BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For [General Discussion]

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

@Bumper
you seam to think that Michael was in total control over everything. that he knew whats going on, but he didn't.
You don't think that something can be stolen from archives or warehouses or even from recodidg studio.

How did Escape leak, Rome Tokyo 88 Brunei and all the other tapes that leaked or are in hands or traders.
Michael made sure that his music was secured.
quote:
"Hamid Moslehi, MJ's past personal videographer registered several audio/video materials recently. The materials consists recordings of MJ concerts and his personal life. Will he expose them somehow?"
not his video footage. maybe the official videos. its not uncommon that material jumps out from the strangest places.
I said don't compare how you will care about your stuff with Michael or anyother celebrity.

He was giving tape of his shows to bus drivers. does this seams like he was really carring who is getting what.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

But i believed all those drawings were given away as the "gifts" to others by Tohme tohme behind michael's back

At least, they still exist. It's up to the Estate whether they want to buy them back or not. The difference between the drawings and concert footage is that no one can release the concert footage without the Estate's approval, which significantly limit the value of the recording.

Take the Dangerous Buenos Aries footage for example, the driver cannot release the films commercially, so he's trying to sell the footage. But, he's having a hard time finding a buyer. Not hard to know why. Who would buy something they can't profit from if they can't get approval from the Estate?

Whoever owns the footage can only benefit from it by working with the Estate.

 

[big DB]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I'm happy that Bad Wembley will be release soon. But, no, I'm not happy that it's a VHS transfer. We are talking about an official release in the year of 2012. VHS is a thing of the past.

Some have said a few pages ago that Sony can hire the best industry professionals to do the remastering. But, the professionals are not magicians. They can't restore non-existing details. It's not people's assumption. The technological limitations are real.

Yes thats true, however if a fan had only one copy of the concert on tape and transferred it, remastered it and uploaded it for u to see, would you be happy with the quality?

Noone is expecting miracles but at the end of the day we get to see a concert we would never have seen in any other circumstance and in pretty decent quality I'm sure for it being transferred from vhs, I think we need to wait and see it before we assume more should have been done, or produced.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

@Bumper
you seam to think that Michael was in total control over everything. that he knew whats going on, but he didn't.
You don't think that something can be stolen from archives or warehouses or even from recodidg studio.

How did Escape leak, Rome Tokyo 88 Brunei and all the other tapes that leaked or are in hands or traders.
Michael made sure that his music was secured.
quote:
"Hamid Moslehi, MJ's past personal videographer registered several audio/video materials recently. The materials consists recordings of MJ concerts and his personal life. Will he expose them somehow?"
not his video footage. maybe the official videos. its not uncommon that material jumps out from the strangest places.
I said don't compare how you will care about your stuff with Michael or anyother celebrity.

He was giving tape of his shows to bus drivers. does this seams like he was really carring who is getting what.

But never did MJ claim that the masters were stolen. If there are limited copies, they have probably been stolen, but the master copies???? That's just an assumption. We would robably read in the press if MJ was robbed.

 

[etoile 37]

"I told her then, and I've always believed since, that it was a tragedy that her performance in the play could not have been preserved on film. I cried time after time. As much as I like the Broadway stage, I don't think I'd want to play on it myself. When you give a performance, whether on record or on film, you want to be able to judge what you've done, to measure yourself and try to improve. You can't do that in an untaped or unrecorded performance. It makes me sad to think of all the great actors who have played roles we would give anything to see, but they're lost to us because they couldn't be, or simply weren't, recorded." – Michael Jackson, Moonwalk

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

"I told her then, and I've always believed since, that it was a tragedy that her performance in the play could not have been preserved on film. I cried time after time. As much as I like the Broadway stage, I don't think I'd want to play on it myself. When you give a performance, whether on record or on film, you want to be able to judge what you've done, to measure yourself and try to improve. You can't do that in an untaped or unrecorded performance. It makes me sad to think of all the great actors who have played roles we would give anything to see, but they're lost to us because they couldn't be, or simply weren't, recorded." – Michael Jackson, Moonwalk

Yes, that's MJ's the businessman and the artist talking there. That's the MJ that I know. He was absolutely aware of how important it was to document and preserve everything the artists (thus it goes the same for him) created.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Yes thats true, however if a fan had only one copy of the concert on tape and transferred it, remastered it and uploaded it for u to see, would you be happy with the quality?

Of course I'd be more than happy. I'd be grateful for the fan's efforts and generosity. But, we are talking about an officail release with the Estate's blessing. The standard is raised. Not because I want to be picky. If the Estate can't provide us videos of high quality, then who? You can't compare an official release to a fan made DVD.

Noone is expecting miracles but at the end of the day we get to see a concert we would never have seen in any other circumstance and in pretty decent quality I'm sure for it being transferred from vhs, I think we need to wait and see it before we assume more should have been done, or produced.

Again and again, I'm happy that we'll soon see a concert that we dream about. No one refutes that. We are just asking a very relevant question. Why the sourece is just a VHS tape? Can you imagine if they release the Bad album that is not sourced from the master, but a cassette tape in Michael's walkman?

No one is making assumption based on nothing. All these quality talks are based on the official release. It said the source is a VHS tape. If you wait and see, you'll get a VHS transfer. It doesn't matter how much restoration work is done, it'll still be a very good VHS quality DVD. It is what it is. No one can restore non-existing details. When you see it on your TV, you'll see grainny picture.

It doesn't hurt to raise all these questions now. If not, we may never get HD quality Michael Jackson release.

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

But never did MJ claim that the masters were stolen. If there are limited copies, they have probably been stolen, but the master copies???? That's just an assumption. We would robably read in the press if MJ was robbed.

yes. i don't remember how we got in to that stolen/lost discussion.
Its just that he required only the material he needed. for moonwalker apom video or other promotional stuff.
its not stolen or lost. just its not in Michaels hands as we thought or as it should have been.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

When you see it on your TV, you'll see grainny picture.

Just to add, specifically grain can be removed (reduced) or fixed easily even by amateurs. So that's not the case. It's more about the detail and VHS artifacts (halos :bugeyed, color bleeding) which I fear of.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

yes. i don't remember how we got in to that stolen/lost discussion.
Its just that he required only the material he needed. for moonwalker apom video or other promotional stuff.
its not stolen or lost. just its not in Michaels hands as we thought or as it should have been.

Or teh Etsate knows something (and they most probably do) that we don't. They just don't communicate enough.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Just to add, specifically grain can be removed (reduced) or fixed easily even by amateurs. So that's not the case. It's more about the detail and VHS artifacts (halos :bugeyed, color bleeding) which I fear of.

And you obtain a picture of a man or a woman as if they were plastic dolls. It's far from being perfect.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

And you obtain a picture of a man or a woman as if they were plastic dolls. It's far from being perfect.

That's if the grain is heavy and if denoise is overdone, yes. But if denoise is applied slightly just as needed, as cherry on top of ice cream, it will just improve it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

That's if the grain is heavy and if denoise is overdone, yes. But if dne slightly just as needed, as cherry on top of ice cream, it will just improve it.

Sure, taht goes for all the damaged material. YOu can repair it, but you cannot enhance it beyon reasonable. For example with the VHS, we shold really stay realistic. They'll never be able to improve it to the point to add 500 extra pixels to the maximum of already only 250 exisiting.

 

[RIKMJ]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

to be honest i cannot wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and i am soooooo glad i still have and watch my old style tv, cos if it comes as a 4:3 dvd, that`ll be perfect for me.....

 

[big DB]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Of course I'd be more than happy. I'd be grateful for the fan's efforts and generosity. But, we are talking about an officail release with the Estate's blessing. The standard is raised. Not because I want to be picky. If the Estate can't provide us videos of high quality, then who? You can't compare an official release to a fan made DVD.



Again and again, I'm happy that we'll soon see a concert that we dream about. No one refutes that. We are just asking a very relevant question. Why the sourece is just a VHS tape? Can you imagine if they release the Bad album that is not sourced from the master, but a cassette tape in Michael's walkman?

No one is making assumption based on nothing. All these quality talks are based on the official release. It said the source is a VHS tape. If you wait and see, you'll get a VHS transfer. It doesn't matter how much restoration work is done, it'll still be a very good VHS quality DVD. It is what it is. No one can restore non-existing details. When you see it on your TV, you'll see grainny picture.

It doesn't hurt to raise all these questions now. If not, we may never get HD quality Michael Jackson release.

of course the expectations are raised given its an official release I'm just trying to get across that we enjoy and watch concerts that are strictly VHS quality or perhaps even worse, e.g Brunei, this is a very good quality concert, so is Buenos Aries from previews, I think if they had better sources they would use them, however the fact that they are putting out a rare concert such as Wembley given the limitations is such a great thing, as we may not get another opportunity to see it any other time.


I agree that higher quality sources would be amazing to top off this release , I just don't want people to be too down hearted on this as it is still an amazing thing they are doing given the source.


You raise some valid points I wouldn't dispute but give it time, evidence of the quality by the estate and also watch the dvd first before jumping to conclusions that we don't have any answers for, we will have them soon enough

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Sure, taht goes for all the damaged material. YOu can repair it, but you cannot enhance it beyon reasonable. For example with the VHS, we shold really stay realistic. They'll never be able to improve it to the point to add 500 extra pixels to the maximum of already only 250 exisiting.

I'm talking about enhance in general not this particular VHS case. We have honestly no idea how the DVD is gonna look so just wait and see.
Well yeah, who can add extra detail pixels? But they can at least make exsisting visuals better.

 

[big DB]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

it won't be restored to crystal clear quality, but will be good enough to enjoy a concert that was a dream only months ago, that for one means i don't care if its a little grainy or denoised to hell, Wembley 88 is being released with no water marks and will be amazing no matter what, just wait and see

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

That's if the grain is heavy and if denoise is overdone, yes. But if denoise is applied slightly just as needed, as cherry on top of ice cream, it will just improve it.

In case of Star Wars, they had the original master copy, so it was not a problem to restore it.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

In case of Star Wars, they had the original master copy, so it was not a problem to restore it.

I'm talking there about particular grain issue and that it can be fixed more or less. Obviously it's made from film negatives we all know that.

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

But why those supposed peopel who would be in possession of such priceless stuff wouldn't tried to sell them to the Estate or SONY? If they were able to pay for 12 Cascio tracks without any proof, why not buying genuine things?

Maybe because they aren't sure the way they obtained the BAD celluloid makes them its legal owner? It probably feels like sitting on fire...

You know companies pay monthly storage fees to store junks. Yes, junks. Documents that no one cares about. If video footage of Michael Jackson performing was worthless, then those arts and drawings must be worse than junks. Again, we are not talking about footage of Michael Jackson chewing gums during rehearsals, but actual concert footage.

As said, I suspect MJ concerts were estimated commercially worthless a very long time (was there even one officially released concert previous to the 2004 box set?)...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I'm talking there about particular grain issue and that it can be fixed more or less. Obviously it's made from film negatives we all know that.

Yes, I agree, grain issue is not a problem in itself. The problem that we have with VHS is not about grains but about huge patches

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

As said, I suspect MJ concerts were estimated commercially worthless a very long time (was there even one officially released concert previous to the 2004 box set?)...

Seoul 1996 on VHS? But I guess that doesn't count.

 

[TehHolySpir1t]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

LA 89 snippets in HQ if anyone forgot how they look like unk:

If the picture quality is like this (obviously higher res though), and the audio is as good as promised, I'll be pretty happy with the DVD. Sony and The Estate haven't given us much reason to expect high quality DVDs from them (Vision...), but let's hope they can make things right this time.

Off topic though, those vocals in the video are SICK! Never heard that mix before.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Yes, I agree, grain issue is not a problem in itself. The problem that we have with VHS is not about grains but about huge patches

Well, if the VHS is badly degraded. We don't know how bad or good standing does it have. I just refuse to believe the teaser snippet is the actual quality of VHS.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Off topic though, those vocals in the video are SICK! Never heard that mix before.

Bad Extended Mix unk:

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Maybe because they aren't sure the way they obtained the BAD celluloid makes them its legal owner? It probably feels like sitting on fire...



As said, I suspect MJ concerts were estimated commercially worthless a very long time (was there even one officially released concert previous to the 2004 box set?)...

There was.

I saw in a shop a video cassette of the Triumph concert. Today I regret not to have bought it.

I also saw in a big shop a CD that was officially sold "Nobody Moves Like Jacko", it was Bad Tour live. Again, I regret not to have bought it.

I don't know where those articles came from, bt they were officially sold in respectable CD/DVD/VHS shops.

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I think these were all also "strangely obtained" products. I also remember a live BAD CD that had terrible quality. All such stuff was released by small companies that somehow got their rights (if they even did) on these products.

 

[MJBT]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Really looking forward to this now, hopefully theres going to be another trailer closer to the release with the newly restored footage I'm going to wait until theres more than 25 second clip before dismissing the quality of the restoration.

In the mean time I'm going to continue to listen to this until september

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I think these were all also "strangely obtained" products. I also remember a live BAD CD that had terrible quality. All such stuff was released by small companies that somehow got their rights (if they even did) on these products.

The Triumph Tour I saw was a on VHS. Probably an item from the 80s. The live CD I saw had a quite reasonable stereo quality. I listened to it in the shop with headphones.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

To me personally, it doesn't matter if I get this show in HQ now or 10 years later. Sure I wish I had it already, but it doesn't really matter that much. What does matter is if a HQ copy/master tape of whatever format it was originally recorded on, is somewhere safe and secure. These performances were part of human history and one of arguably some of our finest artistic achievements. It's just depressing to think they were not preserved and documented for future generations when the means were available to do so. And it's even more depressing to think they were documented but were lost. That would be a real tragedy.

TO MODS: Could you please change my registration date back to 2008 (and why did you change that?)