I think this thread will get close soon

TBH I dont see any big deal with that article Jona linked h34r: SOme not very "pleasant" comments but they acknowledged his talent :yes: :yes:. As for her speech at the HOF, I dont see anything nasty either. Wasnt that her way of saying he was the best and she wanted to be like him? :huh:

It was. Everything is being taken out of context in order to vilify Madonna. What some complain about is when Madonna tried to imitate Michael's voice. She never said anything degrading towards him or disrespectful. If anything, she gave him major props.

 

[troubleman84]

Some people would rather start sh*t than see things in a perspective. No one would be satisfied until everyone agrees that Michael is the ultimate ruler of the universe or some sh*t and mad because some "floozy from Michigan" is still here after nearly 30 years in the business. :doh:

 

[troubleman84]

Anyway to answer the original question, yeah I do think in a way Madonna set a trend. After the success of disco in the late-seventies, she was able to use dance music to bring herself to the top. That took guts because dance music was supposed to have been ratted out of the mainstream by 1983 so the fact that she did the music the way she did and looked the way she did, it obviously had SOME effect. She's a great hustler too. :yes:

 

[benscarr]

It was. Everything is being taken out of context in order to vilify Madonna. What some complain about is when Madonna tried to imitate Michael's voice. She never said anything degrading towards him or disrespectful. If anything, she gave him major props.

Nothing has been taken out of context about th nasty comments Madonna has made about Michael. She imitated Michael's voice to disrespect him. It's quite a deluded thing to say she gave Michael major props, Madonna's Rock"N"Roll Hall of Fame induction shows it's she wanted to make herself seem more important than Michael by making up a stupid lie.

No there isn't. You're implying muscular women are "masculine", whatever that means. That's a myth. I follow women's fitness and natural bodybuilding, so don't appreciate the "she-male" jokes. Muscle has no gender. By your logic (and the general public), if a guy isn't muscular, then he must be "feminine".

First of all I completely disagree with you. And yes I am implying musicular women "look" masculine. Also who's making She-Male jokes, because it's not me. I have said I don't like athletic looking women, that's not what appeals to me. You are trying to impose your tastes on me. "If a guy isn't muscular then he must be feminine", well you said that not me. For the record I don't like any kind of muscular look. There are differences in both how male and females look when they are both slim etc, a slim man will obviously look more masculine than a women. You feel you can tell me what my logic is (when you haven't a clue what it is), and how I see things. People can do what the hell they want, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of things that don't appeal to me. What's right for one person isn't always right for another.

And I don't appreciate you going out of your way to start an argument, by taking my comments about Madonna's muscles to completely different subject that has nothing to do with this thread.

If you continue to wrongly accuse me of making she-male jokes etc, and tell me what my "logic" is I will report you, and go out of my way to make sure this thread is CLOSED !!! ..... which I don't want to do as I think this thread has been held in a polite and passionate way and stuck to the subject. Don't spoil it by imposing your getting personal and insulting comment towards me as I haven't questioned or mocked your personal tastes, and my posts show that. You have no choice but to agree to disagree, and stop getting personal.

Some people would rather start sh*t than see things in a perspective. No one would be satisfied until everyone agrees that Michael is the ultimate ruler of the universe or some sh*t and mad because some "floozy from Michigan" is still here after nearly 30 years in the business. :doh:

People are seeing things in perspective. And Madonna still being at the forefront of pop music after 25yrs which is amazing, isn't what this thread is about. The question is does Madonna set trends ?, ie is she a musical innovator. And the answer is NO !

 

[DuranDuran]

And I don't appreciate you going out of your way to start an argument, by taking my comments about Madonna's muscles to completely different subject that has nothing to do with this thread.

I don't argue with people, as that's negative. When have you seen me arguing with someone in the threads? There's plenty of arguing in a lot of threads, including this one, and I don't get involved in them. I was just making a comment about the statement you put up that appears that Madonna is getting her karma for her old "space alien drag queen" quote. The general public tends to be negative about muscular women like Madonna and Serena Williams, saying they're manly and working out too much, that's all.

 

[benscarr]

I don't argue with people, as that's negative. When have you seen me arguing with someone in the threads? There's plenty of arguing in a lot of threads, including this one, and I don't get involved in them. I was just making a comment about the statement you put up that appears that Madonna is getting her karma for her old "space alien drag queen" quote. The general public tends to be negative about muscular women like Madonna and Serena Williams, saying they're manly and working out too much, that's all.

You have a right to your views and preferences. I haven't questioned your preferences where a you made a sweeping statement about my logic.

Once again my comment about Madonna was in reaction to an old comment Jona pointed out. I do find is funny that now some people in the media more a less say the same thing about Madonna now. I wouldn't have minded if your previous post were as constructive as your most recent post, where you have stated there is a negative attitude towards muscular women. That's the type of comment in reaction to mine that I can respect, even though I have a different point of view. As people have the right to look how they want, which is something I'm sure we both agree on.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

No offence to anyone but this thread is just pathetic!

Everyone has their own opinion so just get over it!!

I have good things and bad things to say about Madonna but i'm keeping them to myself...

And why does every Madonna thread turn into a Madonna VS. Michael thread?!? You know it's mostly opinions right??

P.S. I think everyone should stop attacking Jona...anything she says is her opinion...be a lil more open minded..would you?!?

 

[Bee.]

The only thing I've ever heard Madonna say about MJ back in the day was something to the effect of "he looks like a space alien drag queen". That was a looooooooooong time ago and Madonna has grown up since then. As for her speech at her induction I really don't see the harm in anything she said. I think people are just nitpicking and being too hypersensitive as usual. It was all very tame and no harm was done. Let's not forget that during the American Life period [a dark time for MJ] she defended him in an interview and said that Bashir would get what he deserved in the end

I had an issue with that drag queen comment she said about Mike but I am over it. She said that at that time because she made sure that the comment would get into the papers. She mocked MJ when she was being inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame. A lot of people are still trying to understand how she can be inducted period. Patti LaBelle and Quincy Jones haven't been inducted (that I know of) yet. However, Madge gets to be inducted. WTF did she do in her career to be inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame? Instead of mocking Mike during her distasteful speech, she should have asked herself that question. Yeah, she "defended" Michael when MJ was being trashed after the Bashir mess but that was the only defense that she did. Blah.

It will never be accepted. It will be discredited in someway, somehow. I am being asked to answer this, provide that but in reality you don't give a rats ass what the answer is or really what I have to say at all. You're all too busy preparing the next rebuttal. All geared up to shoot down the possibility of Madonna having any actual artistic integrity and those who think that clearly have never listened to her albums in entirety. I'M so DONE. I grew up with Madonna, love and respect her, and think she's a tremendous artist.

Reality check: you are in a MJ fan board and you have to expect comments like you read coming from MJ fans. I thought you were one, btw. Anyway, if you can't handle the heat, I feel bad for you. You are asked certain questions and you could not provide answers. You are probably Madge's biggest fan on this board. I would assume that you would know what actual artistic imput or impact she has made in the world of MUSIC, not the world of the music BUSINESS. You couldn't provide anything regarding that question. You were asked what kind of scandals that she went through, and you couldn't provide any scandals but did say that she was banned from the church which, imo, she deserved to be banned. So, you "leaving" this thread just shows that you can't handle the heat. You make your points and you cannot back it up. You grew up with Madge, really? Like did you went to school with her and lived in her neighborhood or did you grew up with her meaning her music? I am confused there.

 

[Bee.]

Very true
Thats why I don't understand how when you get into a music conversation about Madonna to someone and you say something that they don't agree with, they think that your judging her as person when its JUST solely the music. Your a "hater" your "hating". Those are peoples favorite lines and it gets on my damn nerves because its beyond immature. This is not just with folks that favor Madonna. Its really with any fan that favor any artist. I don't know why some fans can't be open minded and be a little more factual on their music history.

Blah. I stated what I had to state. She made sure the media kiss her rear and made sure that the media will not try to destroy her career like they try to do with MJ and Whitney. To make it clear - I am open minded and if I do not want to be factural regarding Madge on this thread, then I do not need to. I really do not care what she does as an artist anyway. She is just a chick that got lucky. That is all. I am not a hater or a fan of Madge. She recieved props from me but that is about it. Don't get testy with me because I told you off over at the thread regarding what Ne-Yo did not say about Michael. It is not my issue if you read the comment wrong and is so quick to judge. Don't try to test me on an Madge thread because of the fact that you didn't like my comments on another thread.

Stop with the stupid and get back on track or don't say anything at all. Move on.

Didn't you say that you were done with this thread? LOL.

 

[Superstition]

To make it clear - I am open minded and if I do not want to be factural regarding Madge on this thread, then I do not need to. I really do not care what she does as an artist anyway. She is just a chick that got lucky.

Well, the first sentence certainly helps to justify the second. Seriously, I don't see how someone gets lucky for 25 years.

I'm by far not a fan of Madonna's either: I can name all of two or three songs of hers and really don't care about her one way or the other, but people just don't stay relevant for 25 years without talent. It takes more than luck to do that.

I also find it odd you say it's odd that she has a good relationship with the media.. as if she should be penalized for not being ripped to shreds in the tabloids.

 

[mjscarousal]

Blah. I stated what I had to state. She made sure the media kiss her rear and made sure that the media will not try to destroy her career like they try to do with MJ and Whitney. To make it clear - I am open minded and if I do not want to be factural regarding Madge on this thread, then I do not need to. I really do not care what she does as an artist anyway. She is just a chick that got lucky. That is all. I am not a hater or a fan of Madge. She recieved props from me but that is about it. Don't get testy with me because I told you off over at the thread regarding what Ne-Yo did not say about Michael. It is not my issue if you read the comment wrong and is so quick to judge. Don't try to test me on an Madge thread because of the fact that you didn't like my comments on another thread.

I never replied to you with anything IN THIS THREAD so what the f%@# is your problem?

I frankly don't give a damn about how you feel about Madonna because I never replied to you with anything. I was replying to another MJ fan about the MADONNA THREAD not to YOU. YOU took it personal as if I was TALKING TO YOU when in reality I was making a general statement regarding SOME MJ fans, I was talking to another MJ fan at that. I was not talking to YOU or ABOUT YOU. I NEVER replied to you. Trust me, if I wanted to call you out on something or If I disagreed with anything you said I WOULD HAVE REPLIED TO YOU.

What the hell does the Neyo thread have to do with this thread? AND who the hell are you tell me I'm testy? tha f@%#? you don't know a damn thing about me and ONCE again your starting bullshit for no apparent reason. I didn't even reply to you with anything in this thread. This time around YOU misread the comments, you need to take a look at the man in the mirror and stop correcting other people on their ish when you got issues yourself. Hell I do... we ALL do.

And speaking on the Neyo thread, since YOU did BRING IT UP, you didn't tell me off on anything. Don't get that ish twisted because if the (public freak) misread comment wasn't that BIG of deal, you wouldn't of acted so immaturely and continued to talk about it LIKE IT WAS WHEN IT WASN'T and you would have stayed discussing on the original topic.


Below is the original comment that I REPLIED to, which was "Supersitions" remarks regarding what YOU had said. I agreed with HIM, I REPLIED to him and once again if I wanted to say something to you I would have REPLIED to you BUT I didn't so I don't understand what the hell your issue is because their is NO issue once again.

That's because most, if not all, of Madonna's scandals have related to her artistic endeavors and not stuff that has gone on in her personal life. I don't see how she "kisses media's rear", and I don't see what the harm is if she does.

 

[Mechi]

I also think that if any artist was to copy someone's entire career. Then Madonna is the one to choose. She's had longevity, tried her hand at many different types of music. Still having number ones after 25 years. Still doing exciting new concerts.etc...etc

I do agree with this. :yes:

However that itself never really got a trend... there's hardly someone as successfull as a solo artist following her it seems.
That speaks for her being at least a pretty strong personality aside from maybe being not too much talented music wise compared to others. She's an icon of the industry.
I'm not sure I want to see her still doing 'like a virgin' on stage as a 70 year old but I could imagine she'll still be there... I'm wondering who and what will follow.

Maybe music business it's a little bit too much killing itself in getting too many short-time stars out there.

 

[serena williams]

s_w, your conspiracy theories on posters in this board are becoming embarrassing. the least you can do for Mike is show some respect to others here - Jona is a fan of both Michael and Madonna, stop bringing this "you only post about Madonna/Janet therefore you're an MJ hater" nonsense.

if you think that somehow makes you a better fan, then you're wrong mate.

maybe this thread will refresh your memory:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50395

What i cant stand is the constant comparisons "the Madonna on top ...and michael no " if you think i will shut my mouth up regarding such stupid and false statements , keep on dreaming !!

Moreover , why the hell should i show respec to artists who were insulting michael ??? .

I repeat , Madonna sets NO trends , she is talentless , she has NO voice , NO dance talent NOTHING only her white skin and her lack of respect for other artists , so i DONT RESPECT her .

Nothing will change my mind for that OK ?? not because you remind me the janet thread would change something , ...there are artists that i like and artists that i dont like,Janet and Madonna belong to them , just a normal thing .
I post very regularly on the MJ-section and also in the NO-mj section particularly in the thread of artists i dont like at all because i have something to say about them , i dont see nothing bad in it its a discussion board and if you cant stand that ,i feel bad for you .

I am hater ? well think what you want , i know myself what i am you are not in my mind and you dont know me.

I have already explained why i dont respect her and why i am so pissed (particularly because of the comparisons ) but if you dont want to understand call me a hater thats your problem , but keep in mind that if you provok me you will see my mouth .

 

[Superstition]

He didn't call you a hater because of your dislike of Madonna...

In fact, he didn't call you a hater at all...

 

[benscarr]

I repeat , Madonna sets NO trends , she is talentless , she has NO voice , NO dance talent NOTHING only her white skin and her lack of respect for other artists , so i DONT RESPECT her.

I agree with a lot of things you've said about Madonna and your right in that she hasn't set any trends in music, and she does have a lack of respect for other artists. But a) I wouldn't say Madonna is talentless, she's a great dancer and a good vocalist. She's just not a genius of a talent that's all. b) I resent Madonna being white as something to use against her. She may not be an amazing talent, and I most likely dislike Madonna the person and her music as much as you do. But she has made music a lot of people all over the world love regardless of her not being a complete creative musician/artist. She has had a huge impact on how women can project themselves in music that's influenced black as well as white female stars, even if she's only an indirect influence on some black female stars. Dislike Madonna for being who she is as a person or recording artist, not for her being white (I'm not saying your racist, as I know your talking about the media angle of putting white success above black). Because even though there are forms of subtle racism used by the mainstream media against Michael, as they hate the fact the biggest and most talented pop star of all. time is black. Madonna being white isn't a good criticism to use against Madonna's success. Because why is the bland Beyonce such a huge success, and praised mainstream media. Because I find Beyonce even more overrated than Madonna with her whole sale rip off of Tina Turner's image and stage act.

I also presume like Michael, Madonna would be one of the least racist people you could ever meet which is another reason not to use her race against her.

Well, the first sentence certainly helps to justify the second. Seriously, I don't see how someone gets lucky for 25 years.

people just don't stay relevant for 25 years without talent. It takes more than luck to do that.

Madonna is still a success 25yrs later because of calculation and knowing about getting the right sound.

Calculation in music or any career is a talent it's self, and I'm not saying that in criticism to Madonna but in respect for her amazing success which she's worked hard for. She knows the sounds the public want to hear, where as some artists become self indulgent or stale she's always pushing herself which has to be admired. But Madonna is not a success 25yrs later because she's an innovator or continues to reinvent herself musically, as there is nothing new about music Madonna's released since her comeback with the Ray of Light album 1998 after her two not so successful Erotica and Bedtime Stories albums, as Madonna's career as a major force in music looked over from 1992-97.

 

[Superstition]

I don't think most of the criticism about Madonna on this board is about Madonna not having talent. I think Madonna is talented, a great dancer and a very underrated vocalist, she just not a genius. What's been said is that Madonna isn't as innovative as she, her fans and the media claim she is. Madonna is still a success 25yrs later because of calculation and knowing about getting the right sound.

Calculation in music or any career is a talent it's self, and I'm not saying that in criticism to Madonna but in respect for her amazing success which she's worked hard for. She knows the sounds the public want to hear, where as some artists become self indulgent or stale she's always pushing herself which has to be admired. But Madonna is not a success 25yrs later because she's an innovator or continues to reinvent herself musically, as there is nothing new about music Madonna's released since her comeback with the Ray of Light album 1998 after her two not so successful Erotica and Bedtime Stories albums, as Madonna's career as a major force in music looked over from 1992-97.

I'm not in a position to agree or disagree with you as my knowledge on Madonna is limited, but the way you worded your post is very fair. There's a big difference between being "lucky", which is the point I responded to, and what you mentioned though. I don't have a problem if someone doesn't find Madonna to be a genius. There are other artists who, for the sake of arguement, I don't find to be geniuses (no, it's not MJ.. I most DEFINITELY think he is a genius). But I do think it takes more than "getting lucky" to remain a force in the industry for 25 years.

 

[Mechi]

What i cant stand is the constant comparisons "the Madonna on top ...and michael no " if you think i will shut my mouth up regarding such stupid and false statements , keep on dreaming !!

Moreover , why the hell should i show respec to artists who were insulting michael ??? .

I repeat , Madonna sets NO trends , she is talentless , she has NO voice , NO dance talent NOTHING only her white skin and her lack of respect for other artists , so i DONT RESPECT her .

Nothing will change my mind for that OK ?? not because you remind me the janet thread would change something , ...there are artists that i like and artists that i dont like,Janet and Madonna belong to them , just a normal thing .
I post very regularly on the MJ-section and also in the NO-mj section particularly in the thread of artists i dont like at all because i have something to say about them , i dont see nothing bad in it its a discussion board and if you cant stand that ,i feel bad for you .

I am hater ? well think what you want , i know myself what i am you are not in my mind and you dont know me.

I have already explained why i dont respect her and why i am so pissed (particularly because of the comparisons ) but if you dont want to understand call me a hater thats your problem , but keep in mind that if you provok me you will see my mouth .

Indeed nobody called you a hater serena.
I think what arxter tried to tell you, is that a discussion between a Michael Jackson fan (let's call this fan Jona) and another Michael Jackson fan (let's call this fan serena williams) should be expressed with more balance and be marked by respect for eachother and also eachothers opinion.
You guys are entitled to your opinions and hey even to your hatred if there's some... but as you're both here on mjjcommUNITY you should put more emphasize on what you have in common... the love for Michael Jackson.
I guess you don't mean it, but your posts do sound as if a Madonna fan can't be a Michael Jackson fan same time, while the best example is discussing with you, Jona is a Michael Jackson fan and he's also a Madonna fan, so are many others here and we're all entitled to all our different fandoms aside from being all Michael Jackson fans, aren't we.
The ultimate question is for sure not who's better, bigger, greater than who... the point is to enjoy what's out there. :cheeky:

so back on topic... anyone with an opinion if Madonna is setting trends or not who didn't take part yet?

 

[mjscarousal]

I agree with a lot of things you've said about Madonna and your right in that she hasn't set any trends in music, and she does have a lack of respect for other artists. But a) I wouldn't say Madonna is talentless, she's a great dancer and a good vocalist. She's just not a genius of a talent that's all. b) I resent Madonna being white as something to use against her. She may not be an amazing talent, and I most likely dislike Madonna the person and her music as much as you do. But she has made music a lot of people all over the world love regardless of her not being a complete creative musician/artist. She has had a huge impact on how women can project themselves in music that's influenced black as well as white female stars, even if she's only an indirect influence on some black female stars. Dislike Madonna for being who she is as a person or recording artist, not for her being white (I'm not saying your racist, as I know your talking about the media angle of putting white success above black). Because even though there are forms of subtle racism used by the mainstream media against Michael, as they hate the fact the biggest and most talented pop star of all. time is black. Madonna being white isn't a good criticism to use against Madonna's success. Because why is the bland Beyonce such a huge success, and praised mainstream media. Because I find Beyonce even more overrated than Madonna with her whole sale rip off of Tina Turner's image and stage act.

I also presume like Michael, Madonna would be one of the least racist people you could ever meet which is another reason not to use her race against her.

I agree with everything. Its not a doubt race was a BIG issue back in the day especially with black innovaters that didn't get there dues. Its a different ball game nowadays. Its funny you mention beyonce because she is definately wayyyy overrated and like you said I find her more overrated than Madonna. Beyonce has a descent voice but there is alot of other mainstream artists with JUST "descent" voices. Anybody can have a well descent enough voice to lay a track. There are plenty of singers that are just as good of singer as she is or better that are in the industry or not famous. Not corny but very average artist at best. There is nothing unique OR original about her.

Madonna might of had some mediocre talent but it wasn't legendary by any means and her undeserving successes open doors FOR artists like Beyonce and others to get overly praised over things they didn't innovate, cultivate, invent, and originate. If anything image and style is everything. Being smart in the business, constantly working in the SPOTLIGHT, DOING something in mainstream, is why artists like Madonna and Beyonce are where they are at BUT that by any means isn't a reflection of their talent or what they have contribute to music, which has been nothing.... A WHOLE lot of nothing.....

Commericial does not equal talent. Just because you are "popular" doesn't mean that your doing something "spectacular" OR you have "extraordinary" talent. Just because you are "talented" IN making smart BUSINESS moves in the industry doesn't mean you've contribute to it. It means you have mass appeal(whether that be in how you look, image style etc.) and your constantly doing something in mainstream to get people to want to look at you. It doesn't make you OR what your doing original by any means. Typical mainstream... Don't believe the hype, there isn't no damn music revolution going on today.....but I agree with everything.

He didn't call you a hater because of your dislike of Madonna...

In fact, he didn't call you a hater at all...

Thanks. I'm a "she" but thanks anyway lol...