Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option

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yeah but CNN showed a report on propofol , the guy who was given propofol stopped breathing within seconds , that's what i'm talking about, they made it seem like you would definitely stop breathing immediatley and that's why it was insane to take it at a house .

No. If you are overdosed you would stop breathing. I didn't see the CNN report but I have seen patients in the hospital and in other settings given this drug and others that would also knock you out. If you give enough to paralyze the lungs then the patient needs to be intubated. That is what happens with many drug overdoses. You are too relaxed.
 
Soundmind is right. the guy at the hospital who was given Propofol stopped breathing by himself within literally 5 seconds. they counted it down.

I'm not saying he is wrong. I am saying that it doesn't have to work that way.
 
Induction and Maintenance of General Anesthesia

Adult Patients (Younger Than 55 Years of Age).

For induction of anesthesia, the manufacturers recommend that patients with ASA Physical Status I or II who have not been premedicated or those who received premedication with oral benzodiazepines or IM opiate agonists usually should receive 40 mg (2–2.5 mg/kg) of propofol every 10 seconds according to the patient’s response, until onset of induction.
For maintenance of anesthesia in patients undergoing general surgery, the usual initial IV infusion rate of propofol is 100–200 mcg/kg per minute (6–12 mg/kg per hour), administered concomitantly with inhaled 60–70% nitrous oxide and oxygen. Immediately following induction, higher IV infusion rates of 150–200 mcg/kg per minute generally may be required for the first 10–15 minutes, and then decreased by 30–50% during the first 30 minutes of maintenance anesthesia. The manufacturers state that IV infusion rates of 50–100 mcg/kg per minute usually are used to optimize recovery times.

Alternatively, for maintenance anesthesia, healthy adults may receive propofol doses of 20–50 mg by intermittent IV injection in combination with inhaled nitrous oxide. Additional IV doses of 20–50 mg may be given if necessary, as determined by changes in vital signs (increases in pulse rate, blood pressure, sweating and/or lacrimation) indicating response to surgical stimulation or lightening of anesthesia.

where does this fit with I gave him 25 mg of propofol only ? not even 50 mg makes sense
 
I'm not saying he is wrong. I am saying that it doesn't have to work that way.

as I said before, it worked the first night, it worked the second night , hell it worked the 7th night but it worked for SIX WEEKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'm not saying he is wrong. I am saying that it doesn't have to work that way.

so how do you explain the discrepancy here? did Michael have to be intubated every time he was given Propofol or not? based on this video, he'd have to be.
 
as I said before, it worked the first night, it worked the second night , hell it worked the 7th night but it worked for SIX WEEKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure what you are trying to say or if you are being sarcastic. All I can tell you regarding the dosage table you gave here, that was for general anesthesia. There were other drugs given and you would not have to give as much Propofol.

The whole idea in theory was to allow MJ to sleep, not to put him totally out. As you can see, it works quickly and well for surgery. It is also used in clinics and other settings where a doctor must perform procedures.
 
so how do you explain the discrepancy here? did Michael have to be intubated every time he was given Propofol or not? based on this video, he'd have to be.

That Video was in an operating room where they were doing general anesthesia. Michael was not intubated night after night. If he were he would still be here.

You can use this drug without having to intubate, you just don't give as much.
 
so how do you explain the discrepancy here? did Michael have to be intubated every time he was given Propofol or not? based on this video, he'd have to be.

I got what Beachlover said , but what are the chances MJ survived many nights of propofol without appropriate monitoring and without intubation . Murray as Beachlover said was not trained to give IV , was not an anaesthetist and even those get the doses wrong manytimes when it comes to propofol , this is a drug with zerro margin for error , anything wrong , only cc end up in death . how come murray kept mj alive all these nights ? it was a MIRACLE .
 
I got what Beachlover said , but what are the chances MJ survived many nights of propofol without appropriate monitoring and without intubation . Murray as Beachlover said was not trained to give IV , was not an anaesthetist and even those get the doses wrong manytimes when it comes to propofol , this is a drug with zerro margin for error , anything wrong , only cc end up in death . how come murray kept mj alive all these nights ? it was a MIRACLE .

I hate to burst your bubble but there are thousands of procedures throught the US where this drug is used and people are not intubated. You do not have to be a trained anesthesiologist to use the drug but you should know the side effects and have the proper equipment handy. I am relatively sure he was not intubated when he used it in Germany.

Something went wrong that night.
 
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My ode to Beachlover:

She answers questions, she asks good questions, she has expertise and knowledge that no one else here has (at least so far as I have seen), she is focused on the facts and truth, she has been attacked but has remained polite and humble.

Thank you Beachlover, you have opened my eyes and educated me. That is worth a lot to me.
 
I'm not sure what you are trying to say or if you are being sarcastic. All I can tell you regarding the dosage table you gave here, that was for general anesthesia. There were other drugs given and you would not have to give as much Propofol.

The whole idea in theory was to allow MJ to sleep, not to put him totally out. As you can see, it works quickly and well for surgery. It is also used in clinics and other settings where a doctor must perform procedures.

oh really , propofol effect wear off within minutes , what are you talking about ?
 
My ode to Beachlover:

She answers questions, she asks good questions, she has expertise and knowledge that no one else here has (at least so far as I have seen), she is focused on the facts and truth, she has been attacked but has remained polite and humble.

Thank you Beachlover, you have opened my eyes and educated me. That is worth a lot to me.

Well thanks very much for that. I know that I am persistent at times but I really do know medicine and understand it and if something is being stated as wrong I try to help people to understand it. This does not mean I am siding with the doctor at all. It means that there is sometimes a logical explanation.

He was guilty, but I don't want people to believe that Propofol when used correctly is not a good drug. It is NOT a drug for sleeping though. :bugeyed
 
oh really , propofol effect wear off within minutes , what are you talking about ?

I am not sure I get what you are asking me.

You are supposed to give the propofol as a CONTINUOUS infusion. It is that drip which I believe caused the problem with the propofol in the home.
 
no one said it was not a good drug, infact it is a great drug . the whole point of using propofol was to sedate mj , 25 mg or even 50 mg would not have sedated him . see why your explanation is not making any sense .
 
no one said it was not a good drug, infact it is a great drug . the whole point of using propofol was to sedate mj , 25 mg or even 50 mg would not have sedated him . see why your explanation is not making any sense .

I am not giving you a dose. I am merely explaining that the Propofol is given at a certain drip rate to coincide with the dose that is needed to make him 'sleep' but not make him stop breating. This is a continuous drip. You give this dose until you want to wake the patient up and then you stop. When you stop the drip, the patient wakes up.

I don't know what dose sedated him. I was not there. Murray said 25 mg, I did not say any dose.
 
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I am not sure I get what you are asking me.

You are supposed to give the propofol as a CONTINUOUS infusion. It is that drip which I believe caused the problem with the propofol in the home.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say or if you are being sarcastic. All I can tell you regarding the dosage table you gave here, that was for general anesthesia. There were other drugs given and you would not have to give as much Propofol.

The whole idea in theory was to allow MJ to sleep, not to put him totally out. As you can see, it works quickly and well for surgery. It is also used in clinics and other settings where a doctor must perform procedures.

He was guilty, but I don't want people to believe that Propofol when used correctly is not a good drug. It is NOT a drug for sleeping though.

propofol does not make you sleep , it puts you OUT and 25 mg nor 50 mg were enough to put mj or anyone else out , it was not even enough to sedate him

as for the other drugs who according to murray did not even put mj to sleep AT ALL . according to Dr.liar the last one was given THREE HOURS before propofol . it did not work immediatley but it worked three hours later !!!!!!!!!!1
 
I hate to burst your bubble but there are thousands of procedures throught the US where this drug is used and people are not intubated. You do not have to be a trained anesthesiologist to use the drug but you should know the side effects and have the proper equipment handy. I am relatively sure he was not intubated when he used it in Germany.

Something went wrong that night.

no, you are the one who doesn't seem to get it. something certainly went wrong. but it wasn't just THAT night. what went wrong was Murray taking HUGE chances every night he gave Mike the Propofol -- not intubating him, not having backup in the form of a medical team AND equipment.

MURRAY WENT WRONG.

EDIT: in other words, if we're to believe this was happening for six weeks, then June 25th should have come much earlier.
 
My ode to Beachlover:

She answers questions, she asks good questions, she has expertise and knowledge that no one else here has (at least so far as I have seen), she is focused on the facts and truth, she has been attacked but has remained polite and humble.

Thank you Beachlover, you have opened my eyes and educated me. That is worth a lot to me.

I'd have to differ but I don't want my post deleted again, so I shall have to refrain from doing so.
 
I'm going to explain this because it is important in the scheme of things.

Propofol comes in a vial and is mixed. You don't just give this drug once to make a person sleep. You are supposed to mix it in a bag with something like dextrose and you would let it drip into the patient and when you want to wake them up you would stop the Propofol infusion.

Now, I am a nurse and doctors never give IV's in the hospital. Nurses do that 99% of the time as well as start the IV's. Doctors in my hospital NEVER start an IV. Never. Most are clueless how to operate an IV Pump. I don't now if there was an IV pump to control the rate and flow. That would be in my opinion, VERY important. Certain drugs like this need to be very controlled and how can you do that without a pump so you know the rate is correct?

So, thats another question I have for this doctor.

You know, that's something I've wondered about, so thanks for bringing it up. It's NEVER a doctor who actually gives an I.V. Do 99% of doctors even know HOW? It takes a certain skill to get it right, that comes with practice. I've had I.V.'s maybe four or five times, total, in my life? It's always a nurse who gives it. In my opinion, the expertise of nurses is very undervalued. Doctors do certain things, and are generally clueless about other things. Nurses have the EXPERIENCE with I.V.s, and with administering medications, that is invaluable. The doctor ORDERS the medication, but is not the one who actually gives it.

Same in an operating room. The doctor may do the surgery, but NOT the anesthesia, which is very specialized.

So WHY was this doctor giving an I.V. in the first place? Much less, many, as he said?
 
no, you are the one who doesn't seem to get it. something certainly went wrong. but it wasn't just THAT night. what went wrong was Murray taking HUGE chances every night he gave Mike the Propofol -- not intubating him, not having backup in the form of a medical team AND equipment.

MURRAY WENT WRONG.

EDIT: in other words, if we're to believe this was happening for six weeks, then June 25th should have come much earlier.

thank you very much:clapping:
 
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I hate to burst your bubble but there are thousands of procedures throught the US where this drug is used and people are not intubated. You do not have to be a trained anesthesiologist to use the drug but you should know the side effects and have the proper equipment handy. I am relatively sure he was not intubated when he used it in Germany.

Something went wrong that night.

Murray obviously had no proper equipment there , and it was not only that night , that was the pattern since he was hired and if what you are saying is true , then why people question MJ when he told Lee his doctor told him it was safe as long as he was with him ?
MJ had every right to believe Murray if what you say is true .

one last thing 25 mg and even 50 mg were not enough to do anything to MJ, yes giving benzos before propofol means less propofol needed , sometimes 50% the amount given without benzos . but according to murray these benzos were not given minutes before propofol , the last one was given 3 hours before it , and it did not work if you believe him .


the guy lied about the dosage NO DOUBT . No way he only gave 25 or 50 mg that night .

and noway he used to give mj 50 mg only every night to go to sleep for 6 weeks .

keep in mind he said he gave lorazepam and midazolam only two days before mj's death to wean him off propofol , so according to him they were not part of the daily propofol thing . Not that I believe him ofcourse.
 
i don´t understand how this "doctor" can continue working he isn´t a ethic person!!
this world sometimes is crazy
 
no, you are the one who doesn't seem to get it. something certainly went wrong. but it wasn't just THAT night. what went wrong was Murray taking HUGE chances every night he gave Mike the Propofol -- not intubating him, not having backup in the form of a medical team AND equipment.

MURRAY WENT WRONG.

EDIT: in other words, if we're to believe this was happening for six weeks, then June 25th should have come much earlier.

Ok. Maybe you need to go to medical school to understand the drug more. You do NOT intubate everyone on this drug. You only intubate if you give a dose high enough to stop them from breathing which you WOULD do if you were giving them surgery as in the CNN video. That person was having surgery and you would need to give more.

I am not here to argue with you since you obviously don't understand how the drug works. It was used on Michael in Germany also when he was touring and as a singer I am sure he did not wish to be intubated during his tours.

I am not debating at all whether this drug is meant for home use. It is not. Not ever. Why Michael thought it was is not my business. Who told him that is not my business. He obviously thought it was a good drug because he used it in Germany for his concerts there. He didn't die in Germany.

I don't know what is your point except to not understand how the drug works.
 
propofol does not make you sleep , it puts you OUT and 25 mg nor 50 mg were enough to put mj or anyone else out , it was not even enough to sedate him

as for the other drugs who according to murray did not even put mj to sleep AT ALL . according to Dr.liar the last one was given THREE HOURS before propofol . it did not work immediatley but it worked three hours later !!!!!!!!!!1

I have said that Propofol is not a sleep medication so we agree.

I don't know if Michael slept at all that night. I was unfortunately here in my home and not there with him so I didn't see.
 
Murray obviously had no proper equipment there , and it was not only that night , that was the pattern since he was hired and if what you are saying is true , then why people question MJ when he told Lee his doctor told him it was safe as long as he was with him ?
MJ had every right to believe Murray if what you say is true .

keep in mind he said he gave lorazepam and midazolam only two days before mj's death to wean him off propofol , so according to him they were not part of the daily propofol thing . Not that I believe him ofcourse.

Lee did not give the name of the doctor who said that. I don't know what doctor she would have been referring to since that conversation supposedly took place many months before. This is of course if we are to believe Lee. I already questioned why would he call her after many months of not speaking to her if he had a doctor on staff and also had many other physician friends, such as Dr Klein.
 
Murray said MJ did not sleep at all before 10.40 am , I'm not the source for such info , it's murray . i don't believe mj was even alive at that time because calls were made To houston before that time ..

Beachlover I again got your point on the intubated part , OK CNN like everyone else in the media exaggerateed the whole thing , I read more about propofol , only small percentage VERY small percentage of people need oxygen masks or intubation . I found an article which completely support what you have said in that regard .

now , Kai and another chef who worked there in may said Murray would take two oxygen tanks every morning when he left the house and brought two when he came back .

was he giving him oxygen through a facial mask all the time he was giving him propofol ? or like with intubation only when the dose was high he needed oxygen ?
 
Lee did not give the name of the doctor who said that. I don't know what doctor she would have been referring to since that conversation supposedly took place many months before. This is of course if we are to believe Lee. I already questioned why would he call her after many months of not speaking to her if he had a doctor on staff and also had many other physician friends, such as Dr Klein.

Murray's girlfriend gave birth to their child 2 march 2009 in LA . Murray told investigators he arranged in march for MJ to be given propofol by Dr.Adams in Las Vegas .

Lee said MJ talked first about propofol at easter time . which means Murray was the doctor who was with MJ at the time and he was the doctor who told him it was safe as long as he was there to monitor him . the fact that murray ended up giving it to him means indeed he was the doctor who MJ was talking about .
 
Murray's girlfriend gave birth to their child 2 march 2009 in LA . Murray told investigators he arranged in march for MJ to be given propofol by Dr.Adams in Las Vegas .

Lee said MJ talked first about propofol at easter time . which means Murray was the doctor who was with MJ at the time and he was the doctor who told him it was safe as long as he was there to monitor him . the fact that murray ended up giving it to him means indeed he was the doctor who MJ was talking about .


I am not so sure. Michael also admitted that he had propofol before. So, why would Murray have to tell him that he was safe if he already taken it before and didn't die or suffer long-term effects. Also, if Michael hired him for the sole purpose of given him propofol, he didn't need Murray's blessings that it was safe, since he already hired him for that end.

As for Lee, I really cannot see why she would lie. She reported the propofol to the media before the LAPD. Before then, everyone was talking about painkillers and doctor shopping. Lee was the only person who stepped up and said this drug could be the thing that killed him and he was not shopping for drugs or doctors. Turns out everything she said was true.

So, even thought I have no clue about the phone call and that hot/cold feeling, Lee have so far proven to be telling the truth. She may had misinterpreted the situation, but I do not believe she would outright lie about it. Especially since I see no motive for he to lie about that detail.
 
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