The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

[Silouette]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I say we exile him out of the U.S. at least.

lock him up first.

Lock his ass up where ever he's exiled to. :angry:

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

yeap murray has no choice but to do that.its his only defence.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I have also said that Murray will use everything (or rather his lawyers will) they can in order to make Murray look like the victim here. It is the perfect defense and its actually pretty sad what could be said if it ever goes to trial.

There is still so much we don't really know. We only know what was fed to us by the media and we really don't know much about Murray. Up until this happened he was a good doctor with nothing against his record.

I am not sticking up for Murray, but the facts don't add up correctly. The times are all wrong and there are other things that don't ring true. I don't know what really happened in that room that morning.

 

[twinklEE]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

You guys are talking about possible defense strategies as of now it seems to me as if he won't be prosecuted at all. He will get away and have his reality show followed by a book deal and movie career.

 

[ensleyave]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I will continue to have faith that good will prevail. I hope.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

He will avoid 'murder' but then they will go after manslaughter which is what they originally said because they haven't enough evidence to say he did this on purpose.

 

[PrincessMichaela]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I will continue to have faith that good will prevail. I hope.

I'm with ya'. :angel:

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I think it will be murder because MJ was dead long before the 911 call was made , the things he admitted to were more than enough for a manslaughter case but they are looking for something stronger because of the Time of death

 

[Asedora]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Murray shouldn’t give him propofol AT HOME! What about phone calls?
Why he didn’t call 911 immediately? Or those questions do not matter for LAPD anymore? How it can be a manslaughter after all????

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I have also said that Murray will use everything (or rather his lawyers will) they can in order to make Murray look like the victim here. It is the perfect defense and its actually pretty sad what could be said if it ever goes to trial.

There is still so much we don't really know. We only know what was fed to us by the media and we really don't know much about Murray. Up until this happened he was a good doctor with nothing against his record.

Excuse me? I thought Victoria posted at one point that he had killed another patient. Surely you can't of forgotten that?

I am not sticking up for Murray, but the facts don't add up correctly. The times are all wrong and there are other things that don't ring true. I don't know what really happened in that room that morning.

Yeah, the times don't add up because Murray LIED about when he "found" Michael. The guy is a lying murderer. I hope they fry his ass.

 

[ginvid]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

He will avoid 'murder' but then they will go after manslaughter which is what they originally said because they haven't enough evidence to say he did this on purpose.

They don't need to prove malice in order to make a murder defense.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I said this a long time ago and I will say this again. Murray will try to make himself a matyr figure. He is going to play on those who liked MJ and those who didn't. For those who did not like him, he will say that MJ was almost out of control and needed more help than he could give, but he is also going to flip it and say he could understand this because MJ was in so pain, he was miserable without sleep, etc. He is going to paint a pitiful picture and then he is going to act as if he was compelled to help MJ because at the end of the day, who wouldn't want to help their fellow man. He will ask, all of you, ask yourself, if a friend was suffering wouldn't you try to help. I can see the fake tears and sympathy he will conjure as he says this horrible, horrible mistake was something he couldn't fathom. He was victim of circumstance.

And people who dislike MJ will say yup, MJ was out of control. Tragic but out of control. And people who like MJ (And it will be just liking him. Hardcore fans will not be on the jury) will say yeah we have seen in the news how much MJ suffered (see them bringing in evidence of MJs medical problems to prove this) his friends and family said he had this and this. and Murray was such a friend to do this. And it was an accident. they will start to feel empathy for him.

Folks, this is sad, but I would not doubt it one bit. I was on my schools debate team and nothing works better than playing on people's emotions.

After everything we read and if indeed MJ was dead long before the 911 call, and if indeed the amounts of propofol in his body were lethal ( the search warrant) and if indeed they determined he was injected seconds before his death with huge amounts of lorazepam , and if indeed they determined propofol was given through the night and the amounts found in his urine tell a different story from what murray said , then it will be so hard for anyone to believe or even sympathy with Murray .

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I think it will be murder because MJ was dead long before the 911 call was made , the things he admitted to were more than enough for a manslaughter case but they are looking for something stronger because of the Time of death

I hope you are right!

Right now I'm sure they're being cautious for sure, and if someone watches "Law and Order" they'd see that time and again the DA's office goes for the lesser charge when it is a for-sure thing, while a greater charge might be a crap shoot.

And this has NOTHING to do with the media liking or not liking Michael, as some have stated. Such assertions are totally foolish. The media are not going to control the DA or the LAPD. Utter nonsense. *shakes head in disbelief*

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

after I read the FBI files I believe if they decide to go after Murray , it will be to boost their careers first and to further destroy MJ's image and reputation .

The LAPD and the LADA were the people that created Francia , they were the ones who planted the two infamous books in MJs bedroom , why I feel that way ? because it is very unlikely that MJ kept those two books in that particular drawer for three years and the key was with Francia , and the investigators asked her to come to neverland to open that particular drawer to find those particular two books , IT WAS TOO MUCH TO BELIEVE .
then you have their investigators all over the tvs during the trial , swearing they have very damaging evidence and the descriptions matched ...etc .they refused to investigate Evan ,They were to be blamed for what happened as much as sneddon .


Don't expect the DA to start his argument with a statement like " Mr.Jackson was a great humanitarian and great father ....etc" , it will be something like " this case is about a drug addict man that died abusing drugs and this doctor fueled his addictions "
They don't care about us

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Thats true. This is not a popularity contest for them in this case. They are looking at hard cold facts and piecing everything together. It may well be that Murray made a mistake or there may be pieces of this puzzle that we don't even know yet.

We don't know if the police have the security tapes of who went in and out of the house and what times and we don't know the rest of the autopsy or what everyone in the house said, or the ambulance drivers, etc. All put together it may point clearly to manslaughter.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Don't expect the DA to start his argument with a statement like " Mr.Jackson was a great humanitarian and great father ....etc" , it will be something like " this case is about a drug addict man that died abusing drugs and this doctor fueled his addictions "

I have been saying that all along which is why I hate to see when fans say he was controlled by drugs. Why give them any fuel for their fire?

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Thats true. This is not a popularity contest for them in this case. They are looking at hard cold facts and piecing everything together. It may well be that Murray made a mistake or there may be pieces of this puzzle that we don't even know yet.

We don't know if the police have the security tapes of who went in and out of the house and what times and we don't know the rest of the autopsy or what everyone in the house said, or the ambulance drivers, etc.

What does all that matter? MURRAY ADMITTED to giving him the lethal dose of propofol. The rest will only confuse matters.

All put together it may point clearly to manslaughter.

There is something called acting with a depraved heart. And it is when someone acts so reckless that it costs someone else their life, so they need to go for a murder conviction.

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

after I read the FBI files I believe if they decide to go after Murray , it will be to boost their careers first and to further destroy MJ's image and reputation .

The LAPD and the LADA were the people that created Francia , they were the ones who planted the two infamous books in MJs bedroom , why I feel that way ? because it is very unlikely that MJ kept those two books in that particular drawer for three years and the key was with Francia , and the investigators asked her to come to neverland to open that particular drawer to find those particular two books , IT WAS TOO MUCH TO BELIEVE

Sounds like it, but I thought the only time Neverland was searched was when Santa Barbara County did it. Did LA county do a separate search too?

then you have their investigators all over the tvs during the trial , swearing they have very damaging evidence and the descriptions matched ...etc .they refused to investigate Evan ,They were to be blamed for what happened as much as sneddon .

Yes, they did jump the gun and were anxious to "nail" Michael, but Michael is gone now, and that has left a lot of people more sympathetic to him than they were before.

I do believe they will go for the "drug addict" angle too, unfortunately.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

What does all that matter? MURRAY ADMITTED to giving him the lethal dose of propofol. The rest will only confuse matters.

There is something called acting with a depraved heart. And it is when someone acts so reckless that it costs someone else their life, so they need to go for a murder conviction.

Yes, he admitted to giving a low dose of Propofol.

I don't think Murray is going to come out of this looking as reckless as he has been looking here in the forum. He is also not going to appear to be non caring.

Someone posted that he is might use the 'helping' Michael because he needed sleep angle. All the more reason I hate to see Michael portrayed as this poor defenseless man who could not help himself. It just makes Murrays defense for him.

We here in the forum all cared about Michael, but the rest of the world and the tabloids....not so much.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I don't think Murray is going to come out of this looking as reckless as he has been looking here in the forum. He is also not going to appear to be non caring.

You are soooooooooooooooooooooo wrong , wait for the charges to drop and the autopsy report , some information will be EXPLOSIVE to say the least .

the time of death ALONE will leave people dazzling

Yes, he admitted to giving a low dose of Propofol.

I don't think Murray is going to come out of this looking as reckless as he has been looking here in the forum. He is also not going to appear to be non caring.

Someone posted that he is might use the 'helping' Michael because he needed sleep angle. All the more reason I hate to see Michael portrayed as this poor defenseless man who could not help himself. It just makes Murrays defense for him.

We here in the forum all cared about Michael, but the rest of the world and the tabloids....not so much.

through his urine they would have been able to know how much and for how long he was given propofol that night , no one believe he started giving propofol at 10:40 am , many even doubt mj was even alive at that time .

but there is something we can be sure about 25 mg were much lesser than the NORMAL dose , and would not have sedated him let alone killed him .

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Yes, he admitted to giving a low dose of Propofol.

And they've already determined that Michael died from a HIGH dose, so, that a-hole is flat out lying.

Do you seriously think Murray is ABOVE lying to cover his ass?

I don't think Murray is going to come out of this looking as reckless as he has been looking here in the forum. He is also not going to appear to be non caring.

I hope you are totally wrong about that.

Someone posted that he is might use the 'helping' Michael because he needed sleep angle. All the more reason I hate to see Michael portrayed as this poor defenseless man who could not help himself. It just makes Murrays defense for him.

I agree with you there. That "poor defenseless Michael" thing has always made me cringe, but Michael wasn't a so-called "professional" while Murray was. That is supposed to bear extra responsibility, not excuses such as "But, he WANTED me to!"

We here in the forum all cared about Michael, but the rest of the world and the tabloids....not so much.

We care MORE, but I don't think "the world" cares so little for him, as you might think.

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

You are soooooooooooooooooooooo wrong , wait for the charges to drop and the autopsy report , some information will be EXPLOSIVE to say the least .

the time of death ALONE will leave people dazzling

You sound like you have insider information. Ok, if that is the case....SPILL!!!

 

[ensleyave]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Yes, he admitted to giving a low dose of Propofol.

I don't think Murray is going to come out of this looking as reckless as he has been looking here in the forum. He is also not going to appear to be non caring.

Someone posted that he is might use the 'helping' Michael because he needed sleep angle. All the more reason I hate to see Michael portrayed as this poor defenseless man who could not help himself. It just makes Murrays defense for him.

We here in the forum all cared about Michael, but the rest of the world and the tabloids....not so much.

Not to attack you or anything. You tend to be a little biased in your assertions because you are in the medical field. No offense. Maybe you need to take a step back.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I doubt the case will go to court. Most likely Murray will try to settle and avoid going to court at all cost.

Murray is in a no win situation. If he try to say Michael was an addict and was out of control, then he has to answer the questions:

"If he was an addict, why did you give him drugs?"

"Why did you give in to his demand for drugs after you gave other medicines?"

"Why did you leave the room?"

"Why didn't you call 911 right away?"

"Why didn't you perform CPR properly?"

"Why did you fail to provide the proper information to the MTs about what drugs where given and in the amount?"

It will only get worst if they confirm that Michael was already dead and Murray tried to cover the scene. So even if Michael was a hardcore drug addict, how is Murray going to explain the above. I say it again, "I was just following orders", does not work with doctors. You are the one with the medical degree that tells people you know what you are doing. If someone is abusing drugs in your care, it is your duty to either stopped further serves and get the person help or just leave and don't provide any further care.

Murray did neither. If he goes down this path, he will just be a glorified drug addict who cared more about money then the life and health of the person he is suppose care for. He would actually be worst than a drug dealer because he actually 'injected' the drugs into him. I referee to this many times and I will do it again:


On March 5, 1982, John Belushi was found dead in his room at Bungalow #3 of the Chateau Marmont on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, California. The cause of death was a speedball, a combined injection of cocaine and heroin. His death was investigated by forensic pathologist Dr. Ryan Norris among others, and while the findings were disputed, it was officially ruled a drug-related accident.

Two months later, Cathy Smith admitted in an interview with the National Enquirer that she had been with Belushi the night of his death and had given him the fatal speedball shot. After the appearance of the article "I Killed Belushi" in the Enquirer edition of June 29, 1982, the case was reopened. Smith was extradited from Toronto, arrested and charged with first-degree murder. A plea bargain arrangement reduced the charges to involuntary manslaughter, and she served 15 months in prison.


John Belush, rest his soul, was a hardcore drug addict and everyone knew it. It was also taking illegal drugs, but Cathy still got charge with murder, which downgraded to manslaughter, for injecting him with drugs. What makes Murray much different from Smith? He is worst since he is actually a doctor and Michael put his trust and safety in his hands.

So, Michael being a drug addict, which we was not, is a moot point. He did not act in the manner benefiting of a doctor, which is why his ass is in the fire.

Also Sound, there is too much evident that points to Michael not being an addict, which hangs Murray too. His healthy organs and the fact only the drugs Murray gave him were in his body. That is not common in a hardcore drug addict and it is not something that the state can just pass by. He also refuse to pay Murray's original asking price, which shows he was not desperate for drugs. He was willing to get a doctor to watch and monitor him instead of just buying the drugs himself and just get some bodyguard to watch him. He also only took the drug to sleep, which is not the pattern of one who abuse the drug he was taking. Sorry, I doubt the state would go down this road since it has alot of potholes.

Also, most of the media are not even using the term drug addict or abuse anymore. I ready several articles and none of them do not say Michael died of a drug overdose. He says he died of the intoxication and that his death has been ruled a homicide. Some just said he died from drugs to treat insomnia. Really, the only people who are still carrying around the drug addict charge are some of his family members, fans, and media outlets that never liked Michael anyway.

The DA is not even using the addict line because I clearly remember when they wanted to charge Murray for given drugs to an addict. That charge has never been mention against since July. I understand the need to by critical, but let give the LAPD the benefice of a doubt. Not everyone in law enforcement is like Sneddon or out to get Michael for the hell of it, so we need to give these people a chance. When the crap hit the fan and the act in a dishonorable way, then we can complain.

 

[ensleyave]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I doubt the case will go to court. Most likely Murray will try to settle and avoid going to court at all cost.

Murray is in a no win situation. If he try to say Michael was an addict and was out of control, then he has to answer the questions:

"If he was an addict, why did you give him drugs?"

"Why did you give in to his demand for drugs after you gave other medicines?"

"Why did you leave the room?"

"Why didn't you call 911 right away?"

"Why didn't you perform CPR properly?"

"Why did you fail to provide the proper information to the MTs about what drugs where given and in the amount?"

It will only get worst if they confirm that Michael was already dead and Murray tried to cover the scene. So even if Michael was a hardcore drug addict, how is Murray going to explain the above. I say it again, "I was just following orders", does not work with doctors. You are the one with the medical degree that tells people you know what you are doing. If someone is abusing drugs in your care, it is your duty to either stopped further serves and get the person help or just leave and don't provide any further care.

Murray did neither. If he goes down this path, he will just be a glorified drug addict who cared more about money then the life and health of the person he is suppose care for. He would actually be worst than a drug dealer because he actually 'injected' the drugs into him. I referee to this many times and I will do it again:


On March 5, 1982, John Belushi was found dead in his room at Bungalow #3 of the Chateau Marmont on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, California. The cause of death was a speedball, a combined injection of cocaine and heroin. His death was investigated by forensic pathologist Dr. Ryan Norris among others, and while the findings were disputed, it was officially ruled a drug-related accident.

Two months later, Cathy Smith admitted in an interview with the National Enquirer that she had been with Belushi the night of his death and had given him the fatal speedball shot. After the appearance of the article "I Killed Belushi" in the Enquirer edition of June 29, 1982, the case was reopened. Smith was extradited from Toronto, arrested and charged with first-degree murder. A plea bargain arrangement reduced the charges to involuntary manslaughter, and she served 15 months in prison.


John Belush, rest his soul, was a hardcore drug addict and everyone knew it. It was also taking illegal drugs, but Cathy still got charge with murder, which downgraded to manslaughter, for injecting him with drugs. What makes Murray much different from Smith? He is worst since he is actually a doctor and Michael put his trust and safety in his hands.

So, Michael being a drug addict, which we was not, is a moot point. He did not act in the manner benefiting of a doctor, which is why his ass is in the fire.

Also Sound, there is too much evident that points to Michael not being an addict, which hangs Murray too. His healthy organs and the fact only the drugs Murray gave him were in his body. That is not common in a hardcore drug addict and it is not something that the state can just pass by. He also refuse to pay Murray's original asking price, which shows he was not desperate for drugs. He was willing to get a doctor to watch and monitor him instead of just buying the drugs himself and just get some bodyguard to watch him. He also only took the drug to sleep, which is not the pattern of one who abuse the drug he was taking. Sorry, I doubt the state would go down this road since it has alot of potholes.

Also, most of the media are not even using the term drug addict or abuse anymore. I ready several articles and none of them do not say Michael died of a drug overdose. He says he died of the intoxication and that his death has been ruled a homicide. Some just said he died from drugs to treat insomnia. Really, the only people who are still carrying around the drug addict charge are some of his family members, fans, and media outlets that never liked Michael anyway.

The DA is not even using the addict line because I clearly remember when they wanted to charge Murray for given drugs to an addict. That charge has never been mention against since July. I understand the need to by critical, but let give the LAPD the benefice of a doubt. Not everyone in law enforcement is like Sneddon or out to get Michael for the hell of it, so we need to give these people a chance. When the crap hit the fan and the act in a dishonorable way, then we can complain.

^^^
what you said

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

well it was indeed a manslaughter , they were idiots to charge her with a first degree murder in the first place

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

well it was indeed a manslaughter , they were idiots to charge her with a first degree murder in the first place

I think they used the first degree murder to scare her to plea. That is what the DA usually does. They get the highest charge they can reach for and use that to make a person confess to a lesser charge. Since they only had her word about given John drugs and his death was ruled an overdose, if she chose to fight in court, they may of lost for a lack of evident. Yes, the first degree murder charge was too much, but I think they got what they wanted in the end.

Actually, I think that is what Sneddon tried to do with Michael. He kept piling on charges on Michael's case, so Michael would panic and would want to plea. It has been done in may child-molestation cases when the DA make a bunch of charges of sex offense to the point that a person could get 30 years if charge. So, they would gladly settle for the charges that would give them 5 to 10, even if that means they would be guilty.

I honestly think they will do the same thing to Murray. I will charge him with second-degree murder and force him to confess for a lesser charge. Although I do not like Law & Order, it does give a good picture about how things are done. And like I said in my last post, Murray would want to avoid court since he would be utterly raped if he did.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Murray would want to avoid court since he would be utterly raped if he did.

you said it , they will destroy him in a court . That's guy death was not ruled homicide , he overdosed , they have forensic evidence that prove someone else did it , plus the time of death , the lies , the delays in calling 911, preventing the paramedics from taking him to hospital , calling his girlfriend....etc it is too much for just a manslaughter charge .plus we don't know the amounts of drugs found , where murray was, whether someone saw him outside that room , there is alot , and it won't get better for murray , it WILL NOT .

if every DA felt he had to 'scare' , no one would be tried and convicted . the DA offers a plea when he has no case , or a very weak one , not with such a high profile case .

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

you said it , they will destroy him in a court . That's guy death was not ruled homicide , he overdosed , they have forensic evidence that prove someone else did it , plus the time of death , the lies , the delays in calling 911, preventing the paramedics from taking him to hospital , calling his girlfriend....etc it is too much for just a manslaughter charge .plus we don't know the amounts of drugs found , where murray was, whether someone saw him outside that room , there is alot , and it won't get better for murray , it WILL NOT .

if every DA felt he had to 'scare' , no one would be tried and convicted . the DA offers a plea when he has no case , or a very weak one , not with such a high profile case .

It depends on the case, really. Just because it is high profile does not equal sure fire conviction or high jail time. We have been through this, so will wait and see. However, even if they did charge him with second degree murder, if Murray willingly confess, he would most likely get the lowest sentence, which is usually 2 to 5 years with probation or less with good behavior.

Instead of just going for a high murder charge, what they will most likely do is add more charges like corrupting a crime scene, withholding evident, etc.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

from the live chat on tmz

they don't buy it as far as the dosage which Murray claimed was only 25 mililiters. Levin says that Michael's heart was strangled and suffocated by propofol that's why the cops believe Murray gave him much more than 25 ml. And besides Levin said 25 ml wouldn't put anyone to sleep anyway because it's so small of an amount.

thanks elusive I think the answer will be in the amounts .

I think the police should have known how much propofol he was given .