The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

[Sophielo]

The fighting stops now or the thread will need to be closed for cleaning. Move on.

 

[Korgnex]

@ Korgnex - I can't understand your point, constantly trying to discredit Kapital by mentioning what he said on other Fan Boards (MaxJax, MJHideout, etc).

I'm sure Kapital knows I am NOT discrediting him on a personal level. He's postings on many forums, spreading his opinion as a fact. That's why I'm addressing him.

He feels 100% sure about everything he's saying.

These comparison videos e.g. are showing one thing only:
By selecting a few words you COULD see a SIMILARITY (which some people wrongly call a 100% match).

However Kapital is avoiding to make comparisons about anything else of all the other parts of the Cascio songs (which is about 99% of them) which sound NOTHING(!) like a certain impersonator.
He's just believing he's totally right because he (and others) have found SIMILARITIES for about some seconds.

Most often he's saying everything is sung by by the Jason dude.
And sometimes all of a sudden he's crediting some vocals to James Porte if people point out to him that it doesn't sound like Jason at all.


He's selecting certain bits of information and posts it on MJHideOut. By this selection he's suppressing important information. Members on MJHideOut can't have a chance to understand the whole thing by just reading through his thread. There's only one opinion accepted and spread in this thread.


His signature was promoting the fake complains, too.


If you want a serious discussion, you don't create sites or promote such sites that are trying to spread their "truth" to all people - just because the site creators think they are right.

 

[L.T.D]

He feels 100% sure about everything he's saying.

Doesnt everyone? :S

These comparison videos e.g. are showing one thing only:
By selecting a few words you COULD see a SIMILARITY (which some people wrongly call a 100% match).

Well thats just your opinion, I can only speak for myself in saying that mostly everything I hear coming out of Malachi's mouth I also hear on the Cascio tracks. Specifically the 'Dont Walk Away' acapella video of him singing.

However Kapital is avoiding to make comparisons about anything else of all the other parts of the Cascio songs (which is about 99% of them) which sound NOTHING(!) like a certain impersonator.
He's just believing he's totally right because he (and others) have found SIMILARITIES for about some seconds.

Again thats just your opinion, I think these video's have shocked many of us and we are now sure that it is Malachi on these tracks.

 

[Arklove]

These 'similarities' that people mention...To me, agreeing with L.T.D., I hear more than just 'similarities'...But, what alarms me THE MOST is that the voice on the Cascio tracks sound a hell of a lot more 'similar' to Jason Malachi than Michael Jackson himself...THAT'S the issue...THAT is what I hear....

 

[Kapital77]

I'm sure Kapital knows I am NOT discrediting him on a personal level. He's postings on many forums, spreading his opinion as a fact. That's why I'm addressing him.

And what´s the problem with that...?

I can say whatever i want.

If i think that Jason Malchi is the supposed singer on the Cascio´s tracks, i am free to say whatever i want...

He feels 100% sure about everything he's saying.

Of course, me and many members of many forums. :cheeky:

These comparison videos e.g. are showing one thing only:
By selecting a few words you COULD see a SIMILARITY (which some people wrongly call a 100% match).

A few words?.

There are a lot of video & audio comparations that shows Jason Malachi is the voice of Monster, Keep your head up, Breaking news, All i need and Stay.

However Kapital is avoiding to make comparisons about anything else of all the other parts of the Cascio songs (which is about 99% of them) which sound NOTHING(!) like a certain impersonator.

I did not make the comparations, but i can tell you that it´s enought with that parts to know that Mj did not sung on those songs. There is no need to look for other parts of one song because all songs are differents and has differents speeds or tones.

He's just believing he's totally right because he (and others) have found SIMILARITIES for about some seconds.

Yes, and because many people (Tony Kurtis, etc..) told that Jason sings in those songs. Because many musicians, producers (Rodney Jerkins, Batten) said that Mj is not singing in those songs.

And because i am pretty sure that the vocals of those songs are not from Mj.

Most often he's saying everything is sung by by the Jason dude.
And sometimes all of a sudden he's crediting some vocals to James Porte if people point out to him that it doesn't sound like Jason at all.

I always said that Jason is the lead vocal and the comparation videos that other people made shows that lead vocal.

He's selecting certain bits of information and posts it on MJHideOut. By this selection he's suppressing important information. Members on MJHideOut can't have a chance to understand the whole thing by just reading through his thread. There's only opinion accepted and spread.

The members of that forum are not stupid. They look in other forums and they have ears to know what is Mj and what is Jason Malachi.

His signature was promoting the fake complains, too.

My signature say my truth and the truth of other members.

I can put in my signature whatever i want. ok?.

If you don´t like, don´t look.

By the way... what are you trying to achieve?... that moderators erase my signature? Sony erase my signature?.

If you are so sure that Mj sung on those songs, please don´t be afraid with my signature.

If you want a serious discussion, you don't create sites or promote such sites that are trying to spread their "truth" to all people - just because the site creators think they are right.

I did not created any web to spread that truth. I also don´t know who created Fakemichael.com.

Ohhh Korgnex...

You are looking in MJ forums, looking for people that are telling that MJ did not sung on those songs.

You will have a great job, because many members of many forums are telling the same... and we are free to talk about what we want.

Let the people be free to say whatever they want... if you are sure that Mj sung on those songs.. it´s OK FOR YOU.

 

[Korgnex]

^ Of course, you can say whatever you want.

BUT, Kapital77, you're not just saying it, you're putting much effort into an attempt to spread your opinion as the ultimate truth. and that's the wrong way.

 

[Dorian]

@Kapital77.

Many people?Tony Kurtis and...?
Many producers?Rodney Jerkins,Jeniffer and...?(Btw Jeniffer isn't really a music producer but I get your point).

Don't want to be rude.Just want to clarify some things.

 

[bluesky]

I'm sorry but, being an educated person who doesn't read a lot of 'fiction' or watch a lot of 'mystery' type programs, my brain will not let me accept conspiracy theories that come across as implausible.

In the same vein, I don't believe conspiracy theories about; '9/11' (the US Government planned/allowed it to happen you know?), Princess Diana (the Royal Family were behind her murder due to her being pregnant don't you know?), or the 1969 moon landings (it was all a hoax carried out in the desert don't you know?).

The trouble is, if you believe in conspiracies then you will always be able to twist things to 'prove' your thoeries - and no one can convince you otherwise.

I posted some questions earlier, relating to a realistic 'motive' for Sony allowing Porte to be credited but not JM. They were conveniently ignored, perhaps because the questions are founded on 'logic'. I will repeat a couple of questions though, just in case they were missed;

How many millions have been paid out to how many people to keep this covered up? (Or is there only JM and 1 person at the whole of Sony who know about the 'arrangement'?)

How do Sony expect to make any money off an album, which they could only assume would sell about the same as 'TII', when they are paying millions out as 'hush money'?

Why, if they know JM is actually the singer on the Cascio tracks, didn't they just save themselves millions in 'hush money' and use other 'cheaper' tracks?

Here's another one;

Why would Sony, after the debacle of the 'TII' single, decide to risk sabotaging the 'Michael' album with 'fake' tracks and 'cover-ups'?

I will answer a question (again) that keeps croping up from the conspiracy theorists though;

Question - "Why would Sony even have to verify the tracks were MJ if there was nothing wrong with them?"

Answer - Because they are dealing with a disjointed, disfunctional family (the Jacksons), who have limited intelligence (which has been displayed on numerous occasions), who are after as much involvement and as much money as possible for their own ends. I would imagine only one of the Jacksons would have to say "That doesn't sound much like Michael" for the whole family to spot a plan that benefits themselves. That scenario would have Sony execs scratching their heads (not for the first time with the Jackson family!) and saying "Well let's prove to them that it is, to get them to shut up and allow us to do our jobs".

I find the above a lot more plausable than one of the world biggest companies committing
a world wide fraud and paying millions in huch money to a complete nobody like JM - don't you?

Good post! Like to see if someone can answer these questions.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Bumper Snippet (I'll call you 'BS' from now on if you don't mind, as it's shorter :wink

You're obviously not picking up on the same comments that I am.

How is it possible that JM is on the tracks instead of MJ without a conspiracy (cover up)?

If JM is on the tracks instead of MJ, then many people are keeping quiet/covering it up/lying/colluding.

Which one of us is misunderstanding the term 'conspiracy'? I My understanding is;


•a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act


Surely a fraud, such as the one JM supporters are claiming, comes under this definition?

I prefer Bumper than BS ;-)

Well, to answer your post, it is not because there is one fraud going on that you can categorize all doubters as conspiracy theorists only because their ears hear more Malachi's voice than Michael's voice, that was my point.

You are going too far by assuming that doubters are such as those who don't believe in moonlanding, or who believe in the 9/11 government plot, etc.

This is not the case here at all. Let's face the facts. We do want to believe that it is Michael, but our ears do not hear Michael. And no, we are neither influenced by the Jacksons clan nor are we deaf. So, many of us presume there is a fraud or something unusual happened to recordings. What is frustrating for doubters is not to be able to see or hear any kind or trace of evidence that it is Michael singing. Furthermore, what is alarming is that the voice that doubters hear ressembles way too much more to Jason's than to Michael's. But, no one knows for sure if it is indeed Jason. Maybe it is someone else.

All in all, with the best faith and trust in Cascio family, in SONY and all experts, our ears still don't hear Michael. Why is that?

 

[ilmjj]

I agree with Stevland Hardaway Morris. I think it sounds more like Michael than not...

 

[loka]

nobody noticed that the not only the melody of "all i need" but the voice too remind "You are not alone" ?

I first said this 3 or 4 weeks ago...and nobody else seemed to notice it...

It's so obvious for me...the voice is almost the same than on "Yana" but without the Reverb this time.

 

[Arklove]

All in all, with the best faith and trust in Cascio family, in SONY and all experts, our ears still don't hear Michael. Why is that?

Because, Bumper, you are a conspiracy theorist

:lol:

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Good post! Like to see if someone can answer these questions.

The problem is not to answer, the problem is that people don't read the answers and assume that nobody answered because they want to believe only the side of the person who asked those questions without bothering to read what has been debated here for months. But just for you, I'll answer and you believe whatever and whoever you want anyway.

I'm sorry but, being an educated person who doesn't read a lot of 'fiction' or watch a lot of 'mystery' type programs, my brain will not let me accept conspiracy theories that come across as implausible.

First, no one shouts that there is everywhere conspiracy, only on three poor tracks, nothing more.

Second, so people who like 'fiction' and 'mystery' type programs are not down to earth and illogical people who believe in plots and conspiracies? Is that what you are saying? No? Then why bother mentioning it?

In the same vein, I don't believe conspiracy theories about; '9/11' (the US Government planned/allowed it to happen you know?), Princess Diana (the Royal Family were behind her murder due to her being pregnant don't you know?), or the 1969 moon landings (it was all a hoax carried out in the desert don't you know?).

In the same vein??? As music industry?

You don't believe. Ok, what is your point? You think that the doubters are conspiracy theorists who believe all what you listed there??? What the heck does that have to do with not hearing Michael on the Cascio's tracks???

The trouble is, if you believe in conspiracies then you will always be able to twist things to 'prove' your thoeries - and no one can convince you otherwise.

What conspiracies are you talking about? Moonlanding? Princess Diana? 9/11?

Or are you trying to make believe people that doubters believe all teh above listed events as conspiracies and that they add the Cascio story to the same list? I just don't get the relationship between what you listed and the Cascio tracks.

And what if a conspiracy theorist believes that Michael is indeed singing on the Cascio tracks? What are you going to say then? That you share the same opinion with a conspiracy theorist? Hence you twist together with him/her the argument that it is Michael singing?

Why is it so difficult for you to admit that there are people who are not conspiracy theorists and in the same time don't hear Michael on the Cascio tracks?

I posted some questions earlier, relating to a realistic 'motive' for Sony allowing Porte to be credited but not JM. They were conveniently ignored, perhaps because the questions are founded on 'logic'. I will repeat a couple of questions though, just in case they were missed;

As far as Porte debate is concerned, it has already been answered. Porte wasn't really the issue since he was hired to do the backing vocals. The debate was about the lead vocals, remember?

How many millions have been paid out to how many people to keep this covered up? (Or is there only JM and 1 person at the whole of Sony who know about the 'arrangement'?)

Are you expecting a copy of a cheque with exact number and all the names here on this forum? Come on, let's get serious. As I said, if there is a fraud sooner or later it will be uncovered, but unfortunately such kinds of things happen always when it's too late. Unfortunately in some cases the truth is never known or is deliberately silenced.

The doubters of course cannot provide the amount of money and a list of people involved, but neither can you --NOR THE CASCIOS-- provide a demo or any trace that Michael worked on those tracks as a matter of fact. Saying that everything was destroyed or lost is rather a weak argument. We're still waiting for some tangible traces, because so far we have only our ears to trust which have nothing to do with any conpiracy theory, but simply with what we hear.

How do Sony expect to make any money off an album, which they could only assume would sell about the same as 'TII', when they are paying millions out as 'hush money'?

Well, did you consider that if you buy now this album with those Cascios tracks, that you will in the future buy other similar sounding tracks? And who's the winner in that case? The 'hush money' could be good investment.

Why, if they know JM is actually the singer on the Cascio tracks, didn't they just save themselves millions in 'hush money' and use other 'cheaper' tracks?

Because they know that they will eventually run out of Michael's real tracks and that Jason (or any similar imposter) is still alive and can record dozens and dozens of more tracks for them thanks to which they will continue to milk us.

Here's another one;

Why would Sony, after the debacle of the 'TII' single, decide to risk sabotaging the 'Michael' album with 'fake' tracks and 'cover-ups'?

Who said it was sabotaging? It is the contrary. They invested to sell more and more (without Michael being here).

I will answer a question (again) that keeps croping up from the conspiracy theorists though;

If you answer your onw questions why are you debating with others?

Question - "Why would Sony even have to verify the tracks were MJ if there was nothing wrong with them?"



Answer - Because they are dealing with a disjointed, disfunctional family (the Jacksons), who have limited intelligence (which has been displayed on numerous occasions), who are after as much involvement and as much money as possible for their own ends. I would imagine only one of the Jacksons would have to say "That doesn't sound much like Michael" for the whole family to spot a plan that benefits themselves. That scenario would have Sony execs scratching their heads (not for the first time with the Jackson family!) and saying "Well let's prove to them that it is, to get them to shut up and allow us to do our jobs".

Holy Saint SONY, how lucky we are that they did such a thoughtful thing for all of us. Yet, you did not answer the most important issue here. how come that despite all what has been said by SONY doubters don't recognize Michael's voice? In other terms, are you expecting from people to forget what their ears hear and force them to believe what someone else tells them?

You sound as if fraud did not exist and as if we lived in a dreamland where everyone would be honest only because they display a happy (yet platonic) grin on their faces. As if people were naive to believe whatever they are told. Sorry, your argument with the Jacksons story (as if SONY would bother) is pure wild guess, not a fact.

I find the above a lot more plausable than one of the world biggest companies committing
a world wide fraud and paying millions in huch money to a complete nobody like JM - don't you?

No, because many of us can't recognize Michael and we alarmingly find that the voice ressembles more Jason's than Michael's (regardless what the Jacksons or what the Cascios say). When you listen to "MONSTER" and "LET ME LET GO" the voice is the same, as well as the accent. How do you explain that?

 

[kopwatcher]

No, because many of us can't recognize Michael and we alarmingly find that the voice ressembles more Jason's than Michael's (regardless what the Jacksons or what the Cascios say). When you listen to "MONSTER" and "LET ME LET GO" the voice is the same, as well as the accent. How do you explain that?

MJ was having a bad day. I often find I sound exactly like JM when I'm having a bad day too. It's a pain.

 

[Arklove]

^^ :lol:

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Because, Bumper, you are a conspiracy theorist

:lol:

Damn, I almost forgot that one, lol.

 

[Arklove]

Damn, I almost forgot that one, lol.

....just my opinion, of course lol

 

[azsummergirl]

my initial impressions of all songs have not changed. BN, Monster, KYHU, Carry On, i clearly hear a lead singer that is not michael jackson. I will admit that "all i need" is harder for me. I still think it's fake, but it's a lot subtler. This jason malachi track shows (to me at least) that he's a lot better at imitating MJ on slow songs than faster songs like BN and Monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDeWdI2Vmb0

And yes, i did notice that All I Need has notes from YANA. It's so cheesy. It's kind of like how BN has similar themes to tabloid junkie. they were trying to make songs that sound like something michael would sing.

this would be funny if it wasn't so embarassing and sad.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

....just my opinion, of course lol

A bit off topic, did you see this documentary about Universe? It's awesome all the things that we learn inhere:

 

[Arklove]

A bit off topic, did you see this documentary about Universe? It's awesome all the things that we learn inhere:

No, I haven't seen it...Interesting....

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

No, I haven't seen it...Interesting....

Yes, did you know that there is a war going on and that our human species is threatened by the dark side of the force? I saw it with my own eyes on that TV documentary, the guy called jedi can chalk you from distance.

 

[loka]

And yes, i did notice that All I Need has notes from YANA..

Notes and Voice too...the voice on ynana had a reverb effex

it hasn't on I all need

and i agree ! it's very subtler because the singer doesn't imitate MJ...you know what I mean ?

No dah, no MJ gimmicks...so I think it could be MJ as weird as it seems.

an imitator would jacksonize the track, you see ?

this one doesn't.

but the other tracks I disagree, MJ is into them is some parts...he even probably created them. IMO

 

[azsummergirl]

Notes and Voice too...the voice on ynana had a reverb effex

it hasn't on I all need

and i agree ! it's very subtler because the singer doesn't imitate MJ...you know what I mean ?

No dah, no MJ gimmicks...so I think it could be MJ as weird as it seems.

an imitator would jacksonize the track, you see ?

this one doesn't.

but the other tracks I disagree, MJ is into them is some parts...he even probably created them. IMO

lol, no i don't see but i believe that YOU believe that it's michael, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

i DO see that the singer on this track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXsYt5l9K5M

is the singer on the cascio tracks.


--if you tell me i'm wrong, then, you better prove you're right . . .

 

[L.T.D]

Lets put it this way.

We all listened to Breaking News and havent recognized Michael in that song or any of the Cascio tracks, despite listening to Michael everyday for many years.

We DID recognise Malachi in them.

If its not Malachi and it is indeed Michael, to us it just sounds more like Malachi at the end of the day.

 

[loka]

lol, no i don't see but i believe that YOU believe that it's michael, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

i DO see that the singer on this track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXsYt5l9K5M

is the singer on the cascio tracks.


--if you tell me i'm wrong, then, you better prove you're right . . .

I DO see that the singer in "All I Need"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C73NjVQoRww

is the singer on the lead vocals on the Cascio Tracks even on "'all i need"

I could be wrong.

 

[smooth_criminal05]

All I Need sounds like something out of the 1950's. The production is very old and would not even dent current day charts. I feel like I'm watching some black and white film from 50 years ago when I listen to it. It has a very vintage feel to it. (but not a good vintage). Almost sounds like a John McClain produced song lmao

When I listen to this song, I can buy it's Michael Jackson singing until at 3:03 he says "close your eyes" and I know that is not MJ singing that line at all.

 

[L.T.D]

All I Need sounds like something out of the 1950's. The production is very old and would not even dent current day charts. I feel like I'm watching some black and white film from 50 years ago when I listen to it. It has a very vintage feel to it. (but not a good vintage). Almost sounds like a John McClain produced song lmao

When I listen to this song, I can buy it's Michael Jackson singing until at 3:03 he says "close your eyes" and I know that is not MJ singing that line at all.

So you think the majority of these songs are Michael, but there are little bits that arent him? Rather than the other way round?

 

[Aniram]

That close your eyes line really sticks out to me. It sounds like there's a strange effect on the voice.

 

[arnspecs]

So you think the majority of these songs are Michael, but there are little bits that arent him? Rather than the other way round?

He changes his mind about what he thinks is MJs voice all the time. read his past posts. First he said it wasnt him on the tracks. Then he was adamant it was. Then he said there's no way it's Michael on Monster .. two days later he said he was adamant it was.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

He changes his mind about what he thinks is MJs voice all the time. read his past posts. First he said it wasnt him on the tracks. Then he was adamant it was. Then he said there's no way it's Michael on Monster .. two days later he said he was adamant it was.

Basically he says there is no imposter on those songs, but some lines are not Michael's voice. Go figure out what does that mean.