Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

However faint, I do hold hope that one day, however distant (or not), Jordan Chandler will be brave enough to tell the world the truth about his father's horrid schemes. He was a child when all those lies were fabricated and used, but as an adult he doesn't have much, if any excuse.

I think on twitter there was a conversation about how normal is that Zonen is still in close contact with the Arvizos (not to mention how usual is to marry one of your witnesses...). Someone brought up that maybe to ensure Gavin won't ever tell the truth about the case - not that there's much chance for that, but it's best to make it sure anyway. I'm not saying that's definitely the case but it's not a far-fetched idea either.

With Chandler we usually wonder about his conscience, or if he just enjoys his money, or if he fears the reaction of fans, media, etc... What if he fears the prosecution too? Who knows what kind of pressure they gave him - and we know about their pressuring methods even when interrogating children, not resorting from lying to them, even sort of threatening them. Again, I don't know if that's the case, and I don't mean this as an excuse for Chandler either. But there were a lot of shady dealings in this case, so I wouldn't rule out something similar either.
 
ozemouze;4278677 said:
I think on twitter there was a conversation about how normal is that Zonen is still in close contact with the Arvizos (not to mention how usual is to marry one of your witnesses...). Someone brought up that maybe to ensure Gavin won't ever tell the truth about the case - not that there's much chance for that, but it's best to make it sure anyway. I'm not saying that's definitely the case but it's not a far-fetched idea either.

With Chandler we usually wonder about his conscience, or if he just enjoys his money, or if he fears the reaction of fans, media, etc... What if he fears the prosecution too? Who knows what kind of pressure they gave him - and we know about their pressuring methods even when interrogating children, not resorting from lying to them, even sort of threatening them. Again, I don't know if that's the case, and I don't mean this as an excuse for Chandler either. But there were a lot of shady dealings in this case, so I wouldn't rule out something similar either.
I think you have a point and think of what Gutierrez and Dimond has been saying about him for the past 26 years. He would have to go up against them as well. But it was interesting to hear what Josephine Zohny had to say in the Square one documentary, the part there she was defending Michael after Living with Michael Jackson and he joined the discussion by himself and said he didn’t think Michael was capable of sexually abusing somebody.
 
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'Kew Media' continues to nosedive... LOL.

Exclusive: Kew Media Group’s restructuring process revealed

......Kew was funded by an IPO and is listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange, where its share price has nose dived from C$6.14 in mid-November to C$0.83 today, valuing the group at just under C$12m. The outfit announced late last year that lenders had provided notice of an event of default under its senior credit facilities, which Kew said was due to the “inaccurate information” provided to them by former CFO Webb.

Kew has not yet responded to a request for comment.

https://tbivision.com/2020/01/09/exclusive-kew-media-groups-restructuring-process-revealed/


(That's another drop from 11th December 19, when :
The news sent shares down by more than 35% to C$2.42 ($1.84)

https://tbivision.com/2019/12/11/ke...-company-considers-sale-cfo-geoff-webb-exits/
 
They will always have an excuse. Not that theres any chance anyway
It would not matter what anyone thinks (it barely matters now) if he clear this lie. That will only prove even more that some people want to believe the lie if they make an excuse but they will get over it.
 
La74;4278680 said:
I think you have a point and think of what Gutierrez and Dimond has been saying about him for the past 26 years. He would have to go up against them as well. But it was interesting to hear what Josephine Zohny had to say in the Square one documentary, the part there she was defending Michael after Living with Michael Jackson and he joined the discussion by himself and said he didn’t think Michael was capable of sexually abusing somebody.
It would not (still do not) matter what those two tabloid/scum would think. There would be nothing they can do or say especially with their track record (his book was banned and Diamond is a joke now and it would be even worst and more stupid than she already does because was also FIRED from Courttv after they followed her nonsense for the trial
 
I love this new movie "Just Mercy" which featuring Jamie Foxx and Michael B Jordan. This comes at a great time as well. I love Michael B Jordan on "The View" yesterday and his comment on how of color/blacks are often viewed 'guilty" and it the MEDIA, Perceptions the media want to show, etc (paraphrasing) bias, etc. It comes at a great time. Hope it be NUMBER ONE. And when we show facts of MJ case, people will have this film in mind
 
Can anyone recommend to me the most comprehensive, well made and fair rebuttal documentary of Leaving Neverland?
 
Can anyone recommend to me the most comprehensive, well made and fair rebuttal documentary of Leaving Neverland?

The 'quickest' and most efficient at covering the points is probably 'Lies of Leaving Neverland' which includes clips of Wade and his mom giving their legal depositions in Jan 17/ Sept 16 respectively. This one covers all the issues with LN including the deceptive editing, railway station construction dates etc etc.

My problem with it is that it's a bit like an anti-LN 'advert' ie it doesn't engage the emotions, just covers the points without making you feel anything about MJ's character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXOfz1YkWeA



The one I prefer is Liam McEwan's interview doc 'Neverland Firsthand', which engages you much more in MJ's character and life, by allowing you to hear from Brandi and Taj, and others eg the 05 defence team, Brad Sundberg etc. I would probably have put the interviews in a different order, with Taj nearer the start (maybe after Brandi) , but Brandi is interviewed first and is very 'real' and convincing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4trDbeFWTY



A 'fun' alternative for anyone who doesn't mind a lot of bad language (and who knows a bit about the truth already), Razorfist did a great rebuttal which coruscates the sheep-like media and mj haters in general for their wholesale bias and blindness in not seeing the obvious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYx0vLfpRYY

 
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Oprah Exits a Me Too Documentary about DefJam’s Russell Simmons After Filmmakers Change Course Away from Harvey Weinstein as Subject

Oprah Winfrey is certainly in the news right now. It seem she’s been busy advising Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, if reports are correct.

But Oprah is also involved in another surprising scenario. She was listed as executive producer of a documentary about rap music impresario and philanthropist Russell Simmons. The founder of Def Jam Records almost immediately became embroiled in the #MeToo movement after accusations of small time sexual malfeasance and rape. He was the subject of lawsuits as well. Simmons shut down his charity and businesses and moved to Tibet, where’s been posting photos and videos of meditation retreats and so on.

The documentary, by Kirby Dick and Amy Ziering, is premiering at the Sundance Film Festival on January 25th. But now Oprah has suddenly pulled out of the project, and decided not to include it in her presentations on AppleTV+. The film will still premiere at the festival, but it now lacks Winfrey’s imprint.

Dick and Ziering are highly regarded doc makers. Their “The Hunting Ground” was nominated for lots of awards and was shown on CNN. The pair have issued a statement after Oprah announced she was off the project because it wasn’t ready, in her opinion. The filmmakers told Deadline.com: “Revealing hard truths is never easy, and the women in our documentary are all showing extraordinary strength and courage by raising their voices to address sexual abuse in the music industry. While we are disappointed that Oprah Winfrey is no longer an Executive Producer on the project, we are gratified that Winfrey has unequivocally said she believes and supports the survivors in the film.”

But this isn’t the first time Oprah has caused a major problem for Dick and Ziering on this same film. The doc was originally going to be centered on Harvey Weinstein and how the #MeToo era launched. In October 2017 just two weeks after Weinstein was exposed in the New York Times and the New Yorker, the pair announced they were making the film.

This past December, however, Dick and Ziering announced that their film had changed focus, to the record business and “major figure.” Oprah was suddenly on board. Weinstein was no longer being discussed, as Simmons took his place.

So now there’s no Weinstein film, and Oprah has dealt the filmmakers a significant blow by making a public exit. She’s also declared their film somehow unfit for release, at least under her auspices.

All of this comes a year after Oprah unwisely involved herself in the Michael Jackson documentary, “Leaving Neverland.” After the film– which accused Jackson of child molestation with no evidence other than two young men’s unfounded complaints– Oprah did a live interview with the subjects on HBO. Again, without supporting evidence, she simply decided they were telling the truth.

We’re getting into a strange area here where Oprah makes the call, based on her gut feeling, about which victims have validity and which don’t. Jackson was dead, so it was easy for her to go against him. In the cases of Weinstein and Simmons, she can’t be objective. Weinstein put her in the movie “The Butler,” in which she garnered great reviews. She also got an Oscar campaign and became very friendly with the movie mogul.

In Simmons’ case, he and Oprah are long time friends. Back in December, Simmons took to Instagram to urge Oprah to stop the film once he learned she was involved with it. She obviously took what he said seriously. (See his plea below.)

It’s hoped that Dick and Ziering will find a new distributor or platform at Sundance now that Oprah is gone. Like Winfrey, I’ve known and liked Simmons for years and years. But the accusations against him are serious and must be aired, and discussed. I also hope that these filmmakers, unlike the director of “Leaving Neverland,” have presented all sides of the stories.

Here’s what Simmons wrote to Oprah:

“Dearest OPRAH,you have been a shining light to my family and my community. Contributing so much to my life that I couldn’t list a fraction of it in this blog.Ihave given you the gift of meditation and the groundbreaking book”THE POWER OF NOW “we bonded to say the least. This is why it’s so troubling that you choose me to single out in your recent documentry. I have already admitted to being a playboy more (appropriately titled today “womanizer”) sleeping with and putting myself in more compromising situations than almost any man I know. Not 8 or 14 thousand like Warren Beatty or Wilt Chamberlain, but still an embarrassing number. So many that some could reinterpret or reimagine a different recollection of the same experiences. Please note that ur producers said that this upcoming doc was to focus ONLY on 3 hand chosen women. I have refused to get in the mud with any accusers, but let’s acknowledge what i have shared. I have taken and passed nine 3-hour lie detector tests (taken for my daughters), that these stories have been passed on by CNN, NBC, BUZZFEED, NY POST, NY MAG, AND OTHERS. Now that you have reviewed the facts and you SHOULD have learned what I know; that these stories are UNUSABLE and that “hurt people hurt people”. Today I received a call from an old girlfriend from the early 1980s which means that they are using my words/evidence against me and their COMMITMENT/ (all of the claims are 25 to 40 years old) It is impossible to prove what happened 40 years ago, but in my case proof exists of what didn’t happen, mostly signed letters from their own parents, siblings, roommates, band members, interns, and in the case of 2 of your 3 accusers,their own words in their books. Shocking how many people have misused this important powerful revolution for relevance and money. … In closing, I am guilty of exploiting, supporting, and making the soundtrack for a grossly unequal society, but i have never been violent or forced myself on anyone. Still I am here to help support a necessary shift in power and consciousness. Let us get to work on uplifting humanity and put this moment and old narrative behind us”

https://www.showbiz411.com/2020/01/11/oprah-exits-a-me-too-documentary-about-defjams-russell-simmons-after-filmmakers-change-course-away-from-harvey-weinstein-as-subject
 
^Extraordinarily true reporting, Especially this section:

All of this comes a year after Oprah unwisely involved herself in the Michael Jackson documentary, “Leaving Neverland.” After the film– which accused Jackson of child molestation with no evidence other than two young men’s unfounded complaints– Oprah did a live interview with the subjects on HBO. Again, without supporting evidence, she simply decided they were telling the truth.

We’re getting into a strange area here where Oprah makes the call, based on her gut feeling, about which victims have validity and which don’t. Jackson was dead, so it was easy for her to go against him. In the cases of Weinstein and Simmons, she can’t be objective. Weinstein put her in the movie “The Butler,” in which she garnered great reviews. She also got an Oscar campaign and became very friendly with the movie mogul.

In Simmons’ case, he and Oprah are long time friends...
 
:lmao::lmao::lmao:Serves that suck up cow right! Karma's on her @$$ now!:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
But this isn’t the first time Oprah has caused a major problem for Dick and Ziering on this same film. The doc was originally going to be centered on Harvey Weinstein and how the #MeToo era launched. In October 2017 just two weeks after Weinstein was exposed in the New York Times and the New Yorker, the pair announced they were making the film.

This past December, however, Dick and Ziering announced that their film had changed focus, to the record business and “major figure.” Oprah was suddenly on board. Weinstein was no longer being discussed, as Simmons took his place.
So now there’s no Weinstein film, and Oprah has dealt the filmmakers a significant blow by making a public exit. She’s also declared their film somehow unfit for release, at least under her auspices.



See this is what people even 50 cent was talking about. She just got busted and was called out and now trying to down play it. There is more against Harvey Weinstein than Russell and MJ was more innocent than both these men. She care about nothing. She cares only about what would sell for her. If this was about caring for black women, there are plenty of CREDITABLITY cases that she could have done to focus on the issue; but no, Oprah was willing to go after easy targets while ignoring Weinstein. With this latest, people, especially blacks, see through her BS.
 
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does anyone know where the wade interview with the police is from? it was part of the new AKTE doku. do we have that audio already?! i have never heard it before.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;Oprah unwisely involved herself in the Michael Jackson documentary, “Leaving Neverland.”.....without supporting evidence, she simply decided they were telling the truth.&quot; <a href="https://t.co/97YO5O346T">https://t.co/97YO5O346T</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/showbiz411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@showbiz411</a></p>&mdash; Leaving Neverland Facts (@NeverlandFacts) <a href="https://twitter.com/NeverlandFacts/status/1215895735717122049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">11. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="de"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"> <a href="https://t.co/HxppR2vVF8">pic.twitter.com/HxppR2vVF8</a></p>&mdash; MJJJusticeProject (@MJJJusticePrjct) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJJusticePrjct/status/1216007074514997248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">11. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverland?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverland</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverlandisFraud?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverlandisFraud</a><br>Dan Reed: I did do a huge amount of research into the 1993 case, Jordie chandler case.<br>Also Dan Reed: I don't know that well the story of Jordan Chandler's father.<br>Can you define Huge to us Dan? Jordie's father was behind the allegations <a href="https://t.co/xVdpxdx5i8">pic.twitter.com/xVdpxdx5i8</a></p>&mdash; MH (@drhajarat) <a href="https://twitter.com/drhajarat/status/1216553953753591809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">13. Januar 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
The Estate does indeed have all this. And it's publicly available online eg in court docs etc.
So it's clear that all those 'journalists' who say they have done so much research and still 'believe the victims' have ignored the evidence. Which means that their reporting is intentionally biased. As fans have been saying for decades.

Exactly.
 
I'm sorry the fact Latoya got sexually abused by gordon and her father. I don't hate latoya but i don't trust her when it comes to somethings. layota was most definitely jealous of Michael. so was his brothers.

Michael really didn't have good relationship with some of his siblings expect Janet and his other brother i can't think of right now. he basically sold all of them out.

jealously is a serious emotion that need to be talked about.

at the end of day Michael was blessed. they need to see it this way. Michael was a blessing to the family. (and Janet) yes the rest talents wasn't as good as Michael's. yes he didn't have childhood etc.

but they were blessed. Michael always felt he was a mistake. no he wasn't. Michael was an gift. Michael forgave his brothers, sisters, and dad later in his life.

in someways i actually do feel bad for his siblings that their talents wasn't as good as Michael's. but at the end of day that was their brother.

i'm sure we all know how it feel to be rejected because your talent or skills wasn't good enough. (ugh. i know the feeling.)

but like i said Michael was blessed and blessed his family. they really all should of gone to family therapy. michael was stubborn not to go. but i can understand why. but they should of have.

being an a superstar isn't a easy task for anybody.
 
Also not to mention the fact they kept on asking for money all the time. which was one of the reasons Michael moved far away and didn't contact them a lot. I actually feel sorry for all of them.

but they gave us great music. the family was most definitely blessed.
 
I'm sorry the fact Latoya got sexually abused by gordon and her father. I don't hate latoya but i don't trust her when it comes to somethings. layota was most definitely jealous of Michael. so was his brothers.

Michael really didn't have good relationship with some of his siblings expect Janet and his other brother i can't think of right now. he basically sold all of them out.

jealously is a serious emotion that need to be talked about.

at the end of day Michael was blessed. they need to see it this way. Michael was a blessing to the family. (and Janet) yes the rest talents wasn't as good as Michael's. yes he didn't have childhood etc.

but they were blessed. Michael always felt he was a mistake. no he wasn't. Michael was an gift. Michael forgave his brothers, sisters, and dad later in his life.

in someways i actually do feel bad for his siblings that their talents wasn't as good as Michael's. but at the end of day that was their brother.

i'm sure we all know how it feel to be rejected because your talent or skills wasn't good enough. (ugh. i know the feeling.)

but like i said Michael was blessed and blessed his family. they really all should of gone to family therapy. michael was stubborn not to go. but i can understand why. but they should of have.

being an a superstar isn't a easy task for anybody.

FTR, LaToya was NEVER sexually abused by her father Joe. That was the first of her lies.
 
somewhereinthedark;4279189 said:
FTR, LaToya was NEVER sexually abused by her father Joe. That was the first of her lies.

I agree. She was abused by her father but not sexually speaking. Abuse comes in different forms and Joseph abused all of them by beating them for stupid things. But sexually I don´t think so.
 
I'm sorry the fact Latoya got sexually abused by gordon and her father. I don't hate latoya but i don't trust her when it comes to somethings. layota was most definitely jealous of Michael. so was his brothers.

Michael really didn't have good relationship with some of his siblings expect Janet and his other brother i can't think of right now. he basically sold all of them out.

jealously is a serious emotion that need to be talked about.

at the end of day Michael was blessed. they need to see it this way. Michael was a blessing to the family. (and Janet) yes the rest talents wasn't as good as Michael's. yes he didn't have childhood etc.

but they were blessed. Michael always felt he was a mistake. no he wasn't. Michael was an gift. Michael forgave his brothers, sisters, and dad later in his life.

in someways i actually do feel bad for his siblings that their talents wasn't as good as Michael's. but at the end of day that was their brother.

i'm sure we all know how it feel to be rejected because your talent or skills wasn't good enough. (ugh. i know the feeling.)

but like i said Michael was blessed and blessed his family. they really all should of gone to family therapy. michael was stubborn not to go. but i can understand why. but they should of have.

being an a superstar isn't a easy task for anybody.

LaToya was never sexually abused by that monster Jack Gordon, she was brutally abused by him violently.
 
Interesting USA survey into trust in individuals and organisations to 'do the right thing'. No survey date given, but article says it's new. (Extracts from article below):

Americans trust Amazon and Google more than Oprah (and Trump)
A large new study asked Americans about which brands, institutions, ideas, and public figures they trust. The President should be worried. The US government should be petrified. Amazon and Google, on the other hand...

....Yet I confess to wondering about some of my fellow citizens, especially their unseemly embrace of technology. ................

As my latest evidence, may I point to a new survey from market research company Morning Consult. It decided to examine which brands Americans trust the most.

The company was rather committed to its task, claiming it conducted an average of 16,700 interviews on the subject of 2,000 brands. To be exact, that's 16,700 interviews per brand.

Within this morass of data, my eyes fell upon one particular table. It's a table that may make you finally, finally emigrate to Canada. You see, these were the responses to the question of how Americans' trust of prominent brands compares to their trust of institutions, public figures, and ideas.

I'm not sure about you, but there aren't many people I trust "a lot." There certainly aren't too many brands either. As for institutions, public figures, and ideas, well, I still hold out hope for cancer research, Justin Bieber and mockery. But certainly not for the tech industry.

Hark, then, at the almost complete vanquishing of the American mind by the tech industry. Thirty-nine percent of these surveyed Americans said they trusted Amazon "a lot" to do the right thing.

Might this be the time to ask if they're bonkers? If there's one thing Amazon is renowned for it's a penchant for the amoral quadrant of human behavior. These are the people who own Ring, the company that does deals with police forces in order to help those police forces get people's home surveillance footage for free.

Yet here are Americans saying they trust Amazon "a lot" more than, good grief, teachers. Or, sacrilege this, Oprah. Or, sound the apocalyptic bells, Tom Hanks.

Worse, they trust Google more than these icons of decency. 38 percent said they trusted Google "a lot" to do the same. Yes, the same Google which is being ordered to pay $1.49 billion by the EU for allegedly illegal advertising contracts.

America, what is wrong with you? (That was rhetorical, America. Please don't reply. The answer would be painful.)

In this survey, there were, indeed, only two institutions, public figures or ideas that were trusted "a lot" to do the right thing more than Amazon and Google: your primary doctor and the military.

That's another fine M*A*S*H you've gotten us into, America.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/americans-trust-amazon-and-google-more-than-oprah-or-trump/

The table shows 'trust to do the right thing' is:
Primary doctor - 50%
Amazon -39%
Oprah -27%
Scientific studies - 26%
Donald Trump -20%
The news media - 8%
Hollywood - 4%
 
WHY did she become so big and so important? I dont get it. I hope more and more people see her real face. She abused her power and is now questioned from many sides for it. But I am wondering if any similar powerful person will ever talk publicly about her misbehavior.
 
WHY did she become so big and so important? I dont get it. I hope more and more people see her real face. She abused her power and is now questioned from many sides for it. But I am wondering if any similar powerful person will ever talk publicly about her misbehavior.
It is a very american thing though. She is not that big in europe, not at all even though people know who she is ofcourse.
 
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