To this financier, Michael Jackson is an undervalued asset (Merged)

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VNC of course not if he falls ill and it's a valid illness will he not be sued but he has to complete the contract unless he cannot then i doubt he'll be allowed to tour ever again or perform. they have him on lockdown, contract wise, or else they wouldn't allow something like this to be printed.

two big entities, if this was slandering them or false quotes, we'd be hearing it about now so let's wait and see.

but if it's cuz he's sick or cannot perform, then that's another thing. but i pray to God he does well and i have faith in him as a performer. this is just their little warning, it seems....don't go through w/ it and we got problems
 
VNC of course not if he falls ill and it's a valid illness will he not be sued but he has to complete the contract unless he cannot then i doubt he'll be allowed to tour ever again or perform. they have him on lockdown, contract wise, or else they wouldn't allow something like this to be printed.

two big entities, if this was slandering them or false quotes, we'd be hearing it about now so let's wait and see.

but if it's cuz he's sick or cannot perform, then that's another thing. but i pray to God he does well and i have faith in him as a performer. this is just their little warning, it seems....don't go through w/ it and we got problems

i don't believe the lockdown ish. he doesn't have to perform. and ain't no stoppin him from performin if he wants to. that's crazy. lol

he's not gunna sign that kind of contract. nobody ever had that kind of stanglehold on him and he's not gunna start now. if 'lockdown' were the case, i'd bet everything i have that he wouldn't even be doing this. u attract more bees with honey. u don't threaten someone and expect a deal. they couldn't possibly threaten him and expect to succeed. how is MJ's creativity helped by goons holding a club over his head? MJ says it in his lyrics. NObody controls him. he means what he sings. he has a higher belief system than being afraid of people. and as far as hearing about stuff? the LA times is disrespectful. they ain't lettin us hear anything about slander. they misquote people when they want, and we don't always hear about it. MJ is misquoted all the time. and we don't always hear about it.

if anything i bet MJ advised them not to chase down every misquote. it would make them tired.

but sure...i'll pray about it. i'll wait and see...

but if it seems to you it's a warning or they got problems..i submit to you, the LA times created that atmosphere, because they don't respect him, they think he's J****. and why do they disrespect and hate on him? cus they can't control him. and he's succeeding despite them.
 
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If he was gonna be sick, would he not do the concerts? :scratch: I mean I know you can postpone dates, but if he really had this rumored disease, I don't think he would've agreed to do the concerts, it ain't like he's a puppet or something.
 
If he was gonna be sick, would he not do the concerts? :scratch: I mean I know you can postpone dates, but if he really had this rumored disease, I don't think he would've agreed to do the concerts, it ain't like he's a puppet or something.

yeah. i don't mean he has a disease.

i don't think that in the slightest.

i just think he wasn't bullied into this contract. he did it cus he wants to. but he made room for life. as we all know, life gets in the way of plans. if something unforseen happens, i'm sure there's room for it. sorta like an insurance company won't hold itself liable for 'acts of God'.

i believe AEG has already proven that they don't have a stranglehold on MJ. dates have already been moved. in effect, a concert date was cancelled. July 8. and AEG is still stayin with him.

it's always good to know that no matter how many times u buy a ticket, u r taking a risk. life does get in the way of plans. something might still happen. and i don't believe AEG's gunna gun for MJ. i'm sure MJ has made sure that doesn't happen.

he's smarter than most artists. but there are other artists that see that life gets in the way of plans. cancellations happen ALL the time. the only reason why this 'do or die' language is being used in the press, with MJ is because Michael's vast popularity brings this mundane subject into the spotlight.

and as u said, so so def...this is another time when we are getting ultra worried about MJ, only to find out in the future, that there will have been nothing to worry about. :)
 
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Re: To this financier, Michael Jackson is an undervalued asset

i don't see MJ as falling. where was the fall? the trial? heh..that was slander, and hate. and these guys are spending his money. and he borrows against assets. that's not like borrowing against credit, like a lot of people do. i guess i'm alone in seeing that MJ is not in need of money or in a place to have career suicide. those melodratic lines have been following MJ for years. and it's never happened. it's boy cried wolf to me. so i feel alright believing what i believe. i've never believed in the media. i ain't startin now. if we were blind, and the media said MJ didn't exist. i'm afraid too many would believe it. well...i stand corrected. there are others out there that believe MJ didn't fall. i'm one of em.

and what is this about Britney falling? having a breakdown isn't a fall to me. Mariah broke down too. that's not considered a fall, either.

anyway, there's just this view. that MJ is a lamb, and people around him are lions. well, the lamb is the victor. and he's also a lion. one way i'll agree with the media: that's our story, and i'm stickin to it. lol.

hey...we're all on the outside, looking in, anyway. :lol:




You are not alone; I feel the exact same way. The media cannot be believed.There seems to be alot bet on making this not happen and yes I am including all these ridiculous lawsuits That were filed and are being filed since January 2009.


Great post!:yes:
 
Re: To this financier, Michael Jackson is an undervalued asset

You are not alone; I feel the exact same way. The media cannot be believed.There seems to be alot bet on making this not happen and yes I am including all these ridiculous lawsuits That were filed and are being filed since January 2009.


Great post!:yes:

thanks. :)
 
i don't believe the lockdown ish. he doesn't have to perform. and ain't no stoppin him from performin if he wants to. that's crazy. lol

he's not gunna sign that kind of contract. nobody ever had that kind of stanglehold on him and he's not gunna start now. if 'lockdown' were the case, i'd bet everything i have that he wouldn't even be doing this. u attract more bees with honey. u don't threaten someone and expect a deal. they couldn't possibly threaten him and expect to succeed.

.
u must not understand what a contract is.

he doesn't have to perform? then where the hell is the money gonna go that the fans put out? that aeg paid to make the stages and sets and to get the dancers etc....? he can just walk away like that and no penalty? is this reality or fantasy?

it's not a threat 'expecting them to succeed' it's a blatant comment that says for ur sake, u'd better do this this cuz there's not good news in stake for u if u don't.

read it again....his career will be ruined if he doesn't perform b/c if he's too sick, then he can never perform again until he fulfills his contract OR he can buy his way out of them like he did w/ avram...u think he can afford to buy his way ou tof this? debt or no debt?

sometimes common sense isn't so common...it's not all cut and dry and happy times...they are businessmen putting money into this, if it doesn't go down well, it's his ass on the line and his career on the line
 
u must not understand what a contract is.

he doesn't have to perform? then where the hell is the money gonna go that the fans put out? that aeg paid to make the stages and sets and to get the dancers etc....? he can just walk away like that and no penalty? is this reality or fantasy?

it's not a threat 'expecting them to succeed' it's a blatant comment that says for ur sake, u'd better do this this cuz there's not good news in stake for u if u don't.

read it again....his career will be ruined if he doesn't perform b/c if he's too sick, then he can never perform again until he fulfills his contract OR he can buy his way out of them like he did w/ avram...u think he can afford to buy his way ou tof this? debt or no debt?

sometimes common sense isn't so common...it's not all cut and dry and happy times...they are businessmen putting money into this, if it doesn't go down well, it's his ass on the line and his career on the line


i'm not sayin everything ur sayin, but we'll agree to disagree:)

and i'll just end with sayin that MJ is not common.
 
but common sense should apply.

sorry but no one is doing this for their health, it's for money...lots of it and if it doesn't go down, someone has to pay. adn if it's not due to aeg error and it's mj's fault, illness or not, he has to pay.

it's plain and simple. they're not gonna let him walk away leaving them holding the bag. sorry but these are high level businessmen.
 
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-michael-jackson31-2009may31,0,1441957.story?page=1


This time, however, Jackson was receptive. He needed the money, and he has a second, more personal reason: His children -- sons Prince Michael, 7, and Michael Joseph Jackson Jr., 12, and daughter Paris Michael Katherine, 11 -- have never seen him perform live.

"They are old enough to appreciate and understand what I do and I am still young enough to do it," Phillips quoted Jackson as saying.


This I found very moving. And very understandable as well. I do think this is part of his motivation, to show his children what this is all about. The reason why he is in the position he is as an artist. Not just the crazy paparazzies, and the strange stories, and all the crap that has happened.
In a way I think that this might be his strongest personal motivation.
 
"You are talking about a guy who could make $500 million a year if he puts his mind to it," Barrack said recently. "There are very few individual artists who are multibillion-dollar businesses. And he is one."
God knows he is the only one.




Phillips estimates ticket sales for the global concerts would exceed $450 million

^^why would he get just 450 million touring the world while Celine gets 400 millions for Vegas shows?
 
"Michael Jackson is an institution. He needs to be run like an institution," Tohme said.
^^i like that

the damage done by years of excessive spending and little work.
^^they are talking about his employees & false friends

"finding little pieces of information that others don't have"
^^very important - not only in this times
 
"Michael Jackson is an institution. He needs to be run like an institution," Tohme said.
^^i like that

the damage done by years of excessive spending and little work.
^^they are talking about his employees & false friends

"finding little pieces of information that others don't have"
^^very important - not only in this times

I actually cringed at that part. I mean, I understand what he means, but at the same time he has to understand that institution is a living breathing person and a very creative one. I'll go out on a limb and say trying to run a creative person like an institution doesn't exactly help on the creative level all that much. I DO get what he means, tho. MJ is a business and sure, there should definitely be some structure to keep the business going and growing. Institution sounds a bit severe tho, imo. The first thing that comes to my mind when I see that word is: straight jacket. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Sounds stifling, rigid and sterile. Eek!
 
I actually cringed at that part. I mean, I understand what he means, but at the same time he has to understand that institution is a living breathing person and a very creative one. I'll go out on a limb and say trying to run a creative person like an institution doesn't exactly help on the creative level all that much. I DO get what he means, tho. MJ is a business and sure, there should definitely be some structure to keep the business going and growing. Institution sounds a bit severe tho, imo. The first thing that comes to my mind when I see that word is: straight jacket. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Sounds stifling, rigid and sterile. Eek!

i agree.:yes: i'm tired of recession minded people thinking they can run a non recession minded artist. if he ain't broke, don't fix him. financially, he's just got a better mind than they have.

usually when ur attracted to someone u think u can fix, it's really u, deep inside,(under ur envious skin) saying u can take tips from them.

they r in their own recession. he's not. they are the ones who took financial hits. he didn't. they're the ones who are in love with their money. he's not in love with his. they're the ones who are afraid to spend. he's not.

no wonder all these 'financial gurus' are more magnetized to him than they are to each other. and they are cowards for following the media's lying lead, with their stories about Michael.

lol..the evidence is out there. i don't have to talk about it..tho i like to. lol. the old saying goes, u gotta spend money to make money. but nobody wants to follow that advice. but when someone does, others get mad at him. cus they know the advice works. so they accuse him of frivolous spending. u can't just come up with advice, shun it, then hate on somebody else for successfully following it.

these people always want more money than they're willing to spend, but, somehow, they fail to see the simplicity of that process still being in effect when they're on the tail end of it.
 
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they r in their own recession. he's not. they are the ones who took financial hits. he didn't. they're the ones who are in love with their money. he's not in love with his. they're the ones who are afraid to spend. he's not.
i think that's what they're hinting his problem is...spending and not realizing money is actually a tool and can help....and something he's fighting to keep and actually earn by way of work andnot royalties etc....

people in his past, no matter how long they've served him, have screwed him. people in this biz get screwed over a lot but since he's an artist on a grand scale, that's usually the size of the screw ups...grand scale and those who've hurt him have done it on a grand scale.

this is saying, if u don't complete this, you'renot gonna have a career...this can make u a financial demon but it can also crumble u financially if u don't complete it. read between the lines
 
i think that's what they're hinting his problem is...spending and not realizing money is actually a tool and can help....and something he's fighting to keep and actually earn by way of work andnot royalties etc....

people in his past, no matter how long they've served him, have screwed him. people in this biz get screwed over a lot but since he's an artist on a grand scale, that's usually the size of the screw ups...grand scale and those who've hurt him have done it on a grand scale.

this is saying, if u don't complete this, you'renot gonna have a career...this can make u a financial demon but it can also crumble u financially if u don't complete it. read between the lines

na. i'm not gunna fall into the trap of going around on it, cus people keep accusing me of repeating things.

all i'm gunna say is, his career cannot be ruined. he didn't have to do this. he's set for life. and it ain't 'just royalties'. royalties ain't anything to sneeze at. it really doesn't matter what other people think. all that matters is his mindset. not ours on behalf of him.

i read between more lines than you think. lol.

and who says MJ is fighting to keep anything?

they begged him to perform. he didn't beg them to let him perform.

i also notice that what people perceive as a 'failed attempt' in Michael's life is also perceived as the end of his career. the reality is, there's no wealthy person that doesn't have a 'bad day'. the true wealthy people have bad days. in that world, it's part of their success. the risk/reward factor. which is why they call it that. but, for some reason, the other wealthy ones aren't considered ruined when they have bad days. only Michael is considered ruined, when he has a bad day.

there is no such thing as a wealthy person that doesn't have a 'bad day'. if someone says there is one, it's a lie. because the downhill ride propells them uphill to success. the definition of 'bad day' for a wealthy risk/reward taker is not the same definition of 'bad day' for other people. missing the mark is not a bad thing. it's a good thing. it's an ally.
 
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shaun, ur random ass...lol

his career can be ruined...he signed a contract. if he bails, they can hold him to this, he cannot perform again until he fullfills it. he will owe them the money they're out b/c of this, it's not cut and dry.

u don't perform shows or promise to perform shows then stop halfway. an artist doing this like a tour for an album is different. u can cancel shows if they're not selling well. ur record lable is backing u and u have multiple sponsors that are paying for the tour.

this is different....this is a contract that, if broken for frivolous reasons, can be financially devastating for michael. i don't get the feeling mj is doing this for his health. i was in court, he's got debt. we all know that.

mind u, they say that so long as u hav eassets, u can't be poor, but if he sells atv and accuf rose, what does he have? he just now got the masters to his own work (25 yrs or older)and trust when i say the royalties aren't that much when things are broken down.

mj ain't got girraffe money like he used to. if he did, he wouldn't need to do these shows.

his career can be ruined, the loyalties of his fans may not budge but career wise, it couldbe catastrophic.

but didn't u read the words from the fans who were affected by him moving shows around? if just a re-schedule can spark tempers and emotions as strong as that, imagine a straight up cancellation.

now im not saying he's gonna but if fans go off like that, it's gonnabe that and worse if something major happens. after everything he's been through, this is what could ruin his fan base the most. isn't that pathetic?

and tehre's two types of rich....cash rich meaning u have liquid cash or those who are rich but don't have it in hand or at the bank...they have to liquidate their assets to get cash.

these shows are the best and worse things to ever happen to him. the best thing to do is to embrace this relationship w/ aeg for as long as it's healthy and thenmove on using the platform they've provided to take his business and career to an all new and higher level.
 
I still say AEG stitched him up with these shows not only michael but his fans too.

Aeg are full of it
 
I too agree with Soso in her assessment of this.

But, I seriously doubt that the concerts would have happened if not all parties involved were confident that this would go in the right direction.
As in so many cases when it comes to Michael, the press is digging to get some negative spinn on things. Why? Because negative news sells better, scandal sells better etc..
 
shaun, ur random ass...lol

his career can be ruined...he signed a contract. if he bails, they can hold him to this, he cannot perform again until he fullfills it. he will owe them the money they're out b/c of this, it's not cut and dry.

u don't perform shows or promise to perform shows then stop halfway. an artist doing this like a tour for an album is different. u can cancel shows if they're not selling well. ur record lable is backing u and u have multiple sponsors that are paying for the tour.

this is different....this is a contract that, if broken for frivolous reasons, can be financially devastating for michael. i don't get the feeling mj is doing this for his health. i was in court, he's got debt. we all know that.

mind u, they say that so long as u hav eassets, u can't be poor, but if he sells atv and accuf rose, what does he have? he just now got the masters to his own work (25 yrs or older)and trust when i say the royalties aren't that much when things are broken down.

mj ain't got girraffe money like he used to. if he did, he wouldn't need to do these shows.

his career can be ruined, the loyalties of his fans may not budge but career wise, it couldbe catastrophic.

but didn't u read the words from the fans who were affected by him moving shows around? if just a re-schedule can spark tempers and emotions as strong as that, imagine a straight up cancellation.

now im not saying he's gonna but if fans go off like that, it's gonnabe that and worse if something major happens. after everything he's been through, this is what could ruin his fan base the most. isn't that pathetic?

and tehre's two types of rich....cash rich meaning u have liquid cash or those who are rich but don't have it in hand or at the bank...they have to liquidate their assets to get cash.

these shows are the best and worse things to ever happen to him. the best thing to do is to embrace this relationship w/ aeg for as long as it's healthy and thenmove on using the platform they've provided to take his business and career to an all new and higher level.

well...i once again agree to disagree. u can't even agree wit those financiers ur on board with. they say MJ's a billion dollar business. and u say he don't have giraffe money anymore. and they can't agree wit themselves. they say he's a billion dollar business, while sayin he's in trouble at the same time. so u can't agree wit someone u agree wit, who can't agree wit themselves.

sorry. i can't ride wit ya.

there is something suspect to focusing on MJ and saying that he is the only one who seems to be lacking somewhere, as compared to celine dion and other artists, financially.(especially since MJ was able to take 12 years off and those other artists had to perform during that time, and u just went on about MJ 'having to perform'. let's take those two things into consideration. 12 years, 12 lonnggggg frigging years. that's more than a decade, and more than five times the regeneration of the fanbase, to be waiting to perform again, the way and length of time, celine and all the other artists had to perform. how do u reconcile those two things?) and it cannot be dismissed, that this is the pattern of the media, too.(as i think of the lyrics to 'tabloid junkie') this notation just cannot be dismissed.

no...i don't know he's in debt. cus he's not.

i have confidence in MJ. he's not frivolous.


this is someone who didn't let his emotions get in the way, when he fired his father and left his good friend, Berry Gordy. am i supposed to believe he deteriorated over time, busineswise? he's Mr. business. and i don't care if i'm alone on that.(although i have a feeling i am not). like i said. he don't have to do the shows. he chose to do them. he ain't poor. u say u were in court. were u in court with him?(as in, behind the scenes, in the darkest places, seeing the things only Michael, himself would know?)

see ya on the other side. lol. and we'll see if i have to eat crow.
but i won't have to.

oh..and by the way, he's giving the money to his kids' trust. he doesn't need the money.

i don't agree with arxter on a lot of things. but one thing i do agree with him on is, too many people think they know MJ's business. but they don't. they just don't. but common sense says that if everything u said is true, MJ couldn't afford to go without performing for twelve years like he did. it just defies financial physics.

and u can't argue with longevity.

if everything u say is true, we wouldn't be here discussing this upcoming residency. MJ would already be on the street.

i've heard this negative assessment of MJ(like what ur saying) on repeat, ever since i've been on MJNO. he just shouldn't be in business, if people talkin like u, were right. but he is. and it doesn't help that u echo the media's words. i simply don't agree with one word of ur negative financial assessment of MJ. at all. he's got more than giraffe money.

so...i'm leavin this. i can't continue goin back and forth with a mod, anyway. but that doesn't mean my confidence in MJ is unwarranted.

i just believe that u r painting his longevity to be a big liar.

longevity don't lie.
 
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u can't even agree wit those financiers ur on board with. they say MJ's a billion dollar business. and u say he don't have giraffe money anymore.




no...i don't know he's in debt. cus he's not.





see ya on the other side. lol. and we'll see if i have to eat crow.
but i won't have to.



but common sense says that if everything u said is true, MJ couldn't afford to go without performing for twelve years like he did. it just defies financial physics.




i simply don't agree with one word of ur negative financial assessment of MJ. at all. he's got more than giraffe money.

. i can't continue goin back and forth with a mod, anyway.
they said he has the POTENTIAL to be a billion dollar business...not that he IS on. he has that earning potential if he actually worked and hit the grind, he can earn half a billion a yr if he really truly wanted to. the man hasn't worked in ages.

they're showing the world that mj is a valueable commodity and:agree: we got him and u lost out. they're bragging.

i KNOW he's in debt b/c i was in court when they went through his financials...the man's in debt. what's so hard about that?

i would never rub something in a fan's face and then tell them to eat crow. it's not my style.

common sense says if your in debt and u haven't worked, u re-finance what u have. aka the ranch and the catalogue's and that's just exactly what he's been doing the past 12 yrs. remember, the debt used to be around $250M now they're saying it's $400M. one thing is for sure, when u don't have liquid assets, u can refinance what u do have to garner liquid assets.

many people do this. take a second on their homes, get an auto title loan, they usewhat they have to get money off of it.

i would hope you're not shying away from a debate b/c im a moderator. my 'titile' should have no influence over people so long as they're minding the rules, not being disrespectful, and actually posting for a valid reason.

u can believe what u want. the evidence supports the other theory.

they are blatantly threatenning mj...sure things sound good on paper when two or more parties agree on it. it's a lot different when the actions are truly happening. it's understandable that he could seem a bit apprehensive w/ these shows and what's on his plate.

it's easy to take the pleasant route, thinking the debt is a lie, thinking his comeback is a lie, thinking everyone is negative....i thought the same till i heard it in court from his own attorney....they said 'well if the man has assets valued higher than his debt, then do u think the person is still in dire straits?"

meaning, so long as mj had the ranch and th e catalogues, he could easily wipe himself out of debt....there's a reason he hasn't gone that route. he wants to keep the ranch (at least right now) and he wants to keep the catalogues. so working to pay it off is the only logical option.

u say he's giving the money to his kids' trust...can u be sure of that or are you just assuming? or could his comments via randy phillips mean that him working on this and paying his debt means that the money he earns elsewhere can actually go to bills and this can go to his kids?

we don't know but one thing is for sure, you cannot walk away from a concert residency this size and think no one will have to pay anything. sorry but a contract is a contract and they're not doing this in good faith. he said it his damn self, he's in it to make money.

it's simple....michael jackson is a money maker. he just needs to get up and actually do something to make it.

l'chaim:cheers:
 
no...i don't know he's in debt. cus he's not.
the problem is when u start saying things like that it makes u lose credibility on anything else you say.


the debt used to be around $250M now they're saying it's $400M.
which the tabs have been saying for years yet goes against documents that ppl like aveeno posted over the years shpwing when large chunks had been paid off and that it was down to around 100 mill. the fact is according ot the media mj will have the debt until he day he dies and then it will have trippled from the original reports.its apart of the image of him being broke. u have to keep ramming it down ppl throats.doesnt matter if he makes 500 mill in the next coupld of years he will still be in debt.
 
they said he has the POTENTIAL to be a billion dollar business...not that he IS on. he has that earning potential if he actually worked and hit the grind, he can earn half a billion a yr if he really truly wanted to. the man hasn't worked in ages.

they're showing the world that mj is a valueable commodity and:agree: we got him and u lost out. they're bragging.

i KNOW he's in debt b/c i was in court when they went through his financials...the man's in debt. what's so hard about that?

i would never rub something in a fan's face and then tell them to eat crow. it's not my style.

common sense says if your in debt and u haven't worked, u re-finance what u have. aka the ranch and the catalogue's and that's just exactly what he's been doing the past 12 yrs. remember, the debt used to be around $250M now they're saying it's $400M. one thing is for sure, when u don't have liquid assets, u can refinance what u do have to garner liquid assets.

many people do this. take a second on their homes, get an auto title loan, they usewhat they have to get money off of it.

i would hope you're not shying away from a debate b/c im a moderator. my 'titile' should have no influence over people so long as they're minding the rules, not being disrespectful, and actually posting for a valid reason.

u can believe what u want. the evidence supports the other theory.

they are blatantly threatenning mj...sure things sound good on paper when two or more parties agree on it. it's a lot different when the actions are truly happening. it's understandable that he could seem a bit apprehensive w/ these shows and what's on his plate.

it's easy to take the pleasant route, thinking the debt is a lie, thinking his comeback is a lie, thinking everyone is negative....i thought the same till i heard it in court from his own attorney....they said 'well if the man has assets valued higher than his debt, then do u think the person is still in dire straits?"

meaning, so long as mj had the ranch and th e catalogues, he could easily wipe himself out of debt....there's a reason he hasn't gone that route. he wants to keep the ranch (at least right now) and he wants to keep the catalogues. so working to pay it off is the only logical option.

u say he's giving the money to his kids' trust...can u be sure of that or are you just assuming? or could his comments via randy phillips mean that him working on this and paying his debt means that the money he earns elsewhere can actually go to bills and this can go to his kids?

we don't know but one thing is for sure, you cannot walk away from a concert residency this size and think no one will have to pay anything. sorry but a contract is a contract and they're not doing this in good faith. he said it his damn self, he's in it to make money.

it's simple....michael jackson is a money maker. he just needs to get up and actually do something to make it.

l'chaim:cheers:

that quote u took from MJ's attorney is not a determination of him being in debt. he just asked a question. if anything, it suggests he's not in debt.

no. u haven't convinced me of anything. u called ur assessment a theory. a theory can be proven false.

i maintain he doesn't have to do anything. he wants to do this residency. it's his choice.

and neither u nor i can prove that MJ didn't say he's doing this for his kids, neither. u nor i cannot prove that he didn't say he doesn't need the money.

it will always be hard to believe u cus ur just focusing on this one entertainer like this. like the media does. nobody does this with any other entertainer.

yet he's the only one resting on his laurels, and doing things cus he wants to. not cus he has to.

u can't have potential if u don't have the goods. and they also said he has untapped sources that no one knows about.

but, there's no proof that they really know him either.

the one thing i do agree with u about is, u r willing to assume things. like we all do. that's what u said in the support forum thread.

and, one more thing...they said he's an undervalued asset. yet they go on to undervalue him, anyway. that's an oxymoron.

they have nothing to brag about. i and many others already know that MJ is wealthy beyond belief. Sony already knows that. Martin Bandier already knows that, and raves about his success.

those financiers are not discovering the wheel.

and theeeee most important thang. MJ said, in PHM, after lots of prodding from Martin Bashir, that he's wayyy up there..north of a billion.

with this, and everything else, Michael. i don't believe it unless he says it himself. and he said it. i believe it. people have fun speaking for Michael, all the time.

other artists have been willing to admit if they were in debt, or bankrupt, or somn. MJ would too, if it were true.

but then again, if i decided to believe everything everybody else said about you, so so, and decided not to believe what YOU say about you, so so def.....

you see my point?
 
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that quote u took from MJ's attorney is not a determination of him being in debt. he just asked a question.
theres been enough paperword/documents posted over the years showing whats gone on. why the deniel its not bad its called business.

i maintain he doesn't have to do anything. he wants to do this residency. it's his choice.
interms of money yes i agree. the money from sony/atv is paying off the laon well enough.the agreement should be done in the next 2-3 years unless anything changes. but i don wonder interms of the pressure put on mj to do this and how it has changed into the monster it has. i dont like the whole cash cow image iam getting
 
theres been enough paperword/documents posted over the years showing whats gone on. why the deniel its not bad its called business.


interms of money yes i agree. the money from sony/atv is paying off the laon well enough.the agreement should be done in the next 2-3 years unless anything changes. but i don wonder interms of the pressure put on mj to do this and how it has changed into the monster it has. i dont like the whole cash cow image iam getting

why the denial? cus MJ hasn't said it himself. i haven't seen all the paperwork. people are gunna say what they wanna.

i can sleep at night believing about MJ only what MJ says about MJ. and i'm beginning to understand why MJ don't like to speak much about it. people love to speculate. and him sayin somn aint gunna stop em. and he's right. it's a tacky subject to talk about.

if people have a problem with me not ever believing anything they say about MJ, that MJ hasn't said, himself. that's cool. it can't be too different from how MJ feels about what people say about him that he hasn't said, himself.

and if people don't have a problem with me never believing what they say about MJ, that MJ hasn't said himself..that's cool, too.

it never fails to amuse me, tho, how people (outside of MJ) go crazy at people who don't believe what they say about themselves.
 
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us MJ hasn't said it himself.
why would he? u expect him to put out a press release. if u go by that logic u believe every tabloid rubbish aswell cause he never says anything one way or the other.thats really illogical vince. i guess u think he doesnt look at porn or drink and hes still a veggie.

no ones going crazy its just illogical to have such a belief based on such an argument. that cause mj didnt announce it it most not be true. if u actually had legitimate evidence where it could be debated that some how its al lfake then fine we could debate but u dont even have that. itsjust takes away credibility from other things u say which is a shame when u have such deniel at the most obvious thing
 
why would he? u expect him to put out a press release. if u go by that logic u believe every tabloid rubbish aswell cause he never says anything one way or the other.thats really illogical vince. i guess u think he doesnt look at porn or drink and hes still a veggie.

no ones going crazy its just illogical to have such a belief based on such an argument. that cause mj didnt announce it it most not be true. if u actually had legitimate evidence where it could be debated that some how its al lfake then fine we could debate but u dont even have that. itsjust takes away credibility from other things u say which is a shame when u have such deniel at the most obvious thing

i'm not looking for ur approval. and u know, there are a lot of people out there, who agree with me.

and..it amazes me, how MJ handles all this hearsay. and like i said in my above post. he did make an annoncement, one way or the other. in PHM. and it refutes everything ur saying and goes in the opposite direction.
 
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