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For those who are in Support of The Virtual Michael Concept and Perhaps The Future of Entertainment.

For those who are in Support of The Virtual Michael Concept and Perhaps The F...

Just want to apologise if I've offended anyone with my belief this is wrong or my demeanour. I was only debating the logic behind doing such a thing as hiring an impersonator to try and trick the world and pretend Michael Jackson had come back to perform song new song he's never heard. Sorry guys :)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDRTghGZ7XU


Guys at 1:55 it's mj smiling :) just pause at 1:54-1:55 transition and have a look it's mj's face and he his smiling so i guess that CGI bad feeling is just cause they had to lip sync to the lyrics man that smiiiiiiiiiiiiiile its as if he's saying hahaha you're all amazed huh
 
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dam2040 said:
Just want to apologise if I've offended anyone with my belief this is wrong or my demeanour. I was only debating the logic behind doing such a thing as hiring an impersonator to try and trick the world and pretend Michael Jackson had come back to perform song new song he's never heard. Sorry guys
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^ very kind of you, dam2040, to come back and apologize and to explain your perspective. The tone of a post can truly affect the whole thread, so thank you for this. :)
 
Lisha said:
WhoIsIt89, I do not want to say specifically where and how E'Cas was used in that short film because I do not want to work against the illusion for anyone who watches it.

And I'm sorry, I do not have a source to post for you, but I know someone will...fans in general are so good at this sort of thing...if we just sit back and wait, someone will supply the needed info.
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I heard E'Cas claimed he was a stand in on Remember The Time. A Stand is different from a body doby in that usually a stand in doesn't make it onto camera and is used for testing lighting, possibly rehearsing etc.
 
Birchey said:
I heard E'Cas claimed he was a stand in on Remember The Time. A Stand is different from a body doby in that usually a stand in doesn't make it onto camera and is used for testing lighting, possibly rehearsing etc.
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Ahhh, maybe I had read something inaccurate and that was not him standing in for MJ on camera in this one part. Sorry for passing along maybe very wrong information...don't wanna be doing that. :)What you say here, Birchey, could be all there was to it!

EDIT: darkmed..you got me on youtube watching for that spot and freezing it...hahah. I had thought this already that it seems some places were "CGI'd" better, than others. My biggest complaint would be at the end with the Love, love, love, love...it almost seems intentionally...sloppily done???? (or "they ran-out-of-time-there sloppily done, and hoped it would fly...?)

Too bad it is during Love x4 part because that would be an important message/lyric to MJ to get out there and be received, and it perhaps distracts from that.

(oh, darkmed, I see you added the captured moment for us)
 
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Lisha said:
Ahhh, maybe I had read something inaccurate and that was not him standing in for MJ on camera in this one part. Sorry for passing along maybe very wrong information...don't wanna be doing that. :)What you say here, Birchey, could be all there was to it!
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I think it might be as I am sure its all MJ in the video. But there was another E'Cas MJ double role on film..............Back to the future 2 :D

Mjsimulcra.PNG


Fun fact: The VFX Director for the new Slave To The Rhythm performance also worked on VFX on The above film :smilerolleyes: yes I have to much time on my hands lately
 
Re: For those who are in Support of The Virtual Michael Concept and Perhaps The F...

dam2040 said:
Just want to apologise if I've offended anyone with my belief this is wrong or my demeanour. I was only debating the logic behind doing such a thing as hiring an impersonator to try and trick the world and pretend Michael Jackson had come back to perform song new song he's never heard. Sorry guys :)
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We're good don't worry. I would never be offended by your opinion or belief, you did come across snappy though but it takes a big person to come back and apologise and I truly respect you for that and I appreciate it. :)
 
Birchey said:
As for using this stuff in the future. I think spending the time to animate Michaels movements from footage on a 3D body is the only thing which would do this. Also I think using an older face model of Michael would have been nice, the face his children actually remembered.
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Yes I felt this too !! :heart:
 
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<section id="module-position-NN1dYUofpF8" class="storytopbar-bucket story-headline-module" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 30.399999618530273px; line-height: 33.599998474121094px;">Meet the conjurers of Michael Jackson's ghost

</section><section id="module-position-NN1dYUoY0cM" class="storytopbar-bucket priority-asset-module" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 30.399999618530273px; line-height: 33.599998474121094px;"><aside class="interactive sequencer" data-interactive-id="9452769" data-title="The grand illusion" data-seo-title="the-grand-illusion" data-ssts="news" data-cst="news" data-series="" data-suppressad="false" data-contenttype="sequencer interactives" style="margin: 15px auto 30px 50px; position: relative; width: 920px; z-index: 0; overflow: visible !important; box-shadow: none;"><section class="header interactive-header-wrapper" style="display: table; width: 888px; border-top-width: 10px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(0, 155, 255); padding: 10px 15px; background: rgb(248, 248, 249);">THE GRAND ILLUSION
Audiences at Sunday's Billboard Music Awards ceremony were treated to a performance of Slave to the Rhythm by none other than the late Michael Jackson himself. Though widely mistaken as a hologram, the performance by Michael Jackson was the result of computer-generated images, live performers and a touch of illusion known as Pepper's ghost. Here's how producers mixed fantasy with reality:


</section>
  • 1​
    PROJECTOR SCREEN
  • 2​
    VIDEO REFLECTION
  • 3​
    VIEWING AUDIENCE
  • 4​
    ON STAGE
  • 5​
    ENHANCED ILLUSION




</aside>
</section><section id="module-position-NN1dYUrO98o" class="storytopbar-bucket story-byline-module" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 30.399999618530273px; line-height: 33.599998474121094px;">Marco della Cava, USA TODAY











SAN RAFAEL, Calif. — Michael Jackson came back to life last Sunday on the Billboard Music Awards telecast. And the team that orchestrated his high-tech resurrection is beaming through their fatigue.
"It scared us to death to create an image that had to look, feel and function for four minutes like an entertainer everyone in the world knows," says Frank Patterson, CEO of digital effects firm Pulse Evolution. "You have to see his eyes and moves and believe it was him."
MORE: Jackson mirage heralds future of posthumous shows
After a week of social and online media speculation about how the effect was pulled off, Florida-based Pulse exclusively invited USA TODAY to its Bay Area studios, located in the former headquarters of George Lucas' Industrial Light & Magic, to explain the details behind Jackson's performance of Slave to the Rhythm, off the late singer's new album, Xscape.
But first, a plea. "It's not a hologram," says Pulse Executive Chairman John Textor, sitting in the room where the Jackson effect was crafted with Patterson and visual effects supervisor Stephen Rosenbaum, who worked on Avatar.
So what is it? "An illusion," Patterson says.
Indeed, Pulse refined a 19th-century magician's technique called Pepper's ghost, which Textor — then leading Oscar-winning graphics company Digital Domain — also employed to summon the ghost of slain rapper Tupac Shakur at the Coachella music festival in 2012. The effect involves projecting an image on glass or plastic at a 45-degree angle, which brings that image into the viewer's field of view.
But the Jackson illusion was infinitely more complex to pull off. "Tupac had no hair, and just stood there, where Michael had to be all over the place," Patterson says.
<aside itemprop="associatedMedia" itemscope="" itemtype="http://schema.org/ImageObject" class="wide single-photo" style="margin-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 25px; margin-left: 60px;">
1400800106000-MeetCongurers-3.jpg
Pulse Executive Chairman John Textor, left, and CEO Frank Patterson discuss the creation of the Michael Jackson illusion at the Pulse studio in San Rafael, Calif., on May 21, 2014.(Photo: Martin E. Klimek ,USA TODAY)
</aside>

Here's how things went down over eight long months of development.
Pulse first recorded Slave's gilded backdrop and real dancers in staggering 8K resolution (4K TVs are state of the art), using two $50,000 Red Dragon cameras. Next, a computer-generated Jackson circa 1991 (the period chosen by the Jackson estate) was subjected to an arduous animation process that was crucial to its success.
"You have to get across what's called the 'uncanny valley,' which says the closer you get to making a digital human real, the creepier it gets," says Patterson, adding that the illusion still lacked believability two weeks before the awards. "In the end, with all the intricate details in Michael's face and gestures, we feel we got across."
Come showtime, Pulse hung six high-powered projectors overhead and aimed the high-resolution footage of Jackson dancing and singing down at a piece of Mylar.
To the audience assembled at Las Vegas' MGM Grand, it looked as if a life-size Jackson was in front of them. The illusion was cemented by the presence of live dancers (foreground) and band (background).
"When the people who knew Michael best started crying at the show, we knew we'd done something," Textor says. "Then we started crying."
29906170001_3582715122001_vs-537e44a2e4b006627354c199-672293880001.jpg
Pulse Evolution, the digital firm that orchestrated Michael Jackson's "appearance" at the Billboard Music Awards, exclusively invited USA TODAY to its studios for a look at how the illusion was created. USA TODAY
​


</section>
 
Keeping MJ alive like this for future generations is a great idea, in moderation. But only if they can generate a 3D MJ from his own movements. If we want to see an impersonator we can see an impersonator. Having an impersonator with Michael's face and advertising it as Michael is not only misleading, it's insulting.
You have to wonder though how far this will go in the future. Will we end up with a virtual MJ that talks and interacts with crowds too? I think there's a fine line between honouring and creepiness here. Michael should be remembered for what he gave us while he was here, not as an animation that's never going to have the creativity or spontaneity of the real him. I worry that the wonder and otherworldliness will end up lost in glitter.
 
Anna said:
Keeping MJ alive like this for future generations is a great idea, in moderation. But only if they can generate a 3D MJ from his own movements. If we want to see an impersonator we can see an impersonator. Having an impersonator with Michael's face and advertising it as Michael is not only misleading, it's insulting.
You have to wonder though how far this will go in the future. Will we end up with a virtual MJ that talks and interacts with crowds too? I think there's a fine line between honouring and creepiness here. Michael should be remembered for what he gave us while he was here, not as an animation that's never going to have the creativity or spontaneity of the real him. I worry that the wonder and otherworldliness will end up lost in glitter.
Click to expand...

Not only that, it's false advertising which is illegal. (I am not saying this is what happened, so before any jumps on me- I am simply stating a fact.)
 
Lisha;4011795 said:
King did incorporate many of MJ's standard steps but brought something fresh to it.

I know many fans did not like the red spats and red socks underneath the red pants...but again, I appreciated that Bush went with something new and changed it up. Fans have been known to compliment MJ in his red outfit in the Blood in the Dance Floor vid, maybe Bush was paying attention to that and hoped to please the fans with the switch up to red. Things can get stale...nice to see a fresh look that still points back to the original.

Just my personal opinion, and there are so many opinions out there. :)

Wendy, thank you for being brave and starting this thread so we can have a spot to dialogue a bit about all of this. :hug:
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Hello Lisha Yes my opinion echoes yours a lot . I liked the idea how Bush could change yet keep the same. A beautiful touch I personally thought. It is lovely to see you by the way :huggy:

You are more than welcome Lisha :heart: and thank you for coming in :huggy:



dam2040;4011833 said:
:)
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:huggy: dam2040 Thanks Sweetie x

bluesky;4012007 said:
<section class="storytopbar-bucket story-headline-module" id="module-position-NN1dYUofpF8" style="line-height: 33.59px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 30.39px;">Meet the conjurers of Michael Jackson's ghost

</section><section class="storytopbar-bucket priority-asset-module" id="module-position-NN1dYUoY0cM" style="line-height: 33.59px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 30.39px;"><aside class="interactive sequencer" style="margin: 15px auto 30px 50px; width: 920px; overflow: visible !important; position: relative; z-index: 0; box-shadow: none;" data-contenttype="sequencer interactives" data-suppressad="false" data-series="" data-cst="news" data-ssts="news" data-seo-title="the-grand-illusion" data-title="The grand illusion" data-interactive-id="9452769"><section class="header interactive-header-wrapper" style="background: rgb(248, 248, 249); padding: 10px 15px; width: 888px; border-top-color: rgb(0, 155, 255); border-top-width: 10px; border-top-style: solid; display: table;">THE GRAND ILLUSION
Audiences at Sunday's Billboard Music Awards ceremony were treated to a performance of Slave to the Rhythm by none other than the late Michael Jackson himself. Though widely mistaken as a hologram, the performance by Michael Jackson was the result of computer-generated images, live performers and a touch of illusion known as Pepper's ghost. Here's how producers mixed fantasy with reality:


</section>
  • 1​
    PROJECTOR SCREEN
  • 2​
    VIDEO REFLECTION
  • 3​
    VIEWING AUDIENCE
  • 4​
    ON STAGE
  • 5​
    ENHANCED ILLUSION




</aside>
</section><section class="storytopbar-bucket story-byline-module" id="module-position-NN1dYUrO98o" style="line-height: 33.59px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 30.39px;">Marco della Cava, USA TODAY











SAN RAFAEL, Calif. &#8212; Michael Jackson came back to life last Sunday on the Billboard Music Awards telecast. And the team that orchestrated his high-tech resurrection is beaming through their fatigue.
"It scared us to death to create an image that had to look, feel and function for four minutes like an entertainer everyone in the world knows," says Frank Patterson, CEO of digital effects firm Pulse Evolution. "You have to see his eyes and moves and believe it was him."
MORE: Jackson mirage heralds future of posthumous shows
After a week of social and online media speculation about how the effect was pulled off, Florida-based Pulse exclusively invited USA TODAY to its Bay Area studios, located in the former headquarters of George Lucas' Industrial Light & Magic, to explain the details behind Jackson's performance of Slave to the Rhythm, off the late singer's new album, Xscape.
But first, a plea. "It's not a hologram," says Pulse Executive Chairman John Textor, sitting in the room where the Jackson effect was crafted with Patterson and visual effects supervisor Stephen Rosenbaum, who worked on Avatar.
So what is it? "An illusion," Patterson says.
Indeed, Pulse refined a 19th-century magician's technique called Pepper's ghost, which Textor &#8212; then leading Oscar-winning graphics company Digital Domain &#8212; also employed to summon the ghost of slain rapper Tupac Shakur at the Coachella music festival in 2012. The effect involves projecting an image on glass or plastic at a 45-degree angle, which brings that image into the viewer's field of view.
But the Jackson illusion was infinitely more complex to pull off. "Tupac had no hair, and just stood there, where Michael had to be all over the place," Patterson says.
<aside class="wide single-photo" style="margin-top: 25px; margin-bottom: 20px; margin-left: 60px;" itemtype="http://schema.org/ImageObject" itemscope="" itemprop="associatedMedia">
1400800106000-MeetCongurers-3.jpg
Pulse Executive Chairman John Textor, left, and CEO Frank Patterson discuss the creation of the Michael Jackson illusion at the Pulse studio in San Rafael, Calif., on May 21, 2014.(Photo: Martin E. Klimek ,USA TODAY)
</aside>

Here's how things went down over eight long months of development.
Pulse first recorded Slave's gilded backdrop and real dancers in staggering 8K resolution (4K TVs are state of the art), using two $50,000 Red Dragon cameras. Next, a computer-generated Jackson circa 1991 (the period chosen by the Jackson estate) was subjected to an arduous animation process that was crucial to its success.
"You have to get across what's called the 'uncanny valley,' which says the closer you get to making a digital human real, the creepier it gets," says Patterson, adding that the illusion still lacked believability two weeks before the awards. "In the end, with all the intricate details in Michael's face and gestures, we feel we got across."
Come showtime, Pulse hung six high-powered projectors overhead and aimed the high-resolution footage of Jackson dancing and singing down at a piece of Mylar.
To the audience assembled at Las Vegas' MGM Grand, it looked as if a life-size Jackson was in front of them. The illusion was cemented by the presence of live dancers (foreground) and band (background).
"When the people who knew Michael best started crying at the show, we knew we'd done something," Textor says. "Then we started crying."
29906170001_3582715122001_vs-537e44a2e4b006627354c199-672293880001.jpg
Pulse Evolution, the digital firm that orchestrated Michael Jackson's "appearance" at the Billboard Music Awards, exclusively invited USA TODAY to its studios for a look at how the illusion was created. USA TODAY
​


</section>
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Blue Sky :heart: Okay and thank you very much for the actual confirmation about The VMJ . Very appreciated :flowers:


Many thanks to everyone here :flowers: So maybe we have peeked a little into The Future of Entertainment ?

I say ...... Viva VMJ ! :give_heart:
 
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I think this thread is the place for this image, I may be hung drawn and quartered, but I like it and it's relevant to the illusion.

imagejpg1.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
^^^ I was going to post that as an example of Michael in his 'chair' as a response elsewhere, but I thought better of it. Lol
 
I thought it might be safe for me to share my feelings about something on this thread. I am really annoyed with people and some media saying that Xscape and the Virtual Michael Experience is &#8220;not what he would have wanted&#8221; it is &#8220;all about money for the Estate&#8221; and &#8220;they should let him rest in peace&#8221;.

Ok, I know for a fact that some of these people were absolutely silent when KJ went after AEG in a civil trial (for MONEY) During the trial they exposed many deeply personal, private, and even humiliating aspects of MJ&#8217;s life and death (for MONEY).

Would he have wanted THAT?

Was THAT letting him rest in peace?

Only when the Estate does something that doesn&#8217;t benefit like 80 people is it wrong. It&#8217;s like some people WANT the Estate to fail MJ. So they see everything they do as a failure.

There have been times when it wasn&#8217;t easy being an MJ fan. But we always had him to lead us, no matter what. We tried to support him and show our love, we never had to guess &#8220;what would he want?&#8221; (even when we didn&#8217;t agree with him) Now it&#8217;s different. No one really knows what he would want. All we do know is that he wanted his music to live forever and be enjoyed by people all over the world forever. Isn&#8217;t that kind of what Xscape is doing??

Technology changes every day. In 10 years there will be technology that we can&#8217;t even imagine today. So there is no way MJ could have sat down and made a list of all the things he wanted done with his music and his image after death. So he picked people that he thought would keep up with the world he left behind and find a place for his art.

That&#8217;s the magic.
 
LastTear said:
^^^ I was going to post that as an example of Michael in his 'chair' as a response elsewhere, but I thought better of it. Lol
Click to expand...

The VMJ was very true to Michael. The estate went through the archives and saw all the pics you just posted. It was a divine performance. I can imagine Michael really performing this. Hopefully we can have more of this.

BRAVO BRAVO ESTATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please continue to perfect this illusion. Michael would love this. :clapping:
 
sfosteredi;4012714 said:
I thought it might be safe for me to share my feelings about something on this thread. I am really annoyed with people and some media saying that Xscape and the Virtual Michael Experience is &#8220;not what he would have wanted&#8221; it is &#8220;all about money for the Estate&#8221; and &#8220;they should let him rest in peace&#8221;.

Ok, I know for a fact that some of these people were absolutely silent when KJ went after AEG in a civil trial (for MONEY) During the trial they exposed many deeply personal, private, and even humiliating aspects of MJ&#8217;s life and death (for MONEY).

Would he have wanted THAT?

Was THAT letting him rest in peace?

Only when the Estate does something that doesn&#8217;t benefit like 80 people is it wrong. It&#8217;s like some people WANT the Estate to fail MJ. So they see everything they do as a failure.

There have been times when it wasn&#8217;t easy being an MJ fan. But we always had him to lead us, no matter what. We tried to support him and show our love, we never had to guess &#8220;what would he want?&#8221; (even when we didn&#8217;t agree with him) Now it&#8217;s different. No one really knows what he would want. All we do know is that he wanted his music to live forever and be enjoyed by people all over the world forever. Isn&#8217;t that kind of what Xscape is doing??

Technology changes every day. In 10 years there will be technology that we can&#8217;t even imagine today. So there is no way MJ could have sat down and made a list of all the things he wanted done with his music and his image after death. So he picked people that he thought would keep up with the world he left behind and find a place for his art.

That&#8217;s the magic.
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Thank you so much for posting this. This so called MJ supporters (which I have a hard time believing) are total hypocrites. Like you mentioned K. Jackson sued for billions all for the MONEY and they dragged Michael's name with it,but the family and these ppl didn't care they still support this greedy family. Now they won't support this project or anything the estate is putting out because they say it is all about the money. RIGHT!

So what do these ppl want? For Michael to be forgotten? Because even if they re-release any of his back catalogues they are still making money right? Also they would actually have to burn every single copy of Michael's catalogue so nobody makes money and let him rest in peace and forgotten forever.

Michael in interviews and handwritten notes WANTED to be immortalized with his artistry. He chose these two ppl to execute this. They have done a phenomenal job (maybe MICHAEL was rushed a little and not executed as well but still there are some great work there and they learned from that experience and that is all we can hope). John Branca was very close to Michael and knew him very well. He knew Michael was all about pushing the envelope and being the most innovative, creative, and at the top of technology. THIS was a great example. Amazing.

I hope the ESTATE keeps perfecting technology and cutting edge techniques to fulfill Michael's wishes of staying at the top of the latest technological advances. AND Keeping the MICHAEL MAGIC ALIVE!!!!!!

One last point, the children will be inheriting all this and so are his charities and well of course everybody else will get paid. That is just normal standard practice for all corporations.
 
Who are these people you are referring to Tricia? Because I've only seen one person say they wouldn't support the album based on the Billboard performance. The rest of us have simply said our belief without even criticizing the album. I've voiced my support numerous times for the album, and voiced my distaste for that impersonator projected dancing around on a flat screen.


Because I don't support "Virtual Michael", because I know it simply wasn't virtual at all, I don't support Michael? Who are these "hypocrites" you're referring to, because while that AEG case was going on, I was also in those threads voicing my distaste for Katherine & Co, for allowing so much private information to be made public all for their sole attempt at getting more money from AEG. I know for a fact that some of the others who voiced their dislike for "VMJ" were also in those threads voicing their distaste for KJ & Co, people like Pentum, people you know very well are supporters of Michael based on your own time in the Great Album Debate thread. Now all of a sudden we're not MJ supporters simply because we criticize, and rightfully so, "VMJ" and the Estate's willingness to play us for fools? I'm just trying to understand what it is you're trying to say.
 
Excuse me, I'm not Tricia but if you don't support Virtual MJ, why are you on this thread? Read the title.
 
Because like I said on the first page. I support the idea and the concept, what I don't support is the execution...Isn't that what the thread title says, for "those who are in Support of The Virtual Michael Concept"?


Woops, not on the first page, but the third. Hehehehe....


WhoIsIt89 said:
That's an N64 by the way in that photo, btw. Not an XBOX.


Anyway, as I've said countless times, I supported this before it aired. And I'll continue to support it as long as it's executed better. If they can't do any better than what we got at the Billboard Awards, I just don't think they should even continue to bother.
Click to expand...

Yeah.
 
Re: For those who are in Support of The Virtual Michael Concept and Prehaps The Future of Entertainm

They just need to do it right. Get a GREAT dancer, put a green suit on him and make some magic. Maybe even finish TII...
 
@WhoIsIt89 If they could improve this and do it better how would you like to see it used? I'm not entirely sure about a whole concert as I would imagine it would be very difficult to pull off. But maybe within a show, it would be nice for people who weren't able to see Michael in concert to see his illusion perform say, for example, Billie Jean, just how we know he would do it.
 
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