JUST IN: Michael Jackson died of lethal levels of propofol, court documents show

I really hate to say it...but if Conrad didn't give Michael the medication he wanted, he would have been fired, and another would have taken his place. Conrad was an enabler, but Michael basically killed himself. He knew what he was doing...and the risks.

Over time, I've just come to realize that Michael is just another person in a long list of celebrities who have fallen victim to the vices and power of their celebrity status.

You guys have got to give Michael more credit...he had an insane intelligence, genius in some parts on understanding himself, the world, and his music. He knew the risks of stardom...he saw it with Elvis, he knew the dangers.

So many of you are coddling him like a child...c'mon, give the man more than that. He was smart enough to know what was going on. He just couldn't help himself...like all of our lost loved ones. He just got way in over his head. It's hard to face the truth...but when you start making up conspiracies...that's just wrong. You're tainting his legend, and you're unwilling to face the harsh realities of life. That's how it works sometimes. People die...even Michael Jackson...die. I've read all of the same stuff that you guys have.

You're just looking for an answer...a reason why...when there really isn't one. Michael had a will of his own...he did what he wanted. He wasn't some little kid that needed his hand held to do stuff. He did what he wanted. He had the power to say no. He didn't use it.


Yea, whatever.

You believe what you believe. I know the truth. Michael did not kill him self.
 
Wow!
Someone has got some balls.
23ljot2.jpg

Agree with you Michael :D


I am diagree everything you says about MJ.


:no::scratch:

i agree, i just didnt want to say it 1st :)

i understand were hes coming from but, i just dont think ArchangelX understands Michael at all really, he can think what he wants.
 
I was interested to read that Murray gave Michael's drugs 'because he demanded it'. Who was the Doctor and who was the patient?

Exactly, unbelievably, Sky news reporter almost seems to sympathise with Murray, being under pressure and if your faced with demands what can you do????

WTF

I mean, come on, a Doctor has a responsibility to their patient. No one is addressing this.... It is neither here nor there if Michael demanded anything, the doctor professional judgement takes precendence, he is the authority, not the patient.
 
I really hate to say it...but if Conrad didn't give Michael the medication he wanted, he would have been fired, and another would have taken his place. Conrad was an enabler, but Michael basically killed himself. He knew what he was doing...and the risks.

Over time, I've just come to realize that Michael is just another person in a long list of celebrities who have fallen victim to the vices and power of their celebrity status.

You guys have got to give Michael more credit...he had an insane intelligence, genius in some parts on understanding himself, the world, and his music. He knew the risks of stardom...he saw it with Elvis, he knew the dangers.

So many of you are coddling him like a child...c'mon, give the man more than that. He was smart enough to know what was going on. He just couldn't help himself...like all of our lost loved ones. He just got way in over his head. It's hard to face the truth...but when you start making up conspiracies...that's just wrong. You're tainting his legend, and you're unwilling to face the harsh realities of life. That's how it works sometimes. People die...even Michael Jackson...die. I've read all of the same stuff that you guys have.

You're just looking for an answer...a reason why...when there really isn't one. Michael had a will of his own...he did what he wanted. He wasn't some little kid that needed his hand held to do stuff. He did what he wanted. He had the power to say no. He didn't use it.

I think the law will tell you, that you're wrong.

Murray is not only an enabler. He didn't get the drugs and Michael took them. He gave Michael the stuff which killed him.

homicide investigation?! ringing any bell?


Again I beg to differ.

Michael was no junkie like not being able to deal with life, like taking drugs to forget or taking drugs to get high.

He was a patient seeking for help cuz of insomnia and someone brought him on to the wrong path!
This person plus all those doctors who gave it to him are more responsible than Michael himself. Michael was led into psychological addiction, probably, I don't even really know. But he was led... it wasn't him jumping into it.

You might be right with that there would have been a different doc if it wouldn't have been Murray... but just imagine all docs would have professional dignity... yeah just imagine they'd all stick with their oath... because then Michael Jackson would be still alive and not even in problems.

He was just as responsible for his life as every adult is. But he wasn't responsible for his death. He was no drug addict... he was a patient... and he wasn't handled properly as a patient.

There is an important difference... and if you can't recognize then I'll pray for you the next time you go into a hospital and have to trust your docs simply because you most likely didn't study medicine before you went there?!
 
AngelIX, there are God's Angels, and then there are the devil's angels.
God knows which belong to him, and which belong to the devil.
 
I think the law will tell you, that you're wrong.

Murray is not only an enabler. He didn't get the drugs and Michael took them. He gave Michael the stuff which killed him.

homicide investigation?! ringing any bell?


Again I beg to differ.

Michael was no junkie like not being able to deal with life, like taking drugs to forget or taking drugs to get high.

He was a patient seeking for help cuz of insomnia and someone brought him on to the wrong path!
This person plus all those doctors who gave it to him are more responsible than Michael himself. Michael was led into psychological addiction, probably, I don't even really know. But he was led... it wasn't him jumping into it.

You might be right with that there would have been a different doc if it wouldn't have been Murray... but just imagine all docs would have professional dignity... yeah just imagine they'd all stick with their oath... because then Michael Jackson would be still alive and not even in problems.

He was just as responsible for his life as every adult is. But he wasn't responsible for his death. He was no drug addict... he was a patient... and he wasn't handled properly as a patient.

There is an important difference... and if you can't recognize then I'll pray for you the next time you go into a hospital and have to trust your docs simply because you most likely didn't study medicine before you went there?!

:clap: Very Well Stated.
 
I really hate to say it...but if Conrad didn't give Michael the medication he wanted, he would have been fired, and another would have taken his place. Conrad was an enabler, but Michael basically killed himself. He knew what he was doing...and the risks.

Over time, I've just come to realize that Michael is just another person in a long list of celebrities who have fallen victim to the vices and power of their celebrity status.

You guys have got to give Michael more credit...he had an insane intelligence, genius in some parts on understanding himself, the world, and his music. He knew the risks of stardom...he saw it with Elvis, he knew the dangers.

So many of you are coddling him like a child...c'mon, give the man more than that. He was smart enough to know what was going on. He just couldn't help himself...like all of our lost loved ones. He just got way in over his head. It's hard to face the truth...but when you start making up conspiracies...that's just wrong. You're tainting his legend, and you're unwilling to face the harsh realities of life. That's how it works sometimes. People die...even Michael Jackson...die. I've read all of the same stuff that you guys have.

You're just looking for an answer...a reason why...when there really isn't one. Michael had a will of his own...he did what he wanted. He wasn't some little kid that needed his hand held to do stuff. He did what he wanted. He had the power to say no. He didn't use it.

Totally in disagreement with your thoughts.

A doctor is someone with the professional abilities to cure your problem. Say for example, there was a point I had severe eczema, so bad that it occurs even to my face and I have a problem of meeting people. I BEGGED for my doctor to prescribe me with some steorids but he said NO because of all the long term side effects that steroids might be given to me.

That would be what a good doctor will do, deciding what is the BEST for the patient in the long term, rather than looking into short term benefits.

On Michael's case, he had a sleeping problem, and, being a responsible doctor, even if he is hired by MJ, would it be a medical mal-practise if that guy was injecting a mix of lethal drugs to your body?

That is just some common sense.
 
I really hate to say it...but if Conrad didn't give Michael the medication he wanted, he would have been fired, and another would have taken his place. Conrad was an enabler, but Michael basically killed himself. He knew what he was doing...and the risks.

Over time, I've just come to realize that Michael is just another person in a long list of celebrities who have fallen victim to the vices and power of their celebrity status.

You guys have got to give Michael more credit...he had an insane intelligence, genius in some parts on understanding himself, the world, and his music. He knew the risks of stardom...he saw it with Elvis, he knew the dangers.

So many of you are coddling him like a child...c'mon, give the man more than that. He was smart enough to know what was going on. He just couldn't help himself...like all of our lost loved ones. He just got way in over his head. It's hard to face the truth...but when you start making up conspiracies...that's just wrong. You're tainting his legend, and you're unwilling to face the harsh realities of life. That's how it works sometimes. People die...even Michael Jackson...die. I've read all of the same stuff that you guys have.

You're just looking for an answer...a reason why...when there really isn't one. Michael had a will of his own...he did what he wanted. He wasn't some little kid that needed his hand held to do stuff. He did what he wanted. He had the power to say no. He didn't use it.

MJ paid the ultimate price, so that was his consequence. Murray has to pay his price for his incompetence, covering up & lies. If MJ had a different doctor monitoring him with his use of propofol who had the necessary equipment (ex. he did not have a defibrillator nor the narcan) & if MJ had a more competent doctor even giving Propofol in a home setting Michael would still be with us.
 
As Dick Gregory said, "Doctors make the best assassins."

Please, please click on and watch this videos:
As seen on CNN, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Raphael Gershon explain the deadly effects of Diprivan when administered at home without any (or inadequate) medical supervision:

Click On:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1GdGMOJw4c

The Michael Jackson Case: Do Doctors Get Away With Murder?
Click On:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVCvppI384
[/COLOR]
 
I really hate to say it...but if Conrad didn't give Michael the medication he wanted, he would have been fired, and another would have taken his place. Conrad was an enabler, but Michael basically killed himself. He knew what he was doing...and the risks.

Over time, I've just come to realize that Michael is just another person in a long list of celebrities who have fallen victim to the vices and power of their celebrity status.

You guys have got to give Michael more credit...he had an insane intelligence, genius in some parts on understanding himself, the world, and his music. He knew the risks of stardom...he saw it with Elvis, he knew the dangers.

So many of you are coddling him like a child...c'mon, give the man more than that. He was smart enough to know what was going on. He just couldn't help himself...like all of our lost loved ones. He just got way in over his head. It's hard to face the truth...but when you start making up conspiracies...that's just wrong. You're tainting his legend, and you're unwilling to face the harsh realities of life. That's how it works sometimes. People die...even Michael Jackson...die. I've read all of the same stuff that you guys have.

You're just looking for an answer...a reason why...when there really isn't one. Michael had a will of his own...he did what he wanted. He wasn't some little kid that needed his hand held to do stuff. He did what he wanted. He had the power to say no. He didn't use it.

Well i don't know but i'm just gonna take a shot at it...
Maybe... just maybe... your "truth" maybe different for others?? idk maybe... or maybe that's just me.. hmmm

there is an answer, maybe before telling others how they should open their eyes. you should try it to. we're not speculating things out of nothing. we all have different reasons and different theories as to "why".

it's okay you feel that way but just gotta say your post really was a stomach turner. just saying.

never stop asking. there's an answer to everything.
 
Ok, I've been reading this thread since 1 p.m. (now it's 9 p.m. in Poland) and finally I got to the end and I can keep up with you since now :)

I have some questions:
1. From where have we those documents (Search Warrant)? Who got them? Who was the first to post it in the internet?
2. Are we sure those papers are real and not fabricated?
3. Coroner's office told that they didn't supply any of those information (about Michael's death caused by homicide). So - do we have any official coroner's statement? Or the last coroner's statement was that the toxicology will not be revealed for now?
4. Was this document supposed to be revealed to the public or it's just leaked and further documents will not be supplied for us?

I don't know US law so I'm not sure what to expect (ex. Michael's 2005 case's transcripts were revealed to the public and this was surprising for me).

Thanks for help!
 
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maybe michael used propofol before murray came. maybe he even wanted propofol..
do we kno that? so maybe he actually knew the consequences, but was just unable to handle the situation.
nonetheless murray wasnt at michaels bed when he was supposed to be..
 
I know emotions are running high, but I still can't see this as a murder, but just moronic manslaughter??
I agree though that MJ was long gone before Murray found him. Then, he did his best to cover up.


OK! What about Murray making the security guy calling 911 for help when he knew Michael was already dead. The Operator asked him to put Michael on the floor (Where He should be) to try to revive him while Murray assisted Michael's body being made fool out of. Didn't Murray know he was supposed to put Michael on the floor to perform CPR? Unless he wanted him dead in the first place.
First Degree Murder
I say. Final answer.
 
Michael Jackson, a man who was loved by literally millions of people, was totally alone when he died. That is simply intolerable. There were fans/followers standing just outside the gate, and they LOVED him, but were unable to save him. I DO believe that they tried. My heart hurts. . . . . . . Michael deserves for the truth to come out, whatever it is. He deserves justice, and so do his children.

Agreed! It's an intolerable and heartbreaking to think that! :weeping: I've read so much today... This is so dreadful and wrong. Justice needs to be served.
 
Ok, I've been reading this thread since 1 p.m. (now it's 9 p.m. in Poland) and finally I got to the end and I can keep up with you since now :)

I have some questions:
1. From where have we those documents (Search Warrant)? Who got them? Who was the first to post it in the internet?
2. Are we sure those papers are real and not fabricated?
3. Coroner's office told that they didn't supply any of those information (about Michael's death caused by homicide). So - do we have any official coroner's statement? Or the last coroner's statement was that the toxicology will not be revealed for now?
4. Was this document supposed to be revealed to the public or it's just leaked and further documents will not be supplied for us?

I don't know US law so I'm not sure what to expect (ex. Michael's 2005 case's transcripts were revealed to the public and this was suprising for me).

Thanks for help!

Very good questions. I was just wondering about why the media is running with those sources since the DA said they hadn't received the report?

Also, isn't it so convenient that this info gets leaked in mid-afternoon and a couple of hours later ALL media show have their panel of "experts" lined up for comments? How can this be done so quickly. These people have jobs, how can they just drop everything and get to a TV studio so fast? It just boggles my mind.

BTW, I said it in the thread Is Murray preparing his defense": It's this man's word alone. He can say anything and probably will make MJ look like a drug addict and who knows what else.

Michael was a victim of prescription meds NOT an addict buying drugs on the street. He was seeking treatments from docs that had no ethical behavior.

This is what Michael had:
Vitiligo
definition from the little blue book of psychosomatic disorders Heal Your Body by Louise Hay :
(word for word)
Feeling completely outside of things. Not belonging. Not one of the group.

Lupus:
Giving up. Better to die than stand up for one’s self. Anger and punishement.

Addictions:
Running from the self. Fear. Not knowing how to love the self.

So many parents don’t realise how much they’re screwing up their kids by calling them names and telling them they’re ugly and have a big nose or whatever. They unknowingly plant a self sabotaging program in the kid’s subconscious mind that will come up with anything it can to accomplish it’s goal of self-mutilation.

This is what was needed: (excerpt from Achievement and Learning Foundation http://www.alfcentral.org/healing.htm )

“When the subconscious mind is programmed for mutilation, it produces chronic illness. Here, the doctor medicates an outbreak of some kind, oblivious to the continuing existence of a program calling for the mutilation. This is the mechanism behind recurrence and substitution that medicine refuses to respect. Going into the subconscious and removing the mutilating program allows the body to quite naturally right itself.”

And this next line has been attributed to Hippocrates, the father of western medicine:

“The body’s natural tendency is that toward health.”


I tried to contact MJ many years ago to give him this info and tell him to seek a well-trained hypnotherapist in the Dave Ellman technics that could’ve healed him in less than ten sessions, but I couldn’t penetrate the fog(entourage) surrounding him. That’s why I’m still crying two months after his passing.

Peace out,
LG
 
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Totally in disagreement with your thoughts.

A doctor is someone with the professional abilities to cure your problem. Say for example, there was a point I had severe eczema, so bad that it occurs even to my face and I have a problem of meeting people. I BEGGED for my doctor to prescribe me with some steorids but he said NO because of all the long term side effects that steroids might be given to me.

That would be what a good doctor will do, deciding what is the BEST for the patient in the long term, rather than looking into short term benefits.

On Michael's case, he had a sleeping problem, and, being a responsible doctor, even if he is hired by MJ, would it be a medical mal-practise if that guy was injecting a mix of lethal drugs to your body?

That is just some common sense.

Excellent post. Really does anyone think Murray is going to say Michael didn't beg him? To Murray, it is everybody's fault but his own. Michael didn't want to die. How coherent would Mike have been after all those drugs? As has already been mentioned: it was 10:40 am! Knowing he hadn't eaten, gotten ready for the day or seen his kids yet and that he had rehearsal at 2pm, he'd be begging for propofol to knock him out if he were coherent? Umm...:no:

Let's keep asking the tough questions. Keep THINKING, don't fall into the trap.
 
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Zu, I cant answer any of your questions but man, you're good, you read all 75 pages!! Ive only read like 4 random pages on this topic. High five!
 
MJ paid the ultimate price, so that was his consequence. Murray has to pay his price for his incompetence, covering up & lies. If MJ had a different doctor monitoring him with his use of propofol who had the necessary equipment (ex. he did not have a defibrillator nor the narcan) & if MJ had a more competent doctor even giving Propofol in a home setting Michael would still be with us.

I agree. No decent doctor would give Michael, let alone anybody else, something that had the potential to kill them within minutes without any monitering equipment. Just because a patient (allegedly) wants something and is paying a doctor bucks up the wazoo, doesn't give the doctor the right to act like an automatic yes man with no mind of his own and give the patient what he or she desires. And that also applies even if Michael demanded or begged for it. Michael would never have gotten any of that Propofol if that were true because no one who cared more for him than his money would be willing to get it for him in the first place. So this still falls on Murray because he's the one that gave Michael this stuff on the day he died. And he has admitted that. Murray could have quit or allowed himself to be fired if Michael was really giving him a hard time about the stuff like people keep claiming. At least Murray would have come out of this without the cops and feds on his butt. And I would say the same thing if it was some other doctor and this happened. But Murray didn't leave that house that day with Michael being alive. Murray showed a major and deadly lapse in judgement on his part the minute he put that needle into Michael. So why is everybody on TV kissing Murray's rear? He had a choice. And made the wrong one.
 
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I've also read almost all the posts in this really hot thread.. And I'd like to say that NOW, when Michael is not with us.., nobody would answer our questions for sure! Only Michael could tell us the truth.. As for me, I dunno whom and what to believe now already.. And inspite I love Michael so much and it's too hurting now, I would not blame Murray.. let's be upper! Our blamings wont return Michael.. psycologically (!) it's like a subject of euthanasia- patient demands and doc declains. Who is wrong and who is right..? Just think of it.. :-( I've got the only concern that Michael's insomnia was treated by propofol..!
 
“The body’s natural tendency is that toward health.”

Absolutely! I totally agree with this. The mind/body interaction is a reality.

I applaud your attempts to help Michael, and feel your pain in his passing. x
 
I've also read almost all the posts in this really hot thread.. And I'd like to say that NOW, when Michael is not with us.., nobody would answer our questions for sure! Only Michael could tell us the truth.. As for me, I dunno whom and what to believe now already.. And inspite I love Michael so much and it's too hurting now, I would not blame Murray.. let's be upper! Our blamings wont return Michael.. psycologically (!) it's like a subject of euthanasia- patient demands and doc declains. Who is wrong and who is right..? Just think of it.. :-( I've got the only concern that Michael's insomnia was treated by propofol..!

Don't blame Murray?! So you are saying we shouldn't blame a man who LEFT his patient to die, since he was to busy making phone calls? He saw MJ was not breathing, but he decides oh nope I am not going to call 911 till after I make my more "important" phone calls. Those "important" phone calls were so he can cover his ass.
 
i'm not sure if this has been mentioned but when the doctor was resusciatating mike (trying to start his heart) he wasn't doing it on a hard surface but on the bed which is soft. Anyone knowing first aid knows you need a hard surface. This doctor to me is doggy and i think maybe it was planned.
 
yes, that was Dr. Murray's first story. He then has his lawyer explain his CPR technique saying that it was a "firm" bed and that Murray put one hand under Michael and was doing the compressions with his other hand.


yeaaa... that makes a lot of sense >.> Dr. Murray is an idiot if he really thinks we are going to believe his little stories especially when he keeps changing them.

and yes, I agree I also think this whole thing was planned.
 
i'm not sure if this has been mentioned but when the doctor was resusciatating mike (trying to start his heart) he wasn't doing it on a hard surface but on the bed which is soft. Anyone knowing first aid knows you need a hard surface. This doctor to me is doggy and i think maybe it was planned.

yeah this is one of the first things we found out, about what Conrad Murderer did, or well DIDN'T do really, to Michael.

As it now may seem, it may have been to late for CPR at all, after the stupid amount of drugs Murderer gave to Michael which were Not! needed. :mat:
 
I agree. It doesn't seem like he wanted Michael to survive, at ALL. The statements on the search-warrant show an incredibly strange scenario. Murray's first story, that he "noticed" that Michael was not breathing, at 11 a.m., doesn't match the phone records. That's just one inconsistency.

Here is the point. Murray KNEW he'd given Michael dangerous medications, in combination, but without the equipment there to help him if something went terribly wrong. The warrant statement says that Murray "noticed" that Michael was not breathing. His job was to MONITOR him. If one is a medical professional monitoring someone under anesthesia, one does not "notice" that a person is not breathing. One KNOWS.

There are too many conflicting statements. Murray gave Michael the Propofol. Then left the room to go to the bathroom, for two minutes. Came back, and Michael wasn't breathing. A person has four to five minutes (and five is pushing it) of "not breathing" before brain-damage or death occur. TERRIBLE mistake. If that's what happened, Murray should have called 911 immediately, or yelled for someone else to do it. There was a houseful of people! We know from phone records that Murray's cell phone WAS working. OR, Murray was not in the room somehow, and "found" Michael not breathing (dead) at eleven in the morning. So, what? Murray was SLEEPING? Either way, he was not monitoring Michael after giving dangerous medication. Or, he WAS monitoring him, to see when he DIED?

The multiple phone calls and the lame excuse that he somehow couldn't call 911 on his cell-phone because he "didn't know the address" make NO sense. Neither does so much else about his behavior. His behavior doesn't look like a person trying to SAVE someone. It looks like a deliberate commotion and stalling tactics.

All that stuff on the warrrant don't point to a person in a panic at "finding" Michael dead, or "noticing." It points to a KILLING.

Either Murray is a total and complete MORON, or an assassin. If a moron, here are his moronic mistakes.

Left Michael alone while he was under a dangerous anesthesia. (Either Murray left to go to the bathroom, or simply LEFT and then came back to find Michael not breathing. (In a hospital, when a patient is under anesthesia there are always more than one person present, and the patient is NEVER left alone. Surely Murray knew this.)

He seemed to be incapable of using a telephone. Yet, he made numerous calls on his cell phone to everyone but paramedics.

He yelled down the stairs, but NOT for someone . . anyone . . . to call 911. Inexplicably, he yelled for a CHILD to come to the room where his father was dead or dying. (deliberate commotion?)

Seconds count if someone is not breathing. He left to make PHONE CALLS? He was either telling people, "I f xxxx d up," or, "mission accomplished." One of those two. He told people to clear out his STORAGE UNIT? BEFORE he called 911? That right there is an admission of some sort of guilt.

He did CPR on a BED. Guess he did that because he knew it wouldn't matter, anyway?

He prevented the paramedics from "calling time of death" at the scene. Made a big commotion about that. Statements leaked from paramedics say that they knew Michael had been long-gone by the time they even got there.

He refused to sign the death certificate at the hospital.

He vanished from the hospital (who picked him up? How did he leave?)

And on, and on.

I can understand a person making ONE mistake while in a panic. But not these multiple mistakes and giving multiple versions of an event that has only ONE version. The TRUTH. The thing about telling the truth is that you never have to remember the lies you said before, so your statements will be consistent. You just have to tell the truth about what really HAPPENED! Murray didn't.

I know I've been looking at all angles, "what about this?" "what about that?" I now have the chilling thought that this was deliberate, and planned. It's looking more and more like that. If so, I hope to GOD that Michael didn't KNOW. He was so precious to us, and so GOOD, I just hope he wasn't frightened, or hurt. We KNOW he was frightened of Tohme. Was he also frightened of Murray? Who ELSE was in the house? This is absolutely terrible.

Thing is also is that doctors are trained to deal with situations like that so that they don't panic when they deal with it for real. He's an experienced doctor, not someone just out of med school, he has years of staying calm behind him, so I don't buy the panic causing the mistakes.
 
How come so few media sources are reporting the fact that it was confirmed as MURDER? Could it be that the media dont wanna admit that it was murder and wants their readers to still believe Michael was a druggie who was addicted to painkillers and died from Demerol? I keep reading old articles, where the hell are the big headlines when the truth is out and even the coroner has confirmed Mike was no druggie, it was propofol!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCKS SAKE MEDIA, STOP MAKING EVERYONE BELIEVE MIKE BROUGHT THIS ON HIMSELF. Tell people the truth!!!! If you want your freakin' headlines sold then give us a true story of who killed Michael Jackson!!!! This should be worldwide information, hello!!!!
 
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