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The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Joyce said:
Michael Jackson was a worldwide known humanitarian and entertainer. His death should be referred to as "The Assination of Michael Jackson"!! I'd like to see someone write an article with this true title.

In no way am I foolish enough to think that MJ was killed accidentally. Someone or some organization or some group wanted him dead....since at least 1993 or before. Why was Tom Sneddon not punished for discrimination when he put up that website on MJ regarding children? That website made MJ a walking Target for accusations, yet Sneddon didn't put up a special website for anyone else....just MJ. There have been too many injustices to one man to ever convince me that there were those out to get MJ, tear his life apart, humiliate him, destroy him emotionaly and financially and then kill him.

Any Criminal Lawyers out there?? Please get justice for MJ. Raise a ruckus. The squeaky wheel gets oiled.

MJs Assasinators should be held accountable and punished accordingly....all of them.
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You would do well in the Investigative Unit. There is absolutely no proof of any of that whatsoever and it is purely speculation. To make these kinds of statements or even a case you need names and proof of some sort.

Do you want Justice or angry fan revenge?
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

it definiitely was an assassination.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

well, he had schaffel, weizner and konitzer that were telling him everyone was conspiring against him and they were the saviors .
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

when it was the opposite
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

CherubimII said:
Michael Jackson, himself, said there were conspirators working to destroy him.
Do you remember the 60 minutes interview?
Click on the link below and watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwY4ll1Kfc
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Thanks for posting but in the video the conspirators were clearly referring to the reason his album did not go #1 in the United States and that was the SONY incident which had nothing to do with murder but more to do with them pulling out advertising after he dropped them. This was also later resolved, was it not?
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

yeah, they hired investigators and lawyers to collect dirt on everyone around mj , persuaded him to go publicly against Sony , encouraged him to launch accusations and statements against people in the industry that left him hated by many powerful people and isolated .

after I read an article in which Schaffel accused Mottola and sony of forcing mj to remove him from his projects and that secretly mj kept him beside him and was frustrated with green because of her attempts to get schaffel out of his camp , after i knew sony had indeed the option to buy half of his share , after i knew sony secured his loan and guaranteed him a great refinancing deal , i DOUBT they ever worked against him or wanted to destroy him , mj's life went hell between 2000 and 2003 because of Konitzer, weisner and schaffel .
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

This is might be the wrong place to put this but, I read somewhere earlier, probably in a thread somewhere around here but for the life of me i cant remember which one, that murray has said through his lawyers at somepoint, that the timeline given in the addafit( right word? idk) is wrong...is that true?
It has also come to my attention that apparently murray was the first person to mention propofol to the police, cause before i had thought it was that nurse woman. And that kinda throws out my theory with murray trying to cover stuff up.
Idk where im going with this but it looks to me like maybe we know even less then we think we do with regards to murray..idk im rambling.

Also, the title of the article..i live in england so theres not much reporting on mj's death in the news really, except for after he died. Is it like an out-there theory in america that some people think mj was murdered? or is it mostly an internet thing or people thinking its a sorta conspiracy theory cooked up by fans?
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

his album did not go #1 in the United States
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it did. just a side note. mjs issues where with mottola not sony as a whole. mottolla was sacked within 6 months of the who sony wars as it was called then. the bosses in japan who were v close to mj where supposedly not happy at all and mottola went
 
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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

his is might be the wrong place to put this but, I read somewhere earlier, probably in a thread somewhere around here but for the life of me i cant remember which one, that murray has said through his lawyers at somepoint, that the timeline given in the addafit( right word? idk) is wrong...is that true?
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murray changed his story. he first said he gave mj diprivan around 10.30 am. went to the toliet around 10.50 came back and found him in trouble. when the police got hold of his phone records and saw he was on the phone from 11-12 appox murray changed his story and said he found mj at 12. the problem from murray imo is this. at first i thought yeah what if the police got it wrong. but look at what murray says.he doesnt just say i found him at 11 in trouble. ok if he had just said that i could understand him getting the time wrong. but he goes through the entire process. i gave him dip at 10.30 i went to the toliet arond 10.50.then found him at 11. how do u get the times wrong when u are telling the police of the actual process and timings of other things u did.and even more so the timechanges just when the police get hold of your phone records.

but then i still dont understand why he gave the 11am timeline. cause then the next question is. u found him at 11 but didint ring 911 till after 12. none of it makes sense
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

funkyfish said:
This is might be the wrong place to put this but, I read somewhere earlier, probably in a thread somewhere around here but for the life of me i cant remember which one, that murray has said through his lawyers at somepoint, that the timeline given in the addafit( right word? idk) is wrong...is that true?
It has also come to my attention that apparently murray was the first person to mention propofol to the police, cause before i had thought it was that nurse woman. And that kinda throws out my theory with murray trying to cover stuff up.
Idk where im going with this but it looks to me like maybe we know even less then we think we do with regards to murray..idk im rambling.

Also, the title of the article..i live in england so theres not much reporting on mj's death in the news really, except for after he died. Is it like an out-there theory in america that some people think mj was murdered? or is it mostly an internet thing or people thinking its a sorta conspiracy theory cooked up by fans?
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Murray changed his story more than once, at first he stated he only gave Michael diprovan, that diprovan turned into 25 mg. of propofol (not sure if that dosage is correct). When it drew near to the release of the Autopsy and Toxicology reports, thats when he confessed to all the other stuff he gave Michael that night, to try to "ween" him off of propofol.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

dip and pro are the same
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Why would anyone have wanted him dead? I don't know...
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

elusive moonwalker said:
when the police got hold of his phone records and saw he was on the phone from 11-12 appox murray changed his story and said he found mj at 12.
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Ah i thought these timelines came from the girlfreind at the grand jury or whatever, i had no idea murray came out and agreed with it/or changed his story to match it.

elusive moonwalker said:
the problem from murray imo is this. at first i thought yeah what if the police got it wrong. but look at what murray says.he doesnt just say i found him at 11 in trouble. ok if he had just said that i could understand him getting the time wrong. but he goes through the entire process. i gave him dip at 10.30 i went to the toliet arond 10.50.then found him at 11. how do u get the times wrong when u are telling the police of the actual process and timings of other things u did.and even more so the timechanges just when the police get hold of your phone records.

but then i still dont understand why he gave the 11am timeline. cause then the next question is. u found him at 11 but didint ring 911 till after 12. none of it makes sense
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Yeah changing his story to finding mj at 12 was stupid.I initially thought that his gf had messed up.Unless i guess it's actually what happend but that means..logically speaking if he didnt change the rest of his story, that he buggered off at 10.50 and didnt come back till 12. The phone calls would mean that he spent most of this time talking to people on the phone....and theres no reason he couldnt have done that in the room with mj, its not like he's gonna overhear anything if he's properly sedated.

And if he thought he was leaving mj asleep for an hour either he'd have had to give a large dose of propofol right? or left him on a drip? Both of which he should have known would kill him? unless he gave him a small dose cause he thought he was gonna be back quicker that he was....? Does not compute. And Im straying into the realm of conspiracy so i'll stop for now. Hope the police are ontop of this insanity.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

the search warrant mentioned "11 o'clock" two times:


JACKSON remained awake and at approximately 1040 hours, MURRAY finally administered 25mgof PROPOFOL (DIPRIVAN), diluted with LIDOCAINE (XYLOCAINE), via IV drip to keep JACKSON sedated, after repeated demands/requests from JACKSON. JACKSON finally went to sleep and MURRAY stated that he remained monitoring him. After approximately 10 minutes, MURRAY stated he left JACKSON's side to go to the restroom and relieve himself. MURRAY stated he was out of the room for about 2 minutes maximum. Upon his return, MURRAY noticed that JACKSON was no longerbreathing.e
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Your affiant obtained MURRAY'S cellular telephone records for the early morning hours of June 25,2009. In his statement, MURRAY estimated the time that he noticed JACKSON was not breathing to beat approximately 1100 hours. MURRAY'S cellular telephone records show MURRAY on the telephone,with three separate callers for approximately 47 minutes starting at 1118 hours, until 1205 hours.MURRAY did not mention this to the interviewing detectives
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Chernoff's reply :

"Much of what was in the search warrant affidavit is factual," attorney Edward Chernoff said in the statement. "However, unfortunately, much is police theory. Most egregiously, the timeline reported by law enforcement was not obtained through interviews with Dr. Murray, as was implied by the affidavit. Dr. Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11:00 a.m. not breathing. He also never said that he waited a mere 10 minutes before leaving to make several phone calls. In fact, Dr. Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson's room to make phone calls at all.
We will not comment on the 'anonymous' law enforcement source that claims that Michael Jackson's death will be ruled a homicide,Most of the reports by anonymous sources have been proven wrong. We will be happy to address the coroner's report when it is officially released."



First of all no one said in the document Murray admitted he left mj to do phone calls , they quoted him as saying "AFTER TEN MINUTES I left to relieve myself" if indeed he said ten minutes then he had to explain it .


another very important thing , 25 mg of propofol was not enough to sedate someone like mj , I posted an article before , 130 mg of propofol are needed to sedate someone for 7 minutes , i'm talkin SEDATION here . ok let's go with what he said and assume he gave mj 25 mg only that night through an iv drip ,

he started giving propofol at 10.40 am , and 25 mg was given within either ten minutes or an hour and ten minutes ?

logically ten minutes is more acceptable , yet medically would not have done much to begin with , it was not enough to sedate him in the first place . an hour and ten minutes for 25 mg of propofol is SO ABSURD, so ABSURD .
 
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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Huh all that 'murray stated' ' murray stated' and murray never actually stated anything?
Has murray said officialy then, what time he did find him?
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

also never said that he waited a mere 10 minutes before leaving to make several phone calls. In fact, Dr. Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson's room to make phone calls at all.
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police never said that? or is that an admission of guilt lol
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

funkyfish said:
Huh all that 'murray stated' ' murray stated' and murray never actually stated anything?
Has murray said officialy then, what time he did find him?
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well who do u beleive. the police interviewed murray and thats where all that info comes from. no his lawyer claims they never interviewed him or he never said any of that .yeah right. the police just made it up out of thin air. so what did murray say in the interviews
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Yeah changing his story to finding mj at 12 was stupid.I initially thought that his gf had messed up.Unless i guess it's actually what happend but that means..logically speaking if he didnt change the rest of his story, that he buggered off at 10.50 and didnt come back till 12. The phone calls would mean that he spent most of this time talking to people on the phone....and theres no reason he couldnt have done that in the room with mj, its not like he's gonna overhear anything if he's properly sedated.
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well look at like this. murray is chosing they lesser of two evils..whats worst finding mj at 11 am and spending the next hour making calls and not ringing 911 or finding him at 12 but spending the last hour not really checking him properly cause u are talking on the phone.the lesser is saying yeah i found him at 12 and was on the phone. not i found him at 11 and spent the next hour making calls and trying to cover things up
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

The time of Death is the most important piece of information
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

elusive moonwalker said:
well look at like this. murray is chosing they lesser of two evils..whats worst finding mj at 11 am and spending the next hour making calls and not ringing 911 or finding him at 12 but spending the last hour not really checking him properly cause u are talking on the phone.the lesser is saying yeah i found him at 12 and was on the phone. not i found him at 11 and spent the next hour making calls and trying to cover things up
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Yeah i guess, then i guess its down to murray not having mj hooked up to the right equipment that would have alerted him to the fact that mj's in trouble.

And TOD, god i hope they have a concrete tod worked out. If it turns out Mj had been gone at 11, n murray was wandering around the room for and hour and not noticed, shits not gonna fly..

Here's hoping jan. 18th gives us something.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

the search warrant and the bloody oximeter that's going to be a nightmare to murray once the time of death is become public :


MURRAY stated he was continuously at JACKSON's bedside and was monitoring him with a pulseoximeter. According to DR. MURRAY, the pulse oximeter was connected to JACKS ON's finger andmeasured his pulse and oxygen statistics.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I was reading before something about the temp of the room and murray trying to cover stuff up. How much can increasing the temp of a room mess with tod?

And does an oximeter beep?
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

tbh i think the TOD is an issue. how close to an actual time can they get. i mean with a TOD can they get it to the hour or is it only within a few hours. cause unless mj was gone say 6am can the difference between a TOD of say 9am and 11am be worked out? or is it to close to each other. especailly with murray just giving a 1 hour difference. 1 hour is nothing really .imo if they had a strong TOD then thats your smoking gun
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

as for the time of death : the 1 hour gap between 11 and 12 is VERY impossible to determine , especially since according to the paramedics they were working on a dead body for another 43 minutes .

so if mj died at 11 , and murray claimed no he died after the paramedics arrived or at 12 , the coroner would be put in a very very uncomfortable position , and he will be challenged by many experts unfortunately .

he could have estimate the time of death , but would not have been able to be 100% about it and can't claim in court he is 100% sure .

the most useful single indicator of the time of death during the first 24 hours post mortem in determing the time of death is algor mortis (cooling) many experts consider this factor the only worthwhile corporal factor .

and it is important to note that the temprature of the body to estimate a proper time of death applies only to cool and temperate climates . in mj's case the opposite happened .

Murray kept the paramedics in the house for 43 minutes for a reason, and kept the temprature very high in the bedroom for a reason , and the coroner probably will face very tough questions from the defense experts regarding the time of death .

I know it will be a smoking gun , but i highly doubt the coroner was able to determine when mj died .
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

yeap which is my worry.i guess the medics testimony of what mj was like when they got there will be important.they maybe able to add info inreagrds to whether hed only been gone 15 mins as murray claimed there was still a pulse when he found him or for example he was gone for upto an hour when they got there. but otehrwise it turns into a circumstantial he said she said. and who di u believe like with his changing timeline. i know which story makes sense from looking at what we know. but...
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

ok but that if you believe mj indeed died at 11 O'clock , Murray's assistant which we later knew was infact his mistress went at 9 oclock LA time to remove boxes of " used needles" and that was the second time someone in murray's camp visited that storage since it was rented in April 1.

and even if the coroner said MJ was dead before 11 o'clock , there will be still experts to say he could not be 100% sure . It will be up to the jury whom to believe .
propofol amounts, and lorazepam will also help alot .
 
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