[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That why the Estate is going to bring up what Joy said in 2005 because it does not match with what Wade is trying to claim and then this.

The allegation is that the companies employed them so that MJ could abuse Robson.

(Does not make any sense at all companies are not ppls)

It look like Wade lawyers did not look at what Joy said before their did their claim or did not matter. The picture it looking very clear here.
 
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Sorry if this is off topic I ran into this today.

Does anyone know if this is true, who the girl is and the link this alleged facebook post?

When Gavin broke up with his longtime girlfriend last year, it was widely reported that the young lady had posted on her Facebook page that Gavin had confessed to her that Michael never touched him. But short of an actual, official confession from Gavin himself, such a statement has to be taken for what it’s worth. However, I do believe that in his heart, Gavin knows the truth.

http://www.allforloveblog.com/?p=5432

Also, if Joy was employed by the cosmetics company who can Wade claim not that she was employed by MJJ Production?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Also, if Joy was employed by the cosmetics company who can Wade claim not that she was employed by MJJ Production?

She was employed by both. She worked for the cosmetics company but on paper she was also employed by MJJP and her salaray was paid through MJJP. Something like that if I understand it correctly.

I have no idea about the other part of your post. I have never seen such a FB post. Not that we need any FB post to know Gavin was a liar.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

She was employed by both. She worked for the cosmetics company but on paper she was also employed by MJJP and her salaray was paid through MJJP. Something like that if I understand it correctly.

And why was that necessary?

Does Robson want to claim now that them moving to the US was Michael's idea and the only reason why they stayed
was that Michael somehow made them stay?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And why was that necessary?

Does Robson want to claim now that them moving to the US was Michael's idea and the only reason why they stayed
was that Michael somehow made them stay?

I guess it was necessary because of legal issues around immigration.

Yes, Robson basically wants to give the impression now that it was all MJ's doing that they came to the US so that he could allegedly molest him. In this new version of his story his mother is hardly even mentioned, it is definitely not mentioned how she was pushing MJ's office for the green cards or that she was the one who contacted MJ in the first place when they first came to the US and that she asked for his help. She was the driving force basically behind their immigration, yet Robson's lawsuit does not mention her very active part in the whole immigration thing. They just like to pretend now that she was just some passive bystander which is ridiculous.
 
respect77;4113466 said:
I guess it was necessary because of legal issues around immigration.

Yes, Robson basically wants to give the impression now that it was all MJ's doing that they came to the US so that he could allegedly molest him. In this new version of his story his mother is hardly even mentioned, it is definitely not mentioned how she was pushing MJ's office for the green cards or that she was the one who contacted MJ in the first place when they first came to the US and that she asked for his help. She was the driving force basically behind their immigration, yet Robson's lawsuit does not mention her very active part in the whole immigration thing. They just like to pretend now that she was just some passive bystander which is ridiculous.

I wonder whether this could be used by the Estate as evidence:

Life in LA, since moving there in September 1991, has been a far cry from their relatively quiet suburban lifestyle in Brisbane and, at times, Joy has been tempted to pack the six bags they took with them and head home, but it was not to be. “Michael told us when we were first considering a move to LA, to `follow our heart’, and it felt right to go,” said Joy. “The first 18 months in LA was really tough going. We had taken six suitcases and little money and knew no-one in LA, only Michael who spent much of the time away. And, we virtually had to start from scratch with Wade’s career because he was unknown, but we persisted and eventually – though difficult – we found a good theatrical and dance agent, and started trying out at auditions.”
Wade worked hard on his dancing and, for a while, was assisted by Michael Jackson’s dancing tutor while working on the superstar’s `Black and White’, `Jam’ and `Heal the World’ videos, but it wasn’t long before Joy – as Wade’s manager – began to direct Wade towards being a versatile performer, opening opportunities in acting, singing, music and dancing.
While Michael was their friend, he never interfered with Wade’s career … only to offer advice, but the ultimate decision was Joy and Wades’.


To this day, the Robson family maintain Michael is innocent. “Michael would hurt himself before he would hurt a child. He didn’t have a childhood himself, so it is important to him to see others having one,” said Joy. It was Wade’s decision to `go public’ on television and proclaim Michael’s innocence. “It was a tough thing to do – especially for an 11-year-old – but we couldn’t stand by and let people believe Michael had been anything but a friend to us,” said Joy, with Wade nodding his approval as he sat in on our interview.
“He would never hurt anyone,” said Wade, with a maturity that belied his years. Wade said Michael was an inspiration to him and a guiding force spiritually but his career, including the move into recording, was his and Joy’s decision alone.


“When we first came here I thought we would have achieved more in three years but now – I look at the reality of life and the business – and compare what we have done with others who have been in the industry all their lives, and I think we have done very well,” said Joy.
I would do it all again for the same reasons I did it in the first place. I had to give it a try or I would be forever wondering if I could have done it. I believed I had nothing to lose.”


http://onwiththeshow.com.au/the-inside-story-on-life-in-michael-jacksons-shadow-1995/

If this is true then clearly Michael had little to do with the Robsons after they moved to the US.
Does Robson provide exact dates after 1991 Sept when he was alone with Michael?
He wasn't even in Cali that much between 1993 and 1997.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sorry if this is off topic I ran into this today.

Does anyone know if this is true, who the girl is and the link this alleged facebook post?



http://www.allforloveblog.com/?p=5432

Also, if Joy was employed by the cosmetics company who can Wade claim not that she was employed by MJJ Production?

I read about that a few years back. Apparently the girl was upset with Gavin for cheating on her and outed him on facebook saying that he told her that MJ never molested him and that the story he told on the witness stand was all made up and that lying/scamming is what he and his family did for a living. She also stated that he went around school after the verdict bragging about what he did to MJ and that all the kids thought he was so cool and treated him like a celebrity and that he also bragged about all the gifts and money that he and his family received from prosecutors/police officers for him being a "victim".
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I read about that a few years back. Apparently the girl was upset with Gavin for cheating on her and outed him on facebook saying that he told her that MJ never molested him and that the story he told on the witness stand was all made up and that lying/scamming is what he and his family did for a living. She also stated that he went around school after the verdict bragging about what he did to MJ and that all the kids thought he was so cool and treated him like a celebrity and that he also bragged about all the gifts and money that he and his family received from prosecutors/police officers for him being a "victim".
. You know this just burns me up inside and my heart just breaks for Michael. All I have to say to Gavin and his evil family if they don't do the right thing by confessing the truth to the world and bring God into their lives. All hell will be called for endlessly.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Based on the discussion and information posted here, I assume Wade had O1 visa while his mother was O2 and his sister was probably O3.

O visa is also known as artist visa. For example if Universal Films is shooting a movie with a German actor, they would apply for an O1 for the talent. It would allow the foreign talent come and work in the USA for 3 years (and it can be extended). O2 is given to the people who come with O1 talent to support O1's artistic activities. Given Wade was a minor, most probably his mother was his manager, agent, chaperon etc. The limitation of O2 visa is that the person who holds an O2 visa can only work with/for O1 talent. O3 is given to the relatives (spouses and minor kids) of O1 & O2 and people with O3 can't work in US.

So to recap, I imagine MJJ Productions hired Robson and petitioned for an O1 artist visa for him and O2 manager/agent/support person visa for Joy. Given Joy's visa limited her work permit to Wade related stuff, her wage from her actual job had to be given to her through MJ's companies. Once they were in US long enough, they were able to apply for a green card and then there was no need for MJ to "employ" them at his companies.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thanks Ivy never knew that i though it was just a normal visa. That would explain why Joy could not get paid through her job because she was here with Wade and he was hire by Michael to do the Black And White short film so when Joy did get a job the pay came through Michael companies. I wonder why she could not get paid through her job now i see why.


Looking at what Joy said and what Michael said Wade story is just not match with what he claim happen Joy also say we begin at Neverland 4 times out of the 14 years their have been here she also say we have be there and Michael was not there. Wade sticking to his story but it is not adding up.

Like Michael say you hear a lie long enough and you stared to believe it. And for Wade to claim this happen for 7 years and he barley even saw Michael..

Wade looks like your own mom has pull the lid off of your lies.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

With all the hoopla lately about "Back To The Future", the anniversary, a documentary was made about this. In this, the documentary, it was brought out that in today's time, Doc would be considered a child molester. His relationship with Marty would not be considered appropriate. I wondered if this was tied in with Michael's problems, even after death. Doc had an innocent relationship with Marty, not at all inappropriate. Something to ponder.


 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ What?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate


I think I see...there must be lots of films where an 'outsider' figure becomes a life-changing positive mentor for a young boy, and this theme has been immensely successful at the cinema. Not just 'Back to the future', but also 'The Karate Kid' (1984), the Star Wars films, and I would include 'ET' and 'Free Willy' in this category, even though the 'outsider' is not human. Only in Michael's case is the older and 'unusual' mentor seen as a threat.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Maybe this is why ppls never understood Michael Michael has been on the stage every sense he was 5 yr. old that all he knew and he hang around all adults no kids so he felt that maybe he could be a mentor to these young kids imo i did not see anything wrong some of them needing someone to look up too some may not had a father at home who know but for the ppls to turn it into something ugly is sad to see by calling Michael weird,strange, not normal is so unfair.

When Michael said what wrong with share your bed the ppls just went outrage Michael try to say he slept on the floor no ppls did not believe that and i said who am i to say he did not do that i was not there we are so quick to judge a person without all of the facts we go by what we hear in the TB which does not print the true it all lies just to sell their papers. Imo to me Michael just want these kids to have childhood something he never had.

The tread that we have on the forum call Children who were Michael's friends those stories need to be in a book for the ppls to read so their can see who the real Michael Jackson was the stories are just so precious just break your heart to see he was sweet,kind,a caring person love you it did not matter the color of your skin he love you anyway. To me Michael was a mentor he did care.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I read about that a few years back. Apparently the girl was upset with Gavin for cheating on her and outed him on facebook saying that he told her that MJ never molested him and that the story he told on the witness stand was all made up and that lying/scamming is what he and his family did for a living. She also stated that he went around school after the verdict bragging about what he did to MJ and that all the kids thought he was so cool and treated him like a celebrity and that he also bragged about all the gifts and money that he and his family received from prosecutors/police officers for him being a "victim".

I would not be surprised if that low life said it. It is very clear that is what his family does. And for anyone to think that was cool is sick in the head. What goes around comes around.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Jordan need to tell the true that his father was only after Michael money to make a movie and that nothing ever happen he need to clear Michael name his father started this mess.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I would not be surprised if that low life said it. It is very clear that is what his family does. And for anyone to think that was cool is sick in the head. What goes around comes around.

Yeah really, and they were also being aided and abetted by a vindictive prosector who was obsessed with taking down an international celebrity. Sneddon could care less about victims or justice. All he cared about was getting Michael Jackson the superstar because he loved the idea of being involved in such a high profile case because of all the attention and opportunities that came along with it, and did all he could to make his dream happen. Even going as far as leaving his business card at the Arvizo's residence, changing the timeline when they conveniently changed their stories when they realized that the evidence contradicted their lies, and all the other unprofessional and unethical things he did. I saw an interview with Ron Zonen where someone asked him how he felt about people accusing his office about having a personal vendetta against Jackson and thats the only reason they brought the case and he replied by saying "in 1993, 2 young boys came forward claiming that they were molested by jackson and millions of dollars were paid out. 10 years later, another young boy comes forward and his story is very similar. what were we suppose to do? just sit there and do nothing? people would criticize us if we didn't go forward with a case"...Sorry but i disagree. If someone came to me and told me that Michael jackson molested them, I wouldn't automatically believe them. Why? well because accusations are not truth. They are just accusations. That is why we have this thing in our country called "innocent until proven guilty". So because of this, I would launch an investigation into the accuser's claims to find out if they're even true, as well as an investigation of his or her background as well as the background of their family. The fact that Jackson is a celebrity would refrain me from rushing to judgement, because celebrities are the biggest targets for false allegations and scams. What would happen if I automatically believed the accusers and went forward with a case and it turns out that they were full of BS? I and my entire office would end up looking stupid and getting utterly humiliated. Same thing with Wade Robson. A lot of people rushed to judgement and automatically believed his claims, rather then waiting for all the evidence to be presented. When you take a deep look into his story, you will see that he too is not telling the truth. His timeline doesn't add up and there are various lies and inconsistencies in his claims.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think I see...there must be lots of films where an 'outsider' figure becomes a life-changing positive mentor for a young boy, and this theme has been immensely successful at the cinema. Not just 'Back to the future', but also 'The Karate Kid' (1984), the Star Wars films, and I would include 'ET' and 'Free Willy' in this category, even though the 'outsider' is not human. Only in Michael's case is the older and 'unusual' mentor seen as a threat.

It is our changing times. What was considered something completely innocent can now be tainted. Sad.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

"in 1993, 2 young boys came forward claiming that they were molested by jackson and millions of dollars were paid out. 10 years later, another young boy comes forward and his story is very similar. what were we suppose to do? just sit there and do nothing? people would criticize us if we didn't go forward with a case"...

As usual Zonen twists things. In 1993 Jason Francia did not "come forward", but he was coerced and manipulated into saying what the police wanted him to say.

And Gavin. LOL, the police were investigating even before he claimed anything. Of course, when a family of grifters sees that the police is so keen on them making allegations against MJ and that they could even make money with it, it will be tempting for them to eventually make allegations.

Sorry but i disagree. If someone came to me and told me that Michael jackson molested them, I wouldn't automatically believe them. Why? well because accusations are not truth. They are just accusations. That is why we have this thing in our country called "innocent until proven guilty". So because of this, I would launch an investigation into the accuser's claims to find out if they're even true, as well as an investigation of his or her background as well as the background of their family.

No problem with an investigator investigating such claims whether it is a celebrity or not. In fact, often it happened in the past that authorities refused to properly investigate celebrities or influential people on such allegations which is wrong. So I have no problem with it if a prosecution does its job in an unbiased way. However, this prosecution was not unbiased. They actively went out of their way to try to create "victims" - by trying to coerce kids into saying something about MJ. It was clear that from the very beginning they wanted MJ to be guilty and for that purpose they ignored all problems with the accusers and their stories. That is not unbiased prosecution, that is being obsessed. How could one seriously believe the Arvizos and take such a case to court? It's crazy.

The Los Angeles police knew when to let go. They investigated too but Los Angeles DA Gil Garcetti said in September 1994 that since Jordan Chandler doesn't want to testify and there is no other evidence against MJ than Jordan's word the case is closed and it should be stated that everyone has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. And he moved on. But not Sneddon. For years he kept digging and digging. Trying to get Jordan re-open the case, extending the statutes of limitation for him, even when he never showed any intention that he wanted to take the case to court. Heck, Sneddon even was willing to believe totally uncredited people, such as Victor Guiterrez. Guiterrez and his claim about video tape allegedly showing MJ molesting a boy was totally discredited in a court, yet Sneddon STILL visited that boy, Jeremy Jackson, when he turned 18, to ask him about the alleged tape. It's one thing to investigate. It is totally another to be obsessed to the point where you want to believe totally discredited people and non-existing "evidence", deliberitely ignoring all the problems with such people and you want to believe them despite of what the alleged "victims" themselves say. Or when you actively coerce people into saying things that you want to hear. That is not a prosecution, but a lynch mob.

And it is interesring to note that Sneddon wasn't that zealous when it came to other child abuse cases in his area. In 1993 the Catholic Church themselves reported sexual abuse in one of their Santa Barbara schools but Sneddon refused to investigate because of statutes of limitations. Apparently he wasn't that zealous to extend statutes of limitations there as he did in the MJ case. I guess he was too busy chasing MJ. In the early 2000s one of his colleagues was reported for the alleged sexual abuse of a young girl, but they somehow managed to get the case thrown out with Sneddon's support. So it is not like he was that zealous and passionate about every child molestation allegation.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And it is interesring to note that Sneddon wasn't that zealous when it came to other child abuse cases in his area. In 1993 the Catholic Church themselves reported sexual abuse in one of their Santa Barbara schools but Sneddon refused to investigate because of statutes of limitations. Apparently he wasn't that zealous to extend statutes of limitations there as he did in the MJ case. I guess he was too busy chasing MJ. In the early 2000s one of his colleagues was reported for the alleged sexual abuse of a young girl, but they somehow managed to get the case thrown out with Sneddon's support. So it is not like he was that zealous and passionate about every child molestation allegation.

This is why it is laughable to me when people act like he was some kind of advocate for sexual abuse victims and defend his actions by saying he was a good man who cared about victims and getting justice for them.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I really don't buy that Sneddon or Zonen ever really believed he was guilty. He just wanted to land himself a superstar. Imagine the feather in his cap then? And Zonen just went along willingly for the ride.

One of the most obvious examples of that, to me, is Sneddon's response to his death. Saying how unfortunate it was and appearing subdued and contrite. He knew what he and the trial had done to Michael.

"Cold man" indeed.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I really don't buy that Sneddon or Zonen ever really believed he was guilty. He just wanted to land himself a superstar. Imagine the feather in his cap then? And Zonen just went along willingly for the ride.

One of the most obvious examples of that, to me, is Sneddon's response to his death. Saying how unfortunate it was and appearing subdued and contrite. He knew what he and the trial had done to Michael.

"Cold man" indeed.

Actually, they did believe that he was guilty. This, along with the fact that he was a big celebrity is what made them obsessed and wanting to win at any cost. They wanted to be known as the people who took down Michael Jackson. Being involved in such a high profile case with such a high profile celebrity is a very exciting experience that comes with a lot of benefits. Many people were gloating over this case and had jobs lined up, as well as other opportunities if he had been convicted.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My god both Zonen and Sneddon were not only trying to be famous for trying to take down the hero we loved who's 100% innocent and truthful for doing no such harm, they're both monsters. As for Sneddon who's the real monster, how can ignore any other child sex abuse happened when kids wanted help and focusing on MJ instead? Sneddon once a co-chair of the National District Attorney's Child Support Committee yeah right, he doesn't even care about kids in trouble at all, all he cares about his vendetta against Michael and like I've said once before Sneddon extended the law re. child sex abuse was done just to get at Michael, talk about a very stupid move.
 
Here is a better understanding of what was said concerning Doc's relationship with young Marty McFly:

Another thing I’ve picked up from talking to cast members is how accessible you made yourself to them, if they character questions or things like that. It’s easy to see how being able to get character or story clarifications from the writer would benefit them, but I’m wondering if and how you found that close writer-actor relationship to be beneficial to you?

Well, it’s like I was saying: it’s our job as the filmmakers to make the cast as absolutely comfortable with their characters as possible. We can answer all of their questions and give them what they need to do the jobs that they have to do. When Bob and I are coming up with these characters, we’re thinking of little backstories for them. It’s stuff that doesn’t actually end up on the screen, but it helps us write them, and then when the actors ask questions, we can give them that. Like, if Michael J. Fox had asked me, “How did Marty and Doc meet?” … Marty McFly had been told for years to stay away from Emmett Brown, because he’s a dangerous nutcase. I thought he was the type of kid who would wonder, “Who is this guy?” [Laughs] So he snuck into Doc’s lab—we actually have a version of this story in the first issue of the comic book that’s coming out—and Doc said, “Hey, you want a job? Help me get things set up and help me out with some of these experiments.” Not being judgmental, Marty saw the kinds of things he was doing and started to think Doc was the coolest guy in the world. Just knowing that they’ve known each other for a couple of years, and you watch the relationship between Doc Brown and Marty McFly, and it just works. You just go with it. Today, if we tried to do that, they’d probably ask, “Oh, is Doc Brown some kind of child molester?” [Laughs]


http://www.undertheradarmag.com/interviews/back_to_the_future_screenwriter_bob_gale

This is also discussed in the documentary, that I mentioned above!


[video=youtube;a-njcAia6nY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-njcAia6nY[/video]


Okay eat this!
[video=youtube;0RuAlyNclck]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RuAlyNclck[/video]​
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

As usual Zonen twists things. In 1993 Jason Francia did not "come forward", but he was coerced and manipulated into saying what the police wanted him to say.

And Gavin. LOL, the police were investigating even before he claimed anything. Of course, when a family of grifters sees that the police is so keen on them making allegations against MJ and that they could even make money with it, it will be tempting for them to eventually make allegations.



No problem with an investigator investigating such claims whether it is a celebrity or not. In fact, often it happened in the past that authorities refused to properly investigate celebrities or influential people on such allegations which is wrong. So I have no problem with it if a prosecution does its job in an unbiased way. However, this prosecution was not unbiased. They actively went out of their way to try to create "victims" - by trying to coerce kids into saying something about MJ. It was clear that from the very beginning they wanted MJ to be guilty and for that purpose they ignored all problems with the accusers and their stories. That is not unbiased prosecution, that is being obsessed. How could one seriously believe the Arvizos and take such a case to court? It's crazy.

The Los Angeles police knew when to let go. They investigated too but Los Angeles DA Gil Garcetti said in September 1994 that since Jordan Chandler doesn't want to testify and there is no other evidence against MJ than Jordan's word the case is closed and it should be stated that everyone has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. And he moved on. But not Sneddon. For years he kept digging and digging. Trying to get Jordan re-open the case, extending the statutes of limitation for him, even when he never showed any intention that he wanted to take the case to court. Heck, Sneddon even was willing to believe totally uncredited people, such as Victor Guiterrez. Guiterrez and his claim about video tape allegedly showing MJ molesting a boy was totally discredited in a court, yet Sneddon STILL visited that boy, Jeremy Jackson, when he turned 18, to ask him about the alleged tape. It's one thing to investigate. It is totally another to be obsessed to the point where you want to believe totally discredited people and non-existing "evidence", deliberitely ignoring all the problems with such people and you want to believe them despite of what the alleged "victims" themselves say. Or when you actively coerce people into saying things that you want to hear. That is not a prosecution, but a lynch mob.

And it is interesring to note that Sneddon wasn't that zealous when it came to other child abuse cases in his area. In 1993 the Catholic Church themselves reported sexual abuse in one of their Santa Barbara schools but Sneddon refused to investigate because of statutes of limitations. Apparently he wasn't that zealous to extend statutes of limitations there as he did in the MJ case. I guess he was too busy chasing MJ. In the early 2000s one of his colleagues was reported for the alleged sexual abuse of a young girl, but they somehow managed to get the case thrown out with Sneddon's support. So it is not like he was that zealous and passionate about every child molestation allegation.



Respect77 i could have use you at work today have this talk with the office by the way he said Michael did this He was saying that there was proof that Michael abuse these boys he said the reason why Michael paid them off is because hie would not win in court because there was evidence to back up their stories i told him that was not true these were all lies that ppls believe. The plan was to bring Michael Jackson down and their did care how it was done. That why ppls today still believe the lies their do not want to see the truth sad.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Safechuck filed an amended complaint which Ivy sent to me so I ran through it. The new elements in it are: He added five earlier witness testimonies from 1993-1994. These are the following.

1) Mark Quindoy's witness testimony from September 22, 1993 in which he claims he witnessed MJ touch Safechuck's crotch in the jacuzzi and Norma Staikos allegedly telling his wife not to leave children alone with MJ.

2) They quote another witness statement from April 15, 1994. Some female security guard saying that Staikos changed the security protocolls when she took charge. Before that the protocoll was to stop MJ's car at the gates and see if he was alright, not being kidnapped etc. but then it changed to Staikos calling the ranch before MJ arrived and just let him through. This person also testified MJ was often accompanied by a young boy. And that she once witnessed a young boy hiding between the seats in MJ's car. It is also claimed by this person that once when MJ arrived unannounced to Staikos and Staikos learnt about it she went ballistic. (Since this is a female security guard I suspect this is one of the Neverland 5, either Charli Michaels or Melanie Bangall.)

3) They quote a witness statement by Blanca Francia in October 1993 witness in which she said that Staikos "was the person who arranged things with the children and their families". She is quoted saying that Staikos "was in charge" and that she was forced to sign a confidentiality agreement. (LOL, as if that is some shady thing when you work for a famous person.)

4) April 18, 1994 witness statement of a woman (I think Orietta Murdock) is quoted saying Staikos told her "never leave (name-possibly her son) alone with Michael Jackson" and that "That kid [DECEDENT] better be glad I understand his problem." She claimed she was later terminated by Staikos and MJ later supposedly admitted to her that Staikos forced him to agree with it against his wishes.

5) They also quote someone's witness testimony from February 15, 1994 saying Staikos fired anyone who got too close to MJ.

They use these to try to show Staikos had "a significant degree of control over DECEDENT's affairs in her capacity as the Executive Director of MJJ Productions."

IMO no matter what anyone says she did not have control over MJ. An employee having control over the sole owner and president of the company is nonsense. MJ hated confrontation, so he always let the dirty work of firing to others while acting innocent about it, but whatever he supposedly told an employee that got fired, the reality is that he had control over Norma, not the other way around.

And one another new point:

"70. In late-1995 - early-1996, Plaintiff was again employed by MJJ Productions as a director for a short 35 mm film, which was shot at Neverland. Plaintiff's employment on this shoot is reflected in a memorandum from the producer John Lugar to Evvy Tavasci at MJJ Productions."

This wasn't in the previous complaint. So at age 18 Safechuck was still hanging out at Neverland? After all that "abuse"? They are trying to make it look like MJ abandoned him after he reached puberty but then there is a lot of evidence of that not being the case at all, so I guess they had to admit to all these things. I mean MJ hired him for the HIStory trailer, for Earth Song, hired private film teachers for him from NYU in directing or screen script writing. Some abandoning!

The addition seems to be for the purpose of saying Safechuck was employed by MJJP. But this was when he was 17-18 years old. How does it help him?

At the beginning of the complaint he also mentions to have been employed by MJJ Ventures but doesn't say when:

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MJJ Ventures was founded in 1991, so it only could have been after that, but since all specific work mentioned in his complaint is when he was older (HIStory trailer, Earth Song, 35 mm film), I suspect if he was ever employed by these companies, only after the alleged abuse ceased. So how does it help him?


More to the point. Their legal argument. They claim four causes of action:

1)

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(BTW, MJJ Ventures was founded in 1991, so two and a half years after Safechuck claims his sexual abuse started. So how could then it, as a company, have knowledge of previous sexual abuse before Safechuck's alleged abuse started?)



2)

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Notice that they do not mention an employment. They claim MJ's companies have responsibility because they arranged dinners with MJ or travels.

3)

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4)

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But to me it just looks like they are parroting the law. They claim the companies had prior knowledge of MJ allegedly sexually abusing children before Safechuck, but nowhere in their complaint they show that. Company gossip or beliefs or vauge remarks by employees do not qualify as one of the precedent cases showed. There have to be actual complaints - they don't have to be formal complaints, they can be informal - but there have to be complaints about actual sexual abuse. Not just people thinking MJ hanging out with young boys was weird. The usual suspects who are quoted to have "witnessed" things, like the Quindoys, all made their claims at the height of the media frenzy during the Chandler allegations and they all said they never reported their claims before to anyone. So that cannot be made the company's responsibility either.

Two, no, they did not show that the companies had control over MJ. Like I said above whatever MJ allegedly told a fired employee, in reality the boss and the sole owner has control over the employee. When a person has power over you to hire or fire you, has the right to instruct you then who has the control? You? Norma Staikos was MJ's boss? Did Norma Staikos have power to place MJ in certain positions? And what should Norma Staikos have done when MJ instructed her to send a car for the Safechucks and bring him and his family to him? What exactly he should have done? What exactly she should have done when MJ instructed MJJ Productions to pay for their accomodation on tour and stuff like that? To me it sounds like such a nonsense.

Just reading this sentence it sounds so crazy:

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So MJ was the president/owner of his companies and in that capacity the company had the ability to control over his business and personal affairs? So not the owner controls his company but his company controls him? And even his personal affairs? How does this make any sense?

Also to claim that MJ had access to Safechuck through and because of these companies is nonsense. His parents had no problem with MJ being around their son, MJ obviously did not need any companies to have access to Safechuck.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Respect77 none of this making any sense at all Wade and James are still trying to say that the companies cause this that somebody in the companies was aware that this was going on. You know i reallyl do not care how many ppls say their saw MJ abuse these boys where is you proof to me this is hearsay no truth to it. Wade and James are going around in circle to tell you the truth their do not know what their want to claim the stories have change so many time.

I well be glad when this mess is all over.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And whatever these shady, fired employees claimed Staikos told them I am also sure somewhere in Staikos' testimonies she was straight up asked whether she ever witnessed anything, whether she was ever aware of MJ abusing young boys and the answer is probably "no" because she was never used by the prosecution. Plus if she had ever said she knew about such things Robson/Safechuck would have already used that quote.

Of course, that's not really relevant at this point because at this point the Estate will have to go by points accepted by both parties as true or build their defense in Summary Judgement on the basis of "even if this is true". So pointing out that "even if Staikos really said these things these are not enough to establish a knowledge/reason to know/being on notice". And by one precedent case they quoted earlier they are not enough. Were there any previous complaints against MJ allegedly abusing boys? No. Did anyone report about such an incident to Staikos? No.

And then there is the whole thing with the control.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Safechuck filed an amended complaint which Ivy sent to me so I ran through it. The new elements in it are: He added five earlier witness testimonies from 1993-1994. These are the following.

1) Mark Quindoy's witness testimony from September 22, 1993 in which he claims he witnessed MJ touch Safechuck's crotch in the jacuzzi and Norma Staikos allegedly telling his wife not to leave children alone with MJ.

2) They quote another witness statement from April 15, 1994. Some female security guard saying that Staikos changed the security protocolls when she took charge. Before that the protocoll was to stop MJ's car at the gates and see if he was alright, not being kidnapped etc. but then it changed to Staikos calling the ranch before MJ arrived and just let him through. This person also testified MJ was often accompanied by a young boy. And that she once witnessed a young boy hiding between the seats in MJ's car. It is also claimed by this person that once when MJ arrived unannounced to Staikos and Staikos learnt about it she went ballistic. (Since this is a female security guard I suspect this is one of the Neverland 5, either Charli Michaels or Melanie Bangall.)

3) They quote a witness statement by Blanca Francia in October 1993 witness in which she said that Staikos "was the person who arranged things with the children and their families". She is quoted saying that Staikos "was in charge" and that she was forced to sign a confidentiality agreement. (LOL, as if that is some shady thing when you work for a famous person.)

4) April 18, 1994 witness statement of a woman (I think Orietta Murdock) is quoted saying Staikos told her "never leave (name-possibly her son) alone with Michael Jackson" and that "That kid [DECEDENT] better be glad I understand his problem." She claimed she was later terminated by Staikos and MJ later supposedly admitted to her that Staikos forced him to agree with it against his wishes.

5) They also quote someone's witness testimony from February 15, 1994 saying Staikos fired anyone who got too close to MJ.

They use these to try to show Staikos had "a significant degree of control over DECEDENT's affairs in her capacity as the Executive Director of MJJ Productions."

IMO no matter what anyone says she did not have control over MJ. An employee having control over the sole owner and president of the company is nonsense. MJ hated confrontation, so he always let the dirty work of firing to others while acting innocent about it, but whatever he supposedly told an employee that got fired, the reality is that he had control over Norma, not the other way around.




And one another new point:

"70. In late-1995 - early-1996, Plaintiff was again employed by MJJ Productions as a director for a short 35 mm film, which was shot at Neverland. Plaintiff's employment on this shoot is reflected in a memorandum from the producer John Lugar to Evvy Tavasci at MJJ Productions."
This wasn't in the previous complaint. So at age 18 Safechuck was still hanging out at Neverland? After all that "abuse"? They are trying to make it look like MJ abandoned him after he reached puberty but then there is a lot of evidence of that not being the case at all, so I guess they had to admit to all these things. I mean MJ hired him for the HIStory trailer, for Earth Song, hired private film teachers for him from NYU in directing or screen script writing. Some abandoning!





This is just plain crazy and like you said James still hang out at Neverland after all that abuse.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And whatever these shady, fired employees claimed Staikos told them I am also sure somewhere in Staikos' testimonies she was straight up asked whether she ever witnessed anything, whether she was ever aware of MJ abusing young boys and the answer is probably "no" because she was never used by the prosecution. Plus if she had ever said she knew about such things Robson/Safechuck would have already used that quote.

Of course, that's not really relevant at this point because at this point the Estate will have to go by points accepted by both parties as true or build their defense in Summary Judgement on the basis of "even if this is true". So pointing out that "even if Staikos really said these things these are not enough to establish a knowledge/reason to know/being on notice". And by one precedent case they quoted earlier they are not enough. Were there any previous complaints against MJ allegedly abusing boys? No. Did anyone report about such an incident to Staikos? No.

And then there is the whole thing with the control.



Exactly i agree with you on this.
 
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