[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I knew it was something not right about this case i am glad the Estate is filing a appeal their should imo. Wade was giving 3 chances to go back and amend his case no way should Wade civil case against MJ companies survive a demurrer and looking at the law in this thread it does not support Wade case. Like it was mention in the thread the court system is corrupted Statute of Limitations should have ended this case along time ago should have never gotting this far.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

First of all as respect have explained Quincy Jones case has nothing to do with Robson. They are totally irrelevant to each other.

I was wondering about the appeal in the probate case this week. Since Marzano said they would appeal but we haven't heard anything about that, so I wondered if we just haven't heard about it because it's in another court or they gave up appeal? For how long they can file an appeal in the probate case?

I'm not quite sure as it changes by the court. I believe time is 1-3 months after they are served with the judge's ruling. I think that time has passed - but I can't be 100% sure.

Re. the demurrer appeal: so if the appeal of the Estate is accepted the case is over? If it isn't then it goes on to summary jugdement where it still can be dismissed?

yes

Thanks ivy. So any real chance of a win at appeal or is it just going through the motions,literally!

Well chances of winning an appeal is low - about 20%- but it is possible. Do you think they have a case and Beckloff made a mistake?

There are several possible arguments here. for example Norma Staikos having "some power". Judge at the moment accepted it and said the level of control needs to be determined beyond demurrer. But it's also a fact that MJ 100% owned the companies. So even from a legal standpoint it can be argued and accepted that although MJ gave Staikos and other people some autonomy, at the end of the day they couldn't force anything he didn't want on him. He was the owner.

Regardless of win or loss, this shows us that Estate will try any and all opportunities to dismiss this case.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy it a small chance but the Estate need to take it could be a chance that this case will be dismiss if the judge except the appeal. The Estate has some pretty good arguments on their side to try to get this case dismiss. Like it say that Norma had some power and if the judge was basic his decision on that then Beckloff made a mistake and the Estate should challenge because this should not have survive a demurrer. If this was not accept by Beckloff this case would have been over and dismiss. Wade was give 3 chance to amend his case.

This case was allow to more on now Wade had to prove that someone was aware or had a reason to know that this was going on and did nothing about it so Wade now is suing the companies so far Wade has yet to prove this. The Estate can also argued that MJ was 100% the owner of his companies and not the companies own MJ. Like i said it a small chance their have got to try it. I like the way the Estate is not backing down this need to end and i am hoping this judge will grant the Estate the appeal so we can move on.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I also think Beckloff made a big mistake and they have a case. Glad they're appealing. Very glad.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Judges aren't infallible so lets hope that's the case. It would be interesting to read the appeal. Will that be possible or would that be kept sealed?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It should be read we know what Wade and his lawyers are trying to do and that is to sue the companies and the Estate want the case dismiss because it should not have survive the demurrer and judge may have made the wrong decision.

What do you say Ivy will it be read or seal?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

12/24/2015 Order - Other (DENYING THE PETN OF JAMES SAFECHUCK FOR ORDER ALLOWING FILING OF LATE CLAIM AGAINST THE ESTATE OF MICHAEL J. JACKSON )
Filed by Court
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This is the old ruling ?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Shoot, I thought it was new ruling:-(
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Still..it's a nice Christmas present though.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Look like we will not hear anything until next year.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The Estate filed a demurrer against Safechuck's complaint in the civil case. Ivy posted it on her website: http://www.scribd.com/doc/294314370/MJ-Estate-Safechuck-Demurrer

To summarize they basically make the same arguments we have discussed here before.

- Safechuck's allegation that the Companies engaged in sexual abuse is not viable since companies cannot commit sexual abuse.
The Estate also shows through precedents that companies cannot be held vicariously liable for what their agents were allegedly doing outside of the scope of their agency.

- They point out that MJJ Ventures didn't even exist at the time:

"During the time period in which Safechuck alleges he was molested, Safechuck had no legal relationship whatsoever to the Corporations. In fact, one of the Corporations, MJJ Ventures, did not even exist until February 1991 - yet Safechuck repeatedly and frivolously alleges that it somehow engaged in various acts years before its existence. In short, the complaint never explains why the Corporations owed Safechuck a duty of care at all, much less a fiduciary duty. The complaint never alleges what "duty" the Corporations supposedly owed him, i.e., what is it that Safechuck alleges that the Corporations, as such, should have done or not done? Why did the Corporations owe Safechuck, in particular, a duty of care when they had no relationship with him during the relevant period time?"

- The negligence claims against the companies fail because Safechuck cannot and does not allege a duty of care and its breach. In his complaint Safechuck just makes the general statement that the companies owed him a duty of care that they breached but does not make any specific claim about how or about what the companies should or should not have done. As precedent cases show such general statements are not enough, the plaintiff has to be specific about what he alleges the defendants did or did not do. And unlike Robson, Safechuck cannot even allege that he was brought to the country by the companies or that he was employed by them when he was allegedly abused.

- They again point out that the companies did not have the power to hire or supervise MJ as he was their founder and sole owner.

- Safechuck's allegations of the companies breaching fiduciary duty that they allegedly owed him fail because there was no fiduciary relationship between him and the companies.

LOL @ Safechuck claiming the companies took him from his parents:

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- Then they go on to the argument also used in the Robson case that for a company to be liable for the actions committed by an employee, agent etc. it has to know/have a reason to know and has to have control over that person to be able to implement safeguards.
Also: "The child must be exposed to the perpetrator as an inherent part of the environment created by the relationship between the perpetrator and the third party."

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They react to the claims regarding Staikos (which is also relevant in Robson's case):

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Next hearing is scheduled on March 22.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The estate are doing an excellent job here. I don't think Safechuck has any chance here and his claims are ridiculous.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thanks respect
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So on March 22 we can get a ruling about the Estate appeal right?

It really time for this to end there is nowhere else this case can go all of this backward and forward is a waste of time the judge need to dismiss this there is no case here.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So on March 22 we can get a ruling about the Estate appeal right?

no that's the hearing date. ruling will come later.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They react to the claims regarding Staikos (which is also relevant in Robson's case):

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Next hearing is scheduled on March 22.


Unexpectedly arrived with a boy??? WTF? Which boy arrived there unexpectedly?
And when was security removed from around the house?
And what exactly would that accomplish?
Did MJ want to make himself suspicious like hey I'm hiding here something I don't want you guys to see
not that you can come in to my room but anyway get away from my house.
Not even Sneddon tried to make such an idiotic claim.

Anyway, didn't the Estate forget to including the biggest reason why Safechuck's claim is BS?
That there was no reason to know of any sexual abuse, they can't even claim the 1993 case in Safechuck's case.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Unexpectedly arrived with a boy??? WTF? Which boy arrived there unexpectedly?
And when was security removed from around the house?
And what exactly would that accomplish?
Did MJ want to make himself suspicious like hey I'm hiding here something I don't want you guys to see
not that you can come in to my room but anyway get away from my house.
Calm down. This is what Safechuck said happened and this is what they're addressing.
And it sounds like they're just addressing his claim she had control of Michael here, not the reason to know of prior abuse.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Calm down. This is what Safechuck said happened and this is what they're addressing

I know that. It's just this is the first time I saw this particular bullshit claim and it's utterly ridiculous. I wonder which guard invented this.
Charlie Michaels or Ralph Chacon or they got it from their usual source, Victor Gutierrez.
 
It's off topic but related a bit. I just saw this on Billboard. It's the same law firm that represents Robson/Safechuck. Well, this is their actual field: copyright issues.

[h=1]Spotify Threatened With Another Class-Action Lawsuit As Disputes Over Royalties Intensify[/h] 12/31/2015 by Ed Christman


<figure class="main-media">
spotify-hallway-2-billboard-650.jpg
<figcaption class="main-media__details"> A woman walks through a hallway at Spotify offices following a press conference in New York City.
Mario Tama/Getty Images
</figcaption> </figure> [h=2][/h] A class-action lawsuit recently filed against Spotify by Michelman & Robinson, LLP on behalf of Cracker frontman and college professor David Lowery will soon have company, Billboard has learned. The law firm of Gradstein & Marzanno -- itself in the midst of litigation on behalf of the Turtles against Sirius XM and Pandora -- will file its own class-action suit.


This new suit will make similar claims as Lowery and Michelman's, alleging that the subscription service is not fully licensed for some of the music it offers subscribers, and that the company is not issuing complete royalty payments. One source counters that additional lawsuits won&#8217;t add to Spotify&#8217;s problems because the company's potential liability remains the same regardless. As well, class-action lawsuits are difficult to implement and maintain, especially in instances where similar suits are ongoing in parallel. The law firm was unavailable for comment.


"We would look to see what crossover there was" with any parallel actions, says Mona Hanna, co-lead counsel on the Lowery/Michelman & Robinson case. &#8220;This is not a turf war. It is about protecting the industry and the artists. Let's get this issue resolved.&#8221;


The major labels could add to the drama by threatening their own cases against the company as leverage in licensing negotiations. And while Spotify may be the service under fire, all interactive streaming services are at risk on this issue, including Rhapsody, Rdio, Amazon Prime and Apple Music. To that end, sources tell Billboard a similar lawsuit is being prepared against a competing company.


For its part, Spotify is betting that settlement talks currently underway with National Music Publishers&#8217; Assn. (NMPA), and the company's announcement of plans to build a publishing administration system, will placate music publishers and songwriters. The NMPA settlement would allow publishers to claim payments for monies owed to them by Spotify in exchange for waiving any legal claims they might have against the music service over copyright infringement or copyright non-compliance. Any money remaining at the end of the process would likely be divided between the participants by market share. The proposal could also result in a code of best practices intended to plug any holes in royalty distribution going forward, as well as bolstering Spotify's plans for a music publishing database with the aid of the NMPA and other collection organizations.


An executive involved in the negotiations contends that the class-action suits won&#8217;t impact the NMPA talks. &#8220;Remember, there was a class-action lawsuit against YouTube," that executive tells Billboard. "When the NMPA reached a settlement with YouTube [in 2011], most music publishers opted in instead of pursuing the class action lawsuit, which was eventually dismissed."


At least one company will not participate, believing they can secure better remuneration for their songwriters through an independent deal. At press time, only Warner/Chappell Music had been confirmed to be opting out of the negotiations and going its own way on the issue. Sources suggest that the major's choice to opt out of the NMPA settlement is directly tied into the current licensing negotiations between the three majors and Spotify.
A major issue in negotiations between Spotify and the three majors is the service's free tier, which pays one-seventh as much per stream as its paid tier. Some would like to see the free tier eliminated; others say they will work with the free tier, but will demand a bigger minimum payment this round.
&#8220;These lawsuits... increase negotiating leverage over rates on the free tier,&#8221; says one major label executive. Another executive counters that Spotify's leverage increases with its revenue, which continues to rise.

The major labels are fully committed to interactive streaming services -- with paid subscribers -- as the industry&#8217;s future. Warner Music Group's second quarter saw streaming overtake downloads as its central source of digital revenue, and companies don&#8217;t want to short-circuit that growth by engaging in damaging lawsuits against the services. If Spotify were to be held fully liable for each copyright infraction, it could trigger mutually assured destruction, according to one industry participant.


Many in the industry were well aware that a problem with improper licensing and royalty payments existed, but it wasn't until Audiam began matching master recording royalty payment statements against music publishing payment statements that the true extent of the problem became obvious. Depending on who is talking, between 10 to 25 percent of songs interactive on services like Spotify are not properly licensed and/or not distributing royalty payments. Sources tell Billboard that Spotify owes music publishers and songwriters around $25 million, however another estimate puts that figure at $17 million.


"We are committed to paying songwriters and publishers every penny," said Spotify global head of communications and public policy Jonathan Prince in a statement on Monday's news of David Lowery's filing. "Unfortunately, especially in the United States, the data necessary to confirm the appropriate rights holders is often missing, wrong, or incomplete. When rights holders are not immediately clear, we set aside the royalties we owe until we are able to confirm their identities&#8230;&#8221;

But many take issue with that assessment, contending Spotify and other interactive services knew they had a problem from the beginning but ignored it and did not build the proper systems to manage licensing.


&#8220;Spotify blames everyone but Spotify for its infringement, non-payment and non-compliance,&#8221; says Audiam founder and CEO Jeff Price. &#8220;Its rationale appears to be [that] everyone else caused Spotify to infringe on music as all of us don&#8217;t have the 'data.' This is a misleading statement. First, Spotify does not need to know who wrote a song to determine if a composition is licensed. If Spotify does not know who wrote the song, then it most likely doesn't have a license. Therefore, don&#8217;t use the song.&#8221; Price points out that Audiam has supplied data to the catalogs that it administers and it still is not being properly paid by Spotify.


&#8220;The real issue is that Spotify built limited-to-no systems to get licenses, accept data and make payments,&#8221; Price complains. &#8220;It took the world&#8217;s music without, in many cases, knowing whose music it was, and used it with no licenses and without making payments, similar in many ways to the original Napster.&#8221;


Sanford L. Michelman of Michelman & Robinson LLP makes a similar argument. &#8220;The underlying issue is Spotify has a business model that is catch-as-catch-can,&#8221; he says. &#8220;If you are going to take a songwriter's work, then get the permission to do it. It's not a system where if you catch me without permission, [Spotify] will pacify you with some more dollars.&#8221; It's not supposed to be about the songwriter catching the service with its hand in the cookie jar, he says. Mona Hanna tells Billboard that the firm's case "is designed with the express purpose of protecting artists' rights and hoping that this result in a change in how Spotify operates."


Concurrently, Spotify has apparently settled with Another Victory (an Audiam client), the publishing arm of Chicago-based hard rock label Victory Records, as the publisher's songs are now available to stream on Spotify. Price says the service is still playing hardball with his company, however, as well as many other publishers and catalogs, including those of Metallica and Bob Dylan. Price claims Spotify is ignoring his communications about getting his company's other clients properly licensed and paid.


Spotify, Warner/Chappell, Sony/ATV and Universal Music Publishing Group declined to comment for this report. Executives at the other streaming services were unavailable for comment.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/b...another-class-action-lawsuit-as-disputes-over
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ummm what does spotify got to do with the wade case??...... :blink:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ummm what does spotify got to do with the wade case??...... :blink:

I explained why I posted it in the introduction of my post. Read it.

Actually I find it interesting that according to the article Spotify so far tended to settle such cases. And then this lawfirm jumps on this bandwagon and files a class action lawsuit. Sounds like fishing for a settlement to me. Just like the Robson/Safechuck case.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That all Wade and James want anyway money that why their sounds fishing too. Just for this to be all over is all i want.

Good post Respect77
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I explained why I posted it in the introduction of my post. Read it.

Actually I find it interesting that according to the article Spotify so far tended to settle such cases. And then this lawfirm jumps on this bandwagon and files a class action lawsuit. Sounds like fishing for a settlement to me. Just like the Robson/Safechuck case.

okay ill have to find that post
thanks
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do you think, or have you ever discussed here if Robson and Safechuck and their lawyers read this discussion forum and this thread?

Can they have this thread as a source of information?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do you think, or have you ever discussed here if Robson and Safechuck and their lawyers read this discussion forum and this thread?

Can they have this thread as a source of information?

Since this is an open forum they can read this forum if they want. How could we know if they actually do?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do you think, or have you ever discussed here if Robson and Safechuck and their lawyers read this discussion forum and this thread?

Can they have this thread as a source of information?

they most probably focus on the haters websites and that's why their cases are all over the place.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh, I have no doubt that this forum has been read by them or members of the legal team. It's a well known forum that comes up when you do a search.
I would be rather disheartened if I were them though, since most of their arguments get blown out of the water by the informed members of this forum the second they're filed.
I'm surprised they keep going.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If their do look in this forum their will see we go by the law we have took Wade and James cases apart their lies have seen the light there is no more their lawyers can do.

I would love to have a judge look at this thread then he can see why are we dealing with this case it is a waste of tax payer money a case where the companies are not even ppls go figure. Barbee i like this part I would be rather disheartened if I were them though, since most of their arguments get blown out of the water by the informed members of this forum the second they're filed.
I'm surprised they keep going.
Let hope the judge can end this.
 
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