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Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

Moddie777 said:
MJbabe21, I really love you! You are so Encouraging and Sweet. Your enthusiasm keeps me going!
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Thank you Moddie :) :hug: I love you more ....:D!! well you guys do a very nice job at intrepretting things. Keep it up guys!:kickass: and no Problem Moddie!
 
Ladies & Gents,
What an absolutely beautiful romantic love story...

Be still my heart~~~pitter patter~~~

I don't think Mr.Jackson is wooing this person has anything to do with her being lucky...She has "always" been there for him despite the trials, tribulations, through all the doubts, and frustration...

I believe it has "everything" to do with being "in love"... the two of them truly feeling totally "complete" with each other..!
 
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When he sings with the sound of love in his voice, he sounds really nice. It's like you can feel what he's feeling. I love that.
 
okay..so I found the inspiration for "Hold My Hand".


Ready for it guys?


Wall-E!! hahah.. nah but while watching that movie, I did get the hold my hand song popping up in my head..
 
well feel free then now! Go at it... I didn't have much more to say but that.

I do wish that we could see some physical evidence of him being with someone, such as him out with someone.. lol.. but I guess he is all about mystery ;)
 
hahahah.. cute. OK.. I will not hold my breath for your post, but will look forward to the possibility of it.. (kinda like a certain new released album of somebodies :eek: )
 
Hahahaha. Okey dokey, queenie.

Thanks for bring up mystery again, Ape. MJ wants the special one to help him make the mysteries unfold. Hmmmm. Unfold where? Unfold for whom? Unfold in privave? Or untold before the world? Maybe it's a bit of both. Unfold for them, unfold for everyone.

"Searching for that one who's gonna make me whole. Help me make these mysteries unfold."

Moddie777 recently brought up MJ's poem titled "Two Birds." In it he said:

"It's hard to tell them what I feel for you. They haven't ever met you, and no one has your picture. So how can they ever understand your mystery? Let's give them a clue:"

So, I guess this clearly means he doesn't want his love for someone to remain a mystery. What would be the point of giving a clue? Yet, some of the clues that he's dropping are for her only and will remain a mystery.

Keep the magnifying glasses close by! LOL :D
 
"let's give them a clue " :) that's cute. Really sweet isn't it? He already works together with her. Doing things as a couple.. well.. or seems to want to.

I was told on here a while back that "two birds" was about himself.. and that MJ actually told this to someone..now he doesn't always have to tell the whole story to others, so maybe there is more to it than what he said.. or maybe even more to it than he realizes as well (as can often happen with inspired things).
 
The storrrrryyyyyy. Thanks to the Internet, I was finally able to show you the areas that it all took place in. I'm still trying to think about how I want the ending to go tho. After reading some of his poems from "Dancing the Dream" again, I'm able to look back at some of the cute things he did that day and see why he did some of them. He is so much like the things he wrote. I'm hoping I can get some of that to come out in "the end."

Still thinking...

Also, I know what you're referring to, Ape. Dusk2Dawn is the one that explained "Two Birds" to us. :yes: He or she did say a lot of it has to do with MJ himself. What I find interesting though is that MJ has now brought up the word mystery in a love song.

Keep those magnifying glasses near by. lol
 
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AllForMJ said:
Hahahaha. Okey dokey, queenie.

Thanks for bring up mystery again, Ape. MJ wants the special one to help him make the mysteries unfold. Hmmmm. Unfold where? Unfold for whom? Unfold in privave? Or untold before the world? Maybe it's a bit of both. Unfold for them, unfold for everyone.

"Searching for that one who's gonna make me whole. Help me make these mysteries unfold."

Moddie777 recently brought up MJ's poem titled "Two Birds." In it he said:

"It's hard to tell them what I feel for you. They haven't ever met you, and no one has your picture. So how can they ever understand your mystery? Let's give them a clue:"

So, I guess this clearly means he doesn't want his love for someone to remain a mystery. What would be the point of giving a clue? Yet, some of the clues that he's dropping are for her only and will remain a mystery.

Keep the magnifying glasses close by! LOL :D
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I believe Michael has used "Mysterious unfold" in 2 recent songs "One more chance" and "Cry",. I agree, Michael seems to have been waiting for her to make "Their" mystery unfold. For whatever the reason, he felt he could not.
In many of his most saddest songs of longing he tells us how he is "waiting". He also tells us he waits for her over a course of a lengthy time in the Poem, ' "The last tear". Despair and Loneliness are his companion during this time.
Also Michael reveals in the second line of ''Two Birds" that this lady is not a celebrity. As you have posted he says, "They haven't ever met you, and NO ONE HAS YOUR PICTURE". If his lady love was publically known, he would not have made it his business to make that clear in the poem. In 1992 when Dancing The Dream" was published, Michael was opening up his very soul and relating to the world how deeply in love he had been and how broken his spirts had become with the loss.
His recent clues suggest that it is no longer a Mystery for Him. Michael is being far more direct now than ever before and whats most noticable is the fact he is being very consistant with being direct when it comes to his feelings for her.
 
Are y'all saying Wall E because their love ends up changing the world? :unsure: is that why that movie is being mentioned

Moddie would you be able to post "The Last Tear" or just that part?

AllforMJ *jumps up and down* ..............c'mon now ... my popcorn is getting cold :lol:

:popcorn: and what doyou mean by "the end" (in quotes)

( where is everybody? :unsure: )
 
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Many years ago, he said this...

“My dating and relationships with girls have not had the happy ending I’ve been looking for. Something always seems to get in the way. The things I share with millions of people aren’t the sort of things you share with one. Many girls want to know what makes me tick - why I live the way I live or do the things I do - trying to get inside my head. They want to rescue me from my loneliness, but they do it in such a way that they give me the impression they want to share my loneliness, which I wouldn’t wish on anybody, because I believe I’m one of the loneliest people in the world.”

Yet in 2003, in "One More Chance," he told the one he'd walk around the world to find and sail the seven seas to be near, "Come and rescue me out of this storm." He even provided a clue on how to do it when he said, "To get out of this cold, I need some warmth."

Then in 2004, in "The Way You Love Me" he said, "I was alone, there was no love in my life. I was afraid of life and you came in time."

"Come and rescue me..."
"You came in time."

It's like he knew he could believe in her. The overall tone of the song "The Way You Love Me" is that of happiness. It came out during a time of turmoil. In this song he's telling her she came in time and that she took away the rain. He seems to be very happy with the way she went about rescuing him from his loneliness. I'm wondering if she brought him the type of love that never interferes as he mentions in "Two Birds." It seems like it would be one of his requirements since he mentioned it. It also seems like he would want this to be ongoing while he and she are heading to that happy ending that he's been looking for.
:yes:

Hey, something good did happen this time when something got in the way. She was there for him before, during and after.
 
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Hi, STATEofSHOCK! Didn't see you until after I clicked the button to post! Cold popcorn?! Oh no, not cold popcorn! This is serious! Cold popcorn can't even be reheated in the microwave! Have you guys ever tried that?! It is soooooo nasty!! *spitting* :lol:
 
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Ohhhhhh, so you DID try it! It's like chewing on some buttered styrofoam, huh? :lol:
 
^ perfect analogy :lol:


I'm wondering if she brought him the type of love that never interferes as he mentions in "Two Birds." It seems like it would be one of his requirements since he mentioned it. It also seems like he would want this to be ongoing while he and she are heading to that happy ending that he's been looking for.
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I'm wondering ............. now if they've not really known eachother how he could know something like that ..............about her I mean ......... unless ....*thinking* unless maybe he sensed it about her..........that she is one to "live and let live" offerring herself only when and where needed ..

.. and/or maybe he could sense she is sensitive enough to offer herself to what maybe could be needed ... (Will You Be There, the poem, Nurse me
Soothe me, don't leave me)

:unsure:

maybe "help me make these mysteries unfold" means .....

help him understand their mysterious attraction as the Will You Be There poem also suggests, "Save me and face me" as if "facing" him would be "saving" him from the mystery.

when was Someone Put Your Hand Out released again....................................? same era wann't it

There for the first time he mentions searching the world and mentions the words, "wishing" - "she'll" and "be there"

:unsure: (hmm "will you be there")


and i'm in the process of establishing a new sleep pattern :lol: oh no!
 
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In Wall-E he watches this film in which two people hold hands, and he is drawn in by this. He longs to hold the hand of another and almost seems to long to understand it. He first holds his own hand, then later on, he tries holding the hand of the girl robot who came to his world, yearning for the chance to hold it. It was a mini theme in the movie. Very sweet.

What you mentioned, SOS, could be another thing to add, sure.

What made you say they don't really know each other, when you said "I'm wondering ............. now if they've not really known eachother how he could know something like that ..............about her I mean ......... unless ....*thinking* unless maybe he sensed it about her..........that she is one to "live and let live" offerring herself only when and where needed .."

How can they not know each other if they are in love? They must know at least the important things, more than looks and all that superficial stuff, I would think. Just wondered why you thought he doesn't know her well.


AllforMJ yes that was the persons post I was referring to regarding the two birds. I can completely understand the other interpretation of it (that had come from MJ himself) though I can also see another possibility in it.
 
I don't think the woman wants to share his lonliness, and also loves him for exactly what person he is...nothing more, nothing less...What I mean is that the woman loves his personality. ALL of his personality. WHO he is..and I don't mean this in that star-struck sense. I mean it that the woman knows what kind of gentle, loving soul he is - and loves him so much for that...loves him for his sensitivity, his caring, and his sweet innocent nature. She never came across someone so quite uniquely original as he is, and she wouldn't change one thing about him. It is THAT that endears her to him. ....maybe she's the same way underneath too? And he knows that?

She loves him for all that.
 
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Ape said:
In Wall-E he watches this film in which two people hold hands, and he is drawn in by this. He longs to hold the hand of another and almost seems to long to understand it. He first holds his own hand, then later on, he tries holding the hand of the girl robot who came to his world, yearning for the chance to hold it. It was a mini theme in the movie. Very sweet.

What you mentioned, SOS, could be another thing to add, sure.

What made you say they don't really know each other, when you said "I'm wondering ............. now if they've not really known eachother how he could know something like that ..............about her I mean ......... unless ....*thinking* unless maybe he sensed it about her..........that she is one to "live and let live" offerring herself only when and where needed .."

How can they not know each other if they are in love? They must know at least the important things, more than looks and all that superficial stuff, I would think. Just wondered why you thought he doesn't know her well.


AllforMJ yes that was the persons post I was referring to regarding the two birds. I can completely understand the other interpretation of it (that had come from MJ himself) though I can also see another possibility in it.
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oh ok thanks for that Wall - E explanation.

I asked that question because from the beginning the theme of the thread seemed to be about someone he "knows" (and loves) in the spirit (mental, spiritual, emotional) realm

maybe that wasn't meant literally when it was said earlier on (remember you did the "dream" theory...it was for that reason, right?) .... not sure what's really being implied by some of the spiritual interpretations... which is also why I asked that. To see if maybe some clarification might come from some "interpreters" which I don't feel that I am one - I feel that what I do is just look at the music and make notations....and let the interpreters interpret and so with that, just hoped someone would clarify.
 
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If it is through the art... I think we could all come up with various interpretations that would make sense to ourselves. I know Michael probably has his interpretation as well... but from my experience, even my own arts personal interpretation can and will evolve over time and experience. My writing or art can have a whole new meaning when I read it or look at it years later. I might have something sort of concrete in my mind at the time, but later on I see something new emerge out of it. Something even more beautiful that I hadn't noticed before. Like I wasn't really the only creator of it. It's happened in my drawings/paintings as well as writing and (my attempts at) poems, etc. Anything created. I love to hear other peoples interpretations of anything I create because often times they will pick up on something that I may have missed but is truly there. I don't know if you can attribute it to subconsious or maybe God, or just coincidence, but just because it might be different from my own interpretation, does not mean it doesn't have validity. Perhaps this is what is meant when he says "help me make these mysteries unfold". Maybe he knows there is more to his creations than he can see, and he needs to see them from someone elses viewpoint to understand them more fully. To see them in their entirety. Maybe there is more to it all than one persons perception.
 
My friend and I get talking sometimes about things in this thread and other things to do with Michael Jackson or even just ourselves. I wanted to share some of what we talked about and I hope it can bring some new ideas or insight into this and maybe in some way help?

If it is a bit hard to follow, just realize that it is letters back and forth, so it isn't written as a post. For me to have changed it would have taken away from it I think. So I left it as is.

We were talking about Two Birds, and I wanted to share some of the insight that they had. I got permission to before posting, since it isn't my thoughts only. First of all, here is Michael Jacksons poem :) and I will put the other persons thoughts in quotes with mine not in quotes.

TWO BIRDS

It’s hard to tell them what I feel for you.
They haven’t ever met you, and no one has your picture.
So how can they ever understand your mystery?
Let’s give them a clue:
Two birds sit in a tree.
One eats cherries, while the other looks on.
Two birds fly through the air.
One’s song drops like crystal from the sky while the other keeps silent.
Two birds wheel in the sun.
One catches the light on its silver feathers, while the other spreads wings of invisibility.

It’s easy to guess which bird I am, but they’ll never find you. Unless...

Unless they already know a love that never interferes, that watches from beyond, that breathes free in the invisible air.
Sweet bird, my soul, your silence is so precious.
How long will it be before the world hears your song in mine?
Oh, that is a day I hunger for!


© 1992 Michael Joseph Jackson - Dancing The Dream
I remembered a little mention / explanation a friend of mine had about "Two Birds", saying it was inspired by an Indian philosophy, I think. And I think she meant Kabir, or someone else. Michael is very inspired by Oriental mysticism anyway, and its beliefs are wonderful. I found a poem belonging to a poet called Michael Shepherd, poem inspired by Kabir, another poet and visionary. And it wrote:

Two Birds In A Tree

Two birds rest on the same tree; their eyes are bright; they look alike; yet one is the Teacher; one the Student; the Student tastes all the many fruits upon that tree; the Teacher sits, just watches, filled with love and pride; the eyes of both are bright; when the Student has tasted all, the Teacher asks what has been learnt; for only the Teacher knows within their heart: that now the Student is the teacher; the Teacher listens as a student; the Student speaks now as a teacher who has learned this of themself; the Teacher’s eyes are bright: knowing that to live it through shows the knowledge to be true; the Student is teaching the Teacher now, of how to teach; the Teacher glows to know the Student may surpass the Teacher; knowledge shines from both their eyes; who is the more glorious of these two who share both the same name? who rejoice to need the other; who rejoice to be the other; now they are silent; now the tree’s rejoicing too; Its roots above; its fruits below; its leaves, a shelter; its branches, home.* [ Leaning on a poem of Kabir: Indian readers will be familiar with 'two birds in a tree' as a metaphor for acting with detachment; Kabir takes this further, into knowledge gained from wise action...]


I copied and pasted it, and it even though it was a poem, it pasted itself strangely. It had stanzas anyway, I hope it can be clear nonetheless. I thought it somehow explains Michael's poem. It is an interchanging role, apparently, that they take, that of the Teacher and its student..Or of God and the child..Michael is a complex human being, he must have also included these subjects, too..He tells us, apparently, that he is both a child, and a wise person, both a slave and a master, like he says in the "Planet Earth" poem. I think he empathizes with a more profound knowledge, that of loving silently, wisely, with that peaceful, sitting, invisible bird..When feeling at one with God, he too becomes invisible..Yet, it also to his soul..His soulmate, most likely, which he yearns to be at one with with..Michael Shepherd's poem, though, I realize it's about the birds actually finding each other and living in a home at last, in the same tree; it tells about a happy finality, about the birds being both silent now, as though finally at peace and content, or as though the restless soul has finally found its peace..Beautiful how in this poem, it is mentioned something about the other's appearance, actually both of theirs: they are said to look alike, to be alike, to have their name alike, alluding to equality as well..To be one and the same figuratively speaking, or not necessarily..

Both poems are wonderful, as well as their inspiration..



the analogy is incredible, and both these poems are based on the Indian philosophy of the Master becoming one and the same with the pupil. Both the poems focus on the 2 birds, on the fruits one (both of them) eats, on silence and watching the other silently from beyond, only that Michael’s poem hasn’t had a finality at the time he wrote it. He was wistful.
His poem has multiple interpretations, I agree: he refers to either a loved one ( and we talked about it thoroughly), to God and himself, and how he wants the world to be able to see his soul, rather than just his physical, larger-than-life presence (the bird’s spectacular flight, food choices etc), he wants the world to see him as a human being with a large heart and a humble presence. Just like he wants to find peace of mind, and he makes it patent by lovingly describing the other bird, the quiet, invisible one, sounding as though he himself would want to identify with its nature, of being anonymous, invisible and at peace („your silence is so precious”)..He must be that mysterious too, because he wants to find equilibrium between the very seen and the very unseen. This reminds me of what you said about Wall-E’s theme, and when he founds a female robot, meaning someone of the same kind that could understand him, Wall-E seemingly trying to break free from his ‚unconfortable’ condition and wanting to do things that free human beings can do. Michael drew this little robot, too, on occasion of the L’Uomo Vogue issue, with the message: „I don’t want to be a robot”, doing perfect things all the time that are imposed by others, meaning he doesn’t want to be controlled, he wants to be able to breathe from that ‚invisible air” of the freer bird he extols..
From the same rare interview I mentioned to you before (from 1991), where he said how he would like his ideal person to be, he also said that, at the time, there was ‚no one special’ in his life, which adds to the meaning of the poem, and also, he added „No one knows the real Michael”, and this could tie with what he says about the other bird, the silent one no one knows about or no one has seen, meaning he identifies with both birds..He often feels misunderstood, prompting him to conclude such drastically..
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ME

Yes it was exactly that. Those three interpretations. The one, which sounds fairly obvious is that it could be about him, and a love who watches him without interference, who no one has seen (including himself??) and who's song can be heard in his (his perfect love..often sung about in his songs), who is free, and how he longs for the day when they hear her song in his (also interesting that he never refers to the bird as either male or female so the other interpretations can come about as well, which are (for me..and you):
The one bird is God and the other himself. Gods love never interferes, they don't have his picture. He watches while the one is doing and experiencing (eating cherries, like the other two birds poem, flying through the air, singing his song etc). How long till they hear Gods song in his? Well really I couldn't say it all better than the poem does. It seems so clearly about God when thinking of it that way.
And the third way being he is talking about the two aspects of himself. How can they understand his own mystery when they have never seen him fully? Not seen the soul of him. They don't have a picture of his soul. The part of him that is free, the part that looks on and doesn't interfere.

When he was married the first time, he still sung about being lonely („YANA”: „I’m still all alone” ; or in „Stranger in Moscow”: „I’m living lonely!”), being intent in what he sung..He was married, but he never lived with LMP, but ocasionally, and he never lived with Debbie Rowe either, even though he loved both of them, especially the former..After his first divorce, he said something along the lines that it wasn’t mean to be and you have to respect that, him being awfully Destiny-guided too. „Invincible” the album spoke a lot about loneliness again, and he even said in the LWMJ documentary that ‚if there is a girl”, he would give her jewelry and things like that, basically answering there isn’t one, or, most of all, the one; and in 2004, during the trial, he gave an interview to director and friend Bret Rattner, where he would list his favorite songs, some about loneliness, others about a lost childhood and others about the world’s well-being / problems..So, it’s pretty much conclusive adding that he wasn’t with her in the flesh all that time..And even before, otherwise he wouldn’t have married, and would have waited for her..In 2008, „For All Time” was released, an unexpected choice for „Thriller 25”, theme-wise, composition-wise etc, speaking again of the future, of his hope that his words could warm her in his absence or until they finally meet, either for the first time, or in the flesh for the first time. It again sounds like a distance type of love „if you feel alone” / ‚for this good love undeceiving, I’d go anywhere”..He’d do anything to find this kind of love, he’d ‚sail the seven seas to be near her’, like he sings in „One More Chance”..
So, I don’t mean to sound too mystical, and I only gave a few song examples, but I think he still fights for these ideals, whether he knows who she is or prays that she is there somewhere..Somehow, I don’t feel a 2 persons presence , except from, maybe, at a distance..And those songs like „Break Of Dawn” or „Beautiful Girl” or „The Way You Love Me” could be based on either memories or on his idealist imagination, and they are contrast with some others, like, when you’d think he finally found her, you realize he actually didn’t, and he’d be singing like that all his life. He could have went online a few times to confess about his love and what he expects in return, I don’t know, but if he did indeed inserted a certain somebody in his latest message addressed to his fans, he isn’t with her yet, but feels her presence like he has said in those poems or songs..
Sorry about these long posts. I wanted to offer my own personal opinion, of course, and also that based on a gut-feeling, somehow, or the fact that he is such a perfectionist about everything, and even based on practically all the astrology interpretations of him I came across..And if, every bit of a song or lyric could prove to undergo such fierce manipulations and high expectations, this could tie with him saying he wants to find a love that is so divine and perfect and pure and such..That is him, and if these lines make sense, I hope he doesn’t end up being alone..): Especially since all his life, he has had this restless soul of wanting to help other people all the time, with little care to his own needs, thus him ending up to be used that many times, and he is still saying how much he wants to please his fans and do everything he can for them, or for his children, and he rarely ever mentions himself personally, except for when it has to do with his career..I do sympathize with that, because he has been hurt countless times before, and wants to be wary, and as he said years ago, he is ‚suspicious’, or in the phone tapes..I think he realizes today that he too could use peace of mind, a little more focus to himself, hopefully..If we can say that, given such information, or portions of it, we have to wait and see what his new album will disclose, so that we know of his current situation for sure..
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ME
That is true, it doesn't seem like he is with the one, if he has found her... and maybe he is not sure if he has found her or not.. but it does seem he has found someone who could be the one for him. I can see it is due to you caring about him that you think of all these things. How can we really help him though I wonder. Would posting these thoughts help him? Maybe to help others see, and possibly understand him more? and to finally accept when he does meet the one or find her. Because I can't see him going through his life with all this love and not having someone to return that same love to him. Not in the way that fans do (that is also important I guess...but a lonely sort of love) but in a companion type of love. Really, I don't think the fans have to accept her at all (though I do think most would love to see him happy) but it isn't our place to say whether he is with the right one, or whether he should be with this one or that... it is not our lives, but his, and the lady's. So maybe by posting what you have written, it will show how much he does long for that love. the Real everlasting divine type love that doesn't decieve. Maybe if they see that, they won't want to do one thing to interfere because it is his wish and what he longs for


---------
And I see now.. not interfering seems to be a theme.
 
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Here comes the poem. 'The last Tear". It's on page 86 and follows "Two Birds".

Give me a few minutes, eating a snack.
 
The Last Tear

Your words stabbed my heart, and I cried tears of pain.
"Get out!" I shouted. '"These are the last tears I'll ever
cry for you." So you left.
I WAITED hours, but you didn't return. That night by
myself I cried tears of frustration.
I WAITED weeks, but you had nothing to say. Thinking
of your voice, I cried tears of LONELINESS.
I WAITED months, but you left no sign for me. In the
depths of my heart, I cried tears of DESPAIR.

How strange that all these tears could not wash
away the hurt! Then one thought of love pierced my
bitterness. I remembered you in the sunlight, with a
smile as sweet as May wine. A tear of gratitude started
to fall, and miraculousy, you were back. Soft fingers
touched my cheek, and you bent over for a kiss.
"Why have you come?" I whispered.
"To wipe away your last tear," you replied. "It was the
one you saved for me".


Michael's clues tell us now that this woman has come back to him.
 
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