Latest on MJJC

The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

Status
Not open for further replies.
ivy said:
Not common practice but tabloids do not follow any regular case either. This is a high profile case, everything is different.

Furthermore I believe that there is distinction between telling or learning and giving or getting information. I think nobody is giving or telling them information but they are able to get and learn the information.

If this information (time of the arraignment) is true it does not necessarily mean the authorities (police or DA) gave this information - probably there are a bunch of court clerks (or office assistants etc) someplace that works on arranging, scheduling such events and/or access to that information. The source of the information could easily be a regular employee in the legal system with the ability to access such information.

now on a side note about TMZ - Harvey Levin (the person who runs it) is actually a lawyer who has also covered the OJ Simpson case , has been doing court/legal shows for a long time. So yes he apparently has good connections in the legal (courts, DA's, police etc) circles (and check the stories that they do about other celebrities as well - most of them are about legal issues). They also have connections with the Jackson family - they have directly named Joe, Randy, Katherine's lawyers and Estate's lawyers as sources. Furthermore they told that they are dedicated to follow MJ news and they are keeping this promise - today they were outside the courtroom, murray's lawyer's office, his girlfriends house and who knows where else.
Click to expand...

You are so right on Ivy with everything you said above.
 
Say what you want about the handcuffs....but that 'sorry' picture of a physician paraded around in handcuffs looking dismal....his reputation ruined.....his life turned upside down.......

And wait...there is more.....over a (fill in the blank)

But more than that it was wrong to do to Michael. You all just don't realize what that moment of happiness to yourselves means. It would bite you in the butt later on.
 
Ramona122003 said:
I want Murray to have a fair trial so when the chips fall and the final judgment is past, I won't have to wonder if the jury was influence by outside forces. I want Murray to have no kind of sympathy when he faces what he has done. And I want to make sure that he cannot cry foul when it is over. That is true justice for me.
Click to expand...

I so agree with your reasoning here.
 
it annoys me when people who don't know much about this case say michael had a drug problem and is responsible for his own passing. don't they understand he only had in his body what that quack gave him to sleep. michael had insomnia and was made to feel comfortable with this stuff, he thought he was handling his problem. it's the doctors fault for agreeing to give him propofol to sleep which is crazy and uneffective and then not even having the proper equipment which is gross negligence. the doctor knew once he injected the crap he then became responsible.
how can you give someone tons of sedatives and then propofol, who could survive that?
he failed his patient by not finding safe and effective help for him because he just wanted that pay check. murray was being sneaky with the stuff beacuse he knew it was unethical, he disregarded the oath he took and should lose his license. then he refuses to sign the death certificate, that doesn't sound like someone who is remorseful, he sounds guilty and greedy.

with all that and probably more i don't understand how murray can say he did nothing that should have killed michael. michael would be alive then! the sad thing is the way murray treated michael id he had not passed on june 25 he would have on the 26, or the 27 and etc. this was a disaster in the making how could murray not see it coming. michael is lucky he lasted as long as he did in these conditions.

ps. the doctor who gave him propofol during the history tour should lose his license also

this is all very upsetting
 
Last edited:
Let's just drop this conversation about Murray in handcuffs.

If Murray is in handcuffs, he's in handcuffs. If he's not, he's not.

But hopefully, fans will be there tomorrow in front of court WITH THE TRUTH.
 
nena said:
it annoys me when people who don't know much about this case say michael had a drug problem and is responsible for his own passing. don't they understand he only had in his body what that quack gave him to sleep. michael had insomnia and was made to feel comfortable with this stuff, he thought he was handling his problem. it's the doctors fault for agreeing to give him propofol to sleep which is crazy and uneffective and then not even having the proper equipment which is gross negligence. the doctor knew once he injected the crap he then became responsible. he failed his patient by not finding safe and effective help for him because he just wanted that pay check. murray was being sneaky with the stuff beacuse he knew it was unethical, he disregared the oath he took and should lose his license. then he refuses to sign the death certificate, that doesn't sound like someone who is remorseful, he sounds guilty and greedy.

with all that and probably more i don't understand how murray can say he did nothing that should have killed michael. michael would be alive then!

sorry for my little rant, this is all very upsetting
Click to expand...

1..2...3 you are about to get attacked for that little rant but I feel you.
 
I don't even think Michael asked for propoful....that is my opinion. Clearly, Michael would know the dangers.

Liers.
 
nena said:
it annoys me when people who don't know much about this case say michael had a drug problem and is responsible for his own passing. don't they understand he only had in his body what that quack gave him to sleep. michael had insomnia and was made to feel comfortable with this stuff, he thought he was handling his problem. it's the doctors fault for agreeing to give him propofol to sleep which is crazy and uneffective and then not even having the proper equipment which is gross negligence. the doctor knew once he injected the crap he then became responsible.
how can you give someone tons of sedatives and then propofol, who could survive that?
he failed his patient by not finding safe and effective help for him because he just wanted that pay check. murray was being sneaky with the stuff beacuse he knew it was unethical, he disregarded the oath he took and should lose his license. then he refuses to sign the death certificate, that doesn't sound like someone who is remorseful, he sounds guilty and greedy.

with all that and probably more i don't understand how murray can say he did nothing that should have killed michael. michael would be alive then! the sad thing is the way murray treated michael id he had not passed on june 25 he would have on the 26, or the 27 and etc. this was a disaster in the making how could murray not see it coming.

this is all very upsetting
Click to expand...

Meh...i agree with you, in fact im pretty certain that if Murray had shown up with a mug of fucking horlicks or something, and it had got mj to sleep mj would have been fine with it. All this he was hooked, desperate ect for drugs is bullshit. He wanted to sleep, and he was dependant on the drugs to get him to sleep Because his doctors, apparently didnt try treating him with anything else.

And murray saying he gave mj nothing that should have killed him is retarded, seeing as what he gave him did infact kill him.
 
kasume said:
I don't even think Michael asked for propoful....that is my opinion. Clearly, Michael would know the dangers.

Liers.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you here...I dont think he asked for it either.....as we all know Michael was very knowledgeable about medicine....he would never take such a risk as this..he would never do this knowing it could hurt his children.
 
kasume said:
I don't even think Michael asked for propoful....that is my opinion. Clearly, Michael would know the dangers.

Liers.
Click to expand...
michael had taken propofol during the history tour so i think he felt comfortable with the stuff to ask for it again. why would so many medical professionals lie about michael talking about it unless this is a conspiracy.

blame the doctor who introduced propofol to michael in the 90's.
 
xthunderx2 said:
I have to agree with you here...I dont think he asked for it either.....as we all know Michael was very knowledgeable about medicine....he would never take such a risk as this..he would never do this knowing it could hurt his children.
Click to expand...

One MJ's so-called friends said the same thing you said. They couldn't believe he would take that because he loved his kids too much.
 
xthunderx2 said:
I have to agree with you here...I dont think he asked for it either.....as we all know Michael was very knowledgeable about medicine....he would never take such a risk as this..he would never do this knowing it could hurt his children.
Click to expand...
michael was knowledgabe about many things but he was not a doctor, it was not his obligations to know as much about drugs as medical professionals. he thought he was safe with a doctor monitoring him, of course he didn't intend on leaving his children.
 
Did I just read on cnn, that the coroner labels Michael's death an 'accident'.....?
 
nena said:
it annoys me when people who don't know much about this case say michael had a drug problem and is responsible for his own passing. don't they understand he only had in his body what that quack gave him to sleep. michael had insomnia and was made to feel comfortable with this stuff, he thought he was handling his problem. it's the doctors fault for agreeing to give him propofol to sleep which is crazy and uneffective and then not even having the proper equipment which is gross negligence. the doctor knew once he injected the crap he then became responsible.
how can you give someone tons of sedatives and then propofol, who could survive that?
he failed his patient by not finding safe and effective help for him because he just wanted that pay check. murray was being sneaky with the stuff beacuse he knew it was unethical, he disregarded the oath he took and should lose his license. then he refuses to sign the death certificate, that doesn't sound like someone who is remorseful, he sounds guilty and greedy.

with all that and probably more i don't understand how murray can say he did nothing that should have killed michael. michael would be alive then! the sad thing is the way murray treated michael id he had not passed on june 25 he would have on the 26, or the 27 and etc. this was a disaster in the making how could murray not see it coming. michael is lucky he lasted as long as he did in these conditions.

ps. the doctor who gave him propofol during the history tour should lose his license also

this is all very upsetting
Click to expand...

Ok..I am NOT going to attack. You are entitled to your opinion.

What people say who are uninformed is never reliable, so thats a given. People can say whatever they want about drug use but the tox screen proves differently.

Whether Murray was being sneaky or not... I do think it was private because all medical issues are private. In other words, its no ones business but the doctors and the patients. I call that protecting their clients rights to privacy but you call it sneaky.
 
nena said:
michael was knowledgabe about many things but he was not a doctor, it was not his obligations to know as much about drugs as medical professionals. he thought he was safe with a doctor monitoring him, of course he didn't intend on leaving his children.
Click to expand...

Exactly. He relied on the dr. to know better. check out your pm.
 
nena said:
michael was knowledgabe about many things but he was not a doctor, it was not his obligations to know as much about drugs as medical professionals. he thought he was safe with a doctor monitoring him, of course he didn't intend on leaving his children.
Click to expand...

your post has some truth to it..but...In my opinion...Michael himself KNEW the affects of this drug and I think that he KNEW the risks involved....All we have to go on is what Murray says...Michael is not here to say..."Murray gave it to me..I didn't ask for it"......I for one do not believe Murray...again this is my opinion.
 
xthunderx2 said:
I have to agree with you here...I dont think he asked for it either.....as we all know Michael was very knowledgeable about medicine....he would never take such a risk as this..he would never do this knowing it could hurt his children.
Click to expand...

Yet, it is on record from several people that he was indeed looking for someone to administer this particular drug. He found someone and now he is dead.
 
xthunderx2 said:
I have to agree with you here...I dont think he asked for it either.....as we all know Michael was very knowledgeable about medicine....he would never take such a risk as this..he would never do this knowing it could hurt his children.
Click to expand...

Propofol is a very safe drug if used right. At sedative levels, it does actually does provide you with restful sleep. The talking head of the media who kept saying that propofol does not give true sleep were only looking at when it was used for surgery. That is when you are completely knocked out, not just sedated. The problem, it has a zero margin of error.

Michael was knowledge, but he had doctor who told him it was safe as long someone was watching him, which is true. Murray was suppose to watch him, he failed to do so.

Honestly, how many of else actually go online and look at the medicines that our doctor recommends for us. We usually don't because a doctor is suppose to know what would help us, not hurt or kill us.
 
Ramona122003 said:
The tox was complete except they never gave the amount of each drug. All the drugs he was given was mention, even the drugs that didn't cause he death. There were also no pills in his body, so Michael could not had taken anything himself. Only propofol and another drug was listed as a cause of death, not the others. Murray's lawyer also never said anything about other drugs, not even the revival drug.

Murray admitted to everything in the tox. However, he wants to know the amount, which the tox didn't give. Murray claim to only have given Michael 25mg of propofol when he died. 25mg would no even put Michael to sleep for five minutes. Even with the other drugs, Michael would had woke up almost right away once the propofol wore off. Murray cannot claim there was someone else because he was suppose to go downstairs to get breakfast at 9am. He did not, which shows something went wrong before than and it made no sense that Michael wanted to sleep between 10 and 11am.

When the media first learn of propofol, they didn't know what the heck they were talking about most of the time. Those who talks about propofol not being found it the tox does not know that they can trace propofol as far as years. A person can die from something called Chronic Propofol Intoxication which is when you slowly poison your body with propofol over a period of years. That is how some people actually die of propofol addiction.
Click to expand...

I agree totally with you about the amount of propofol Murray claimed to have given MJ, it was not enough to sedate for more than a few minutes. Yes the amounts and mode of administration are key (continuous IV drip or pump or boluses). I've found I good website that models the pharmacokinetics (how an 'average' body handles drugs) of propofol. It clearly demonstrates that 25mg would do hardly anything. http://vam.anest.ufl.edu/simulations/propofolpharmacokinetics.php

The amounts can be worked backwards but would depend on Murray giving an accurate time of administration.

elusive moonwalker said:
re crim negligent MS I posted a question on a law site where lawyers respond to your question. the question was whats the sentencing for crim neg MS
Click to expand...

Thanks, so Crim Neg. MS is not in Cali only IM.....damn.

This is not directly related but interesting though:

In the UK news today, a locum doctor was found to have caused death amounted to gross negligence and manslaughter. Guess this would come under IM then in Cali? He gave a patient a 10 times overdose of diamorphine.

It doesn't matter that the drug was diamorphine in this case, I believe the verdict would have been the same for a non-controlled drug as well. It's the manner and regard in which the drug is given not the drug itself.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...ray_Unlawfully_Killed_In_Dr_Daniel_Ubani_Case
 
Beachlover said:
Yet, it is on record from several people that he was indeed looking for someone to administer this particular drug. He found someone and now he is dead.
Click to expand...



Actually, you should also note that he was looking for some to administer Propofol even after Murray was with him. That shows he was looking for someone who was train to give a drug like Propofol. Murray was with him longer than 6 weeks and all the reports about Michael looking for someone span mouths.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Actually, you should also note that he was looking for some to administer Propofol even after Murray was with him. That shows he was looking for someone who was train to give a drug like Propofol. Murray was with him longer than 6 weeks and all the reports about Michael looking for someone span mouths.
Click to expand...

True. Either he was looking for a second person or he wanted someone else. Thanks. I forgot about that.
 
Beachlover said:
Yet, it is on record from several people that he was indeed looking for someone to administer this particular drug. He found someone and now he is dead.
Click to expand...

that is a cold hearted statement....almost bitchy....however...we dont have any reliable sources that Michael asked for it
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top