The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

[F D B]

There's no irony at all. You should just ask yourself WHY I wrote this. The point is that some people (the conspiracy theorists) have pointed out that Roger Friedman would be a part of that so-called "conspiracy".
And I'm just showing that Roger has no relevance at all. He's not into sth. His information is limited and he's making claims, is contradicting himself and even claims things that are known to be untrue (e.g. he said there are only a few unreleased songs but this is complete rubbish as many collectors alone can confirm).

Apart from these people no-one cares about Roger for obvious reasons that I've just presented to you.

I've just replied to you on MJHideout.

 

[loka]

If MJ is not singing in the cascio Tracks what did he do during 4 months in their house ?

watching TV ? Playing Poker ? Drinking Beers ?

living like the average Joe even if, in the same house, there was a semi-pro studio ????

are we sure that he stayed 4 months ?

It the first thing to verify imo...

can you believe that MJ never sung in this Studio during 4 long Months ?

 

[L.T.D]

If MJ is not singing in the cascio Tracks what did he do during 4 months in their house ?

watching TV ? Playing Poker ? Drinking Beers ?

living like the average Joe even if, in the same house, there was a semi-pro studio ????

are we sure that he stayed 4 months ?

It the first thing to verify imo...

can you believe that MJ never sung in this Studio during 4 long Months ?

Well apparently they were like his second family, so I can easily see him just going there and chilling out.

I have allways thought that the ammount of time Michael spent recording between 2005 to 2009 was exaggerated. We know he did some recording with Will.I.am and Akon obviously, and Best of Joy suggests he did some recording outside of that. But I dont think the idea of him not recording for 4 months is too far fetched.

I think a lot of the recording was done in 2008, anything before that I just think was testing collaborations and experimenting with new sounds....as well as writing new songs obviously. Then some more recording I think would have been done in 2009.

 

[F D B]

If MJ is not singing in the cascio Tracks what did he do during 4 months in their house ?

watching TV ? Playing Poker ? Drinking Beers ?

living like the average Joe even if, in the same house, there was a semi-pro studio ????

are we sure that he stayed 4 months ?

It the first thing to verify imo...

can you believe that MJ never sung in this Studio during 4 long Months ?

Perhaps he worked on some music but everything was left in real demo stages like "In The Back". With "lalala's" all over. That'd explain why the Cascio's had to get someone to do the whole thing with lyrics, just using Michael's melodies.

We all know that Michael wasn't a regular type of artist, who would write and record a song and call it "done" in one week or even in one month.
He'd constantly be going back and forth with it, changing stuff, adding stuff, etc. That's why he took so long in between albums. Invincible was released in 2001. Ten years ago. And four years after Blood On The Dancefloor, which wasn't even a real full album. Just 5 new songs and a bunch of different remixes.
That's what makes sense to me, the most.

So why would he change, all of a sudden, his methods and his philosophy (PERFECTIONISM at its best) SOLEY when he worked with the Cascio's. Which, by the way, are the only questionable tracks in his carreer. LOL.

Apparently, to many people, Michael changed himself 100% when he stayed at the Cascio's house, let's see:

*His voice sounded REALLY different like never before in his life.

*His methods changed drastically, and he recorded and finished 14 (14!!!) songs, a whole album, in just 4 months, whilst usually he'd never take less than 4 months to do just one single song. LOL, isn't that ironic?.

*He didn't register the songs right away like he always did. Instead, the Cascio's registered the songs FOR HIM 2 days after he died. Irony again?.

*Nothing's left from those sessions. The Cascio's claimed they erase all the rest of the takes. HAHAHA! Tell me WHO would do that? WHO would destroy outtakes from a MICHAEL JACKSON session?!!?!?! That's simply UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE.

And some other stuff that I can't remember right now.

 

[Kirshach]

If MJ is not singing in the cascio Tracks what did he do during 4 months in their house ?

watching TV ? Playing Poker ? Drinking Beers ?

living like the average Joe even if, in the same house, there was a semi-pro studio ????

are we sure that he stayed 4 months ?

It the first thing to verify imo...

can you believe that MJ never sung in this Studio during 4 long Months ?

First of all, do you think we know everything MJ did? If there wasn't an announcement of TII shows in March, would we know he was preparing a series of concerts?
I believe he did record in Cascios' studio, but these songs were as demo as In The Back (lol, you beat me on that, F D B), for example, so they couldn't have been released and were done by an impersonator. That's just my assumption
And anyway, why couldn't MJ just have 4 months of ordinary live without any vanity? I believe it's also possible
So guys, to put is shortly, we still don't know anything

 

[loka]

Perhaps he worked on some music but everything was left in real demo stages like "In The Back". With "lalala's" all over. That'd explain why the Cascio's had to get someone to do the whole thing with lyrics, just using Michael's melodies.

It's also what I used to say about this story for weeks now.

they were almost on the same stage than "in the back"

that's why we feel the "musical DNA" of MJ on BN and on Monster !

 

[Kirshach]

And some other stuff that I can't remember right now.

You forgot that he has also erased all the demos and left only acapellas

 

[Korgnex]

*His methods changed drastically, and he recorded and finished 14 (14!!!) songs, a whole album, in just 4 months, whilst usually he'd never take less than 4 months to do just one single song. LOL, isn't that ironic?.

He only laid down vocals for some tracks. That's a big difference. None of them are finished. The music you hear on the album is completely new. Only the vocals are from the Cascio basement.

*He didn't register the songs right away like he always did. Instead, the Cascio's registered the songs FOR HIM 2 days after he died. Irony again?.

How often has this to be explained? Look at Bryan Loren, the MJ Estate etc. They have also registered songs after his death. There's NOTHING suspicious. You don't have to register songs when there's no possibility of any commercial usage in the near future.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

I find it funny how the non-believers are using the "they were just in demo form like In The Back" argument now, when believers have been saying that from the jump and have added why certain songs may have parts filled in. Yet they were being discredited because the songs should only be "100% Michael", ironic. Yet, with that said, I don't think all the songs were done this way, and only minimally completed, which IMO, is why certain songs sound more like Michael and others don't, ala KYHU & Monster.


But like I Korgenex said, I find it perfectly reasonable that Michael recorded only words, without any instrumentation, and beats were later added, like Teddy said, and processed to match Michael's melody. The only problem with that is, how does that explain Eddie playing Monster on the keyboard during the Oprah show?

 

[F D B]

He only laid down vocals for some tracks. That's a big difference. None of them are finished. The music you hear on the album is completely new. Only the vocals are from the Cascio basement.

I know that, silly billy.
But Michael used to work a lot on vocals. Not only the background music. How can you explain that he did 14 songs in just 4 months? Even if it's just the vocals. Sounds like a really short time for someone like Michael. I mean, even for the trash music we hear nowadays 14 songs in 4 months is a lot.

How often has this to be explained? Look at Bryan Loren, the MJ Estate etc. They have also registered songs after his death. There's NOTHING suspicious. You don't have to register songs when there's no possibility of any commercial usage in the near future.

LOL. For a family that spent SO MUCH TIME with one of the nicest human being's on Earth and the most talented artist of all times, 2 days isn't much of a grieving that, is it?.
Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but only the Cascio songs were released 2 days after he died?.
Not Hollywood Tonight? Not Best Of Joy? THAT'S what's suspicious about it.

Blessings.

 

[Dorian]

I find it weird hwo to record a song only vocally?I mean...Michael created first the instrumentals...It's wierd.

 

[Arklove]

I find it weird hwo to record a song only vocally?I mean...Michael created first the instrumentals...It's wierd.

I know...I was thinking about this, too..I've heard him mention that he always did melody and instrumentation first...Lyrics come after...I mean, doesn't mean he did it like this ALL the time...But, still interesting...

 

[Korgnex]

^ No-one has ever claimed so. There might have been some music originally but that's not on the compilation "Michael". All the music on the Cascio songs you can hear on "Michael" is all-new (or heavily reworked).

 

[F D B]

I find it weird hwo to record a song only vocally?I mean...Michael created first the instrumentals...It's wierd.

I don't find it weird.
Even if it was MJ on the Cascio songs. Michael was THE BEST at beatboxing. He could just create the music with his mouth, record it on the phone and then write the lyrics and sing the melody with that base he created beatboxing.
Listen to "The Way You Love Me" that's on the album, the beginning of it with Michael laying down the idea through the phone or tape recorder.

Another option is that the Cascio's gave him a very raw base which Michael used to create the melody and put a few lyrics on it. Even Michael himself needed a baseline to start from.

That being said, I also want to add that Michael didn't write any of the lyrics for the Cascio songs.

 

[Dorian]

Thanks for clearing guys.Sounds more plauzible now.

 

[Korgnex]

@F D B: He DID (co-)write them. It's your choice to not believe it though.

 

[Superstition]

People are all over the place with the varying degrees to which they believe these songs were "demos". Personally, I don't care: I clearly hear someone singing most of the leads.... Keep Your Head Up has two verses and a bridge, Breaking News has a couple of verses and a bridge, Monster has two verses and a bridge... So what are people saying, that he mumbled those parts and someone else has gone over them and sung them? It's him or its not. There is no middle ground.

If the only point of contention was the chorus, or some voice in the far background, many probably would ease up. Personally, I've got no issue with someone fleshing out backing vocals. My issue is with the leads and the leads alone. Regardless of their authenticity, I think they sound whiney, awful and totally in stark contrast to songs like Hollywood Tonight or Best Of Joy.

In fact, Hollywood Tonight is an example of a demo; a couple of Mike's lyrics are rehashed during the song, someone else is whistling and doing some spoken parts, and there is a spoken bridge by one of his nephews. THAT'S what I consider a demo brought to completion.

 

[F D B]

I find it funny how the non-believers are using the "they were just in demo form like In The Back" argument now, when believers have been saying that from the jump and have added why certain songs may have parts filled in. Yet they were being discredited because the songs should only be "100% Michael", ironic. Yet, with that said, I don't think all the songs were done this way, and only minimally completed, which IMO, is why certain songs sound more like Michael and others don't, ala KYHU & Monster.

Well, I can only speak for myself but... I have never said that it should only be "100%" Michael Jackson.
I mean, of course that the LEAD vocals MUST be 100% Michael Jackson unless it's an intentional duet.
It's just that, to me, on the Cascio tracks on the album "Michael" there is NO MICHAEL AT ALL on the lead vocals. Not even on the background ones. Maybe just on some adlibs.
I can hear him on the adlibs of Breaking News for example, although it doesn't make sense to me that he'd record just adlibs for a song and nothing else. That's what leads me to believe that there's no MJ at all on the whole song. Not even on the adlibs, even though I kinda hear him there.

That's exactly why I said that, AT MOST the songs were like "In The Back" demo stages which is why the Cascio's had to hire an impersonator (I really, truly, hear Jason Malachi and no one else) to record the lyrics THEY (the Cascio's) wrote, following the bare melody MJ had created.
That's the theory that makes most sense to me. But it doesn't mean it's what I believe.
I doubt anything, even the melody, was created by MJ. I doubt Michael recorded anything. I doubt he left these songs in an "In The Back" stage because I doubt he was involved AT ALL with these.

 

[Kirshach]

I find it funny how the non-believers are using the "they were just in demo form like In The Back" argument now, when believers have been saying that from the jump and have added why certain songs may have parts filled in. Yet they were being discredited because the songs should only be "100% Michael", ironic. Yet, with that said, I don't think all the songs were done this way, and only minimally completed, which IMO, is why certain songs sound more like Michael and others don't, ala KYHU & Monster.

As you see in the poll, most members think that the songs are completely sung MJ, so...
Also, loka told about "In The Back argument" long before and I didn't say anything about songs being partially sung by impersonator at all. In my opinion, it's the same person and the reason why some parts sound different than the others is poor ability of head resonating which is necessary to sing high notes and inability to change voice on low notes (cause vocal cords are naturally always more emasculate there)

 

[F D B]

You forgot that he has also erased all the demos and left only acapellas

I added that one now. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

As you see in the poll, most members think that the songs are completely sung MJ, so...
Also, loka told about "In The Back argument" long before and I didn't say anything about songs being partially sung by impersonator at all. In my opinion, it's the same person and the reason why some parts sound different than the others is poor ability of head resonating which is necessary to sing high notes and inability to change voice on low notes (cause vocal cords are more emasculate there)

Actually I said the "In The Back" thing months ago in support of the songs, and why they had additional vocalists, and they were being discredited by other fans stating, "these songs should be all Michael, if they weren't finished they shouldn't be completed with backing vocalists, they should just be left alone." Not saying you, or anyone else in this thread said that, but it has been said. And I'm sorry, but your explanation doesn't explain the difference in vocals on a song like KYHU and any Malachi song. High and low notes have little to do with it when you can go through a whole verse and compare that with another verse from the artist you all seem to be recently obsessed over, and tell the differences in vocals.

 

[Kirshach]

Actually I said the "In The Back" thing months ago in support of the songs, and why they had additional vocalists, and they were being discredited by other fans stating, "these songs should be all Michael, if they weren't finished they shouldn't be completed with backing vocalists, they should just be left alone." Not saying you, or anyone else in this thread said that, but it has been said. And I'm sorry, but your explanation doesn't explain the difference in vocals on a song like KYHU and any Malachi song. High and low notes have little to do with it when you can go through a whole verse and compare that with another verse from the artist you all seem to be recently obsessed over, and tell the differences in vocals.

Yep, there definitely is difference between Malachi's and Cascio's songs, but I can only suppose it's JM voice edited to sound more like MJ, because there's completely different vocal technique (I mean not pronounciation, but sound making) and also because Malachi did have that fast 'sheepish' vibrato and Michael didn't

 

[Jesta]

Does someone mind explaining this "In The Back" statement to me?

 

[donalb]

Actually I said the "In The Back" thing months ago in support of the songs, and why they had additional vocalists, and they were being discredited by other fans stating, "these songs should be all Michael, if they weren't finished they shouldn't be completed with backing vocalists, they should just be left alone." Not saying you, or anyone else in this thread said that, but it has been said. And I'm sorry, but your explanation doesn't explain the difference in vocals on a song like KYHU and any Malachi song. High and low notes have little to do with it when you can go through a whole verse and compare that with another verse from the artist you all seem to be recently obsessed over, and tell the differences in vocals.

Regarding your point that KYHU sounds different from any Malachi song, do you honestly believe that Michael would be approve of the vocals that we hear on the CD regardless of their authenticity? There is definitely something wrong here for whatever reason in my opion...

 

[ivy]

Basically he says there is no imposter on those songs, but some lines are not Michael's voice. Go figure out what does that mean.

credited back ground / additional vocals.

there's nothing illegal or fake about filling the missing parts with additional vocals if you properly credit them.

I wonder if This is a Possibility :

The Estate itself asked to Malachi to finsih the songs...

what is your opinion on this ?

and not crediting him? fraud. and any knowingly participation in an illegal activity can get executors removed from their duties. so I'll say "not likely" IMO.

 

[kopwatcher]

As you see in the poll, most members think that the songs are completely sung MJ, so...

Did you mean 'aren't'?

 

[Kirshach]

Did you mean 'aren't'?

Why? it's 40%
I mean there's more who people believe that the vocals are completely MJ than people who think it's completely impersonator. Yet more people think it's not 100% Michael

 

[kopwatcher]

Most members don't think the songs are completely sung by MJ. Only 40% do. The rest think it's either partially him, not him, or not sure. That's why I thought you had it round the wrong way.

 

[loka]

Does someone mind explaining this "In The Back" statement to me?

In the Back is a unfinshed track

it lacks lyrics and probably more music

some of us (including me) believe that MJ left some tracks which look like "in the back" to the Cascio family.

they probably filled them with an imitator in order to finish them after the death of MJ.

IMO,

it's the most plausible and the most satisfying solution to this whole mess.

Was it the right thing to do ?

I don't know...

I'm not in their shoes and i don't know what I would have done in their place.

I'm sure they didn't do this for the Money.

I'm sure that if Malachi sings some parts, he didn't do it for the money either..even not for the glory.

 

[loka]

MJ was known to write lyrics at the very end of the process

Brad buxer confirmed it in an interview to "Black and white" magazine lately.