The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

[Thetruthbetold]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

he just can't walk away from a murder trust me Dr.M did a lot of wrong to people they even spoke out on the dateline special that took place a few weeks after Micheal's death

 

[sfboys]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

MSNBC is HIGHLY reliable. Not sure where you got the info that it isn't.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

highly reliable ? they were the people that hired Victor Gutierrez during the trial , they are that much reliable , although I have to say during the trial the guy who reported from court for Dan Abrams show was very good and 'balanced' , glad Dan got the boot though .lol

 

[Scary13]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

The sooner they can stick Murray with charges, the better chances of saving the lives of his other patients! This man shouldn't even be taking a person's temperature!

 

[Julia]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

DailyBeast isn't a tabloid, it's a blog and they have ties with Diane Dimond. I wouldn't take this information to heart.

Well if they have ties to this witch then I am not believing them.

Julia

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

The sooner they can stick Murray with charges, the better chances of saving the lives of his other patients! This man shouldn't even be taking a person's temperature!

Agreed! He doesn't know what the hell he's doing and shouldn't be allowed to treat ANYONE!

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I doubt the case will go to court. Most likely Murray will try to settle and avoid going to court at all cost.

Murray is in a no win situation. If he try to say Michael was an addict and was out of control, then he has to answer the questions:

"If he was an addict, why did you give him drugs?"

"Why did you give in to his demand for drugs after you gave other medicines?"

"Why did you leave the room?"

"Why didn't you call 911 right away?"

"Why didn't you perform CPR properly?"

"Why did you fail to provide the proper information to the MTs about what drugs where given and in the amount?"

It will only get worst if they confirm that Michael was already dead and Murray tried to cover the scene. So even if Michael was a hardcore drug addict, how is Murray going to explain the above. I say it again, "I was just following orders", does not work with doctors. You are the one with the medical degree that tells people you know what you are doing. If someone is abusing drugs in your care, it is your duty to either stopped further serves and get the person help or just leave and don't provide any further care.

Murray did neither. If he goes down this path, he will just be a glorified drug addict who cared more about money then the life and health of the person he is suppose care for. He would actually be worst than a drug dealer because he actually 'injected' the drugs into him. I referee to this many times and I will do it again:


On March 5, 1982, John Belushi was found dead in his room at Bungalow #3 of the Chateau Marmont on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, California. The cause of death was a speedball, a combined injection of cocaine and heroin. His death was investigated by forensic pathologist Dr. Ryan Norris among others, and while the findings were disputed, it was officially ruled a drug-related accident.

Two months later, Cathy Smith admitted in an interview with the National Enquirer that she had been with Belushi the night of his death and had given him the fatal speedball shot. After the appearance of the article "I Killed Belushi" in the Enquirer edition of June 29, 1982, the case was reopened. Smith was extradited from Toronto, arrested and charged with first-degree murder. A plea bargain arrangement reduced the charges to involuntary manslaughter, and she served 15 months in prison.


John Belush, rest his soul, was a hardcore drug addict and everyone knew it. It was also taking illegal drugs, but Cathy still got charge with murder, which downgraded to manslaughter, for injecting him with drugs. What makes Murray much different from Smith? He is worst since he is actually a doctor and Michael put his trust and safety in his hands.

So, Michael being a drug addict, which we was not, is a moot point. He did not act in the manner benefiting of a doctor, which is why his ass is in the fire.

You mean "befitting" a doctor, and I agree with you on that. He is toast either way. At least he will be if no one drops the ball.

Also Sound, there is too much evident that points to Michael not being an addict, which hangs Murray too. His healthy organs and the fact only the drugs Murray gave him were in his body. That is not common in a hardcore drug addict and it is not something that the state can just pass by. He also refuse to pay Murray's original asking price, which shows he was not desperate for drugs. He was willing to get a doctor to watch and monitor him instead of just buying the drugs himself and just get some bodyguard to watch him. He also only took the drug to sleep, which is not the pattern of one who abuse the drug he was taking. Sorry, I doubt the state would go down this road since it has alot of potholes.

I think it could go either way. There is also evidence of Michael being a drug addict, and most of that "evidence" comes from people like Klein saying that people would give Michael whatever drug he wanted, or even Janet talking to Robin Roberts and telling her that Michael was an addict. So really, it could go either way.

The DA is not even using the addict line because I clearly remember when they wanted to charge Murray for given drugs to an addict. That charge has never been mention against since July. I understand the need to by critical, but let give the LAPD the benefice of a doubt. Not everyone in law enforcement is like Sneddon or out to get Michael for the hell of it, so we need to give these people a chance. When the crap hit the fan and the act in a dishonorable way, then we can complain.

I couldn't agree more. Not everyone or every entity like the LAPD is out to get Michael. I am really hoping and praying for justice for Michael in this case.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

You mean "befitting" a doctor, and I agree with you on that. He is toast either way. At least he will be if no one drops the ball.

I think it could go either way. There is also evidence of Michael being a drug addict, and most of that "evidence" comes from people like Klein saying that people would give Michael whatever drug he wanted, or even Janet talking to Robin Roberts and telling her that Michael was an addict. So really, it could go either way.

I couldn't agree more. Not everyone or every entity like the LAPD is out to get Michael. I am really hoping and praying for justice for Michael in this case.

Klein being under investigation kind of makes it hard to take him at his word. And the fact that Klein gave that "interview" to Levin where he says he did not see Michael for five years makes me wonder how the hell would you know what he was doing? And the fact that he is such a clown does not help. As far has Janet goes put her on the stand and ask her when was this drug intervention? And when was the last time you actually saw your brother for more then a few hours?

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I think it could go either way. There is also evidence of Michael being a drug addict, and most of that "evidence" comes from people like Klein saying that people would give Michael whatever drug he wanted, or even Janet talking to Robin Roberts and telling her that Michael was an addict. So really, it could go either way.

Klien, if he is put on the stand, will have to answer to alot of things beside Michael being an addict. Also, anyone with money has easy access to drugs, even if they are not an addict so it would not point to such if it is brought up. Also, Michael suffered from Lupus and the aftereffects of burns he got in the 80s, so the medicine he did get may have been justified.

As of Janet, I like her but she does not know everything. I find it funny how people throw the word addict, but they don't say what exactly he was addicted to ever since he was found with no painkillers and no other sleep medication. Also, no one saw him actually take drugs, not even his family. Some just assume he did like our friend Uri and Deepak. When was the last time you ever heard of something like that. A hardcore drug addict does drugs at any given time, because they're addicted to it. Even if it is in their mother's bed.

I also find it funny how in today's media world where every star's business is top news that somehow Michael's drug addiction went pretty much unnoticed. We knew Whitney was on something for years, even if she didn't admit it until recently. In fact, Michael was often describe as the opposite. A health nut, putting it nicely. How is it that someone who has almost their entire life on camera or on tape somehow avoid showing their drug problem?

If Michael's suppose drug addiction is brought up, they will have to explain all these facts. Even if he had addiction is the past, he was pretty much clean when he died so at the very least he was in recovery. Especially with AEG's 100 hours worth of footage showing Michael was not wasted.

Murray obviously never research the drugs he gave him since the way Michael was taking them was not the pattern of an addict for that drug. Sound posted several times how people got 'high' on the drugs and it is nothing like what Michael was doing.

Like I said before, the autopsy shows he did not have a longterm drug problem or addiction. If he had, he organs would had been damage or at least not normal. That is not the case. He also only had drugs given to him by Murray. Drugs like painkillers or even sleeping medication stays in a person's systems for weeks and months. They didn't find anything. Medical examination speaks louder than any word of mouth.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I think it could go either way. There is also evidence of Michael being a drug addic

the issue is what happened in 2001 or 2007 is irrelvent to the case. its about how mj died and nothing more and from what we know the only thing that killed him was murray so i dont see how it will even be allowed. infact it damages murrays case even more the fact he was giving benzos ect to someone who had issues in the past yet claimed not to know about mjs medical history yet still gave him such things without checking up

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

the issue is what happened in 2001 or 2007 is irrelvent to the case. its about how mj died and nothing more and from what we know the only thing that killed him was murray so i dont see how it will even be allowed. infact it damages murrays case even more the fact he was giving benzos ect to someone who had issues in the past yet claimed not to know about mjs medical history yet still gave him such things without checking up

Thank you. That is the point I have been trying to make.

It is even worst because the drugs he chose to 'wean' him off with were just as bad if not worst then what he was given him. Not to mention he had medical files of Michael dating back to 2006, so he can't exactly say, "I didn't know his medical history", when you have his files in your cabinet. Not to mention again that he gave into the demands of a suppose addict after he doped him up with those other drugs.

So, he is either a glorified drug dealer who chose money over the safety of his patient or he was a doctor who royally screwed up and tried to hide his crime instead of trying to save his patient. Let him pick the rope.

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Klein being under investigation kind of makes it hard to take him at his word. And the fact that Klein gave that "interview" to Levin where he says he did not see Michael for five years makes me wonder how the hell would you know what he was doing? And the fact that he is such a clown does not help. As far has Janet goes put her on the stand and ask her when was this drug intervention? And when was the last time you actually saw your brother for more then a few hours?

Good question, and many good points.

the issue is what happened in 2001 or 2007 is irrelvent to the case.

HUH? I don't know what you're talking about but I didn't say it did. :scratch:

its about how mj died and nothing more and from what we know the only thing that killed him was murray so i dont see how it will even be allowed.

I agree, and I hope you're right, (because I don't like to see Michael painted as a drug addict,) but I do think it *could* still be a possibility.

infact it damages murrays case even more the fact he was giving benzos ect to someone who had issues in the past yet claimed not to know about mjs medical history yet still gave him such things without checking up

I totally agree, which is one reason I think it's plausible that the DA could bring the "drug addict" angle into it.

Ramona, you make so many good points which I agree with, but I've already said I think it could remain a possibility and I will continue to think that. No need to keep repeating why you don't think that would be the case, since I already understand all your good points.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

HUH? I don't know what you're talking about but I didn't say it did.

u mentioned evidence of mj being a druggie being used in a trial that was my reply to it

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

sorry u have lost me . u are talking about the DA using evidence of mjs drugs. why would he do that. only murray would use it as part of his defence. only a D.A as stupid as sneddon would want to mention it as it muddies the waters and has nothing to do with the main case against murray. if murray used mj as being a druggie as a defence then the D.A could come back at him in the rebuttal with u knew his history yet still gave it. but i dont see how murray could bring this up anyway as he can only defend against actual charges kinda like with the testimony

 

[ginvid]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I spoke to friend who is a lawyer and she said it really is going to depend on how the prosecution puts forth their case. The jury will have very strict perimiters on which to determine guilt and the pro will have to pick the right sticking points.

(Sorry to bring it up ,but she used it as an ex.) With OJ, the prosecution built their case around the glove they thought belonged to OJ. SO when he tried on the glove and it didn't fit, along with the angle the Def was using that it wasn't his and was planted, because the prosecution made that such a point it destroyed their case. She said the jury have to be fact finders. So even if tyhose on the jury may have personally felt he did it, because of how the case was presented they had to say, was he guilty or not, and it would be , no.

The Kathy woman may have been charged with murder, but she was an ordinary citizen giving illegal drugs. Murray is a doctor give a drug that is not illegal adn though unheard of, gave it in a way that was not illegal. The laws that govern doctors -patients are different than those that govern ordinary citizens. She said there is a law that a patient can refuse medical care normally given in a hospital if they would like.(She couldn't remember the particular law) Surely MJ would not want to have Propofol in a hospital. Murray would have to just say that he warned MJ of the risk and MJ approved this method. Of course, there are no witnesses that this actually took place. So it becomes he say she say and whomever comes across as more credible will be triumphant.

She says the real problem Murray will have is not necessarily giving the drug adn giving it in a home setting, but not taking all necessary precautions to secure life. That will be difficult for him to explain.

Also interms of trying to say that Murray was helping MJ out, if they go with a lesser charge, intent does not come in to play. So if the defense tries to bring out that Murray wanted to help MJ or that MJ asked for it, there will be objections all over the place because they will say that is not what they are arguing so they cannot bring it up and it will cut down on how much sympathy Murray will be able to play to the Jury.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

but not taking all necessary precautions to secure life. That will be difficult for him to explain.

which murder 2 for gross disregard for human life comes under. u also have to add on all the xtras. him lieing to the police and doctors changing the timelines. the police may have thought it was just an accident but with murray lieing like he did. and covering it up hes pushed himself towards something more suspicious.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

anyone with a medical background tell me how closley can they work out a TOD. read that livor mortis (livity sp) can set in anywhere between 20-mins and 3 hrs. so is it the same for a TOD interms of can u work it out to the hour or just say it happened within a few hours timezone? how accurate can they be?

 

[jayjackson]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

KSJDHIOWIKDJMCX. :mellow:

all this makes me wanna shout!
throw my hands up and shout!
whats this madness all about?!
all this makes me wanna shout!

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I spoke to friend who is a lawyer and she said it really is going to depend on how the prosecution puts forth their case. The jury will have very strict perimiters on which to determine guilt and the pro will have to pick the right sticking points.

(Sorry to bring it up ,but she used it as an ex.) With OJ, the prosecution built their case around the glove they thought belonged to OJ. SO when he tried on the glove and it didn't fit, along with the angle the Def was using that it wasn't his and was planted, because the prosecution made that such a point it destroyed their case. She said the jury have to be fact finders. So even if tyhose on the jury may have personally felt he did it, because of how the case was presented they had to say, was he guilty or not, and it would be , no.

The Kathy woman may have been charged with murder, but she was an ordinary citizen giving illegal drugs. Murray is a doctor give a drug that is not illegal adn though unheard of, gave it in a way that was not illegal. The laws that govern doctors -patients are different than those that govern ordinary citizens. She said there is a law that a patient can refuse medical care normally given in a hospital if they would like.(She couldn't remember the particular law) Surely MJ would not want to have Propofol in a hospital. Murray would have to just say that he warned MJ of the risk and MJ approved this method. Of course, there are no witnesses that this actually took place. So it becomes he say she say and whomever comes across as more credible will be triumphant.

She says the real problem Murray will have is not necessarily giving the drug adn giving it in a home setting, but not taking all necessary precautions to secure life. That will be difficult for him to explain.

Also interms of trying to say that Murray was helping MJ out, if they go with a lesser charge, intent does not come in to play. So if the defense tries to bring out that Murray wanted to help MJ or that MJ asked for it, there will be objections all over the place because they will say that is not what they are arguing so they cannot bring it up and it will cut down on how much sympathy Murray will be able to play to the Jury.

When I put John Belushi's case it because he died because someone injected him with drugs and he was an addict. It does not matter if the drugs were legal or not. If she pumped him full of legal painkillers and he died, she still would had faced charges because the drugs killed him. Legal, drug addict, it does not matter.

Murray is in a even worst case because he went school and train to be able to decide what is right by his patient. He did not do that, which makes him worst than Smith.

 

[CherubimII]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Dr. Conrad Murray told Michael Jackson he was a "Holistic Doctor",
and he convinced Michael Jackson he was the best doctor to
treat his health concerns; instead, Conrad Murray prescribed and
used dangerous drugs and did not protect the health of his patient at all.

 

[meena76]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Thanks Trish

Cause, I was about to go ballistic over here.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I spoke to friend who is a lawyer and she said it really is going to depend on how the prosecution puts forth their case. The jury will have very strict perimiters on which to determine guilt and the pro will have to pick the right sticking points.

(Sorry to bring it up ,but she used it as an ex.) With OJ, the prosecution built their case around the glove they thought belonged to OJ. SO when he tried on the glove and it didn't fit, along with the angle the Def was using that it wasn't his and was planted, because the prosecution made that such a point it destroyed their case. She said the jury have to be fact finders. So even if tyhose on the jury may have personally felt he did it, because of how the case was presented they had to say, was he guilty or not, and it would be , no.

The Kathy woman may have been charged with murder, but she was an ordinary citizen giving illegal drugs. Murray is a doctor give a drug that is not illegal adn though unheard of, gave it in a way that was not illegal. The laws that govern doctors -patients are different than those that govern ordinary citizens. She said there is a law that a patient can refuse medical care normally given in a hospital if they would like.(She couldn't remember the particular law) Surely MJ would not want to have Propofol in a hospital. Murray would have to just say that he warned MJ of the risk and MJ approved this method. Of course, there are no witnesses that this actually took place. So it becomes he say she say and whomever comes across as more credible will be triumphant.

She says the real problem Murray will have is not necessarily giving the drug adn giving it in a home setting, but not taking all necessary precautions to secure life. That will be difficult for him to explain.

Also interms of trying to say that Murray was helping MJ out, if they go with a lesser charge, intent does not come in to play. So if the defense tries to bring out that Murray wanted to help MJ or that MJ asked for it, there will be objections all over the place because they will say that is not what they are arguing so they cannot bring it up and it will cut down on how much sympathy Murray will be able to play to the Jury.

you are missing something very important , what he did after he found mj in dire need of help, the time of death and the amounts that DON'T MAKE SENSE and certainly don't support an "accident" explanation .

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

you are missing something very important , what he did after he found mj in dire need of help, the time of death and the amounts that DON'T MAKE SENSE and certainly don't support an "accident" explanation .

I am not sure what you mean by 'he found MJ in dire need of help'.

To me this means you view what happened differently from me which is ok, but this is what is not clear to me. You have stated Michael was 'suffering' before and I don't understand what you mean. You don't suffer with Propofol at all. it is probably the kindest death you can have.

I feel with the facts that were presented it is not 'murder' but serious negligence. I'm not sure we know enough to make this determination. As you said, the times don't make sense. My question is this. WHAT IF Murray was telling the truth and there was a pulse? WHAT IF the times were stated incorrectly in the police report? WHAT IF?

I don't say this makes him not responsible, but it changes things ever so slightly IF that is what happened. "Intoxication" is a medical term simply for too much for that patient. It doesn't state any amount. I think the stated amount was 25 and some say it is not enough but is IS in many people. There is a concentration in fluid so who is to say that 25mg is too much or not enough or just the right amount.....or what he really gave. We do not know.

 

[ginvid]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

you are missing something very important , what he did after he found mj in dire need of help, the time of death and the amounts that DON'T MAKE SENSE and certainly don't support an "accident" explanation .

I am just giving a possible explanation from Murray based on what we know. Murray has said through his lawyer that the time line of events they gave were not right. What Murrays position is will have to come out later as he and his lawyers are being tight lipped as for now. Murray may have a completely different time line by the time he goes to trial. That's what good lawyers are for. it really is difficult to come up with something difinitive with what we know now.

 

[ginvid]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I feel with the facts that were presented it is not 'murder' but serious negligence. I'm not sure we know enough to make this determination. /QUOTE]

By law serious negligence can account for 2nd degree murder. 2nd degree murder is where ther is intent or where a persons actions were so grossly negligent that it is far above incompetence. However, as you mentioned, until we know more facts it is impossible to know just how negligent Murray was.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I am just giving a possible explanation from Murray based on what we know. Murray has said through his lawyer that the time line of events they gave were not right. What Murrays position is will have to come out later as he and his lawyers are being tight lipped as for now. Murray may have a completely different time line by the time he goes to trial. That's what good lawyers are for. it really is difficult to come up with something difinitive with what we know now.

This is why I hesitate to run screaming MURDERER down the streets. I feel that there are things even in the reports that we know as facts that are not accurate. The Propofol is a big one and while many think it is illegal to use at home; there are those who can argue that fact. This was a trained doctor, not a janitor.

As a human being I look at 'facts' that came before and he has no issues against his medical record that make him look like an idiot which makes me think we just don't know all the facts.

Sadly, none of this changes the outcome and we have lost a great man.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I feel with the facts that were presented it is not 'murder' but serious negligence. I'm not sure we know enough to make this determination. /QUOTE]

By law serious negligence can account for 2nd degree murder. 2nd degree murder is where ther is intent or where a persons actions were so grossly negligent that it is far above incompetence. However, as you mentioned, until we know more facts it is impossible to know just how negligent Murray was.

I am in agreement with negligence/2nd degree murder. I understand that and don't mean to come off as someone who thinks he should not be punished for this.

 

[ginvid]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

^^^Oh, I don't think that at all. I have actually read your posts before I answered and you very clearly stated he should be punished for what he did. :yes: I was just simply posting on the degree of the crime he did. I was agreeing with you while giving my own side note. As you said we don't have all of the information. It was just a quote on law in general. Thanks!

 

[CherubimII]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Dr. Conrad Murray has admitted to administering dangeruous drugs
to Michael Jackson, which killed Michael Jackson. By definition Dr. Conrad Murray committed homicide.
I believe Dr. Murray was paid by evil people to make sure Michael Jackson died.

To quote Dick Gregory:
"Doctors make the best assassins.

 

[Joyce]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Michael Jackson was a worldwide known humanitarian and entertainer. His death should be referred to as "The Assination of Michael Jackson"!! I'd like to see someone write an article with this true title.

In no way am I foolish enough to think that MJ was killed accidentally. Someone or some organization or some group wanted him dead....since at least 1993 or before. Why was Tom Sneddon not punished for discrimination when he put up that website on MJ regarding children? That website made MJ a walking Target for accusations, yet Sneddon didn't put up a special website for anyone else....just MJ. There have been too many injustices to one man to ever convince me that there were those out to get MJ, tear his life apart, humiliate him, destroy him emotionaly and financially and then kill him.

Any Criminal Lawyers out there?? Please get justice for MJ. Raise a ruckus. The squeaky wheel gets oiled.

MJs Assasinators should be held accountable and punished accordingly....all of them.