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Chandler actually tried to stop HIStory....

AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Child molestation is NOT a misdemeanor in America! It is a crime and was a crime long before Michael was first accused. Datsmay, you need to read the penal code of most states in America before making such a statement!

And let me say this....a confession from Jordan will not change the minds of people who WANT to believe that Michael is a child molester. That is what they want to believe. It will, however, change the minds of people who want the TRUTH. And that is the only good that can come out of a confession.

On another note, what I would like to know is what ever happened to that court issue that Jordy had with his father up there in New York....you know....when Chandler hit Jordy upside the head. Anyone got an update on that?
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I read somewhere that the type of crime that MJ was charged with was a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine santa barbara and other parts of the usa. The law was changed to trap MJ and the punishment was changed too. That is what I inderstood.
That type of crime that MJ was charged with, (section 255a), unappropriate touching, which could be anywhere on the body, including the shoulders or the arm, Used to be misdemeanor,but Sneddon upped it with MJ in mind, cause that was the only way he felt he could get MJ, it was designed to trap MJ. All Sneddon needed was the boy to say that he felt uncomfortable. The whole case was hinged on the boy's testimony being believable. You cannot build a society on a law like that, cause they will end up having everybody in prison. It also undermines and make children who are subjected to REAL sex abuse more vulnerable. When everybody can be easily accused of sex crimes, it takes away the impact of the crime .
It's like someone going to prison is no big deal anymore, cause so many people go these days, they almost brag about it. It loses its shock impact.

People who falsely accuse innocent do a disservice to real victims. peopoe who refise to check the trith also do a dioservice to real victims and to themselves as well as society. We leave society exposed when we refuse to accept the truth.
 
Dats, you are getting the law all confused. Child molestation has never been a misdemeanor in ANY state. The law that you are talking about with Sneddon had to do with him being allowed to enter into evidence past acts that were never adjudicated nor was the person ever convicted of them... in order to show that the person had a propensity to commit the crime. That is what 1108 was all about. The change in the law had to do with allowing a prosecutor to present a person's past to the jury whether they were tried for it or not, then try to convince the jury that the person has done something like this in the past so they must be guilty now.

All of this came about after courts started seeing more cases where child molesters were being shown to have a propensity or history of hurting children. So they started using past behavior to get these people off the streets. And it was not Sneddon who went before the lesgistature. It was really some other lawmaker in California who was supported by Sneddon and that is why Michael's 93 case came up and was used to make a case for the change in the law.

And the change in the 1108 law was passed just in time for Sneddon to use it against Michael.
 
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Grand Master S said:
It sorta makes you wonder if the dude can be convinced to come out.
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Yeah, for years... even before the trial, I wondered if that guy could by coaxed to admit that it was not the truth and that it was a setup!

But for that it depends on what kind of person he is... was he really an innocent child, who did what his parents (or father) wanted him to do or was he a brat, who full well knew what he was doing!

Of course there is also the story that they used this drug on him... so who knows, maybe he really thinks it happened! Also one would have to know what would happen to him (or his father) if he would admit he was lying! But since he was a child I don't think too much would happen to him!
 
Thanks for these words - I agree on why it would be good for Jordan Chandler to admit there was no wrongdoing on MJs behalf. I don't need him to do that to believe MJ is innocent. :)

AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Child molestation is NOT a misdemeanor in America! It is a crime and was a crime long before Michael was first accused. Datsmay, you need to read the penal code of most states in America before making such a statement!

And let me say this....a confession from Jordan will not change the minds of people who WANT to believe that Michael is a child molester. That is what they want to believe. It will, however, change the minds of people who want the TRUTH. And that is the only good that can come out of a confession.

On another note, what I would like to know is what ever happened to that court issue that Jordy had with his father up there in New York....you know....when Chandler hit Jordy upside the head. Anyone got an update on that?
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he never refused to testify, he simply was not asked. he wasn't called by the state b/c i believe they knew what he would say. sneddon and jc's uncle ray are close and so they knew putting him on the stand would be toxic to the state's case.

datsy, a comment like that is very irresponsible. instead of complaining that fans are making jokes from ur posts (in anotehr thread) maybe u should b more worried about being FACTUAL.

maybe what ur referring to is what the proposed 'plea agreement' would have been had it been publicized and mj accepted. demon said there was a plea deal presented to teh defense which would mean mj plead guilty to a LESSER crime (not 288a), be given a few misdemeanors, wouldn't ahve to reg. as a sex offender BUT wouldn't be allowed to be near children that were not his own, and would agree to random state child welfare drop ins from time to time to monitor his kids. and he couldn't leave the country for fiveyrs.....either dd was ly ing or sneddon was feeling pretty desperate but child molestation has NEVER been a misd. offense.

only when pled down to assault or a lesser crime does it warrant being given a non-felonious charge.

jordan has been hanging out w/ mj fans for years. if u don'tknow who he is and ubash mj, he'll defend michael. he knew his friends were potential witnesses, his friends (the mj fans) know who he is, and they understand why he cannot come forward unless in a legal venue and in the santa maria debacle, he was NOT asked.
 
soso def said:
jordan has been hanging out w/ mj fans for years. if u don'tknow who he is and ubash mj, he'll defend michael. he knew his friends were potential witnesses, his friends (the mj fans) know who he is, and they understand why he cannot come forward unless in a legal venue and in the santa maria debacle, he was NOT asked.
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Is that hearsay and urban legend or is there any proof for what you're saying? I mean, okay, that's a bit naive to think about it, but seriously, if that is the truth, it would be awesome if anyone could get him to confess!
 
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wow urban legend? seriously y do mj fans find it so hard that this kid was manipulated by his father and the same court system and agreements used to 'protect' him are actually hindering his coming forward?

y not try reading a few pages back patrick where you'll read fans commenting about the conference mez had along w/ abrams at a university shortly after the trial....where mez said he had friends of jordan ready to come forward and testify that the allegations in the affidavit were false.

yes that IS hearsay evidence BUT it would have been mez's rebuttal had the judge allowed the affidavit to come in as evidence...as we all know, u cannot cross examine a piece of paper so in that case, the hearsay evidence wouldbe allowed. it never got that far so they were never called.

anything else?
 
where did T-mez find these peeps? ^or should I say how? and what is an affidavit?
 
Yall ought to quit it!

What do you think Mez hired a private investigator for? The main job of the PI is to FIND WITNESSES!
 
they came to him via oxman's digging around to pester jc. pretty much the straw the broke the camel's back and caused his bitching out in the parking lot and subsequent firing.

the affidavit from the '93 allegations that evan wrote...lol and jc just read and signed stating it was his story or allegations. the one suggesting that mj molested him, what happened etc....

they wanted that in the trial and mez fought it. had it come in, the hearsay witnesses would have rebutted it. jordan wasn't asked ever to testify b/c his credibility wouldn't have been up to par compared to every other jackson witness
 
soso def said:
wow urban legend? seriously y do mj fans find it so hard that this kid was manipulated by his father and the same court system and agreements used to 'protect' him are actually hindering his coming forward?
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Why do you think I find it hard to believe?? Are you insinuating, that I believe Chandler said the truth and thus believe Michael is guilty?? It is not hard to believe that he was manipulated...

soso def said:
he hangs out w/ mj fans, told his friends this was all bollocks,and knew they were potential rebuttal witnesses should melville have allowed the affidavit to come in as evidence.
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...but that part is hard to believe! Why would he hang out with "MJ fans"?? Why would he admit to them (assuming those fans are his friends), of all people, that he was screwing over Michael for millions?? That doesn't make sense! Why would "MJ fans" hang out with him, knowing that he screwed over Michael for millions?? Doesn't make any sense at all... and I'd like to know where that information comes from!!

People are quick to believe things when they sound good and to dismiss things when they sound bad and rather than to believe it, because it sounds good, I'd like to know where that information comes from and if that source is somewhat reliable!

y not try reading a few pages back patrick where you'll read fans commenting about the conference mez had along w/ abrams at a university shortly after the trial....where mez said he had friends of jordan ready to come forward and testify that the allegations in the affidavit were false.
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Well, I read now a few pages back but didn't see anyone mentioning that conference, but I remember watching that conference, don't remember though Mez noting that Chandler hangs out with MJ fans and that he would defend Michael against people bashing him (probably have to rewatch that conference)!
 
You may not remember Mez saying it, but I do. He said it on national tv once as well.

And why do you find it hard to believe that Jordan talks to his friends about MJ? Jordan is not upset with Michael. Jordan is upset with his parents for what they did....that is why I believe he filed for emancipation from them. That is why June hasn't seen him in 11 years plus.

And why wouldn't Jordan tell his friens about Michael? Sooner or later his friends would have asked him anyway. I know I would if I knew him. I would flat out ask him if Michael ever hurt him and why was he accused as such. I believe that Jordan told his friends because he knew nothing happened.
 
AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
You may not remember Mez saying it, but I do. He said it on national tv once as well.

And why do you find it hard to believe that Jordan talks to his friends about MJ? Jordan is not upset with Michael. Jordan is upset with his parents for what they did....that is why I believe he filed for emancipation from them. That is why June hasn't seen him in 11 years plus.

And why wouldn't Jordan tell his friens about Michael? Sooner or later his friends would have asked him anyway. I know I would if I knew him. I would flat out ask him if Michael ever hurt him and why was he accused as such. I believe that Jordan told his friends because he knew nothing happened.
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And then, if he told you... would you want to continue to be friends with him? Knowing that he punked Michael?? I certainly wouldn't... I probably would punch him... so that's why I find it hard to believe that he would admit that to anyone... especially to MJ Fans!
 
PatrickS77 said:
Why do you think I find it hard to believe?? Are you insinuating, that I believe Chandler said the truth and thus believe Michael is guilty?? It is not hard to believe that he was manipulated...


...but that part is hard to believe! Why would he hang out with "MJ fans"?? Why would he admit to them (assuming those fans are his friends), of all people, that he was screwing over Michael for millions?? That doesn't make sense! Why would "MJ fans" hang out with him, knowing that he screwed over Michael for millions?? Doesn't make any sense at all... and I'd like to know where that information comes from!!

People are quick to believe things when they sound good and to dismiss things when they sound bad and rather than to believe it, because it sounds good, I'd like to know where that information comes from and if that source is somewhat reliable!

Well, I read now a few pages back but didn't see anyone mentioning that conference, but I remember watching that conference, don't remember though Mez noting that Chandler hangs out with MJ fans and that he would defend Michael against people bashing him (probably have to rewatch that conference)!
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I agree with all of this. Besides, I do not see Jordan turning down the money and giving it back. Just because you are awarded something does NOt mean you have to take it especially if you know you do not deserve it and that you are going to mess up a man's reputation. If Jordan wanted to clear this mess up as best as he could have done, Jordan could have came to court even if he had to sit in court on MIchael's side (image the reaction in court over JOrdan doing that). THere are plenty of ways to get your point across even if you are not allowed to speak out loud in certain areanas.
 
PatrickS77 said:
And then, if he told you... would you want to continue to be friends with him? Knowing that he punked Michael?? I certainly wouldn't... I probably would punch him... so that's why I find it hard to believe that he would admit that to anyone... especially to MJ Fans!
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I would not surprise by this if it is true but it is doing no good.
 
If Jordan was really saying to people that Michael did nothing to him, after his emancipation he should have come to court way back then and called out his dad for starting this and putting both he and Michael through the crap instead of running away like he did. His dad could have been made to answer for all of this. If Jordan had done that, chances are that Michael wouldn't have been used as everybody's punching bag all these years. And if Jordan is still saying that Michael never touched him, it's doing no good now. I think Jordan had his chance. He blew it. And so Michael has been shafted for nothing but a lie and always will.
 
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terrell said:
I agree with all of this. Besides, I do not see Jordan turning down the money and giving it back. Just because you are awarded something does NOt mean you have to take it especially if you know you do not deserve it and that you are going to mess up a man's reputation. If Jordan wanted to clear this mess up as best as he could have done, Jordan could have came to court even if he had to sit in court on MIchael's side (image the reaction in court over JOrdan doing that). THere are plenty of ways to get your point across even if you are not allowed to speak out loud in certain areanas.
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I agree. This is why I say that fans should leave the man alone and stop asking him to come out. The guy is his fathers son, he took the money and he must have heard the media reviling MJ and he must have seen the documentaries, yet he has done nothing at all to redress the injustice. He is not a child. Quite franky, I would not trust him to come anywhere near MJ , let alone come out to speak. His silence tells me he is an accomplice. Fans need to understand that and leave him be.
 
The problem with Jordan and his dad is that MJ did not go away. When they conceived the idea of robbing MJ and bringing him down, they actually thought that he would disappear from public view and they could live a quiet life. In a way, his case has been as much a problem for them as it has for MJ, because MJ remained in the public eye and the case continued to be mentioned. I guess they had hoped that if MJ was convicted it would give them justification and some credibility, soon after the case ended, father and son started fighting with each other. They are haunted by this case. The more MJ is in the publics eye is the more they will be haunted. Nothing good is ever going to come of that man.
 
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Datsymay said:
I agree. This is why I say that fans should leave the man alone and stop asking him to come out. The guy is his fathers son, he took the money and he must have heard the media reviling MJ and he must have seen the documentaries, yet he has done nothing at all to redress the injustice. He is not a child. Quite franky, I would not trust him to come anywhere near MJ , let alone come out to speak. His silence tells me he is an accomplice. Fans need to understand that and leave him be.
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If he wants to speak to clear it up, I am all for it; however, I am not going to hold my breathe. Jordan could have done this even during the trial but he said NOTHING. I agree with Bill Oreilly that JORDAN IS A COWARD (either way in Oreilly's eyes). Like I said, I understand the legal woes;however, there are plenty of ways to get your view across. Look at Michael, Michael has been doing it for years; however, Jordan can be even more powerful IF he really wanted to do it. In the system, NOTHING is unbreakable or sold. Even prisoners know how to get drugs in jail.
 
Datsymay said:
The problem with Jordan and his dad is that MJ did not go away. When they conceived the idea of robbing MJ and bringing him down, they actually thought that he would disappear from public view and they could live a quiet life. In a way, his case has been as much a problem for them as it has for MJ, because MJ remained in the public eye and the case continued to be mentioned. I guess they had hoped that if MJ was convicted it would give them justification and some credibility, soon after the case ended, father and son started fighting with each other. They are haunted by this case. The more MJ is in the publics eye is the more they will be haunted. Nothing good is ever going to come of that man.
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I agree with your comment.
 
I know this may be a little off topic, but its Chandler related..did you guys hear back in 2005 i believe, that Evan struck Jordan on the back of his head with a dumbell and sprayed his eyes with mace..why did Evan do this????i found this on floacist.wordpress.com/jordan-chandler..
 
Jason can to court and proved he was an lier and a idoit. "Michael tickled him". sorry but I do believe someone on the jury laughted at that mess. It is stupid and it does NOT make a person a molester. Notice NO ONE in the mcdia talks about this guy even though he was in court on the stand and got 2 million. That tells you somthing right there.
 
MJbabe21 said:
I know this may be a little off topic, but its Chandler related..did you guys hear back in 2005 i believe, that Evan struck Jordan on the back of his head with a dumbell and sprayed his eyes with mace..why did Evan do this????i found this on floacist.wordpress.com/jordan-chandler..
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Yes, it happen according to the court papers. Both need a dumbell upside their head. See that is what happen when you have blood money.
 
Datsymay said:
I agree. This is why I say that fans should leave the man alone and stop asking him to come out. The guy is his fathers son, he took the money and he must have heard the media reviling MJ and he must have seen the documentaries, yet he has done nothing at all to redress the injustice. He is not a child. Quite franky, I would not trust him to come anywhere near MJ , let alone come out to speak. His silence tells me he is an accomplice. Fans need to understand that and leave him be.
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:clap: a post with sense :flowers:
 
I agree that they both need a dumbell..maybe jordan should have hit Evan w/ a dumbell to make it even. anyways so they got into as fight over money..oh god..greed!!!!!
 
terrell said:
Yes, it happen according to the court papers. Both need a dumbell upside their head. See that is what happen when you have blood money.
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:clapping: It was about the same time when Uncle ray told RF that anybody who takes MJ's money is CURSED. I think some people are running scared. May they run all the way to hell.
 
Datsymay said:
The problem with Jordan and his dad is that MJ did not go away. When they conceived the idea of robbing MJ and bringing him down, they actually thought that he would disappear from public view and they could live a quiet life. In a way, his case has been as much a problem for them as it has for MJ, because MJ remained in the public eye and the case continued to be mentioned. I guess they had hoped that if MJ was convicted it would give them justification and some credibility, soon after the case ended, father and son started fighting with each other. They are haunted by this case. The more MJ is in the publics eye is the more they will be haunted. Nothing good is ever going to come of that man.
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Totally agree and the truth of the matter is both of them live like fugitives on the run with blood money, if they had been credible they could live out in the open but they can't they got money through extortion and blackmail.
 
Datsymay said:
:clapping: It was about the same time when Uncle ray told RF that anybody who takes MJ's money is CURSED. I think some people are running scared. May they run all the way to hell.
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hahaha good. I'm glad MJ's money is cursed..haha i agree
 
Datsymay said:
:clapping: It was about the same time when Uncle ray told RF that anybody who takes MJ's money is CURSED. I think some people are running scared. May they run all the way to hell.
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Girl, I agree.
 
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