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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Edit - so good to hear Thomas is now president of the LCA. Well deserved. That makes me happy. Good news!
 
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">congratulations President Tom! Also, he’s now working with the estate! <a href="https://t.co/besfWPnC0P">pic.twitter.com/besfWPnC0P</a></p>&mdash; Keen Zhang (@mkgenie) <a href="https://twitter.com/mkgenie/status/1213236894156242944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">3. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So while the media is stuck rehashing the same old tabloid BS, getting more irrelevant by the minute, and missing out on the chance to tell the story of the greatest entertainer of all time, Michael´s fans have grown up to become world class filmmakers. <br><br>That is just poetic.</p>&mdash; Samuel Mesterton (@sammesterton) <a href="https://twitter.com/sammesterton/status/1213133817420103680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">3. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lets hope so!</p>&mdash; John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) <a href="https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1213291724551774208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">4. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Spotify telling us as it is. Look who they choose for the cover of their All Time Greatest playlist! <a href="https://t.co/1IkRFrbChW">pic.twitter.com/1IkRFrbChW</a></p>&mdash; Justice for The Falsely Accused (@JuliaBerkowitz1) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/status/1213352181908361221?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">4. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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Paris78;4278235 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So while the media is stuck rehashing the same old tabloid BS, getting more irrelevant by the minute, and missing out on the chance to tell the story of the greatest entertainer of all time, Michael´s fans have grown up to become world class filmmakers. <br><br>That is just poetic.</p>&mdash; Samuel Mesterton (@sammesterton) <a href="https://twitter.com/sammesterton/status/1213133817420103680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">3. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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I watched this yesterday and it is AWESOME!!! Beautiful cinematography, great production, great story line and professionalism. The way this was put together is theater worthy.

It tells the story of Michael’s music and dance in a creative and interesting way.

Michael has the BEST FANS in the world.

Square One and now this wonderful film. I can’t wait for Taj’s film.
 
somewhereinthedark;4278243 said:
I watched this yesterday and it is AWESOME!!! Beautiful cinematography, great production, great story line and professionalism. The way this was put together is theater worthy.

It tells the story of Michael&#8217;s music and dance in a creative and interesting way.

Michael has the BEST FANS in the world.

Square One and now this wonderful film. I can&#8217;t wait for Taj&#8217;s film.
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I feel like we should have a new thread for this film. It may spark a couple of good conversations. Would you like to start the thread? :)
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Weitzman's statement on the media's claim that Robson's and Safechuck's lawsuits have been &quot;revived&quot;. <a href="https://t.co/9A0781cFhw">pic.twitter.com/9A0781cFhw</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1213581567462797312?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">4. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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This is not MJ related but I just wanted someones opinion on this. I saw this on twitter. Apparently someone called Ricky Garcia is suing his manager and he and his mother are now speaking out about pedophile rings in Hollywood. This is the mother but is she actually accusing Corey Feldman of beeing part of a pedophile ring or do you think she means he was a victim in a pedophile ring. To me it sounds like she is accusing him. https://twitter.com/Tiff_FitzHenry/status/1213287886092734465
 
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i am confused. Joy testified that the whole family went to the grant canyons. The lie that Wade was left behind with MJ was debunked.

but why did he sent this email to Joy:

bbT5WQd.jpg


And what "several versions" did she mean?

Can somone clarify this situation please?
 
Glanni said:
i am confused. Joy testified that the whole family went to the grant canyons. The lie that Wade was left behind with MJ was debunked.

but why did he sent this email to Joy:

bbT5WQd.jpg


And what "several versions" did she mean?

Can somone clarify this situation please?
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These emails appear to be from the time when Wade was first establishing a narrative about the family's visits to MJ, in order to sue. Other emails make it clear that Wade remembered nothing, as he asked his mom whole 'topic' questions like ' how did we get in contact with MJ, how did we get to visit Neverland that first time, how did we get there etc. So this sounds like part of that email series. (He even asks his mom something like 'How was I, when the cops visited us in '93' - ie he doesn't even recall his own experiences).

His mom has already made it clear in three testimonies under oath (in 1993 for the Grand Jury, in 2005 in court and in her 2016 deposition) that Shane did not accompany the family on the 'Disney performance' visit, and that only Wade and Chantal were with her, plus her husband and parents. This is also borne out by the fact that Shane was never called to give testimony, whereas Chantal was. In each testimony, Joy states clearly that 'she and her kids' (plural) went to the Grand Canyon after the 1st weekend at NL, and then came back the next weekend.

Since there was no reason for Joy to lie in her 1993 and 2005 testimonies, I think we can be certain that 'both' her kids who came on this visit went to the Grand Canyon.

By the time Wade is writing his emails in July 2012, Joy is clearly talking about different versions of the narrative 'that will benefit him'. This indicates that Joy is helping Wade to create a different narrative about the visits, although she seems to have forgotten about this by the time she testifies in her deposition in September 2016. That's the problem with lies. You have to remember them all, and make them make sense with what you've already said.

Of note, Robson's 'begging' letter for the MJ job to Francois at Cirque was dated 21 May 2011, and the job was given to Jamie King around August 2011.

https://leavingneverlandfacts.com/wade-robson-email-to-cirque-du-soleil-on-5-21-2011/

Timeline:
In Nov 10 first (only) son was born
April- Aug 2011 First nervous breakdown
March 2012 2nd Nervous breakdown
mid April 2012 began therapy
8th May 2012 - therapist recognised 'abuse'

https://www.scribd.com/document/397879523/Wade-Robson-Declaration-Apr-30-2013
 
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myosotis said:
That's the problem with lies. You have to remember them all, and make them make sense with what you've already said.
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While those who speak the truth only have to say what they know for sure and it will always be consistent. Easy. :)
 
myosotis said:
These emails appear to be from the time when Wade was first establishing a narrative about the family's visits to MJ, in order to sue. Other emails make it clear that Wade remembered nothing, as he asked his mom whole 'topic' questions like ' how did we get in contact with MJ, how did we get to visit Neverland that first time, how did we get there etc. So this sounds like part of that email series. (He even asks his mom something like 'How was I, when the cops visited us in '93' - ie he doesn't even recall his own experiences).

His mom has already made it clear in three testimonies under oath (in 1993 for the Grand Jury, in 2005 in court and in her 2016 deposition) that Shane did not accompany the family on the 'Disney performance' visit, and that only Wade and Chantal were with her, plus her husband and parents. This is also borne out by the fact that Shane was never called to give testimony, whereas Chantal was. In each testimony, Joy states clearly that 'she and her kids' (plural) went to the Grand Canyon after the 1st weekend at NL, and then came back the next weekend.

Since there was no reason for Joy to lie in her 1993 and 2005 testimonies, I think we can be certain that 'both' her kids who came on this visit went to the Grand Canyon.

By the time Wade is writing his emails in July 2012, Joy is clearly talking about different versions of the narrative 'that will benefit him'. This indicates that Joy is helping Wade to create a different narrative about the visits, although she seems to have forgotten about this by the time she testifies in her deposition in September 2016. That's the problem with lies. You have to remember them all, and make them make sense with what you've already said.

Of note, Robson's 'begging' letter for the MJ job to Francois at Cirque was dated 21 May 2011, and the job was given to Jamie King around August 2011.

https://leavingneverlandfacts.com/wade-robson-email-to-cirque-du-soleil-on-5-21-2011/

Timeline:
In Nov 10 first (only) son was born
April- Aug 2011 First nervous breakdown
March 2012 2nd Nervous breakdown
mid April 2012 began therapy
8th May 2012 - therapist recognised 'abuse'

https://www.scribd.com/document/397879523/Wade-Robson-Declaration-Apr-30-2013
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I hope the estate has all of this to use in court .
 
terrell;4278584 said:
I hope the estate has all of this to use in court .
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I’m sure they do. And if they didn’t, they do now. IMHO, it’s very likely they have someone monitoring this forum and other relevant websites.
Hi, “guest”. :hellooo:
 
Thats basic stuff. If they arent aware of such info as its basically his first claim then they need to go work in mcdonalds!
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After watching the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/aktespezial?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#aktespezial</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> documentary by <a href="https://twitter.com/NadjaPWagner?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NadjaPWagner</a><br>on &#127465;&#127466; tv <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Sat1?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Sat1</a> <br>Moonwalkers be like..... <a href="https://t.co/W1RaV1mqHv">pic.twitter.com/W1RaV1mqHv</a></p>&mdash; &#9734;MJsSunny&#9734; (@MJs_SUNNY) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJs_SUNNY/status/1214956240356417536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">8. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">To me personally, the most heartbreaking part was to see the Schleiter girl choke up and needing a moment while having to listen to the false allegations in that NAMBLA porn called LN. A dignified, honest family, never over the top - and yet it was too much for them too. <a href="https://t.co/qlFrtTa9Gc">https://t.co/qlFrtTa9Gc</a></p>&mdash; Mike Salazar (@MikeSalazar777) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeSalazar777/status/1214436655630888961?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">7. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Prosecutor Zonen (by no means a friend of MJ): “There was no child pornography. There were no videos involving children. There were videos that were seized but they were conventional adult sexually graphic material. No children involved.” <a href="https://t.co/9VGTYFW1p1">https://t.co/9VGTYFW1p1</a></p>&mdash; Justice for The Falsely Accused (@JuliaBerkowitz1) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/status/1214962509930782722?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">8. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
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terrell said:
I hope the estate has all of this to use in court .
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The Estate does indeed have all this. And it's publicly available online eg in court docs etc.
So it's clear that all those 'journalists' who say they have done so much research and still 'believe the victims' have ignored the evidence. Which means that their reporting is intentionally biased. As fans have been saying for decades.
 
DifferentKindOfLady;4278151 said:
She must have been aware. She said those things about MJ too. Yeah, she said Jack Gordon made her say those things, but is that really the truth? He was a punk definitely, but she always seeked the attention she never got (she can´t sing well and yesterday I saw on youtube a video of her singing shake your body, and I was terrified! She ruined the song! And she even tried to imitate MJ which she FAILED). Latoya is no saint and I never know when she´s telling the truth. I never liked her. I love Michael since I was 5 and I hate Latoya pretty much around that time too.
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I do not think she knows the guy; however, to me, it does not matter. I do not dislike latoya but I will NEVER trust her no matter if she is talking positive or negative about anything. I am sure MJ forgave her; however, as someone who respect Michael, respect family, respect people who speak truth, I will never trust anything Latoya say. The bottom line is Latoya was jealous of Michael's MEGA success. She was always viewed as the LEAST talented Jackson. She tied to USED MJ's name to push her playboy book (look how it was advertised with MJ's name like 'do not tell Michael", etc as if MJ was the only sibling she had. As for Jack Gordon, Jack Gordon was able to get to Latoya because he was able to prey on her insecurity and jealousy she had for MJ (and even her family).As we say with dealing with people who get "con", people who get "con" get "con" because they thought they were going to take something from someone else. That was her plan. Also, if MJ was an abuser, you can believe Latoya would have had that in her 1988 book when she talked about her father regardless if she was lying or not on Joe. When the false claim came out in 1993, Latoya defended MJ on Geraldo to Howard Stern UNTIL Dec 1993 when she and Jack wanted a piece of the action. Yes, Jack started abusing Latoya (notice she never wore sun glasses to do interviews until DURING/AFTER Dec 1993) but that was because she made a deal with the devil; in other words, "do not dig a ditch for someone else, it could be YOUR OWN"; and when it came back on her, Latoya went back to her family. See, that is what lies do and this is going to happen to these liars. Even Jordan does not have peace always having to try to avoid parazzo and pictures and even Garvin was running from the camera trying to cover his face with his shirt. Until they clear MJ's name from these lies, these liars will never have peace (all for the LOVE of $$$$$).​
 
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myosotis said:
The Estate does indeed have all this. And it's publicly available online eg in court docs etc.
So it's clear that all those 'journalists' who say they have done so much research and still 'believe the victims' have ignored the evidence. Which means that their reporting is intentionally biased. As fans have been saying for decades.
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I hope the blessing come out of this even more is to expose the lying media. Social media has taken a lot of the media's power. Yes, the media is still powerful but no where near what they use to be.
 
terrell said:
I do not think she knows the guy; however, to me, it does not matter. I do not dislike latoya but I will NEVER trust her no matter if she is talking positive or negative about anything. I am sure MJ forgave her; however, as someone who respect Michael, respect family, respect people who speak truth, I will never trust anything Latoya say. The bottom line is Latoya was jealous of Michael's MEGA success. She was always viewed as the LEAST talented Jackson. She tied to USED MJ's name to push her playboy book (look how it was advertised with MJ's name like 'do not tell Michael", etc as if MJ was the only sibling she had. As for Jack Gordon, Jack Gordon was able to get to Latoya because he was able to prey on her insecurity and jealousy she had for MJ (and even her family).As we say with dealing with people who get "con", people who get "con" get "con" because they thought they were going to take something from someone else. That was her plan. Also, if MJ was an abuser, you can believe Latoya would have had that in her 1988 book when she talked about her father regardless if she was lying or not on Joe. When the false claim came out in 1993, Latoya defended MJ on Geraldo to Howard Stern UNTIL Dec 1993 when she and Jack wanted a piece of the action. Yes, Jack started abusing Latoya (notice she never wore sun glasses to do interviews until DURING/AFTER Dec 1993) but that was because she made a deal with the devil; in other words, "do not dig a ditch for someone else, it could be YOUR OWN"; and when it came back on her, Latoya went back to her family. See, that is what lies do and this is going to happen to these liars. Even Jordan does not have peace always having to try to avoid parazzo and pictures and even Garvin was running from the camera trying to cover his face with his shirt. Until they clear MJ's name from these lies, these liars will never have peace (all for the LOVE of $$$$$).​
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I agree with your statements about LaToya. You are saying the exact same things that me and my family have said for years.
 
terrell;4278627 said:
I do not think she knows the guy; however, to me, it does not matter. I do not dislike latoya but I will NEVER trust her no matter if she is talking positive or negative about anything. I am sure MJ forgave her; however, as someone who respect Michael, respect family, respect people who speak truth, I will never trust anything Latoya say. The bottom line is Latoya was jealous of Michael's MEGA success. She was always viewed as the LEAST talented Jackson. She tied to USED MJ's name to push her playboy book (look how it was advertised with MJ's name like 'do not tell Michael", etc as if MJ was the only sibling she had. As for Jack Gordon, Jack Gordon was able to get to Latoya because he was able to prey on her insecurity and jealousy she had for MJ (and even her family).As we say with dealing with people who get "con", people who get "con" get "con" because they thought they were going to take something from someone else. That was her plan. Also, if MJ was an abuser, you can believe Latoya would have had that in her 1988 book when she talked about her father regardless if she was lying or not on Joe. When the false claim came out in 1993, Latoya defended MJ on Geraldo to Howard Stern UNTIL Dec 1993 when she and Jack wanted a piece of the action. Yes, Jack started abusing Latoya (notice she never wore sun glasses to do interviews until DURING/AFTER Dec 1993) but that was because she made a deal with the devil; in other words, "do not dig a ditch for someone else, it could be YOUR OWN"; and when it came back on her, Latoya went back to her family. See, that is what lies do and this is going to happen to these liars. Even Jordan does not have peace always having to try to avoid parazzo and pictures and even Garvin was running from the camera trying to cover his face with his shirt. Until they clear MJ's name from these lies, these liars will never have peace (all for the LOVE of $$$$$).​
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LaToya made three statements if I remember correctly. The first one, right after the allegations came out that she was sure he was innocent, a few months later that &#8221;we can&#8217;t know for sure&#8221; or something like that and then in december suddenly that he was guilty. I completely agree about the book. I also think that Janets sudden success was hard to handle for her. Listen to &#8221;Nasty&#8221; and then &#8221;You&#8217;re gonna get rocked&#8221; right after it and I think there are definetely similarities, it is like a slower version. I think she was a bit bitter, she was in her 30s and never really had her own life and she did want revenge but Jack Gordon abused her and hit her.
 
I feel sorry that latoya was abused by gordon but like many of you have said its hard to trust her given that she said in 93 but who knows maybe gordon did fact put words into her mouth
 
8701girl said:
I feel sorry that latoya was abused by gordon but like many of you have said its hard to trust her given that she said in 93 but who knows maybe gordon did fact put words into her mouth
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He put words in her mouth but she was a WILLING party. There is no lie like that that anyone could make me say about my brother and people who I do know who lie on their brother/sister like she did are JEALOUS people.
 
terrell said:
I do not think she knows the guy; however, to me, it does not matter. I do not dislike latoya but I will NEVER trust her no matter if she is talking positive or negative about anything. I am sure MJ forgave her; however, as someone who respect Michael, respect family, respect people who speak truth, I will never trust anything Latoya say. The bottom line is Latoya was jealous of Michael's MEGA success. She was always viewed as the LEAST talented Jackson. She tied to USED MJ's name to push her playboy book (look how it was advertised with MJ's name like 'do not tell Michael", etc as if MJ was the only sibling she had. As for Jack Gordon, Jack Gordon was able to get to Latoya because he was able to prey on her insecurity and jealousy she had for MJ (and even her family).As we say with dealing with people who get "con", people who get "con" get "con" because they thought they were going to take something from someone else. That was her plan. Also, if MJ was an abuser, you can believe Latoya would have had that in her 1988 book when she talked about her father regardless if she was lying or not on Joe. When the false claim came out in 1993, Latoya defended MJ on Geraldo to Howard Stern UNTIL Dec 1993 when she and Jack wanted a piece of the action. Yes, Jack started abusing Latoya (notice she never wore sun glasses to do interviews until DURING/AFTER Dec 1993) but that was because she made a deal with the devil; in other words, "do not dig a ditch for someone else, it could be YOUR OWN"; and when it came back on her, Latoya went back to her family. See, that is what lies do and this is going to happen to these liars. Even Jordan does not have peace always having to try to avoid parazzo and pictures and even Garvin was running from the camera trying to cover his face with his shirt. Until they clear MJ's name from these lies, these liars will never have peace (all for the LOVE of $$$$$).​
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Jordan will turn 40 in two days now. I wish he could have a midlife crisis and get in touch with Taj Jackson but I wonder if he would ever speak up if the media would just say he was paid to do it.
 
terrell said:
Do NOT ever rule nothing out.
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Exactly. However faint, I do hold hope that one day, however distant (or not), Jordan Chandler will be brave enough to tell the world the truth about his father's horrid schemes. He was a child when all those lies were fabricated and used, but as an adult he doesn't have much, if any excuse.

I guess I would understand his reluctance to put himself out there and the media may say all kinds of crap and also some people may not believe him. But the media, with each passing month is losing more and more credibility. I truly don't think he should worry about any of those losers. Not only that, but the psychological and spiritual reward for clearing up the name of a most decent man, who did nothing but help him as a youngster, would be priceless.

As I've said multiple times, we truly don't have to get our hopes up about it, because we could be in for a huge disappointment or a still very long wait. If not sooner, perhaps it will be same as it was with Emmett Till - even if decades after, I am convinced Michael's name will one day be completely cleared and vindicated. I don't even need to be around for such an awesome, historical moment, just as long as it does happen.
 
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