Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option

[wendy2004]

I believe it's been said earlier by several members, but Propofol does not always require intubation, especially for short procedures like a colonoscopy, etc. I've had it and was not intubatged. But intubation and resuscitative equipment DOES need to be present. While it may be classified as an anesthetic, it doesn't exactly fall into the same catergory as something such as "inhaled" anesthetics PER SE. I use it virtually every day I work in a critical care setting. Frequently there is not a physician in the unit, much less an anesthesiologist, but they are "in house" and someone is always avaible. And there is always a crash cart with emergency meds and intubation equipment in the unit as well as patients being constantly monitored for b/p, O2 sat, hrt rate and resp rate, and alarms are always on and monitored at the central control panel as well as in each room.

With all that being said, nothing positive I can say about Murray by any stretch of the imagination. If the essential monitoring equipment was actually in use for Michael (with alarms enabled) and he had intubation equipment available, imo then it's still gross negligence at the minimum if he was not in the room or within earshot of the alarms; and if he did not call 911 immediately when he discovered Michael. As has been said before, the dispatchers could have been told the street name and the cross streets names and that it was Michael Jackson's home, surely someone in the dispatch/police dept could have determined the address somehow. And every physician is taught to intubate, nurses and respiratory therapists that are ACLS certified are taught to intubate, and if unable to intubate you resume manual hand/ambu bag ventilation. That is of course if the pt is capable of being resuscitated and it's not "too late".

:no:

Totally agree...all Murray had to do was be there and Michael would have had a fighting chance.

I'm not saying he did not use oxygen tanks, you said the police mentioned they found oxygen tanks at mj's house, when infact the police never said that, this info came from tabloids . murray left nothing associated with propofol in that bedroom , certainly no oxygen tanks ,if indeed there were oxygen tanks in that room or at least murray left them for the police to find them he would have claimed he used oxygen to revive him , all he claimed was CPR nothing more nothing less .

The info came from tabloids but confirmed by LaToya who specifically recalled (in a tabloid) that on the day of MJ's death she went to MJ's house afterwards and up to his room (or the room Murray used to put MJ "under"...there was some confusion about this) and saw oxygen tanks lined up against the wall.

Its actually very interesting that everything she said turned out to be true if you think about it. I mean.....she wasn't even involved for many months.

Sometimes everything turns out to be true becuz it's actually...the truth. Well done lies can turn out that way, too...just saying.

She certainly said everything the fans would want to hear. I find it particularly interesting that she was friends with someone within the home who was very close to Michael and she didn't want to say who it was (but of course if you paid attention, that person called her which they would know from phone records). Also, it was stated right in the search warrants that her records were not handed over right away.

Do you want to state WHY her records were not handed over right away? Or are you not aware?

Ramona, simply because someone died, I see every reason for someone to lie about something.

I'm not saying that she is, but did you ever get an uneasy feeling about something? She KNEW someone in that house

And she never hid the fact that she knew someone in the house. Murray knew someone working for Michael as well. That's how both Lee and Murray ended up working for Michael...thru referrals which happen every day. I'm interested to find out if they were both referred by the same person or different ppl.

Alvarez.

Here is a quote from TMZ

"Two detectives from the LAPD Robbery Homicide Division conducted the interview, and the insider says, "Investigators were very impressed and thankful that neither men have spoken with the media, nor will they. There are no plans at this point for a follow-up interview, but if necessary, both will gladly comply. Alvarez and Amir's only interest was telling investigators what they knew."

Alvarez and Amir were there the day that Michael Jackson died. Alvarez was in the room with Michael Jackson and Dr. Conrad Murray in the crucial moments before the ambulance arrived."

Why Alvarez and not Amir? Just curious why out of two people who was closely working with and assisting Michael, you gravitated towards one and not the other? Was it solely based on the fact that Alvarez was there the day MJ died and Amir was off the property?

 

[Ramona122003]

Alvarez.

Here is a quote from TMZ

"Two detectives from the LAPD Robbery Homicide Division conducted the interview, and the insider says, "Investigators were very impressed and thankful that neither men have spoken with the media, nor will they. There are no plans at this point for a follow-up interview, but if necessary, both will gladly comply. Alvarez and Amir's only interest was telling investigators what they knew."

Alvarez and Amir were there the day that Michael Jackson died. Alvarez was in the room with Michael Jackson and Dr. Conrad Murray in the crucial moments before the ambulance arrived."

No offense, but find something more creditable than TMZ. It has been proven too many times already that what they reported during those months is questionable.

For example, they were the ones who corrupted what drugs were found at Neverland to make it look like Michael was an addict and was taking propofol during this time frame. They were also the ones I confuse to talking about oxygen tanks found all over Michael's room. They also lied about the phone calls made by Murray on the 25. This shows TMZ has a habit of not telling the truth about certain things. Soundmind have already shown evident from the actual police warrant that Lee turn in her medical records in a timely fashion, so I do not see why you keep going back to TMZ to prove your point.

Also, you fail to explain what exactly is she lying about. You are saying because she knew what was going on even though she left months ago. That is not a valid reason simply because she said herself that Michael wanted someone to inject him with propofol and watch him.

If someone asked you for a dangerous drug and you did not completely convict them it was not safe and they suddenly died, wouldn't you wonder if it had something to do with that situation. Lee could had just used her common sense to conclude that propofol might had killed him. She stated herself that she suspected propofol, not that it was actually the cause.

You also fail to provide why you think Alvarez is linked to Lee and why does it matter. If Lee did have insider information, how does it effect her creditability? Also, what exactly does she actually gain if she is lying about something. To clear her name, doubtful. If she never gave him propofol, she would had mentioned the drug in the firs place.

So far, all your suspicions seems unfounded and half-bake.


Edit: Wendy, Toy's word should always be taken with a grain of salt. This is the same person that claimed Michael's handlers were given him drug to control his moods and manipulate him. She also claimed that Prince saw Murray trying to revive Michael, even though his cook said that didn't happen and the MTs said nothing about a child being in the room. She also claimed Michael only wanted 10 concerts, even though his contract had a min of 18. Also, her talking to any tabloid shows that she is not confident in her own statements if she was unwilling to go to the mainstream media and make these statements.

 

[wendy2004]

No offense, but find something more creditable than TMZ. It has been proven too many times already that what they reported during those months is questionable.

For example, they were the ones who corrupted what drugs were found at Neverland to make it look like Michael was an addict and was taking propofol during this time frame. They were also the ones I confuse to talking about oxygen tanks found all over Michael's room. They also lied about the phone calls made by Murray on the 25. This shows TMZ has a habit of not telling the truth about certain things. Soundmind have already shown evident from the actual police warrant that Lee turn in her medical records in a timely fashion, so I do not see why you keep going back to TMZ to prove your point.

Also, you fail to explain what exactly is she lying about. You are saying because she knew what was going on even though she left months ago. That is not a valid reason simply because she said herself that Michael wanted someone to inject him with propofol and watch him.

If someone asked you for a dangerous drug and you did not completely convict them it was not safe and they suddenly died, wouldn't you wonder if it had something to do with that situation. Lee could had just used her common sense to conclude that propofol might had killed him. She stated herself that she suspected propofol, not that it was actually the cause.

You also fail to provide why you think Alvarez is linked to Lee and why does it matter. If Lee did have insider information, how does it effect her creditability? Also, what exactly does she actually gain if she is lying about something. To clear her name, doubtful. If she never gave him propofol, she would had mentioned the drug in the firs place.

So far, all your suspicions seems unfounded and half-bake.


Edit: Wendy, Toy's word should always be taken with a grain of salt. This is the same person that claimed Michael's handlers were given him drug to control his moods and manipulate him. She also claimed that Prince saw Murray trying to revive Michael, even though his cook said that didn't happen and the MTs said nothing about a child being in the room. She also claimed Michael only wanted 10 concerts, even though his contract had a min of 18. Also, her talking to any tabloid shows that she is not confident in her own statements if she was unwilling to go to the mainstream media and make these statements.

Ramona, I know exactly what you mean. But I think her stating what she "claims" she saw with her own eyes might hold more weight over her "opinions" about MJ's handlers and all the other stuff. As for whether Prince went up to the room, for some reason I'm staying open to that. Not sure why, but I dunno. Kai could be mistaken. Kai said Murray ran down the stairs and asked for Prince. She also said in that same breath Murray asked her to get security. But I can't recall her ever saying if she actually went to get security or not. So I wonder, DID she actually go and get security? How far away was security? Were they close by to the point where she could be 100% sure about whether Prince went all the way up the stairs or not? Can't remember now where I read this but it had been said that MJ didn't particularly like security lingering inside the house becuz he liked his privacy and didn't want his kids to feel like they were under seige, for lack of a better description. If that's true, then it's possible Kai turned away for a bit to retrieve security and during that time Prince may have gone up and come back down. I don't know. It's just such an odd thing to make up and I can't think of why she would lie about seeing the oxygen tanks with her own eyes if they honestly weren't there. But I totally get you about the grain of salt. Taking heed indeed.:agree:

 

[CarinaT]

Karma my ass.

Pardon me.

 

[Beachlover]

No offense, but find something more creditable than TMZ. It has been proven too many times already that what they reported during those months is questionable.

For example, they were the ones who corrupted what drugs were found at Neverland to make it look like Michael was an addict and was taking propofol during this time frame. They were also the ones I confuse to talking about oxygen tanks found all over Michael's room. They also lied about the phone calls made by Murray on the 25. This shows TMZ has a habit of not telling the truth about certain things. Soundmind have already shown evident from the actual police warrant that Lee turn in her medical records in a timely fashion, so I do not see why you keep going back to TMZ to prove your point.

Also, you fail to explain what exactly is she lying about. You are saying because she knew what was going on even though she left months ago. That is not a valid reason simply because she said herself that Michael wanted someone to inject him with propofol and watch him.

If someone asked you for a dangerous drug and you did not completely convict them it was not safe and they suddenly died, wouldn't you wonder if it had something to do with that situation. Lee could had just used her common sense to conclude that propofol might had killed him. She stated herself that she suspected propofol, not that it was actually the cause.

You also fail to provide why you think Alvarez is linked to Lee and why does it matter. If Lee did have insider information, how does it effect her creditability? Also, what exactly does she actually gain if she is lying about something. To clear her name, doubtful. If she never gave him propofol, she would had mentioned the drug in the firs place.

So far, all your suspicions seems unfounded and half-bake.

Yes, I understand what you are saying and I have just come home from working 12 hours and have another tomorrow. I thought this was common knowledge about how Michael met Nurse Lee. I will have to find the article and post the link. It was not TMZ. The PHOTOS on the TMZ web sight show the oxygen tanks and the drug bottles. This was not a statement made by them but photographs of the police raid showing the prescription bottles with various names on them and the oxygen tanks were clearly seen in the photos as well in some storage room as well as water bottles and what I recognize as an oxygen concentrator (machine that is used for making oxygen out of room air that many people with breathing issues have at home)

Here is an interesting link to read:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/26/ijvm.01.html

In it you will read So just who is telling the truth? A critical witness might hold the key. He is itching to talk to cops. Alberto Alvarez, seen here on the Web site of the "U.K. Mirror," was the security guard who called 911.

The attorney for Mr. Alvarez says he has some important information about the June 25 timeline, and he says he wants to talk to police.
and later on in the conversation Tom, from an investigative perspective, you`ve got to help the coroner in getting information, and it seems like the cops in this case were thwarted from the beginning because of a lack of information.

RUSKIN: Right. It seems like they had trouble getting in touch with every single person who worked for Michael Jackson. One of the interesting people that I would want to speak to if I was running this investigation was the security guard, who seems like he wants to talk to cops. So I would get an understanding from his attorney, what he`s going to tell me, and if he tells me...

MORET: Why the -- why the heck is he in London and police haven`t talked to him? I don`t understand that.

RUSKIN: Well, I don`t either. And that`s one of the questions. If he wants to talk to cops, fly back to L.A. and speak to the cops.

But the cops have to speak to every single person in this case to put this timeline together to determine where Murray was. Was he on the phone? Was he doing something else? It`s all relevant to when Michael Jackson may have been in distress or in cardiac arrest.



This is from CNN and I just find it 'interesting' and food for thought as to why he would need an attorney and why he in fact left the country if he claimed he had things to tell the police.

There are just pieces of this that don't fit. Also, if you read this transcript regarding what the police did and did not do that day it fits into what I said LONG ago regarding the fact that the police let family an who knows who else onto the crime scene and that makes things suspect. Meaning, it trashes the scene. It was clear that LaToya had been in and out of the house and removed things. The police aren't going to report this because they don't want to look foolish but that is exactly what happened. The scene was not closed off quick enough and NO ONE should have been allowed to go in to the house and touch anything. Anyone in the staff could have removed anything they wanted and no one would have known.

Now you have a situation where you want to prosecute for murder and the crime scene was not protected.

When my aunt was visiting us from another state and she died of a heart attack in her sleep in our house, the police came IMMEDIATELY and we were not allowed to go upstairs to our rooms until the coroner came and cleared the 'scene'. She was a 92 year old woman who clearly died in her sleep but let me tell you, they did not let us near her and we were family living with her at the time.

This was Michael Jackson.

Regarding why Nurse Lee didn't hand over her records right away. It was the police and the patient just died. They were doing an investigation. So, no, I don't care what she said. I just know she didn't hand them over. As a nurse I know she had time to change her records during that time. I know how this works. I am a registered nurse. (Did she? I don't know.) I told everyone reading the other day to look up the "Myers Cocktail" that she was giving to MJ and the ingredients and the possible side effects but everyone is so focused on Murray no one can hear what I am saying.

To everyone reading here. I have NO DOUBT that Conrad Murray screwed up royally. There is no doubt in my mind that he is not telling the truth and he was a man in a panic because he was scared to death and it appears he was trying to cover his tracks.

There are just so many things we do not know.

Again, I never once said he was not guilty. I just see so many other things that look suspect to me that I am not so quick to point fingers in one direction and miss the forest looking for the tree.

 

[Ramona122003]

Yes, I understand what you are saying and I have just come home from working 12 hours and have another tomorrow. I thought this was common knowledge about how Michael met Nurse Lee. I will have to find the article and post the link. It was not TMZ. The PHOTOS on the TMZ web sight show the oxygen tanks and the drug bottles. This was not a statement made by them but photographs of the police raid showing the prescription bottles with various names on them and the oxygen tanks were clearly seen in the photos as well in some storage room as well as water bottles and what I recognize as an oxygen concentrator (machine that is used for making oxygen out of room air that many people with breathing issues have at home)

Here is an interesting link to read:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/26/ijvm.01.html

In it you will read So just who is telling the truth? A critical witness might hold the key. He is itching to talk to cops. Alberto Alvarez, seen here on the Web site of the "U.K. Mirror," was the security guard who called 911.

The attorney for Mr. Alvarez says he has some important information about the June 25 timeline, and he says he wants to talk to police.
and later on in the conversation Tom, from an investigative perspective, you`ve got to help the coroner in getting information, and it seems like the cops in this case were thwarted from the beginning because of a lack of information.

RUSKIN: Right. It seems like they had trouble getting in touch with every single person who worked for Michael Jackson. One of the interesting people that I would want to speak to if I was running this investigation was the security guard, who seems like he wants to talk to cops. So I would get an understanding from his attorney, what he`s going to tell me, and if he tells me...

MORET: Why the -- why the heck is he in London and police haven`t talked to him? I don`t understand that.

RUSKIN: Well, I don`t either. And that`s one of the questions. If he wants to talk to cops, fly back to L.A. and speak to the cops.

But the cops have to speak to every single person in this case to put this timeline together to determine where Murray was. Was he on the phone? Was he doing something else? It`s all relevant to when Michael Jackson may have been in distress or in cardiac arrest.



This is from CNN and I just find it 'interesting' and food for thought as to why he would need an attorney and why he in fact left the country if he claimed he had things to tell the police.

There are just pieces of this that don't fit. Also, if you read this transcript regarding what the police did and did not do that day it fits into what I said LONG ago regarding the fact that the police let family an who knows who else onto the crime scene and that makes things suspect. Meaning, it trashes the scene. It was clear that LaToya had been in and out of the house and removed things. The police aren't going to report this because they don't want to look foolish but that is exactly what happened. The scene was not closed off quick enough and NO ONE should have been allowed to go in to the house and touch anything. Anyone in the staff could have removed anything they wanted and no one would have known.

Now you have a situation where you want to prosecute for murder and the crime scene was not protected.

When my aunt was visiting us from another state and she died of a heart attack in her sleep in our house, the police came IMMEDIATELY and we were not allowed to go upstairs to our rooms until the coroner came and cleared the 'scene'. She was a 92 year old woman who clearly died in her sleep but let me tell you, they did not let us near her and we were family living with her at the time.

This was Michael Jackson.

Regarding why Nurse Lee didn't hand over her records right away. It was the police and the patient just died. They were doing an investigation. So, no, I don't care what she said. I just know she didn't hand them over. As a nurse I know she had time to change her records during that time. I know how this works. I am a registered nurse. (Did she? I don't know.) I told everyone reading the other day to look up the "Myers Cocktail" that she was giving to MJ and the ingredients and the possible side effects but everyone is so focused on Murray no one can hear what I am saying.

To everyone reading here. I have NO DOUBT that Conrad Murray screwed up royally. There is no doubt in my mind that he is not telling the truth and he was a man in a panic because he was scared to death and it appears he was trying to cover his tracks.

There are just so many things we do not know.

Again, I never once said he was not guilty. I just see so many other things that look suspect to me that I am not so quick to point fingers in one direction and miss the forest looking for the tree.

The crime scene was not the house Michael died in, it is his body. The condition he was in as well as the drugs that he took when he died are the key factor, not what was in the house. There were pill bottles scattered across the room Michael died in, but none of them were found in his body. Instead, everything was found in Murray's doctor's bag, which was hidden.

You could say drugs were planted inside it, but everything that Murray admitted to given Michael was found in this bag and Murray had made no moves to deny it. Even if the bag was consider tainted evident, the LAPD were able to track all the drugs in Michael's system to Murray because they know where he bought the drugs and the serial numbers. So, them closing off the crime scene is a moot point.

The aunt is not a good example because Michael was pronounced dead at the hospital, not at his home. While they were working on him for an hour, the 'crime scene' was already corrupted because his staff stood behind and they could had moved things. So, them closing off the house as soon as he died is moot.

Also, you say Lee may had a changed her records. May I ask, what did she change. Did she change the blood tests so Michael does not look like an addict? I think with the combination of the tox and the physical he took, they would be able to spot that.

You keep mentioning the side effects "Myers Cocktail". I have to ask, why is this a big thing. The cocktail didn't kill him, it is not illegal, and unlike Murray she is actually register give it, so why is this breaking news. Also, as you like to point out, this was months ago. Whatever side-effects this cocktail had would not be so drastic that it last for several months. Even if it did, how would it contribute to Michael's death, since it was the cocktail Murray gave him that killed him.

So, I do not see what Lee have to hide. Even if Lee gave Michael propofol she would not really be charge with anything serious, because Michael did not die.

 

[indranee]

Rude post. No comment.

huh? what's rude about it? yours was way more rude than mine.

I believe Murray is lying through his teeth. you seem to believe he's an angel who was done wrong.

we'll see who's right and who's wrong.

 

[indranee]

Yes, I understand what you are saying and I have just come home from working 12 hours and have another tomorrow. I thought this was common knowledge about how Michael met Nurse Lee. I will have to find the article and post the link. It was not TMZ. The PHOTOS on the TMZ web sight show the oxygen tanks and the drug bottles. This was not a statement made by them but photographs of the police raid showing the prescription bottles with various names on them and the oxygen tanks were clearly seen in the photos as well in some storage room as well as water bottles and what I recognize as an oxygen concentrator (machine that is used for making oxygen out of room air that many people with breathing issues have at home)

Here is an interesting link to read:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/26/ijvm.01.html

In it you will read So just who is telling the truth? A critical witness might hold the key. He is itching to talk to cops. Alberto Alvarez, seen here on the Web site of the "U.K. Mirror," was the security guard who called 911.

The attorney for Mr. Alvarez says he has some important information about the June 25 timeline, and he says he wants to talk to police.
and later on in the conversation Tom, from an investigative perspective, you`ve got to help the coroner in getting information, and it seems like the cops in this case were thwarted from the beginning because of a lack of information.

RUSKIN: Right. It seems like they had trouble getting in touch with every single person who worked for Michael Jackson. One of the interesting people that I would want to speak to if I was running this investigation was the security guard, who seems like he wants to talk to cops. So I would get an understanding from his attorney, what he`s going to tell me, and if he tells me...

MORET: Why the -- why the heck is he in London and police haven`t talked to him? I don`t understand that.

RUSKIN: Well, I don`t either. And that`s one of the questions. If he wants to talk to cops, fly back to L.A. and speak to the cops.

But the cops have to speak to every single person in this case to put this timeline together to determine where Murray was. Was he on the phone? Was he doing something else? It`s all relevant to when Michael Jackson may have been in distress or in cardiac arrest.



This is from CNN and I just find it 'interesting' and food for thought as to why he would need an attorney and why he in fact left the country if he claimed he had things to tell the police.

There are just pieces of this that don't fit. Also, if you read this transcript regarding what the police did and did not do that day it fits into what I said LONG ago regarding the fact that the police let family an who knows who else onto the crime scene and that makes things suspect. Meaning, it trashes the scene. It was clear that LaToya had been in and out of the house and removed things. The police aren't going to report this because they don't want to look foolish but that is exactly what happened. The scene was not closed off quick enough and NO ONE should have been allowed to go in to the house and touch anything. Anyone in the staff could have removed anything they wanted and no one would have known.

Now you have a situation where you want to prosecute for murder and the crime scene was not protected.

When my aunt was visiting us from another state and she died of a heart attack in her sleep in our house, the police came IMMEDIATELY and we were not allowed to go upstairs to our rooms until the coroner came and cleared the 'scene'. She was a 92 year old woman who clearly died in her sleep but let me tell you, they did not let us near her and we were family living with her at the time.

This was Michael Jackson.

Regarding why Nurse Lee didn't hand over her records right away. It was the police and the patient just died. They were doing an investigation. So, no, I don't care what she said. I just know she didn't hand them over. As a nurse I know she had time to change her records during that time. I know how this works. I am a registered nurse. (Did she? I don't know.) I told everyone reading the other day to look up the "Myers Cocktail" that she was giving to MJ and the ingredients and the possible side effects but everyone is so focused on Murray no one can hear what I am saying.

To everyone reading here. I have NO DOUBT that Conrad Murray screwed up royally. There is no doubt in my mind that he is not telling the truth and he was a man in a panic because he was scared to death and it appears he was trying to cover his tracks.

There are just so many things we do not know.

Again, I never once said he was not guilty. I just see so many other things that look suspect to me that I am not so quick to point fingers in one direction and miss the forest looking for the tree.

uhh, he IS innocent under the law. but he's highly suspicious

 

[wendy2004]

Yes, I understand what you are saying and I have just come home from working 12 hours and have another tomorrow. I thought this was common knowledge about how Michael met Nurse Lee. I will have to find the article and post the link. It was not TMZ. The PHOTOS on the TMZ web sight show the oxygen tanks and the drug bottles. This was not a statement made by them but photographs of the police raid showing the prescription bottles with various names on them and the oxygen tanks were clearly seen in the photos as well in some storage room as well as water bottles and what I recognize as an oxygen concentrator (machine that is used for making oxygen out of room air that many people with breathing issues have at home)

Here is an interesting link to read:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/26/ijvm.01.html

In it you will read So just who is telling the truth? A critical witness might hold the key. He is itching to talk to cops. Alberto Alvarez, seen here on the Web site of the "U.K. Mirror," was the security guard who called 911.

The attorney for Mr. Alvarez says he has some important information about the June 25 timeline, and he says he wants to talk to police.
and later on in the conversation Tom, from an investigative perspective, you`ve got to help the coroner in getting information, and it seems like the cops in this case were thwarted from the beginning because of a lack of information.

RUSKIN: Right. It seems like they had trouble getting in touch with every single person who worked for Michael Jackson. One of the interesting people that I would want to speak to if I was running this investigation was the security guard, who seems like he wants to talk to cops. So I would get an understanding from his attorney, what he`s going to tell me, and if he tells me...

MORET: Why the -- why the heck is he in London and police haven`t talked to him? I don`t understand that.

RUSKIN: Well, I don`t either. And that`s one of the questions. If he wants to talk to cops, fly back to L.A. and speak to the cops.

But the cops have to speak to every single person in this case to put this timeline together to determine where Murray was. Was he on the phone? Was he doing something else? It`s all relevant to when Michael Jackson may have been in distress or in cardiac arrest.



This is from CNN and I just find it 'interesting' and food for thought as to why he would need an attorney and why he in fact left the country if he claimed he had things to tell the police.

There are just pieces of this that don't fit. Also, if you read this transcript regarding what the police did and did not do that day it fits into what I said LONG ago regarding the fact that the police let family an who knows who else onto the crime scene and that makes things suspect. Meaning, it trashes the scene. It was clear that LaToya had been in and out of the house and removed things. The police aren't going to report this because they don't want to look foolish but that is exactly what happened. The scene was not closed off quick enough and NO ONE should have been allowed to go in to the house and touch anything. Anyone in the staff could have removed anything they wanted and no one would have known.

Now you have a situation where you want to prosecute for murder and the crime scene was not protected.

When my aunt was visiting us from another state and she died of a heart attack in her sleep in our house, the police came IMMEDIATELY and we were not allowed to go upstairs to our rooms until the coroner came and cleared the 'scene'. She was a 92 year old woman who clearly died in her sleep but let me tell you, they did not let us near her and we were family living with her at the time.

This was Michael Jackson.

Regarding why Nurse Lee didn't hand over her records right away. It was the police and the patient just died. They were doing an investigation.

And I firmly believe had it not been for her stepping forward there would have been NO investigation. This case would have been closed with a stamp of "celebrity overdose" with no specifics. And no one would have thought to check or even care about MJ using propofol becuz he was suspected to have been an addict when he died. The only reason the propofol use here was highlighted was becuz of Nurse Lee. It was so outrageous that even if police wanted to brush it under the rug, they couldn't. It was out there so they had to deal with it beyond their "addict" and "doctor shopping" points of view. And I don't think anyone, even Murray, suspected that propofol would have still been detected at all considering how quickly it normally passes thru the body....even tho he allegedly admitted to giving it to MJ in a police interview.

So, no, I don't care what she said. I just know she didn't hand them over. As a nurse I know she had time to change her records during that time. I know how this works. I am a registered nurse. (Did she? I don't know.) I told everyone reading the other day to look up the "Myers Cocktail" that she was giving to MJ and the ingredients and the possible side effects but everyone is so focused on Murray no one can hear what I am saying.

Again, if your scenario of her changing records took place, she could have done that well in advance of her coming forward and drawing attention to herself. Why wait until after she's had her face all over the place if she's as tricky as you believe her to be? And the reason she didn't automatically turn them over is becuz legally a subpoena/warrant is needed. She followed the law which I think was the best thing when it comes to entering those records into evidence if need be. And police had no problem getting those records once they got the proper paperwork. They were so lax with her that they offered her the chance to simply fax the records to them (so they wouldn't have to go and get them) but SHE insisted they come so she can put them in their hands. She did the right thing,imo. She, in no way, was uncooperative with police...except for not believing their idea that Michael was an addict; something she did not agree with having actually dealt with him in a medical capacity.

As for the Meyer's cocktail, you do realize she hadn't treated MJ since Mid-April? What I've read about it, side effects are rare, nothing life threatening and the treatment seems to be effective in many cases. Had she administered something life-threatening to Michael, odds are he wouldn't have been alive for Murray to screw him over, but that's only my opinion, of course. And again, IF...emphasis on IF...the last leaked autopsy report was valid, MJ was otherwise healthy and there was no indication that anything other than propofol and benzos contributed to MJ's death...which points it all back to Murray.

From the article you posted I'm still not clear why you chose Alvarez as opposed to Amir when linking Lee to someone in that house?


Edit: Agrees with Ramona's last post.

 

[Ramona122003]

And I firmly believe had it not been for her stepping forward there would have been NO investigation. This case would have been closed with a stamp of "celebrity overdose" with no specifics. And no one would have thought to check or even care about MJ using propofol becuz he was suspected to have been an addict when he died. The only reason the propofol use here was highlighted was becuz of Nurse Lee. It was so outrageous that even if police wanted to brush it under the rug, they couldn't. It was out there so they had to deal with it beyond their "addict" and "doctor shopping" points of view. And I don't think anyone, even Murray, suspected that propofol would have still been detected at all considering how quickly it normally passes thru the body....even tho he allegedly admitted to giving it to MJ in a police interview.




Again, if your scenario of her changing records took place, she could have done that well in advance of her coming forward and drawing attention to herself. Why wait until after she's had her face all over the place if she's as tricky as you believe her to be? And the reason she didn't automatically turn them over is becuz legally a subpoena/warrant is needed. She followed the law which I think was the best thing when it comes to entering those records into evidence if need be. And police had no problem getting those records once they got the proper paperwork. They were so lax with her that they offered her the chance to simply fax the records to them (so they wouldn't have to go and get them) but SHE insisted they come so she can put them in their hands. She did the right thing,imo. She, in no way, was no uncooperative with police...except for not believing their idea that Michael was an addict; something she did not agree with having actually dealt with him in a medical capacity.

As for the Meyer's cocktail, you do realize she hadn't treated MJ since Mid-April? What I've read about it, side effects are rare, nothing life threatening and the treatment seems to be effective in many cases. Had she administered something life-threatening to Michael, odds are he wouldn't have been alive for Murray to screw him over, but that's only my opinion, of course. And again, IF...emphasis on IF...the last leaked autopsy report was valid, there was no indication that anything other than propofol and benzos contributed to MJ's death...which points it all back to Murray.

From the article you posted I'm still not clear why you chose Alvarez as opposed to Amir when linking Lee to someone in that house?

Agreed, but you got some of your facts wrong, Wendy.


Although Lee did do a good thing about clearing up the whole drug addict/doctor shopping to the media, she actually did not help the police with the propofol charge. Murray admitted to given Michael propofol when the first interviewed him. So the LAPD already knew about the propofol before Lee spoke up. She only tipped the media early to what was going on. The LAPD was already on the case, so she did nothing to help in that way.

Also, Michael would not had been consider a drug addict when he died, because those other sedatives would had been found in his body. Which, he couldn't give himself and there was no pills found in his body. So, that painkiller line wouldn't fly since none were in his body. Neither was the giant cocktail everyone was expecting.

What she did do for the LAPD was give them Michael's blood tests that showed he was clean during the time she was with him. Lee affectedly cut the legs off of Murray ever saying that Michael was taken something from other doctors during this time period.

 

[wendy2004]

Agreed, but you got some of your facts wrong, Wendy.


Although Lee did do a good thing about clearing up the whole drug addict/doctor shopping to the media, she actually did not help the police with the propofol charge. Murray admitted to given Michael propofol when the first interviewed him. So the LAPD already knew about the propofol before Lee spoke up. She only tipped the media early to what was going on. The LAPD was already on the case, so she did nothing to help in that way.

I suppose bringing it to light in the media is the point I was going for becuz I truly believe they weren't going to really delve into propofol. It was too "out there" for a lot of ppl to believe. Think about it... Until Lee came forward had ANY of us heard anything about Murray giving Michael propofol? :nono: We heard about all kinds of drugs and foolishness for days. There were all kinds of "leaks" but none were about harmless little diprivan which Murray failed to tell paramedics about.

Also, Michael would not had been consider a drug addict when he died, because those other sedatives would had been found in his body. Which, he couldn't give himself and there was no pills found in his body.

True. But before the autopsy was done, it could have been easy for them to assume. Again, think about it. We had LMP and Chopra and Oxman all over the tube yelling about addictions and whatnot. And then we heard about all these pill bottles scattered in the room. How could they NOT suspect another celebrity overdose situation?

So, that painkiller line wouldn't fly since none were in his body. Neither was the giant cocktail everyone was expecting.

And I bet they were all looking at each other like WTF? The question is when they performed the toxicology tests, would they have honestly looked for propofol? Murray claimed he gave so little and it's supposed to leave the body quickly. Most of the medical folks I've heard discussing this issue say it's not something a coroner instantly looks for. But we'll agree to disagree on this bit. I don't trust the police too much in L.A. to give them full credit for being thorough without a lil help or force. No offense to any L.A. policemen on here. h34r:

What she did do for the LAPD was give them Michael's blood tests that showed he was clean during the time she was with him. Lee affectedly cut the legs off of Murray ever saying that Michael was taken something from other doctors during this time period.

True...but also Michael's body also proved this via his autopsy (if anyone believes the last report). She also helped Michael by showing he wasn't interested in propofol for any kind of high. It was solely for the purpose of "sleep"...and I use quotations becuz we know it's not really sleep. I think she also opened the door to us discovering it wasn't Michael's first time dealing with propfol. Sanjay Gupta got the jump on the police as far as giving the story credibility when he found Dr. Ratner. Beforehand, most ppl thought it was craziness. It makes me wonder if the police thought it was craziness, too and had planned to dismiss it.

 

[Ramona122003]

I suppose bringing it to light in the media is the point I was going for becuz I truly believe they weren't going to really delve into propofol. It was too "out there" for a lot of ppl to believe. Think about it... Until Lee came forward had ANY of us heard anything about Murray giving Michael propofol? :nono: We heard about all kinds of drugs and foolishness for days. There were all kinds of "leaks" but none were about harmless little diprivan which Murray failed to tell paramedics about.



True. But before the autopsy was done, it could have been easy for them to assume. Again, think about it. We had LMP and Chopra and Oxman all over the tube yelling about addictions and whatnot. And then we heard about all these pill bottles scattered in the room. How could they NOT suspect another celebrity overdose situation?



And I bet they were all looking at each other like WTF? The question is when they performed the toxicology tests, would they have honestly looked for propofol? Murray claimed he gave so little and it's supposed to leave the body quickly. Most of the medical folks I've heard discussing this issue say it's not something a coroner instantly looks for. But we'll agree to disagree on this bit. I don't trust the police too much in L.A. to give them full credit for being thorough without a lil help...or by force. No offense to any L.A. policemen on here. h34r:



True...but also Michael's body also proved this via his autopsy (if anyone believes the last report). She also helped Michael by showing he wasn't interested in propofol for any kind of high. It was solely for the purpose of "sleep"...and I use quotations becuz we know it's not really sleep. I think she also opened the door to us discovering it wasn't Michael's first time dealing with propfol. Sanjay Gupta got the jump on the police as far as giving the story credibility when he found Dr. Ratner. Beforehand, most ppl thought it was craziness. It makes me wonder if the police thought it was craziness, too and had planned to dismiss it.

I see where you are coming from, but the LAPD could not just dismiss anything. Especially when Murray himself admitted to given the propofol. It is in the warrants and the interview. If they did not follow up on it, heads would roll, especially since only sedatives was found in his body. So, they would had tested Michael for propofol because Murray claimed to have given it to him along with other drugs.

What Lee did was give those blood tests, although, Lee did not clear Michael's name. Even with propofol in the talks, many people still believed until the tox that Michael also took painkillers on top of Murray's cocktail. Which is why everyone was surprise to see no painkillers was in the tox and only the cocktail Murray gave him. The autopsy was an extra kick in the ass for many people because everyone had panned him as a long time drug addict and an anoxic. Which is why everyone said 'shock', Michael was healthy.

I also have strong reason to believe this autopsy report is true, because no one had rebutted it, unlike the last two reports.

 

[Beachlover]

huh? what's rude about it? yours was way more rude than mine.

I believe Murray is lying through his teeth. you seem to believe he's an angel who was done wrong.

we'll see who's right and who's wrong.

I never said he was an angel so you don't even read my posts correctly.

 

[Beachlover]

I suppose bringing it to light in the media is the point I was going for becuz I truly believe they weren't going to really delve into propofol. It was too "out there" for a lot of ppl to believe. Think about it... Until Lee came forward had ANY of us heard anything about Murray giving Michael propofol? :nono: We heard about all kinds of drugs and foolishness for days. There were all kinds of "leaks" but none were about harmless little diprivan which Murray failed to tell paramedics about.



True. But before the autopsy was done, it could have been easy for them to assume. Again, think about it. We had LMP and Chopra and Oxman all over the tube yelling about addictions and whatnot. And then we heard about all these pill bottles scattered in the room. How could they NOT suspect another celebrity overdose situation?



And I bet they were all looking at each other like WTF? The question is when they performed the toxicology tests, would they have honestly looked for propofol? Murray claimed he gave so little and it's supposed to leave the body quickly. Most of the medical folks I've heard discussing this issue say it's not something a coroner instantly looks for. But we'll agree to disagree on this bit. I don't trust the police too much in L.A. to give them full credit for being thorough without a lil help or force. No offense to any L.A. policemen on here. h34r:



True...but also Michael's body also proved this via his autopsy (if anyone believes the last report). She also helped Michael by showing he wasn't interested in propofol for any kind of high. It was solely for the purpose of "sleep"...and I use quotations becuz we know it's not really sleep. I think she also opened the door to us discovering it wasn't Michael's first time dealing with propfol. Sanjay Gupta got the jump on the police as far as giving the story credibility when he found Dr. Ratner. Beforehand, most ppl thought it was craziness. It makes me wonder if the police thought it was craziness, too and had planned to dismiss it.

Regarding the Propofol, Murray freely admitted this and the bottles were in his bag which he freely told them where it was. I would think any doctor would not leave his bag out in the open with medications in it.

Wendy, this WAS a celebrity overdose situation. So, yes, they would have looked for Propofol because it was in his bag and he also admitted giving it.

 

[Beachlover]

The crime scene was not the house Michael died in, it is his body. The condition he was in as well as the drugs that he took when he died are the key factor, not what was in the house. There were pill bottles scattered across the room Michael died in, but none of them were found in his body. Instead, everything was found in Murray's doctor's bag, which was hidden.

You could say drugs were planted inside it, but everything that Murray admitted to given Michael was found in this bag and Murray had made no moves to deny it. Even if the bag was consider tainted evident, the LAPD were able to track all the drugs in Michael's system to Murray because they know where he bought the drugs and the serial numbers. So, them closing off the crime scene is a moot point.

The aunt is not a good example because Michael was pronounced dead at the hospital, not at his home. While they were working on him for an hour, the 'crime scene' was already corrupted because his staff stood behind and they could had moved things. So, them closing off the house as soon as he died is moot.

Also, you say Lee may had a changed her records. May I ask, what did she change. Did she change the blood tests so Michael does not look like an addict? I think with the combination of the tox and the physical he took, they would be able to spot that.

You keep mentioning the side effects "Myers Cocktail". I have to ask, why is this a big thing. The cocktail didn't kill him, it is not illegal, and unlike Murray she is actually register give it, so why is this breaking news. Also, as you like to point out, this was months ago. Whatever side-effects this cocktail had would not be so drastic that it last for several months. Even if it did, how would it contribute to Michael's death, since it was the cocktail Murray gave him that killed him.

So, I do not see what Lee have to hide. Even if Lee gave Michael propofol she would not really be charge with anything serious, because Michael did not die.

I beg to differ here. The crime scene WAS in the house and his body is not the only part that needs to be investigated. If it were there would be no need to investigate the drugs, the bottles, the pharmacies, etc. It would be a slam dunk case. The house should have been contained. That was an error on the part of the police. The bags that the Propofol were in, the syringes used for injection would all play a part in the investigation but if they were handled they are not reliable any longer.

Example: I could tell you that I had a pulse oximeter there and just because it is missing does not mean it was not originally there. Now you have no proof where it is or who could have taken it out of the room.

If the Fire Dept Rescue found that he was in fact long dead when they got there it would be their responsibility also to alert police to this instead of telling the news. If you went to a home and the person was obviously dead for hours would you not think this was criminal?

I understand that Nurse Lee states that she had not treated Michael in months. I get what she 'said' happened. I also know they called her just days before with medical questions when Michael had a doctor on staff there and also had other doctors in his close circle of friends he could have called, so why call a nutritionist that was treating you many months before and who had to look up Propofol in the Physicians Desk Reference?

Anything could have been changed. Dates, mode of treatment, etc. I have no idea what was in the records she had and she did not do a toxicology seriology; she did basic blood tests. She can not change those because they come from a laboratory.

I am simply putting more ideas into your heads to think outside of the box that everyone wants to think in. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it is true.

Note: I did not choose Alvarez, I read that. I will have to find the link later of the source. (off to work)

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

And I firmly believe had it not been for her stepping forward there would have been NO investigation. This case would have been closed with a stamp of "celebrity overdose" with no specifics. And no one would have thought to check or even care about MJ using propofol becuz he was suspected to have been an addict when he died. The only reason the propofol use here was highlighted was becuz of Nurse Lee. It was so outrageous that even if police wanted to brush it under the rug, they couldn't. It was out there so they had to deal with it beyond their "addict" and "doctor shopping" points of view. And I don't think anyone, even Murray, suspected that propofol would have still been detected at all considering how quickly it normally passes thru the body....even tho he allegedly admitted to giving it to MJ in a police interview.

It really makes you wonder how closely they would've looked at propofol without Nurse Lee coming forward. (Regardless of Murray mentioning it.) I'm grateful that she came forward. She was bold about it too, which *to me* seemed to indicate that she was both sincere, and was also really worried that propofol was what eventually killed him. Turns out, she was right!

Again, if your scenario of her changing records took place, she could have done that well in advance of her coming forward and drawing attention to herself. Why wait until after she's had her face all over the place if she's as tricky as you believe her to be?

I don't believe for one second that Nurse Lee changed records or withheld turning them over. Doesn't make any sense, especially since she came forward in such a public way. She could've avoided ALL scrutiny had she not done that.

And the reason she didn't automatically turn them over is becuz legally a subpoena/warrant is needed. She followed the law which I think was the best thing when it comes to entering those records into evidence if need be. And police had no problem getting those records once they got the proper paperwork. They were so lax with her that they offered her the chance to simply fax the records to them (so they wouldn't have to go and get them) but SHE insisted they come so she can put them in their hands. She did the right thing,imo. She, in no way, was uncooperative with police...except for not believing their idea that Michael was an addict; something she did not agree with having actually dealt with him in a medical capacity.

Agreed. :yes:

From the article you posted I'm still not clear why you chose Alvarez as opposed to Amir when linking Lee to someone in that house?

I don't get that either. :scratch:

I also don't understand why simply knowing someone in MJ's employ, would automatically make you suspect in some way.

 

[sweet princess]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray -- Propofol Still An Option

this is sick. i just don't know what to think anymore. what a circus.

Don't feel bad, I feel the same way, I wonder if there will ever be justice for Michael-_-:smilerolleyes:

 

[Soundmind]

Soundmind, I am impressed at your research and explanations. I had work today and just caught up. The Search Warrant is only going to mention the things that specifically pertain to the search in regards to what Murray said. They spoke for a long time and only a short summary was written so we don't know the whole story either.

Regarding the oxygen. Oxygen tanks were found in Neverland during that police raid. Pill bottles with various names on them were found too.

I don't know how to multi reference so I have to write several answers.

the search warrant thing may apply to whether they found the oximeter or not , but not whether murray used oxygen that night , what he did that night was there in the search warrant. they mentioned the drugs he gave, how he gave them , the amounts , the timing , how he monitored mj that night using an oximeter , and then how he find him breathless and tried to revive him with CPR and flumazeniel no mention of oxygen at all . that's what Murray's said , these were his statements not the invetstigators statement .

as for the oxygen tanks at neverland :MJ had 69 employees at Neverland some even living there with their families , is it really hard to believe someone suffered from some kind of chronic inflammation of the lungs like asthma or whatever , even mj suffered from chronic inflammation .the man had a small fire department there , why wouldn't he have oxygen tanks alo there .

as for the drugs I already explained that , these pics were of drugs recovered from every place in that ranch . none of them had MJ's name on it . Two were linked to Grace found at the library , but grace had also lupus , so it's not hard to believe there were for her not for mj . two of them were empty bottles written to employees at the ranch none of them found in his bedroom , and two to Frank tyson , he was also living there . we don't know when they were prescribed , most of them empty ,mj was not even at neverland at the time. they found xtacy and mariuana in a jar in the kitchen , even sneddon did not dare and say they belonged to mj .
a better question would have been why none of these bottles were tested for finger prints ? well, the answer would be sneddon was not sure they even belonged to mj . It was a smear campaign , some idiots would have believed whatever sneddon said like the description matched because we found a spot on a leopard skin .

 

[Soundmind]

Totally agree...all Murray had to do was be there and Michael would have had a fighting chance.



The info came from tabloids but confirmed by LaToya who specifically recalled (in a tabloid) that on the day of MJ's death she went to MJ's house afterwards and up to his room (or the room Murray used to put MJ "under"...there was some confusion about this) and saw oxygen tanks lined up against the wall.

the house and Murray's car were impound immediately after M was pronounced dead . she went there after the police released the house to the family . oxygen tanks would have been removed if they were found in his bedroom immediately along with all the meds the investigators found bedside mj's bed .

let's assume the investigators were stupid assholes and did not bother with the oxygen tanks and it was super girl Latoya who found them and reported them to the investigator , her boyfriend and manager Jeffer Phillips HANDED Personally the two bags of HEROINE (marijuana) along with 11 bottles of temazepam to the investigators . and the investigators came back and seized 'bleaching creams' and glaucoma meds ( I re read the search warrant th investigators did not seize these also , jeffere handed them)...etc the very next day 26 June , we saw the discovery no mention of oxygen tanks at all . they recovered bag of cigarette but left behind oxygen tanks , GIVE ME A BREAK .

Latoya is a pathological liar, she can't help it, she has to lie , it is simply in her blood to exaggerate and lie .

 

[Ramona122003]

the house and Murray's car were impound immediately after M was pronounced dead . she went there after the police released the house to the family . oxygen tanks would have been removed if they were found in his bedroom immediately along with all the meds the investigators found bedside mj's bed .

let's assume the investigators were stupid assholes and did not bother with the oxygen tanks and it was super girl Latoya who found them and reported them to the investigator , her boyfriend and manager Jeffer Phillips HANDED Personally the two bags of HEROINE (marijuana) along with 11 bottles of temazepam to the investigators . and the investigators came back and seized 'bleaching creams' and glaucoma meds ...etc the very next day 26 June , we saw the discovery no mention of oxygen tanks at all . they recovered bag of cigarette but left behind oxygen tanks , GIVE ME A BREAK .

Latoya is a pathological liar, she can't help it, she has to lie , it is simply in her blood to exaggerate and lie .

I have been wondering why Toy's manager gave those drugs to investigators. Did they really find it at the house or was it part of the push the family was making to show Michael was an addict. If so, what was the important of mentioning oxygen tanks?

 

[Gugu_134]

Let me tell you a story. In my country there is a man who is insane and he kills people by runing them over with a car. He has killed what 5 people and he still has his driving license and he still kills people. It reminds me of Devil Murray, he is a killer and he still has his weapon...I so wish he would go to jail!

 

[Soundmind]

I have been wondering why Toy's manager gave those drugs to investigators. Did they really find it at the house or was it part of the push the family was making to show Michael was an addict. If so, what was the important of mentioning oxygen tanks?

she mentioned oxygen tanks only after the cook before Kai mentioned he saw murray's with oxygen tanks . before that she had never talked about oxygen tanks, whenever an 'exclusive' is published somewhere she runs to confirm it , it only means money to her . she felt it was very important to deliever the 'bleaching cream ' and the 'glaucoma med " ( Haleprin comes to mind) but not many oxygen tanks . :smilerolleyes:

 

[Ramona122003]

she mentioned oxygen tanks only after the cook before Kai mentioned he saw murray's with oxygen tanks . before that she had never talked about oxygen tanks, whenever an 'exclusive' is published somewhere she runs to confirm it , it only means money to her . she felt it was very important to deliever the 'bleaching cream ' and the 'glaucoma med " ( Haleprin comes to mind) but not many oxygen tanks . :smilerolleyes:

Maybe so, but what does the HEROINE (marijuana) along with 11 bottles of temazepam have to do with confirming anything? I do not remember anyone mentioning Michael being on either of these.

Although, it is a real shame that Toy would sell her brother in this way, if what you is true.

 

[Soundmind]

Regarding the Propofol, Murray freely admitted this and the bottles were in his bag which he freely told them where it was. I would think any doctor would not leave his bag out in the open with medications in it.

Wendy, this WAS a celebrity overdose situation. So, yes, they would have looked for Propofol because it was in his bag and he also admitted giving it.

excuse me, Murray did not say he gave propofol when it really mattered , ACCORDING TO HIM MJ was still ALIVE when the paramedics arrivd and according to him HE WAS ALIVE when he was removed to the hospital , when it mattered he did not say he gave midazolam, valium, lidocaine and propofol .


He admitted he gave propofol after he disappeared for two days and lawyered up , he came to say I gave propfol because he knew the bag HE HID at the house would be sooner or later discovered and he would be busted , he was also afraid of someone like Dr.Adams coming , and the other doctor he tried to get in Houston . He knew people would talk about it sooner or later .

why did he hide everything but LORAZEPAM first ? why midazolam, propofol, lidocaine were all hidden ?

there is a big difference between freely admitting and had no choice BUT TO ADMIT .

 

[Soundmind]

MJ's swollen hands were always presented as evidence by many as a clear sign he was taking heroine. what is interesting is they were marijuana not heroine but Latoya told investigators it was heroine . after mj's death we knew his own family were the sources bahind these rumours . there is nothing to confirm or refute anymore , they exposed themselves after his death .

 

[twinklEE]

MJ's swollen hands were always presented as evidence by many as a clear sign he was taking heroine. what is interesting is they were marijuana not heroine but Latoya told investigators it was heroine . after mj's death we knew his own family were the sources bahind these rumours . there is nothing to confirm or refute anymore , they exposed themselves after his death .

yet the wholy family can do nothing wrong.
Gotta make this clear I'm not judging the whole family, just the majority of them got no dignity.
Expect for Jackie, Rebbie, Mrs. Katherine and maybe even Tito others have proven themselves.

 

[Ramona122003]

MJ's swollen hands were always presented as evidence by many as a clear sign he was taking heroine. what is interesting is they were marijuana not heroine but Latoya told investigators it was heroine . after mj's death we knew his own family were the sources bahind these rumours . there is nothing to confirm or refute anymore , they exposed themselves after his death .

But what about the 11 bottles of temazepam?

 

[Soundmind]

sorry they were 12 bottles of temazepam , I don't know . I know one thing the detectives said they recovered temazepam bottle prescribed by murray for MJ the day mj died 25 une , they were beside his bed .

these 12 drugs were mentioned in the recovery list of 26 june search warrant . they clearly mention they were not seized by investigators but were delievered by jeffer phillips. no mention of them at all in the search warrant to raid Houston's office nor Vegas office, and not even applied pharamcy .

so clearly for the investigators there's alot of doubt over these particular bottles . they listed everything prescribed by klien, metzeger and murray but no mention of these bottles . we will have to wait and see . I doubt they would have ignored mentioning them in the search warrants if they indeed believed they were found there in the first place.

I don't think they would be admitted as evidence anyway.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

i do wonder why latoyas manager goes running to the police saying we found heroin. what idiot would do that unless of course it was ment. lets say u find it there and go "shit we cant let ppl find out about this even if its not mjs we know what the media will do lets make it disapear" any normal person would prob do that. but the fact it wasnt even heroine to start with yet they go to the police saying they think it is. what the heck does that say about what they thought mj was doing. ive come to the conclussion thefamily were clueless about mjs life and prob believed half the crap the tabloids wrote about it. hardly ever saw him and prob had less contact with him than most of his fan base

 

[Soundmind]

i do wonder why latoyas manager goes running to the police saying we found heroin. what idiot would do that unless of course it was ment. lets say u find it there and go "shit we cant let ppl find out about this even if its not mjs we know what the media will do lets make it disapear" any normal person would prob do that. but the fact it wasnt even heroine to start with yet they go to the police saying they think it is. what the heck does that say about what they thought mj was doing. ive come to the conclussion thefamily were clueless about mjs life and prob believed half the crap the tabloids wrote about it. hardly ever saw him and prob had less contact with him than most of his fan base

:clapping: thank you