Xscape General Discussion

[WhoIsIt89]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Record stores are dying because the franchises like Best Buy and FYE are buying out the local stores as far as America goes of course, as well as the current state of music fares. And those conglomerwtes arent going anywhere any time soon. As long as theres a Wal-mart, target, Best Buy, etc. There will be physical CD's. Certain artists I prefer physical copies for, Iit's something to hold to, and Michael is one of those artists. I much rather read a Michael booklet in an actual booklet and not on my phone in a PDF format.

Guess its just preference really. Still, I'm sure a lot of people in this world, especially older ones still enjoy physical releases.

 

[KOPV]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

FYE has closed several locations.. 5 of them just in the last 2 year in surrounding cities of mine.. They were not making money!! one of those 5 closed and is re-opening at a smaller location specifically because they don't have use to house the large amount of CD's that they did. Walmart, Target, And Best Buy still sell CD's of course, and stores will sell CD's but it will be limiting alot in the near future.. I have personally seen 2 Targets shrink there CD isles from 4 isles to 1.. Each of those 3 stores already sell cards for download music purchases. The only thing that keeps CD's around in the stores is the fact that millions of people download music for free. If that was devided out to purchases by percentage the market would show a completly tilted sale margin for download.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

i'm hoping for this new album to be released on every format known to mankind, vinyl, cd, digital, high fidelity blu ray, it needs promotion, airplay, this album can be a huge seller. it just needs to be done in the right fashion with L.O.V.E. i think one song a week could work (for the fans) through an mp3 download directing you to your paypal account and it'll download through itunes. if this recent news is anything to go by, then i'm buying every aspect of this project. sounds epic!!!!!

I hope they don't release a full song every week... In all honesty the songs will probably not do well and the press will use it to say some BS like no one cares about Michael or his music anymore. Let's look at Justin Bieber, his music tends to sell pretty well for artists today. For the last... 3-4 weeks he has released a single every Monday. The songs have quickly entered the top 10, briefly peaking at #1, before plummeting back down the charts again. As much as it sucks, Bieber's fanbase at the moment is stronger than MJ's and as such, they can able to hold a #1 much easier.

Of course, the songs Bieber has released haven't actually been that great (in my personal opinion, and I actually like some of his work), so that's a factor too. The last thing we need is for Sony to rush out a single, barely promote it and then move on to the next one mere days later. Look at the singles we've had so far, minus Hold My Hand, most have done pretty poorly because they've had barely any promotion. Sony aren't going to have a massive campaign for one single, then drop it and start another massive campaign for another single a few days later.

Plus, though this is just personal opinion, I'd much rather buy a CD and have a whole bunch of tracks I'm yet to hear and be able to experience in full for the first time, rather than buy a CD where I have heard all of the final, full tracks already. It's less of an experience. I remember hearing a snippet of Al Capone before Bad 25 came out and it just completely hyped me up for the release ! Had I have heard the full song, I'd have been less excited because well, I'd already have it, why be as excited to hear it on CD ?

What we need is for Sony to go all out on 1-3 singles, especially on the first single. The first single is the most crucial element. That will give the album the attention it deserves because the singles are more likely to be successful, and thus more people are likely to hear them. In saying that though, I think the idea of releasing a 30-60 second snippet each week through MichaelJackson.com is a great idea ! Especially coming up to the album's release

 

[mj_brainiac]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I wouldn't say Beiber's fanbase is stronger than Michael's but his fanbase is A LOT younger and rabid, not to mention they have a handle on social media and downloading

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I wouldn't say Beiber's fanbase is stronger than Michael's but his fanbase is A LOT younger and rabid, not to mention they have a handle on social media and downloading

Mmm... I dunno. I guess it depends on how you look at it. I would, personally, say that in 2013, Bieber's fanbase is stronger than Michael's fanbase in 2013. You could certainly argue which is stronger, depending on the aspect of how the fanbase supports their artist. In terms of keeping their artists newest music up on the charts and selling more copies ? I would say Bieber's fanbase can do a better job. Both 2010's My World 2.0 and Michael did well in terms of how high they charted worldwide, but ultimately, My World 2.0 has sold more copies worldwide. Why ? Bieber's more current, he was 'in' and thus his fanbase was stronger (of course, there are many factors to consider for both albums, but keeping it simple and straight forward, that's that).

What if you look at it though from say, the perspective of how well their fans can vote for their favourite artist ? Well then I would certainly argue that, in that perspective, the strength of Michael's fanbase CAN compete with Biebers. Michael has no doubt won numerous polls and awards posthumously (like greatest VMA performance) thanks to the dedication and strength of his fanbase and, in that aspect, we have certainly proven that we remain strong and dedicated.

Being honest though, big 'current' artists will often have stronger fanbases at their peak (which Bieber is probably at now) than what 'past' artists do, at that same point in time. At what many consider his peak, Michael undoubtedly had a stronger fanbase in the 1980s than what The Beatles and Elvis had at the same time in the 1980s. Michael was more current, he was 'in' at the time... more so than The Beatles and Elvis. In 2020, when the next big artists is here, their fanbase will be stronger than Bieber's fanbase in 2020. Doesn't mean that Artist A is better than Artist B, certainly not ! It's just... the 'cycle of music' or whatever I suppose. As such though, there are multiple factors you have to consider and numerous ways as to how you can perceive the strength of a fanbase. Because of this, you'll get different answers from different people. Being a Michael Jackson forum, most will probably say MJ's fanbase is stronger and you could certainly argue that ! ^_^

I do think, however, in the distant future Michael's music will experience a revival. Going back to the example of The Beatles, they have experienced quite a revival over the last decade or two with their fanbase growing in both number and variation of fan's age. Their 2000 compilation 1 is still one of the best selling albums of this millennium so far, having sold over 31 million copies. So I wouldn't be too surprised, if in the distant future, Michael's music experiences a revival and his fanbase strengthens substantially.

All that said, I'm still keen to see how well we can do with this upcoming album though

 

[Zakk]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

The estate seem to be taking this in the right direction compared to previous projects, ''now & then'' seems appropriate for fans & general public. It's best to please most of michael's fanbase.. although 100% will never be completely possible, they're caring for the fans wishes and desires with this and are paying attention to us. It definitely doesn't deserve to only debut at #3 like the 'Michael' album.. it should reach number one, especially if they release the deluxe & regular editions (physical CD & digitally via iTunes & Amazon MP3)

 

[bobmoo79]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Mmm... I dunno. I guess it depends on how you look at it. I would, personally, say that in 2013, Bieber's fanbase is stronger than Michael's fanbase in 2013. You could certainly argue which is stronger, depending on the aspect of how the fanbase supports their artist. In terms of keeping their artists newest music up on the charts and selling more copies ? I would say Bieber's fanbase can do a better job. Both 2010's My World 2.0 and Michael did well in terms of how high they charted worldwide, but ultimately, My World 2.0 has sold more copies worldwide. Why ? Bieber's more current, he was 'in' and thus his fanbase was stronger (of course, there are many factors to consider for both albums, but keeping it simple and straight forward, that's that).

What if you look at it though from say, the perspective of how well their fans can vote for their favourite artist ? Well then I would certainly argue that, in that perspective, the strength of Michael's fanbase CAN compete with Biebers. Michael has no doubt won numerous polls and awards posthumously (like greatest VMA performance) thanks to the dedication and strength of his fanbase and, in that aspect, we have certainly proven that we remain strong and dedicated.

Being honest though, big 'current' artists will often have stronger fanbases at their peak (which Bieber is probably at now) than what 'past' artists do, at that same point in time. At what many consider his peak, Michael undoubtedly had a stronger fanbase in the 1980s than what The Beatles and Elvis had at the same time in the 1980s. Michael was more current, he was 'in' at the time... more so than The Beatles and Elvis. In 2020, when the next big artists is here, their fanbase will be stronger than Bieber's fanbase in 2020. Doesn't mean that Artist A is better than Artist B, certainly not ! It's just... the 'cycle of music' or whatever I suppose. As such though, there are multiple factors you have to consider and numerous ways as to how you can perceive the strength of a fanbase. Because of this, you'll get different answers from different people. Being a Michael Jackson forum, most will probably say MJ's fanbase is stronger and you could certainly argue that ! ^_^

I do think, however, in the distant future Michael's music will experience a revival. Going back to the example of The Beatles, they have experienced quite a revival over the last decade or two with their fanbase growing in both number and variation of fan's age. Their 2000 compilation 1 is still one of the best selling albums of this millennium so far, having sold over 31 million copies. So I wouldn't be too surprised, if in the distant future, Michael's music experiences a revival and his fanbase strengthens substantially.

All that said, I'm still keen to see how well we can do with this upcoming album though

Absolutely correct.
We shouldnt' allow our MJ fandom blind us to the facts.

MJ's peak was higher than Bieber's current position, but right now Bieber (and other contempory artists) have bigger fanbases than MJ.
That doesn't mean anybody should consider Bieber or the others to be better than MJ, because there is no correlation. They are from completely different eras.

 

[Pentum]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I would just like to point out though, there are more people in the world who likes MJs music compared to Biebers music, I'm positive on that. That don't make them a fan though

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Absolutely correct.
We shouldnt' allow our MJ fandom blind us to the facts.

MJ's peak was higher than Bieber's current position, but right now Bieber (and other contempory artists) have bigger fanbases than MJ.
That doesn't mean anybody should consider Bieber or the others to be better than MJ, because there is no correlation. They are from completely different eras.

Exactly. Thanks for summing up my post in a few sentences

I would just like to point out though, there are more people in the world who likes MJs music compared to Biebers music, I'm positive on that. That don't make them a fan though

Oh definitely. I know a number of people who like Michael's music more than Bieber's, but would not identify themselves as fans and therefore not really care or worry about how well his music does.

 

[etoile 37]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Both 2010's My World 2.0 and Michael did well in terms of how high they charted worldwide, but ultimately, My World 2.0 has sold more copies worldwide. Why ? Bieber's more current, he was 'in' and thus his fanbase was stronger

You can't use the "Michael" album for comparison since many fans decided to boycott it because of the Cascio tracks, and they did it to protect Michael's legacy just as much as those who bought the album to make it chart. Did Justin Bieber's fans boycott his album? Surely not... And there is no way of knowing how many copies "Michael" would have sold if there hadn't been any controversy.

Judging by how well the Cirque du Soleil shows are doing, I would say the demand for Michael is certainly there. All we need is a high quality product, good marketing and just for once hopefully no controversy.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

You can't use the "Michael" album for comparison since many fans decided to boycott it because of the Cascio tracks, and they did it to protect Michael's legacy just as much as those who bought the album to make it chart. Did Justin Bieber's fans boycott his album? Surely not... And there is no way of knowing how many copies "Michael" would have sold if there hadn't been any controversy.

Judging by how well the Cirque du Soleil shows are doing, I would say the demand for Michael is certainly there. All we need is a high quality product, good marketing and just for once hopefully no controversy.

I only compared the two because they both released in 2010 and had new material from the respective artists.

Many fans did boycott Michael because of the controversial tracks... but do you really think it was enough that if those tracks weren't on the album, Michael would've overtaken My World 2.0 ? I believe that Michael has sold... 2-3 million copies, according to what I've heard fans claim. My World 2.0 has sold 5 million copies. While no doubt thousands and thousands of fans refused to buy Michael, I have my doubts that it would've pushed it up to 5 million copies where My World 2.0 is sitting at. 2.5 million copies is a substantial amount of copies for these two albums, and I highly doubt there were anywhere near that many fans boycotting Michael.

Besides, isn't Hollywood Tonight one of the controversial songs ? I know that HT was at #1 on the Billboard Dance/Club play charts for a while so perhaps this controversy wasn't as hard hitting as some MJ fans think ? And I don't think anyones saying there isn't any demand for Michael Jackson, the Immortal tour proves that. I know of people who have expressed interest in that show and the age gap is quite large. None of them would consider themselves part of Michael's fanbase though.

-------------------------------------

EDIT: Ok then, so let's compare two other albums then. Remix albums are generally aimed towards fans and there wasn't any 'boycotting controversy' around these following albums. Combine that with the little promotion for both albums and the playing ground seems fair (I'm fairly up to date with modern music and I don't remember much promotion for Believe Acoustic). Ok so we have Immortal (2011) and Believe Acoustic (2013), both are considered remix albums. Now there aren't many stats for either album in terms of overall sales, so I'm going to focus on the first week sales, when a lot of the fans would have bought the album.

In it's first week of sales, Immortal sold 43,000 copies in the USA, debuting at #24. 193,000 if you include Japan's 150,000 first week sales. Believe Acoustic debuted at #1 on the Billboard charts, selling 211,000 copies in the USA alone. I'm not sure how much it sold around the world or since then. It also entered the top ten in far more countries than Immortal (21 and 2 countries respectively). Now you could certainly argue MJ is not as popular in the USA as he was back at what many consider his 'peak' and that his fanbase outside of the USA is stronger, but it's also important to note that Bieber also has a strong fanbase outside of the USA.

Therefore, I think it's still quite safe to say that while Michael Jackson certainly still has a strong and dedicated fanbase in 2013, the fanbase of Justin Bieber is stronger than the fanbase of Michael Jackson in 2013.

In case anyone is wondering, I didn't use BOTDF because Michael was still 'current' at the time of release, as the success of HIStory shows. No one here is doubting that when Michael was current, he had a larger fanbase than what Bieber has now. The comparison between these albums have just to show that in 2010-2013 alone, Justin Bieber had a stronger fanbase than what the Michael Jackson fanbase had in 2010-2013. It doesn't make Bieber better than MJ because, as mentioned a few posts above, there is no correlation. It's just, as I said, 'the cycle of music' or whatever.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Long post ahoy!

Ok then, so let's compare two other albums then. Remix albums are generally aimed towards fans and there wasn't any 'boycotting controversy' around these following albums. Combine that with the little promotion for both albums and the playing ground seems fair (I'm fairly up to date with modern music and I don't remember much promotion for Believe Acoustic). Ok so we have Immortal (2011) and Believe Acoustic (2013), both are considered remix albums. Now there aren't many stats for either album in terms of overall sales, so I'm going to focus on the first week sales, when a lot of the fans would have bought the album.

In it's first week of sales, Immortal sold 43,000 copies in the USA, debuting at #24. 193,000 if you include Japan's 150,000 first week sales. Believe Acoustic debuted at #1 on the Billboard charts, selling 211,000 copies in the USA alone. I'm not sure how much it sold around the world or since then. It also entered the top ten in far more countries than Immortal (21 and 2 countries respectively). Now you could certainly argue MJ is not as popular in the USA as he was back at what many consider his 'peak' and that his fanbase outside of the USA is stronger, but it's also important to note that Bieber also has a strong fanbase outside of the USA.

Therefore, I think it's still quite safe to say that while Michael Jackson certainly still has a strong and dedicated fanbase in 2013, the fanbase of Justin Bieber is stronger than the fanbase of Michael Jackson in 2013.

In case anyone is wondering, I didn't use BOTDF because Michael was still 'current' at the time of release, as the success of HIStory shows. No one here is doubting that when Michael was current, he had a larger fanbase than what Bieber has now. The comparison between these albums have just to show that in 2010-2013 alone, Justin Bieber had a stronger fanbase than what the Michael Jackson fanbase had in 2010-2013. It doesn't make Bieber better than MJ because, as mentioned a few posts above, there is no correlation. It's just, as I said, 'the cycle of music' or whatever.

Totally agreed, but to be honest Believe Acoustic was promoted well. I'm honestly surprised that Immortal sold as much as it did. If I wasn't tuned into the Michael Jackson internet circle I honestly wouldn't know that it even came out. The most "promotion" I saw for it was a big display set up at my local Walmart. Believe Acoustic, meanwhile, was considerably bigger and hit harder. Both Justin and his label set up numerous interviews and performances to support it, not to mention that it had a few new songs tacked on.

But which fan base is stronger? I don't know.

We all know that recently Bieber has been a bit of a little brat. His commercial appeal has dwindled quite a bit since just last year. Many people that I know that once loved him can't stand him anymore. As a whole I would say that he still has quite a dense fan base, but given the way he's been acting recently I would say that the Michael Jackson community is closing in.


But on topic, promoting ANY posthumous album is tricky. I feel that they need to aim for a certain month when no big music releases are coming out. No Beyonce, no Mariah Carey, no Nicki Minaj, no anything. Then, even if sales aren't monumental, there's still a better chance of Michael reaching higher chart numbers. And of course we can't forget dropping the best first single possible -- definitely whatever the catchiest track is -- and making sure that every corner of the globe is aware that new music is a-coming.

Slightly off topic, but Sony has really screwed themselves over with this contract. Sure, the estate hasn't delivered absolutely perfect releases, but projects like Immortal and Bad 25, both of which were pretty damn good, saw VERY little promotion. Hell, the B25 documentary aired TWO MONTHS after the release! If they really want to make money they need to pull all the stops, do a huge marketing campaign. I can guarantee that if this next album is promoted well and spoken of highly, we will see some phenomenal sales numbers. (I'm aware that sales aren't necessarily everything, but come on. If you could see Michael Jackson hit the top five again, wouldn't you?)

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Long post ahoy!
Totally agreed, but to be honest Believe Acoustic was promoted well. I'm honestly surprised that Immortal sold as much as it did. If I wasn't tuned into the Michael Jackson internet circle I honestly wouldn't know that it even came out. The most "promotion" I saw for it was a big display set up at my local Walmart. Believe Acoustic, meanwhile, was considerably bigger and hit harder. Both Justin and his label set up numerous interviews and performances to support it, not to mention that it had a few new songs tacked on.

Was it promoted well ? I just remember hearing Bieber mention it on Ellen and seeing an ad for it on the iTunes Store homepage, that's it really. Maybe your local stores had displays for it like they did for Immortal ? I don't think mine did. I remember Sony promoted new material on Immortal, such as the TDCAU choir that MJ never used and I think the odd other thing (not entirely equivalent to 3 new songs, but still something).

But which fan base is stronger? I don't know.

We all know that recently Bieber has been a bit of a little brat. His commercial appeal has dwindled quite a bit since just last year. Many people that I know that once loved him can't stand him anymore. As a whole I would say that he still has quite a dense fan base, but given the way he's been acting recently I would say that the Michael Jackson community is closing in.

Yeah, he's still going strong but I too have noticed a bit of a decrease. I would say that at this moment in time, his fanbase is stronger than ours but if he keeps acting like a dick and releasing sub-par music (The songs he's released for Music Mondays have been terrible, and this is coming from a guy who actually likes some of his music), then his fanbase will continue to dwindle more and more. Maybe then we'll 'close in' as you said.

But on topic, promoting ANY posthumous album is tricky. I feel that they need to aim for a certain month when no big music releases are coming out. No Beyonce, no Mariah Carey, no Nicki Minaj, no anything. Then, even if sales aren't monumental, there's still a better chance of Michael reaching higher chart numbers. And of course we can't forget dropping the best first single possible -- definitely whatever the catchiest track is -- and making sure that every corner of the globe is aware that new music is a-coming.

That's a great idea ! ^_^ I was reading an article about Lady Gaga's new album and the article mentioned how Gaga is pretty much guaranteed #1 because she's the only major release that week. So perhaps, before they announce an actual release date, Sony could do some research and try and find a week where there's nothing much major coming out. In regards to the single, LOTS of promotion and effective marketing is needed. One way they could help advertise is by paying iTunes to display banners for it on the front page (I'm talking about #1 spot on the massive banners at the top of the front page). Give the single and the album the full iTunes treatment (aka the aforementioned banners, an awesome image on the single/album page, 'Mastered for iTunes' cos it sounds nice etc etc). If people see an advert on the front page for a new Michael Jackson song, they WILL take a look. That's just the iTunes Store alone, but ya know. It's absolutely CRUCIAL they go all out on this new album. Michael's not here to promote it with new short films and stuff so it's already harder, but if Sony puts in the time and effort, EVERYONE will be rewarded. Sony, the Estate, the fans, non-fans etc.

Another way to help MJ, as I mentioned in an earlier post... "is to have an unreleased song that is intended to be a duet feature a prominent artist today that is respected, such as, for example, Beyonce. None of this 'Pitbull' bullshit (The only song off an MJ cd I haven't even bothered to import, ugh). Seriously, a Michael Jackson feat. Beyonce song would absolutely slay the charts. You all saw the attention Slave 2 The Rhythm got from Beliebers when the Justin Bieber mix leaked. Bieber fans would have easily got that to #1 and, in all honesty, it probably would have stayed in the top 10 for a while (at least). If the artist is respected and popular enough, the single will do very well."

 

[HIStory]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I would just like to point out though, there are more people in the world who likes MJs music compared to Biebers music, I'm positive on that. That don't make them a fan though

I agree with that. In fact with all the hype around Bieber and him being a current artists whose fanbase is one of the most active online fanbases he's got 57 million followers on Facebook while Michael has 65 million. Of course it's another matter to turn that mass into record buyers, but the potential is there.

Citing the Michael album is not really a good example because it was a flop even with many fans. There was a controversy and that made fans (and the general public too) being distrustful of other posthumus projects as well. That controversy might have affected Immortal and Bad 25's sales as well. The MJ fanbase is a lot more complex than Justin Bieber's teenage fanbase so I find the comparation pretty flawed. MJ fandom has a difficult relationship with MJ's Estate as well - with one part of the fanbase not supporting the Estate and any Estate release. This all does not mean that MJ's fanbase is smaller than Justin Bieber's. Bieber's teenage fanbase is probably easier to mobilize, has more online presence and is probably easier to get buy records but I'm not sure if it's bigger. In fact, on Facebook more people say they like MJ than Bieber.

Plus it's not really fair to compare a dead artist and an artist who is still alive. Completely different marketability. A dead artist can't go to TV shows and on tours to support his material. He can't make new songs. A new release has to rely on old material.

 

[Sunwalker7]

You can't use the "Michael" album for comparison since many fans decided to boycott it because of the Cascio tracks, and they did it to protect Michael's legacy just as much as those who bought the album to make it chart. Did Justin Bieber's fans boycott his album? Surely not... And there is no way of knowing how many copies "Michael" would have sold if there hadn't been any controversy.

Judging by how well the Cirque du Soleil shows are doing, I would say the demand for Michael is certainly there. All we need is a high quality product, good marketing and just for once hopefully no controversy.

You’re right that it’s difficult to compare the Michael album to other albums, because some fans boycotted it. But it still sold much more than Immortal or Bad25. To be honest, Bad25’s sales were lower than I had expected. I didn’t expect huge sales because it was mostly intended for fans, casual listeners wouldn’t be interested in a re-release. Still, it only sold 27 000 copies in the US in the first week, and about 123 000 worldwide iirc. There was no reason for anyone to boycott it, and I would think that fans would want to buy it the first week after its release. So based on those sales I think the number of diehard MJ fans might not be all that high.

But you’re right about the Cirque du Soleil shows too - they’ve been incredibly successful, and that shows that with the right product the demand for Michael is definitely there. Of course, the show’s success doesn’t necessarily mean that the general public would be interested in a new posthumous MJ album. But it’s still great to see that a show like that can be such a huge success. It wasn’t just for fans, casual listeners love the show too.

As for Bieber, I think right now he has a stronger fanbase in the sense that he has more fans who will buy any product with his name on it. He’s not as popular as he used to be, but he still has a lot of very dedicated fans who buy his albums and singles the minute they’re released. That’s the way it is with teen pop stars - they have a huge, totally fanatical fanbase, who will buy anything with their idol’s name on it. Sooner or later the fans will move on and the pop idol will be replaced with some other teen pop sensation. But at the peak of their popularity they have a very strong fanbase.

Another thing to consider too is that MJ fans are much more critical of new releases than Bieber fans. Bieber fans can buy anything with his name on it, because they don’t need to worry about things like artistic credibility or respecting his artistic vision. With posthumous MJ releases it’s not that easy. For example, if that tragic Slave to the Rhythm duet had been an actual song intended for release, what would have happened? Bieber fans would have bought it the minute it hit the stores. Some Michael fans would have bought it too to support Michael, but definitely not all. Some would have felt that a duet with someone like Bieber is an insult to Michael as an artist, and they would never support that song.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I agree with that. In fact with all the hype around Bieber and him being a current artists whose fanbase is one of the most active online fanbases he's got 57 million followers on Facebook while Michael has 65 million. Of course it's another matter to turn that mass into record buyers, but the potential is there.

Citing the Michael album is not really a good example because it was a flop even with many fans. There was a controversy and that made fans (and the general public too) being distrustful of other posthumus projects as well. That controversy might have affected Immortal and Bad 25's sales as well. The MJ fanbase is a lot more complex than Justin Bieber's teenage fanbase so I find the comparation pretty flawed. MJ fandom has a difficult relationship with MJ's Estate as well - with one part of the fanbase not supporting the Estate and any Estate release. This all does not mean that MJ's fanbase is smaller than Justin Bieber's. Bieber's teenage fanbase is probably easier to mobilize, has more online presence and is probably easier to get buy records but I'm not sure if it's bigger. In fact, on Facebook more people say they like MJ than Bieber.

You raise some good points, and while I agree with some (ie the potential for MJ to sell a high number of records is still there), I still think Bieber's fanbase is stronger than MJs current fanbase at this point in time... for many reasons you actually bring up actually. I, personally, don't really understand why fans were skeptical of Immortal and Bad 25. The Estate made it clear on Bad 25 that nothing was changed from when Michael last touched it, and Immortal is well, a remix album. They can say they refuse to support the Estate because of their screw up with Michael, but refusing to support them when they actually do well is like punishing a baby for doing good. Of course, I'm not really gonna debate this particular issue further cos the biggest thread on this forum is dedicated to this subject

One of the reasons that the Bieber fanbase is stronger than Michael's fanbase is that they're pretty much 'united'. You're right, the Michael Jackson fanbase is complex and quite disjointed on many issues. There is less arguing and debating in Bieber's fanbase and as such they are able to mobilise easier. If the Michael Jackson fanbase wasn't so busy arguing, they would be 'stronger' and be able to accomplish more.

Overall, there are waaaaay more people who like Michael's music than people who like Justin's music. No one in their right mind would deny that. Hell, we all know Michael has 65,000,000 likes on Facebook. However, liking an artists music =/= part of the fanbase, and liking a page on Facebook =/= part of the fanbase either. A quite large number of my friends like the MJ page, but I know a large number of those people wouldn't consider themselves part of the MJ fanbase. Same with me, I like a number of artists on Facebook, but for most of them I don't consider myself as part of their fanbase. I just wanna add though, I think 65 million fans on Facebook is actually really awesome and quite a feat in itself, especially for an artist no longer with us. Online presence is important in a day and age where the internet is pretty much becoming an essential part of day to day life and Bieber's fanbase has the advantage of this too, as you mentioned.

So overrall, another reason their fanbase is stronger is because of their unity, the lack of 'friction' and arguing in their fanbase, the fact they don't have anything against Bieber's management and the online presence they hold they're currently a stronger fanbase than us. They are more in a position to actually get things done than Michael's fanbase, which is, as you said, very complex and disjointed. Hell, perhaps Michael's fanbase is still bigger than Bieber's in terms of number, but at the end of the day, the Bieber fanbase is stronger because they are able to get things done better than the MJ fanbase. If this fanbase wasn't as disjointed as it was, we could accomplish a lot more and thus be stronger. Harsh I suppose, but true, at least to a degree.

EDIT: In saying this though, after some recent rumours arose (i.e. the upcoming album is going to have both modern mixes and demos), the majority of fans seemed positive and keen for this release so maybe for once, since Michael, we'll be able to have a proper new MJ release where we can see the full power of the fanbase. One that is boycott-free and the Estate/Sony have marketed really really really well. I'd love that

 

[Sunwalker7]

So overrall, another reason their fanbase is stronger is because of their unity, the lack of 'friction' and arguing in their fanbase, the fact they don't have anything against Bieber's management and the online presence they hold they're currently a stronger fanbase than us. They are more in a position to actually get things done than Michael's fanbase, which is, as you said, very complex and disjointed. Hell, perhaps Michael's fanbase is still bigger than Bieber's in terms of number, but at the end of the day, the Bieber fanbase is stronger because they are able to get things done better than the MJ fanbase. If this fanbase wasn't as disjointed as it was, we could accomplish a lot more and thus be stronger. Harsh I suppose, but true, at least to a degree.

I think you’re absolutely right about that. Michael’s fanbase could be much stronger if we were united, but we’re not, and it affects everything. If Bieber releases a new song all of his fans will rush to buy it. Even if they don’t like the song most of them will still buy it because that’s the kind of song their idol wanted to make at that point and they want to support him.

But when a new posthumous Michael song is released not all fans are going to buy it. Some are against all posthumous releases in general, and won’t buy them no matter what. Then there are those who boycott the new releases because they hate the Estate/Sony and who feel it’s more important to boycott them than to support Michael. And then some fans who are willing to buy some posthumous releases might think that particular release isn't good enough, or they just genuinely have no interest in it. Remixes especially are something that some fans simply aren’t interested in.

So there are many reasons why the number of actual fans is higher than the number of people buying new releases. How much higher is impossible to say. But if we’re talking about commercial success it doesn’t really matter how many people really like Michael deep in their hearts. What matters is how many of those people are actually going to buy his albums.

EDIT: In saying this though, after some recent rumours arose (i.e. the upcoming album is going to have both modern mixes and demos), the majority of fans seemed positive and keen for this release so maybe for once, since Michael, we'll be able to have a proper new MJ release where we can see the full power of the fanbase. One that is boycott-free and the Estate/Sony have marketed really really really well. I'd love that

I’d love that too.

 

[Zakk]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

i'm ready to get this cd through my letterbox, put it in my blu ray player and turn the volume to as loud as it'll go on my speakers. I hope it will be put together correctly though, how Michael would have done it. For example, not putting the same first letter after each other, e.g. 1. Chicago 2. Can't Get Your Weight Off Me i dislike it when that happens, should be 1. Chicago 2. A Place With No Name. imo, i'm picky yes.. but when that happens on the tracklisting, it just looks a little amateurish to me. So when do you guys think we can expect some kind of announcement then?

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

So when do you guys think we can expect some kind of announcement then?

My guess is we'll get an announcement roughly 3 months before the albums release. I've noticed most albums these days are officially announced approximately 3-4 months before their release date so it'll probably be the same with the upcoming album

 

[Sunwalker7]

But on topic, promoting ANY posthumous album is tricky. I feel that they need to aim for a certain month when no big music releases are coming out. No Beyonce, no Mariah Carey, no Nicki Minaj, no anything. Then, even if sales aren't monumental, there's still a better chance of Michael reaching higher chart numbers. And of course we can't forget dropping the best first single possible -- definitely whatever the catchiest track is -- and making sure that every corner of the globe is aware that new music is a-coming.

I agree, timing is important. All artists have to decide whether to release an album during the 4th quarter of the year when sales are at their highest, or during a slower time when you might sell less but reach a higher chart peak.

Personally I think that at this point it would be better to release during a slower time. A higher chart peak would mean more visibility for the album. If the album makes it to the top 10 or to 5 it would mean that more people would notice it, and hopefully check it out and maybe even buy it themselves. I don’t think there’s any huge hype for a new posthumous MJ album right now, so if it’s released during a busy time it might get lost in the shuffle. The end of this year for example would have been a terrible time to release a MJ album imo - many a-list pop stars are releasing their new albums, and of course the attention will be on them. A posthumous release can’t really compete with a new studio album by a current big star, even if it is a Michael Jackson album.

 

[HIStoric]

I agree, timing is important. All artists have to decide whether to release an album during the 4th quarter of the year when sales are at their highest, or during a slower time when you might sell less but reach a higher chart peak.

Personally I think that at this point it would be better to release during a slower time. A higher chart peak would mean more visibility for the album. If the album makes it to the top 10 or to 5 it would mean that more people would notice it, and hopefully check it out and maybe even buy it themselves. I don’t think there’s any huge hype for a new posthumous MJ album right now, so if it’s released during a busy time it might get lost in the shuffle. The end of this year for example would have been a terrible time to release a MJ album imo - many a-list pop stars are releasing their new albums, and of course the attention will be on them. A posthumous release can’t really compete with a new studio album by a current big star, even if it is a Michael Jackson album.

Yeah. I was excited for the possibility of a new album this year but you make a very good point Sunwalker, it would be a terrible time for a posthumous album to be released right now. Many a-list artists are releasing albums in the next month or so... Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Eminem and One Direction are just a few off the top of my head and they themselves will be fiercely fighting for attention so a posthumous album could be 'lost in the shuffle' as you say. Sometime next year when the music industry is a bit quieter would definitely be a lot better for a posthumous album. Perhaps March or something ?

Would make a pretty cool christmas gift to be honest. Announce the album as a gift to fans around (or just after) Christmas time, release the first single first thing in January and BOOM !

 

[Zakk]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

and let's also hope it isn't called ''MICHAEL II'' or ''JACKSON'' that'd be chaos amongst a large number of fans i think, it should be MICHAEL JACKSON.... Possibly Chicago? Blue Gangsta? A Place With No Name? Now & Then? Now, Then, Forever? She Was Lovin' Me? i think all of them could be great titles and would draw attention to this project, have a booklet with Michael's handwritten notes, lyrics, credits, year it was recorded. photo's of Michael in the studio, thing's like that. 'Michael' debued at #3 in the UK. if this is commercially advertised correctly then i see it having no trouble of reaching #2 or even #1.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

and let's also hope it isn't called ''MICHAEL II'' or ''JACKSON'' that'd be chaos amongst a large number of fans i think, it should be MICHAEL JACKSON.... Possibly Chicago? Blue Gangsta? A Place With No Name? Now & Then? Now, Then, Forever? She Was Lovin' Me? i think all of them could be great titles and would draw attention to this project, have a booklet with Michael's handwritten notes, lyrics, credits, year it was recorded. photo's of Michael in the studio, thing's like that. 'Michael' debued at #3 in the UK. if this is commercially advertised correctly then i see it having no trouble of reaching #2 or even #1.

Oh god, let's not give them ideas Zakk :bugeyed Haha but nah, I don't think they should call it "Michael Jackson". Calling an album the name of the artist is often linked to a debut album or something and I don't know... it suggests a lack of creativity or focus ? I actually thought Immortal would've been a cool name for a posthumous studio album, it's a shame that it was used up on a remix album (though I think the tour itself is amazing LOL). I'm not really sure what they should call it to be honest. Something that gives off an... 'immortal' like vibe... a name that suggests Michael is here to stay and you bitches better get used to it

I think the booklet for Michael wasn't too shabby to be honest. It had the lyrics in it and handwritten notes by MJ too. I think they could take it a step further as well for this upcoming album. Have photos of MJ working on these songs in the studio, more notes of what he thinks they should be. Maybe interviews with the producers of the respective songs, them discussing how or why they did something and what their intention was. Maybe a little background information on the song too. For example, for A Place With No Name, they could talk about how America felt honoured by Michael covering and adapting their song and how they were happy for him to have done it. They should also do an iTunes LP for the iTunes Store as well. Always looks the album look more attractive on the store and can increase the chance it is purchased !

And yes, if Michael can reach #3, this upcoming album can certainly reach the top spot so long as Sony advertise it effectively and make it clear that this is an album full of new, unreleased recordings. I hope they don't return to any previously released material (I'm looking at you The Way You Love Me).
I just want straight up, never before released material - songs that have leaked but not been officially released are a-ok ^_^

 

[HIStory]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I, personally, don't really understand why fans were skeptical of Immortal and Bad 25. The Estate made it clear on Bad 25 that nothing was changed from when Michael last touched it, and Immortal is well, a remix album. They can say they refuse to support the Estate because of their screw up with Michael, but refusing to support them when they actually do well is like punishing a baby for doing good.

Just as I don't believe in blindly supporting anything that the Estate puts out I also do not believe in blindly dismissing it, but there is a big portion of the MJ fanbase who are just like that. How big that portion is - whether it's a majority or minority - is anyone's guess, but there is such a part of the fandom. It's not just about the Michael album for them, but some believe the Will is fake, some believe in some conspiracy between Sony and the Estate, some support the Jackson family in their fight against the Estate etc. Then there are those who do not have any problems with the Estate but they are just not interested in buying posthumus releases out of the principle: if MJ did not supervise it it's not really an MJ product. For them MJ's career ended the day he died and they are not interested in anything else.

Overall, there are waaaaay more people who like Michael's music than people who like Justin's music. No one in their right mind would deny that. Hell, we all know Michael has 65,000,000 likes on Facebook. However, liking an artists music =/= part of the fanbase, and liking a page on Facebook =/= part of the fanbase either. A quite large number of my friends like the MJ page, but I know a large number of those people wouldn't consider themselves part of the MJ fanbase. Same with me, I like a number of artists on Facebook, but for most of them I don't consider myself as part of their fanbase. I just wanna add though, I think 65 million fans on Facebook is actually really awesome and quite a feat in itself, especially for an artist no longer with us. Online presence is important in a day and age where the internet is pretty much becoming an essential part of day to day life and Bieber's fanbase has the advantage of this too, as you mentioned.

That's true but that's not only true about MJ's Facebook likes but also about Bieber's and any other artists'. 57 million people do not buy Bieber records. Far from it. His best selling album sold like 5 million worldwide, so out of those 57 million people who like him on FB only a tiny portion are actually willing to buy his records.

Michael's best selling album is actually a lot closer to his FB likes - even according to most cautious estimates Thriller sold about 65 million worldwide and that about equals his FB likes. (If FB was around during Thriller era I think he could have had like 500 million likes on his FB.) But a huge portion of that number are definitely not die-hards, but casual fans. Many may only be interested in Thriller and nothing else. Many may like him when he comes on the radio and enough to like him on FB but not enough to go out and buy a record.

Posthumus releases are very difficult to market. Not just some die hard fans but most casuals may not be interested in them. I have seen people who are not fans say things like all these posthumus releases are just about how to make money of someone's death. People also think since it's formerly unreleased material it must be somewhat sub-par compared to what was released. "There must be a reason why it wasn't released the first time around", they say. And many think it's just downright disrespectful to an artist to release material he chose not to release when he was alive.

So there are lots of complicated attitudes towards posthumus releases - and on top of that even the hard core MJ fanbase is very divided. So it's really a difficult task to make a posthumus MJ release a huge success. I'd say at this point, with how divided the MJ fanbase is, with all the attitudes against the Estate, the general public is needed to make it successful. The MJ fanbase alone won't. Not necessarily because they are few, but because of all the above mentioned problems and attitudes.

 

[HIStory]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I think the booklet for Michael wasn't too shabby to be honest. It had the lyrics in it and handwritten notes by MJ too. I think they could take it a step further as well for this upcoming album. Have photos of MJ working on these songs in the studio, more notes of what he thinks they should be. Maybe interviews with the producers of the respective songs, them discussing how or why they did something and what their intention was. Maybe a little background information on the song too. For example, for A Place With No Name, they could talk about how America felt honoured by Michael covering and adapting their song and how they were happy for him to have done it. They should also do an iTunes LP for the iTunes Store as well. Always looks the album look more attractive on the store and can increase the chance it is purchased !

Yes, it's a good idea to have the stories of all of the songs in the booklet, not just the lyrics and credits. MJ's creative process is interesting for hard core fans and may include a lot of positively surprising things for the general public.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

So there are lots of complicated attitudes towards posthumus releases - and on top of that even the hard core MJ fanbase is very divided. So it's really a difficult task to make a posthumus MJ release a huge success. I'd say at this point, with how divided the MJ fanbase is, with all the attitudes against the Estate, the general public is needed to make it successful. The MJ fanbase alone won't. Not necessarily because they are few, but because of all the above mentioned problems and attitudes.

Some fair, valid points

Yes, it's a good idea to have the stories of all of the songs in the booklet, not just the lyrics and credits. MJ's creative process is interesting for hard core fans and may include a lot of positively surprising things for the general public.

Yeah, it'd be nice to hear some short stories or snippets by those who worked with him on the specific songs that will be on this new album ! If they don't have much to say on the specific song either, they could always write a small piece about how it was to work with Michael, the experience and how it made them feel, during and afterwards. I don't know. Maybe, if they do an iTunes LP, they could include videos that you click on and it's footage of MJ in the studio or something ? (Don't worry if you don't buy the iTunes version, it'd get onto Youtube pretty quickly). Just something unique that makes you want to actually take the time and go through the booklet and appreciate it ^_^

 

[KOPV]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I personally like when MJ CD's are one word titles that could be describing him.. Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, Invincible!! I am not sure though with the titles of the tracks we know of if we have that opportunity.. I would not be ok with an album called "Loser" haha!! Any song could have a semi altered title though, but all the ones I think of I don't like... "slave" um no..

So we will just have to wait and see..

 

[Zakk]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I personally like when MJ CD's are one word titles that could be describing him.. Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, Invincible!! I am not sure though with the titles of the tracks we know of if we have that opportunity.. I would not be ok with an album called "Loser" haha!! Any song could have a semi altered title though, but all the ones I think of I don't like... "slave" um no..

So we will just have to wait and see..

how about calling it ''no name'' haha, how cool would that be though just like system of a down's ''steal this album'' i think would be epic :lol: of course i'm joking. but what if, oh my i'm buying it whatever it's called though, very excited.

 

[dam2040]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

All of Michael Jackson's albums are named after a song on the album, this should be no different.

 

[Zakk]

Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

All of Michael Jackson's albums are named after a song on the album, this should be no different.

i think you're forgetting. Forever, Michael. that album did not have a song with that title. yes, it's one of his early motown lp's but.. still a fact. sorry