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GHOST OF MICHAEL JACKSON??? look...

michaelloverforever1980 said:
I am psychic i dont give readings anymore though due to personal problems and i have seen a hell of alot ,feels like you are attacking me,the reason why i dont think it is a shadow is one u can see the outline of a person or something there,2 u can see right though and shawdows u cant see though and 3 there is no one there to make a shadow and it looks very lighted there aswell,this is just my opinon dont need to be attack
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I am not attacking you sir. In the YouTube video the person explained how we see a shadow. To the left in that room from where the camera points, there is a window. We see the lights from it, and when a person outside passes by, the sunlight reveals a shadow inside the room. Also, it was shown very clearly that the shadow was distorted by the fireplace.

And again, I am not attacking you. I politely asked for a justification for your claim. You said you know this is real(ghosts) How do you know this?
 
even it there is a window the shadow is walking across the room. opposite direction of the window. also it's in front of the fire place but behind the camera. it walked or glided or went between them two objects. and also it looked more defined than just a plain shadow. normally shadows are not proportion right there long or skewed this wasn't. Call me wrong but i just felt something from it. I not going to say it's his spirit and I'm not going to say it's a shadow. it's whatever.
 
I have already started why i think that just think we should be allowed opions,i have been seeing sprits for a very longtime weather people believe that i dont know but i dont lie,hate liers but it might not be michael as normally from transition to sprits takes alongtime,i am thinking tjat neverland is haunted anyways still amazing though x
 
michaelloverforever1980 said:
I have already started why i think that just think we should be allowed opions,i have been seeing sprits for a very longtime weather people believe that i dont know but i dont lie,hate liers but it might not be michael as normally from transition to sprits takes alongtime,i am thinking tjat neverland is haunted anyways still amazing though x
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Offcourse we are allowed to have opinions. No one have said otherwise. But you assert claims, and I have asked how you know these claims to be true. I am not saying you lie, but you still have not made a justification to your claims. Why is that? I am just qurious because I myself try to be honest about everything, and if I make a claim I try my best to justify that claim, because I consider that to be fair play. I also feel that any person I communicate that claim to deserves an explanation. If you feel that does not apply to you then that is your right offcourse.
 
Its a shadow
there were many people roamaing around including the camera crews
you can see the shadow on the fireplace.

I hope Michaels legacy doesnt have to go through all the same goofiness
Elvis's did - to make a mockery of him and not let him rest in peace.

Im not looking forward to crazy conspiracy theories and MJ sightings
and appearitions ..

I want Michaels Legacy to have some class and dignity
from his fans .... not be made a mockery and jokes
like they do Elvis .. Mj deserves better from his fans

im sorry but thats my opinion ..
Michael is part of my heart he is like one of my own
and I would like NOT like that done to any member of my
family or a loved one to make a mocker of their death


Michael is not haunting NEVERLAND >>> Grrrrrrrrrr :doh:
he is not ghost or demon .. he is a spirit which isnt here on earth
to poltergise - his spirit has a greater purpose just like his life did
now he may be with you in spirit and comfort you _ thats different


why would someone even go there
Im just not getting it .. Im sorry :(
its just troubling my heart

No way will I belive that was Michael haunting neverland
it was someones shadow -
 
K.O.S. said:
Offcourse we are allowed to have opinions. No one have said otherwise. But you assert claims, and I have asked how you know these claims to be true. I am not saying you lie, but you still have not made a justification to your claims. Why is that? I am just qurious because I myself try to be honest about everything, and if I make a claim I try my best to justify that claim, because I consider that to be fair play. I also feel that any person I communicate that claim to deserves an explanation. If you feel that does not apply to you then that is your right offcourse.
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I have already said my justications but i will put it again-1- u can see the outline of a person or something there,2- u can see right though and shawdows u cant see though and 3- there is no one there to make a shadow and it looks very lighted there aswell,i have put this down 2 times now this is why i think it is something else then other a shawdow
 
qbee said:
Its a shadow
there were many people roamaing around including the camera crews
you can see the shadow on the fireplace.

I hope Michaels legacy doesnt have to go through allthe same goofiness
Elvis's did - to make a mockery of him and not let him rest in peace.

Im not looking forward to crazy conspiracy theories and MJ sightings
and appearitions ..

I want Michaels Legacy to have some class and dignity
from his fans .... not be made a mockery and jokes
like they do Elvis .. Mj deserves better from his fans

im sorry but thats my opinion ..
Michael is part of my heart he is like one of my own
and I would like NOT like that done to any member of my
family or a loved one to make a mocker of their death


Michael is not haunting NEVERLAND >>> Grrrrrrrrrr :doh:
he is not ghost or demon .. he is a spirit which isnt here on earth
to poltergise - his spirit has a greater purpose just like his life did

why would someone even go there
Im just not getting it .. Im sorry :(
its just troubling my heart
Click to expand...


But don't you want to believe that he's still alive? a lot of fans are afraid to admit it, but some believe that he might be still alive....
Please, don't bash me for that.
 
qbee said:
Its a shadow
there were many people roamaing around including the camera crews
you can see the shadow on the fireplace.

I hope Michaels legacy doesnt have to go through allthe same goofiness
Elvis's did - to make a mockery of him and not let him rest in peace.

Im not looking forward to crazy conspiracy theories and MJ sightings
and appearitions ..

I want Michaels Legacy to have some class and dignity
from his fans .... not be made a mockery and jokes
like they do Elvis .. Mj deserves better from his fans

im sorry but thats my opinion ..
Michael is part of my heart he is like one of my own
and I would like NOT like that done to any member of my
family or a loved one to make a mocker of their death


Michael is not haunting NEVERLAND >>> Grrrrrrrrrr :doh:
he is not ghost or demon .. he is a spirit which isnt here on earth
to poltergise - his spirit has a greater purpose just like his life did

why would someone even go there
Im just not getting it .. Im sorry :(
its just troubling my heart
Click to expand...

Im not saying its michael not at allI am a massive fan have been for 29 years and love him deeply,i wldnt make a mockery of him ever,just to me it looks like something else,ah im leaving this now got to many ppl jumping on me x
 
its only your shadow
never yourself
its only your shadow
no body else
its only your shadow
here in the room
arriving too late

leaving too sooooon...........
 
K.O.S. said:
Paranormal events are by definition not natural, and therefore can not be verified or falsified scientifically. As you probably already know, this is the reason why science disregards supernatural claims.
Click to expand...

that is why agnosticism is a wiser philosophical position than atheism. Kant, Wittgenstein, Popper, etc... didn't say there is no such thing as a supernatural world. They proved that world cannot be known. That is all.

Now I'm not sure if that kind of phenomena at issue (since they are phenomena!) could not be taken as natural and explained in a new scientific paradigm, because after all they are supposed to be something in time (maybe even in space). We are here looking at something, right? Therefore, it would not be metaphysical in a sense. It's not anything like the soul according to Descartes.

In other words, my point is that you cannot say that is metaphysical, just because it's beyond actual science. Something is metaphysical only when it is beyond any empirical conditions. Then we know there will never be a science to explain that. For sure, Popper would say that kind of phenomena at issue here will never be scientific because we can not repeat the experience and make it objective, but it is still an experience, then other scientific paradigm could find a way to control and repeat the situation. BTW, I'm not saying we are before a paranormal phenomenon here. I'm just adressing a philosophical point, because I think you cross the line of agnosticism.
 
michaelloverforever1980 said:
Im not saying its michael not at allI am a massive fan have been for 29 years and love him deeply,i wldnt make a mockery of him ever,just to me it looks like something else,ah im leaving this now got to many ppl jumping on me x
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I want even talking to you dear nor was I bashing you
Im jsut posting my thoughts _ I luv yu - but I dont
belive a word you are saying :) sorry
 
michaelloverforever1980 said:
I have already said my justications but i will put it again-1- u can see the outline of a person or something there,2- u can see right though and shawdows u cant see though and 3- there is no one there to make a shadow and it looks very lighted there aswell,i have put this down 2 times now this is why i think it is something else then other a shawdow
Click to expand...

Hm, ok I see your point. If you don't mind, I will analyze your argument and try to apply what we learned from the YouTube where someone explained why we saw a shadow.

A shadow of a person gives an outline of a person.

A shadow is created by light hitting an object or a person. How dark the shadow is and how well it covers the surface the shadow is on depends on the brightness of the light source and how well this light brightens the room. In this video we see that it is clear sunshine outside. A bright summer day. The room itself is also very bright because of the sun and size of the window, so the shadow is not very dark. This means that when seeing the shadow from a distance it could appear to be transparent, meaning that we can see the fireplace clearly even though there is a shadow there. If it had been clody outside or close to nighttime, or the window was smaller maing the room less bright, then the shadow would appear to be darker and it would have been harder to see the surface of the fireplace where the shadow appears.

Just my opinion.
 
K.O.S. said:
Hm, ok I see your point. If you don't mind, I will analyze your argument and try to apply what we learned from the YouTube where someone explained why we saw a shadow.

A shadow of a person gives an outline of a person.

A shadow is created by light hitting an object or a person. How dark the shadow is and how well it covers the surface the shadow is on depends on the brightness of the light source and how well this light brightens the room. In this video we see that it is clear sunshine outside. A bright summer day. The room itself is also very bright because of the sun and size of the window, so the shadow is not very dark. This means that when seeing the shadow from a distance it could appear to be transparent, meaning that we can see the fireplace clearly even though there is a shadow there. If it had been clody outside or close to nighttime, or the window was smaller maing the room less bright, then the shadow would appear to be darker and it would have been harder to see the surface of the fireplace where the shadow appears.

Just my opinion

U r right then i really cant be arsed to arguy,in a bad place at the monet like everyone else though all the fans were there for eachother,and to be honest it doesnt really matter to me just thought i wld share it,wish i hadnt now :-(
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I think Michael should shock the world and make an "appearance" on Tuesday in the Staples Center. That would be amazing, especially if they caught it on tape!
 
xxHouseLovexx said:
But don't you want to believe that he's still alive? a lot of fans are afraid to admit it, but some believe that he might be still alive....
Please, don't bash me for that.
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Im not bashing you but hell no i dont want to believe he is still alive now
that would make him very sinister and selfish and certainly not happy
he loved what he was about to do and wasnt ready to go into hiding or
pull a hoax to hurt the world _ The Michael I know whould NEVER do that
He loved others to much to do that to them ..

I would preferto think he has gone home to the creator which he belived in and loved so dearly
rather then him living here in pain and in hiding _ I dont see that as anything happy _ it would be
selfish for me to want that .. it might make me feel better but still very worried about his well being

I prefer to believe that he is a living spirit in paradise with his God that brings me much more peace in my
heart and joy for Michael .. no more pain and or sorrow .. he has returned to bliss as he said in his poem

"From bliss I come... to bliss I will return "
Michael Jackson

I can feel his presence closer than ever now
I can close my eyes and he hugs me :)
he can be with me in spirit becuase he now lives in my heart.

You can believe what you want (hugs)
I certainly wont bash you _ but I may disagree




Now if you want to belive he is alive to make yourself
feel better - fine .. but then that is NOT Michael you
are holding on to because _ Michael Jackson is the TRUTH :)
 
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Niemand said:
that is why agnosticism is a wiser philosophical position than atheism. Kant, Wittgenstein, Popper, etc... didn't say there is no such thing as a supernatural world. They proved that world cannot be known. That is all.

Now I'm not sure if that kind of phenomena at issue (since they are phenomena!) could not be taken as natural and explained in a new scientific paradigm, because after all they are supposed to be something in time (maybe even in space). We are here looking at something, right? Therefore, it would not be metaphysical in a sense. It's not anything like the soul according to Descartes.

In other words, my point is that you cannot say that is metaphysical, just because it's beyond actual science. Something is metaphysical only when it is beyond any empirical conditions. Then we know there will never be a science to explain that. For sure, Popper would say that kind of phenomena at issue here will never be scientific because we can not repeat the experience and make it objective, but it is still an experience, then other scientific paradigm could find a way to control and repeat the situation. BTW, I'm not saying we are before a paranormal phenomenon here. I'm just adressing a philosophical point, because I think you cross the line of agnosticism.
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I see your point. But I also see a problem with your argument. I addressed this earlier, and it has to do with the basic used claim that because we can not prove something does not exist it does not mean it does not exist. The problem is that this is not a logical argument.

You can not disprove The Flying Spaghetti Monster or Santa Clause. According to your logic, this means that they could exist, correct?

You see existence is a physical word. It has physical attributes and it is scientific. Science is a tool to explain the physical Universe and all the events that occur in it. Supernatural and Paranormal is by definition an unknown. It is by definition not matter or energy, and is therefore by definition none existence. It can not be verified or falsified because we can not test the assumption. We can not assign physical or mathematical attributes to it, and therefore we will never know the answer to it. We are physical beings living in a physical and mathematical Universe. If I claim something to exist, the only way I can prove that claim is if I can provide physical evidence. Until the word existence can be demonstrated to be other then physical, then the logical course of action would be to dismiss it.

Do you see my point?
 
smooth_criminal05 said:
I think Michael should shock the world and make an "appearance" on Tuesday in the Staples Center. That would be amazing, especially if they caught it on tape!
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Let's hope he does! lol Maybe then we will ALL be able to relax that he's indeed fine. Getting my video recorder ready! lol
 
you do realize that all of you are just wishful thinking?

But every ghost hunting team will want to search Neverland and his last home just to see if hes still around... Which i do believe...
 
This is my final word does this really all matterwe should be hugging and loving together no having heating debats with something that cant be proven or not,come on we have had so much saddness and all this isnt good :-( :-( x
 
It cant be a shadow, its walking.
that would be so cool if it were him, i wonder whats gonna happen to neverland now.
i would have loved to have got a chance to go 1 day.
 
At first I was thinking that I need to wake up from this nightmare about his death, but now I'm beginning to wait for Michael to wake up. It's too hard to explain. :cheeky:
I'm not likely to believe it's his ghost. I think this might be a shadow... :scratch:
 
sabz said:
It cant be a shadow, its walking.
that would be so cool if it were him, i wonder whats gonna happen to neverland now.
i would have loved to have got a chance to go 1 day.
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Put your lights in the room to full. Walk by one of the walls and look at the shadow of yourself. First walk close to the wall and then do it again but walk further away from the wall. Try to see if you can see your feet moving. Keep in mind, that if you have objects close to the wall, your feet will not show because of these objects. Try to do the experiment on a wall that have no objects close to it.
 
Those of you who say "it's just a shadow," cannot prove it. Those of you who say "it's a ghost," cannot prove it. It's all opinion. Personally, I believe ANYTHING is possible. . . .
 
Wow, strange! It's not clear enough for me to see a hat or anything though. I'll have to look for a HQ download and see it. I'm interested in this sort of thing.
 
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