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The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

Do I believe It Is Michael On The Three Tracks In Question.

  • Yes

    Votes: 152 39.6%

  • No

    Votes: 135 35.2%

  • I Can Not Decide

    Votes: 24 6.3%

  • Maybe in Parts

    Votes: 73 19.0%
  • Total voters
    384
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Superstition said:
People are all over the place with the varying degrees to which they believe these songs were "demos". Personally, I don't care: I clearly hear someone singing most of the leads.... Keep Your Head Up has two verses and a bridge, Breaking News has a couple of verses and a bridge, Monster has two verses and a bridge... So what are people saying, that he mumbled those parts and someone else has gone over them and sung them? It's him or its not. There is no middle ground.

If the only point of contention was the chorus, or some voice in the far background, many probably would ease up. Personally, I've got no issue with someone fleshing out backing vocals. My issue is with the leads and the leads alone. Regardless of their authenticity, I think they sound whiney, awful and totally in stark contrast to songs like Hollywood Tonight or Best Of Joy.

In fact, Hollywood Tonight is an example of a demo; a couple of Mike's lyrics are rehashed during the song, someone else is whistling and doing some spoken parts, and there is a spoken bridge by one of his nephews. THAT'S what I consider a demo brought to completion.
Click to expand...

:agree::agree::agree:
 
samhabib said:
Right... so what's been going on here then??? :)
Click to expand...

:ph34r::ph34r:

We, doubters, are conspiracy theorists. Welcome back to our ethnically pure conspiracy theorist group.

We love science fiction and mystery tv programs and we have been brainwashed by them. In other words we are not very educated because of our doubts.

As a matter of fact, there is no case per case subject, thus we all believe in one pack the following:

-We don't believe that moonlanding actually took place on the moon, but somewhere in the desert.
-We believe that the US government was involved in 9/11 with imaginary proofs.
-We believe that Lady Di was actually murdered.

And to this list we just added the Cascio's tracks.

As conspiracy theorist we always twist the arguments so they can fit our theory to prove that we are right.

So logically speaking, all those who believe that Cascio tracks are sung by Michael Jackson also believe the contrary of all above listed events. Therefore, non-doubters are educated people.

Oh yes, to the non-doubters, by the way, it's ok to have someone who filled in the gaps on Michael Jackson's presumed songs and it is not an odd thing at all, because the songs were unfinished (so they had to hire someone to finish them, so that we can enjoy the full songs).
 
^^ good summary, Bumper...However, you forgot to add that we're hypocritical, too :cheeky:
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
:ph34r::ph34r:

We, doubters, are conspiracy theorists. Welcome back to our ethnically pure conspiracy theorist group.

We love science fiction and mystery tv programs and we have been brainwashed by them. In other words we are not very educated because of our doubts.

As a matter of fact, there is no case per case subject, thus we all believe in one pack the following:

-We don't believe that moonlanding actually took place on the moon, but somewhere in the desert.
-We believe that the US government was involved in 9/11 with imaginary proofs.
-We believe that Lady Di was actually murdered.

And to this list we just added the Cascio's tracks.

As conspiracy theorist we always twist the arguments so they can fit our theory to prove that we are right.

So logically speaking, all those who believe that Cascio tracks are sung by Michael Jackson also believe the contrary of all above listed events. Therefore, non-doubters are educated people.

Oh yes, to the non-doubters, by the way, it's ok to have someone who filled in the gaps on Michael Jackson's presumed songs and it is not an odd thing at all, because the songs were unfinished (so they had to hire someone to finish them, so that we can enjoy the full songs).
Click to expand...


Bumper I fully understand your frustration but I feel sad seeing you pour fuel on the fire...
Samhabib has just come back.
What do you want Bumper?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
:ph34r::ph34r:

We, doubters, are conspiracy theorists. Welcome back to our ethnically pure conspiracy theorist group.

We love science fiction and mystery tv programs and we have been brainwashed by them. In other words we are not very educated because of our doubts.

As a matter of fact, there is no case per case subject, thus we all believe in one pack the following:

-We don't believe that moonlanding actually took place on the moon, but somewhere in the desert.
-We believe that the US government was involved in 9/11 with imaginary proofs. although this is true :/ i didn't say that, shhhhh
-We believe that Lady Di was actually murdered.

And to this list we just added the Cascio's tracks.

As conspiracy theorist we always twist the arguments so they can fit our theory to prove that we are right.

So logically speaking, all those who believe that Cascio tracks are sung by Michael Jackson also believe the contrary of all above listed events. Therefore, non-doubters are educated people.

Oh yes, to the non-doubters, by the way, it's ok to have someone who filled in the gaps on Michael Jackson's presumed songs and it is not an odd thing at all, because the songs were unfinished (so they had to hire someone to finish them, so that we can enjoy the full songs).
Click to expand...

in love with this post :wub:
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
:ph34r::ph34r:
*
We, doubters, are conspiracy theorists. Welcome back to our ethnically pure conspiracy theorist group.*
*
We love science fiction and mystery tv programs and we have been brainwashed by them. In other words we are not very educated because of our doubts.
*
As a matter of fact, there is no case per case subject, thus we all believe in one pack the following:
*
-We don't believe that moonlanding actually took place on the moon, but somewhere in the desert.
-We believe that the US government *was involved in 9/11 with imaginary proofs.
-We believe that Lady Di was actually murdered.
*
And to this list we just added the Cascio's tracks.
*
As conspiracy theorist we always twist the arguments so they can fit our theory to prove that we are right.
*
So logically speaking, all those who believe that Cascio tracks are sung by Michael Jackson also believe the contrary of all above listed events. Therefore, non-doubters are educated people.
*
Oh yes, to the non-doubters, by the way, it's ok to have someone who filled in the gaps on Michael Jackson's presumed songs and it is not an odd thing at all, because the songs were unfinished (so they had to hire someone to finish them, so that we can enjoy the full songs).
Click to expand...

Oh yes, so I've read!*

Completely preposterous, really. Because anyone who believes those songs are genuinely the work of Michael Jackson, EQUALLY, has to believe in a conspiracy.

Anyone who believes those songs to be the work of Michael Jackson has to believe that Cory Rooney is a liar. And they have to have a VERY good reason for believing he's a liar.*

They also have to believe that Latoya Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that she's lying.

They also have to believe that Randy Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that he's lying. *

They also have to believe that Taryll Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that he's lying. On what basis are they claiming that his version of events is a lie? On what basis are they claiming that the story he tells of the studio meeting he attended is untrue? What proof do they have to counter his claims? Because I, for one, would LOVE to hear it.

They also have to believe that Michael's beloved mother Katherine Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that she's lying as she stands to gain, financially, the more the record sells. So what is her motive, for example, for lying? Also please provide tangible proof that she's lying when answering.

They also have to believe that Michael's beloved children, Paris and Prince Jackson are lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that they are lying. Again, they stand to gain, financially, the more the record sells.

If ANYONE still believes those songs are the work of the greatest vocalist of the last century then, by definition, they have to believe in a conspiracy.

Ps. Not to mention that most fans who have heard the songs doubt the authenticity of them - even going by MJJC's poll. Are they all unintelligent, hypocritical conspiracy theorists?***
 
Welcome of course Samhabib.

I's all for love.

Take care,
Garden
 
Garden said:
Bumper I fully understand your frustration but I feel sad seeing you pour fuel on the fire...
Samhabib has just come back.
What do you want Bumper?
Click to expand...

First, I have no hard feelings. I am not frustrated, I am rather amused and in good mood.

Second, how can I pour fuel on the fire when all what I summerized had already been said, I am not adding anything new. I didn't quarrel with anyone, I am just pointing out what was the discussion about and what were the arguments used against doubters. If you perceive this as pouring fuel on the fire, sorry but then you should have intervened much sooner when the fire was set by Deano and fuel poured by all those who who co-signed his posts.
Or maybe, as I am apparently a conspiracy theorist, I am in a twisted way trying to drag him into a heated discussion so he can get banned again.

Third, what do I want? Personally nothing. I am just answering Sam's question.
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
First, I have no hard feelings. I am not frustrated, I am rather amused and in good mood.

Second, how can I pour fuel on the fire when all what I summerized had already been said, I am not adding anything new. I didn't quarrel with anyone, I am just pointing out what was the discussion about and what were the arguments used against doubters. If you perceive this as pouring fuel on the fire, sorry but then you should have intervened much sooner when the fire was set by Deano and fuel poured by all those who who co-signed his posts.

Third, what do I want? Personally, nothing at all. I am just answering Sam's question.
Click to expand...

Amused? OK... I will not comment on that.

I should have intervened in past discussion... well I did, but not very visible ;) ...

When others pour fuel, should we too? Just for letting the fight going on?

Sometimes I go along with you perfectly Bumper, f.i. when you talk about linguistics, I am very very interested!

I am here to study... not to fight.

So maybe I should learn better not to want to fight against fight too...

No I am decided, I am here to study.
 
Garden said:
Amused? OK... I will not comment on that.

I should have intervened in past discussion... well I did, but not very visible ;) ...

When others pour fuel, should we too? Just for letting the fight going on?

Sometimes I go along with you perfectly Bumper, f.i. when you talk about linguistics, I am very very interested!

I am here to study... not to fight.

So maybe I should learn better not to want to fight against fight too...

No I am decided, I am here to study.
Click to expand...

Look, what I meant is that what you perceive as pouring fuel on fire doesn't mean that I meant to pour fuel on fire and that it is perceived by me as such. As far as I am concerned I simply summerized what was said.

I am amused because all what has been said against doubters is so unreal that it makes me smile rather than frustrated.
 
I quote member L.T.D. here, because what he wrote in the "Keep Your Head Up-Thread" is one of the best posts i've read from any of the discussing partys.

Here's the quote from L.T.D.:

I know a lot of people wont believe me, because i'm usually the one involved in a lot of the arguements. But I feel the same, I actually called for a truce quite a while ago now but the majority of people need to oblige before that can happen.

Worst thing is, I cant see this dieing down for a while now. The only way that can happen is if either side is proven wrong without doubt, or something massive happens which overshadows the album. Like, we get the verdict we are all hoping for in the Murray case for example....something like that could bring us all back together.

The problem is that both sides feel very strongly about this, and both sides feel a massive injustice is being done. I'm sure each side believes that Michael is being insulted by the other side. The none believers are criticizing the vocals which the believers are taking offense to because they believe that is us criticizing Michael, while the none believers feel it is insulting to Michael's vocal ability for the believes to think it is him on these songs.

Alot of the believers also feel that the none believers are ruining the album by making these claims, and ruining the experience for them. While the none believers are aggrivated by the idea that everyone is believing into Sony's lies and they are getting away with it......

I think it would be nice if we all agreed on a truce (myself included), but the majority of the board needs to stick to this if its going to work. From now on we should all take a step back and think about what we are posting or the manner in which we say certain things. I'll certainly try to refrain from arguing or saying things which may offend others from now on.

End of quote. ]]

So when i was @ work today i read this & i thought i want to leave a positive feedback.

Coming home & seeing the last few comments of my, may i call them "the good ol' suspects", i've to leave the "good path" as quickly as i was on it.
 
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Well, those who quarrelled of course make truce, but I am not sure that despite the debate everyone is really being angry with each other.

We can vehemently defend our ideas without necessarily attack people for their ideas. It happens in all big families. A little heated discussion isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as we are not insulting each other and attacking.

But indeed, LTD's post is a very good post full of best intentions for everyone.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Look, what I meant is that what you perceive as pouring fuel on fire doesn't mean that I meant to pour fuel on fire and that it is perceived by me as such. As far as I am concerned I simply summerized what was said.

I am amused because all what has been said against doubters is so unreal that it makes me smile rather than frustrated.
Click to expand...




Okay Bumper, that's clear now, thanks!
 
Corey Rooney (who!?), La Toya ("My brother's a child molester") Jackson, Randy 'Nation of Islam' Jackson, Taryll 'why aren't we famous any more?' Jackson, Katherine "my son was addicted to sugery and has a nose like a toothpick" Jackson, and MJ's children (too young to know better and honor bound to follow the head of the family).

Well, when you have a list of experts like this Samhabib, then it makes the music industry experts, producers, musicians, and 30 year friends of MJ look unreliable doesn't it? Don't make me laugh.

Katherine is lovely, but not the brightest button is she? There are enough money hungry cronies amongst the Jackson family to confuse her, without any effort at all. You don't need a clever conspiracy to get that list of 'experts' singing from the same hymn sheet - they hardly have 2 brain cells to rub together. They just want 100% control, with all of them - from the youngest to old 'Papa Joe' - running the show.

As Michael said, probably thinking about some of his family at the time, "They'll do anything for money!"

LMFAO!
 
samhabib said:
Oh yes, so I've read!*

Completely preposterous, really. Because anyone who believes those songs are genuinely the work of Michael Jackson, EQUALLY, has to believe in a conspiracy.

Anyone who believes those songs to be the work of Michael Jackson has to believe that Cory Rooney is a liar. And they have to have a VERY good reason for believing he's a liar.*
Click to expand...

He's in the same boat as Tarryl. It would be odd if he wouldn't stand on Tarryls side.

samhabib said:
They also have to believe that Latoya Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that she's lying.

They also have to believe that Randy Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that he's lying. *
Click to expand...

Before i trust what randy & latoya have to offer on tmz & twitter, i trust my own ears & the often talked about (of course from most non-believers not understood) FACTS.

samhabib said:
They also have to believe that Taryll Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that he's lying. On what basis are they claiming that his version of events is a lie? On what basis are they claiming that the story he tells of the studio meeting he attended is untrue? What proof do they have to counter his claims? Because I, for one, would LOVE to hear it.
Click to expand...

I prefer to believe in Mr. Teddy Riley.

samhabib said:
They also have to believe that Michael's beloved mother Katherine Jackson is lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that she's lying as she stands to gain, financially, the more the record sells. So what is her motive, for example, for lying? Also please provide tangible proof that she's lying when answering.

They also have to believe that Michael's beloved children, Paris and Prince Jackson are lying about the bogus vocals. Again, they have to have a VERY good reason to claim that they are lying. Again, they stand to gain, financially, the more the record sells.
Click to expand...

Until now i've never read an official statement from Katherine, nor heard i say hear anything like this. In fact there were always only the reports claiming that Katherine has this opinion.

The exact same goes for paris, prince & blanket, i never saw, heard or read a real quote from them. Besides that, they are kids & could be easily influenced by the surrounding family members.
 
deano said:
Corey Rooney (who!?), La Toya ("My brother's a child molester") Jackson, Randy 'Nation of Islam' Jackson, Taryll 'why aren't we famous any more?' Jackson, Katherine "my son was addicted to sugery and has a nose like a toothpick" Jackson, and MJ's children (too young to know better and honor bound to follow the head of the family).

Well, when you have a list of experts like this Samhabib, then it makes the music industry experts, producers, musicians, and 30 year friends of MJ look unreliable doesn't it? Don't make me laugh.

Katherine is lovely, but not the brightest button is she? There are enough money hungry cronies amongst the Jackson family to confuse her, without any effort at all. You don't need a clever conspiracy to get that list of 'experts' singing from the same hymn sheet - they hardly have 2 brain cells to rub together. They just want 100% control, with all of them - from the youngest to old 'Papa Joe' - running the show.

As Michael said, probably thinking about some of his family at the time, "They'll do anything for money!"

LMFAO!
Click to expand...


No, Michael had Mike Tyson's nose and Katherine means nothing but bad things about her own son who trusted her enough to educate his children. Yes that Katherine.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
No, Michael had Mike Tyson's nose and Katherine means nothing but bad things about her own son who trusted her enough to educate his children. Yes that Katherine.
Click to expand...

No, MJ had not MT's nose. ;)
But very true: Katherine herself got it wrong with Michaels nose & his plastic surgeries.

Katherine is as old as Quincy.
And since Quincy got it dead wrong with Michaels skin, i don't give a damn about what Quincy has to say.
 
MJJuniorSinceMW said:
No, MJ had not MT's nose. ;)
But very true: Katherine herself got it wrong with Michaels nose & his plastic surgeries.

Katherine is as old as Quincy.
And since Quincy got it dead wrong with Michaels skin, i don't give a damn about what Quincy has to say.
Click to expand...

Katherine said that Michael was embarrassed to talk about plastic surgery. If Michael had two (as he clamied it) or a dozen, so what? Big deal. Obviously Katherine loved her son no matter what and no matter how many surgeries he had. We fans also love Michael regardless his private life.

Even if Katherine said that he had a nose as a toothpick,so what? Big deal? We accept him anyway, just the way she accepts him.

But let's call a cat a cat, Michael's nose was thin. Now, can we move on, because it is completely out of scope.
 
Probably my last video,

The Cascio tracks falsetto VS Jason Malachi's falsetto:

[youtube]mNZZOkelZXE[/youtube]

Nice work, Michael. You're falsetto was back then identical to Jason. Not cool.

By the way, welcome back, sam.
 
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deano said:
Corey Rooney (who!?), La Toya ("My brother's a child molester") Jackson, Randy 'Nation of Islam' Jackson, Taryll 'why aren't we famous any more?' Jackson, Katherine "my son was addicted to sugery and has a nose like a toothpick" Jackson, and MJ's children (too young to know better and honor bound to follow the head of the family).
Click to expand...

In other words "I can't explain why they've said those things so I'll just slander them instead".

Point proved.
 
Pentum said:
Probably my last video,

The Cascio tracks falsetto VS Jason Malachi's falsetto:

[youtube]TCjd-0-mG30[/youtube]

Nice work, Michael. You're falsetto was back then identical to Jason. Not cool.

By the way, welcome back, sam.
Click to expand...


Why last? Are you going to jail? Is someone after you from SONY/ESTATE or CASCIO and you have to hide?

Nice job, anyway. The same voice all over the link you posted.
 
Pentum said:
Probably my last video,

The Cascio tracks falsetto VS Jason Malachi's falsetto:

[youtube]TCjd-0-mG30[/youtube]

Nice work, Michael. You're falsetto was back then identical to Jason. Not cool.
Click to expand...

I will never understand why most people choose to ignore the obvious (identical) similarity.
 
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