GHOST OF MICHAEL JACKSON??? look...

[K.O.S.]

You can't say things like Ghosts don't exist. Many people have reported to have seen ghosts in their life, they can't all be crazy or seeing things. I feel there are too many skeptics when it comes to things like this, but no one know's for sure. I myself do believe in the supernatural and the afterlife. I believe that people who die before it was their time or die in violent ways are not at peace and their spirit haunts for years and years.

Anyone can say ghosts don't exist. Because there is no evidence for it. It doesn't matter if 1 million people or 2 million people think they saw a ghost, that is not evidence that it is true.

That was the same type of argument used against Michael Jackson when he was accused of child molestation. Let me recap some of the arguments used back then.

(This is an analogy to show the comparison of the faulty logic, the trial or the accusation is not the issue)

"He was accused twice"

"He payed money the first time to get out of it"

"A lot of people claimed they saw something at Neverland"

"Michael always had a special relationship with children"

"He looks weird"

Now why did the jury not take these arguments into consideration?

Because they are not valid arguments to prove the validity of the claim.

The same exact logic applies for claiming that ghosts exist.
You can't say ghosts exist because you don't know that ghosts exist.

Believe it if you will, but saying it is a fact is being dishonest.

 

[Cinnamon234]

I'm not saying it is a fact, I just don't like people with skeptical attitudes about everything who need evidence to believe everything or try to convince others that these things don't exist. Yes, I believe things like this do exist because i've had experience with it myself. I believe in the supernatural 100%. It depends on what kind of person you are I suppose though I guess. Someone like yourself is clearly skeptical about these things and only believes in things if they have proof or it can be explained and that's fair enough, but not everything can be explained so easily. Everything isn't black or white. Life and death are much more complex than that.

 

[NeverCanSayGoodbye_MJ_RIP]

yeah it definately appears to be a shadow of a news crew member, or someone along those lines, walking in that room that is lit up with a bright work light (in the video it looks like a black box on a tripod). I slowed down the video and zoomed in, and it appears to be that way

an example of a work light is this
http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50236486/Work_Light.jpg

because of the brightness of the lights (i use them for indoor lighting when shooting video, which is what they were probably doing in this case) it can cause a very harsh shadow depending on the setup

 

[sunnyday81]

Bringing Michael into the equation does not help.
In the same way anyone can say that ghosts/spirits do exist because there are people who have seen them or ghosts do not exist because people have NOT seen them. We can't see the X-rays or gamma rays but they do exist, because science has advanced to the point that it can prove their existence. In a hundred years, it may be possible that we'll get the answer about the spirit world too, possibly coming from the quantum physics area (quantum physics is spooky on its own anyway).

 

[Cinnamon234]

Bringing Michael into the equation does not help.
In the same way anyone can say that ghosts/spirits do exist because there are people who have seen them or ghosts do not exist because people have NOT seen them. We can't see the X-rays or gamma rays but they do exist, because science has advanced to the point that it can prove their existence. In a hundred years, it may be possible that we'll get the answer about the spirit world too, possibly coming from the quantum physics area (quantum physics is spooky on its own anyway).

Exactly. Excellent points. Bringing Michael and those allegations into this isn't doing anything to prove whether ghosts do or don't exist. Totally different issues.

 

[MoonGlider]

Anyone can say ghosts don't exist. Because there is no evidence for it. It doesn't matter if 1 million people or 2 million people think they saw a ghost, that is not evidence that it is true.

Lack of evidence does not prove non-existence. There is no proof that ghosts exists, but neither is there proof that they do not exist. You cannot prove the negative.

At any rate, it looks like just a shadow to me.

 

[K.O.S.]

I'm not saying it is a fact, I just don't like people with skeptical attitudes about everything who need evidence to believe everything or try to convince others that these things don't exist. Yes, I believe things like this do exist because i've had experience with it myself. I believe in the supernatural 100%. It depends on what kind of person you are I suppose though I guess. Someone like yourself is clearly skeptical about these things and only believes in things if they have proof or it can be explained and that's fair enough, but not everything can be explained so easily. Everything isn't black or white. Life and death are much more complex than that.

Yes but unless you can empirically demonstrate to others how you know this is true or likely to be true, telling people that you know is wrong. How do you know that your experience was not an hallusination? I am not mocking you, just showing you that you are unable to justify the claim, so why should skeptics be silent?

I find it to be silly, a waste of time and potentially harmful to sanity in general to believe in things without evidence. I also believe that such beliefs are harmful to society in the long run. I believe that teaching kids how to think rationally will benefit their lives, but also society in general.

So when I hear a person saying that "I know ghosts exist" I ask the proper questions and ask for a justification of that claim. I care about why I believe things. If I can not justify my belief, I disregard the belief and move on. So why is it wrong to ask someone to justify why they believe something. If one can not answer that question with reason, then your default position would logically be that you actually don't believe, but you want to believe.

If that makes you happy then ok, go for it. But when you say stuff like that in public, expect a reaction. And if you don't like it, then don't talk about it. That is how free speech works. You can think what you want, believe what you want, even to an extent say what you want. But when it comes to communication with other individuals, the rule also states that those individuals hearing about it have a right to respond.

 

[000cozzie000]

I thought someone might've added it on Youtube but on CNN's site it's there, but with the better quality it looks a lot more like a shadow.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/07/03/tr.inside.neverland.cnn?iref=videosearch (4.40)

Looking at this vid, I think it's definitely a shadow :yes:

 

[K.O.S.]

Lack of evidence does not prove non-existence. There is no proof that ghosts exists, but neither is there proof that they do not exist. You cannot prove the negative.

At any rate, it looks like just a shadow to me.

Not a logical argument. Existence require evidence to be true. None existence can not be proven or disproven because none existence does not exist.

Look it up

 

[sunnyday81]

Black holes have been proven to exist by scientists according to evidence. But have you travelled there to tell us how you know? What if those scientists were hallucinating and only wanted to see what they wanted to see? I'm a cancer research scientist myself btw, doing my PhD.

 

[K.O.S.]

Black holes have been proven to exist by scientists according to evidence. But have you travelled there to tell us how you know? What if those scientists were hallucinating and only wanted to see what they wanted to see? I'm a cancer research scientist myself btw, doing my PhD.

Because the scientists don't know 100% that black holes exist. They have detected the gravitational pull of a black hole by using proper instruments. And general physics confirm their theories. If they should discover new evidence that disproves that claim, then they will develop new theories.

Glad to see you study science. Also a very interesting brand of science you study, and very important. But I have one question. What does medical science have to do with physics?

PS! Scientists who sees what they want to see or believe what they want to believe are not scientists. The default position in any general scientific study is that your claim is wrong. If and when you discover evidence that disproves that claim, then you get results. This rule is applied to avoid special pleading and to make sure science works. If scientists believe in things because they want to believe, then my friend science would have been an utter failure.

 

[TUSALMJ]

I am a ghost hunter as a hobby and I've watched this video over and over....


The shadow goes down the hall.....or it's reflecting off the wood floor...I tried to see if it came from behind the camera as I know there is a bank of windows there but they are not right up on the back of the cameraman, and also, the windows in the hall should have done something to the darkness of the shadow but I didn't see where their light had much of any affect. I do know that on the wall opposite the fireplace at the end of the hall are windows and the front door is near there as well. 1, they had lights set up all over the place for multiple media tours that day, 2, I am unsure if that was a tech just because of the lack of a shadow of a wire or anything else. It was a really.......different? unusual? we all know what it looks like?.....sorta shadow. It will also be interesting to see what else comes up as it always seems the more a person had to live for the more powerful of an entity or form they are able to imprint on the environment. I am also going to send this video to a friend and see what they say when they put it through some filters to debunk CNN playing tricks.


-D

 

[TUSALMJ]

May we also have the title of the thread changed to something like "Unknown shadow at Neverland" or something? Saying "GHOST OF MICHAEL JACKSON???" implies something a little um...off the wall.


-D

 

[cryingangel]

May we also have the title of the thread changed to something like "Unknown shadow at Neverland" or something? Saying "GHOST OF MICHAEL JACKSON???" implies something a little um...off the wall.


-D

Lol, I second that.

 

[Conspiracy]

May we also have the title of the thread changed to something like "Unknown shadow at Neverland" or something? Saying "GHOST OF MICHAEL JACKSON???" implies something a little um...off the wall.


-D

Unknown shadow. Haha ye that sound much better. I hope he comeback on tuesday on the memorial. Fingers crossed.

 

[Gwyneira]

This video also claims to prove that it is in fact a shadow.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0laFusN40qc

 

[alex_MJ]

it does have somewhat shadow qualities. look at the shadow that the edge of the door gives off. it looks the same as the 'ghost' but the only question is where could the shadow have come from.i want to believe it's michael jackson though.

 

[K.O.S.]

This video also claims to prove that it is in fact a shadow.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0laFusN40qc

Ghost claim debunked.

Thank you very much

 

[sunnyday81]

Because the scientists don't know 100% that black holes exist. They have detected the gravitational pull of a black hole by using proper instruments. And general physics confirm their theories. If they should discover new evidence that disproves that claim, then they will develop new theories.

Glad to see you study science. Also a very interesting brand of science you study, and very important. But I have one question. What does medical science have to do with physics?

PS! Scientists who sees what they want to see or believe what they want to believe are not scientists. The default position in any general scientific study is that your claim is wrong. If and when you discover evidence that disproves that claim, then you get results. This rule is applied to avoid special pleading and to make sure science works. If scientists believe in things because they want to believe, then my friend science would have been an utter failure.

I said I'm a scientist so as not to be considered a New Age looney of some sort. I can be very highly sceptic too. But as I said, I also have an open mind. Many scientific theories would not be have been proven if the scientists did not have an open mind.
Glad you agree that facts that can be considered scienctific today can be disproved or modified in the future. This may happen with finally getting the proof we need.

 

[michaelloverforever1980]

This deffly looks like an outline of a person and also also a hat,i have psychic ablities and when i saw this clip i got goosepimbles,i made the screen bigger and paused on the moment and there is deffly something there and also u can see straight though,this is amazing footage,did thay pick up on it at cnn? x

 

[K.O.S.]

I said I'm a scientist so as not to be considered a New Age looney of some sort. I can be very highly sceptic too. But as I said, I also have an open mind. Many scientific theories would not be have been proven if the scientists did not have an open mind.
Glad you agree that facts that can be considered scienctific today can be disproved or modified in the future. This may happen with finally getting the proof we need.

Exactly. And that is how one keeps an open mind. BUT, one has to consider the probability of a claim, and how it holds up to scientific scrutiny. Paranormal events are by definition not natural, and therefore can not be verified or falsified scientifically. As you probably already know, this is the reason why science disregards supernatural claims.

 

[Mizz Mina]

This deffly looks like an outline of a person and also also a hat,i have psychic ablities and when i saw this clip i got goosepimbles,i made the screen bigger and paused on the moment and there is deffly something there and also u can see straight though,this is amazing footage,did thay pick up on it at cnn? x

so do i and I felt a shock in my chest I gasp and re watched it about six times before i posted it. it felt like something. If it's just a shadow then I am wrong but it didn't feel like a shadow.

 

[michaelloverforever1980]

so do i and I felt a shock in my chest I gasp and re watched it about six times before i posted it. it felt like something. If it's just a shadow then I am wrong but it didn't feel like a shadow.

Im a psychic as i said and im not just saying this cause i love michael deeply but there is something there weather its another spirit as neverland is so old,but there is no one near so cant be a shadow,and u can see straight though it,its amazing that michael is there so quick as normally the whole transitions takes ages from passing to sprit,that is just my thought dont want to be shouted down though please as i know many ppl dont believe but wow and its very sad as then its all real :-( x

 

[K.O.S.]

Im a psychic as i said and im not just saying this cause i love michael deeply but there is something there weather its another spirit as neverland is so old,but there is no one near so cant be a shadow,and u can see straight though it,its amazing that michael is there so quick as normally the whole transitions takes ages from passing to sprit,that is just my thought dont want to be shouted down though please as i know many ppl dont believe but wow and its very sad as then its all real :-( x

The person in the YouTube video just explained why we see a shadow.

Also, you say you are a psychic. Fine. If you can spare us a few minutes, I would like you to explain how you know all the things you just said you know.

 

[Mizz Mina]

I agree but the feeling was so over whelming i felt it. No I not proclaiming cleo here but I pick up on a lot of things I am very sensitive. I know a lot of things before they happen. I will stop here because i don't want to argue but I agree solely with you.

 

[moonwalker5885]

I cant see anything. I'll have to watch it again and again.......and again.

 

[Mizz Mina]

it starts at 8:22

 

[michaelloverforever1980]

The person in the YouTube video just explained why we see a shadow.

Also, you say you are a psychic. Fine. If you can spare us a few minutes, I would like you to explain how you know all the things you just said you know.

I am psychic i dont give readings anymore though due to personal problems and i have seen a hell of alot ,feels like you are attacking me,the reason why i dont think it is a shadow is one u can see the outline of a person or something there,2 u can see right though and shawdows u cant see though and 3 there is no one there to make a shadow and it looks very lighted there aswell,this is just my opinon dont need to be attack

 

[Screamin]

whos to say that an actual spirit doesnt have shadow like qualities when its reflecting off a wall ?

 

[michaelloverforever1980]

I cant see anything. I'll have to watch it again and again.......and again.

Watch from 8.20 xxx