Awwe...your baby is such a cutie~~~Precious~~~
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The Gay Gene Debate
- Thread starter L.J
- Start date
Awwe...your baby is such a cutie~~~Precious~~~
L.J
Proud Member
Your post reminded me of a letter I posted once I'll share it again :give_flowers:
I found this incredibly heart touching.
This letter is incredibly well written. :yes:
================================================== =======
"Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the
homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've
taken enough from you good people. I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric
about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting
homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You
are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of
motherhood ever since my children were tiny.
My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little
thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the
first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade
straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay.
He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything
gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the
other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.
In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age
should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and
redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My
sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he
just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want
to be gay and that he couldn't face a life without dignity.
You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children
from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families
and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I
do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth
to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could
think, and it's about time you started doing that.
At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this
could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out
there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can
happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to
choose. Whether it is genetic or whether something occurs during a
critical time of fetal development, I don't know. I can only tell you
with an absolute certainty that it is inborn.
If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with
something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing
to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be
interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was
a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so
woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it. For
those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a
character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-
step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual
orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you
could change it at will? If that's not the case, then why would you
suggest that someone else can?
A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated
by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for
generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to
stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."
You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the
battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give
their lives so that the "homosexual agenda" could tear down the
principles they died defending. My 83-year-old father fought in some
of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded
the Purple Heart.
He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to
live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that
they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in
the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he
did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the
man.
You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges
from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong
companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your
sensibilities
that he should request the right to visit that companion in the
hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax
laws governing inheritance.
How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the
very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of
marriage. You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be
thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who
find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged
majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.
The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who
lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who
have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing"
asks: "What ever happened to the idea of striving . . . to be better
human beings than we are?"
Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?
================================================== ===
mariemarie
Guests
Straight guys get turned on by watching two girls in action or only the thought of it. Many girls I know of, as you stated, likes it when two guys are getting it on. Why shouldn't we? It's the same really. In society it is more accepted for a straight dude sto say they like girl on girl, than it is for us to say we like boy on boy. But the tides are changing
I'm a girl who LOVES men so it's only natural that I wouldn't mind seeing them one way or the other. LOL =)
EssenceOfMagic
Proud Member
how so? hetero/homo/bisexuality is just that right?- a sexuality i.e. what one is sexually attracted to.
I think homosexuality is more of a nurture influence rather than nature (genetics). There was a gay guy in my highschool who was heaps into sport and machinery- cars, wood work etc.., not much into fashion, didn't have a "gay accent" and he was gay.....but then a few years later he got a girlfriend :mello: so I guess he's bi now. Anyway, point is, that a male or female behaving as the opposite sex to some extent in line with societies stereotypes, does not make them gay.
troubleman84
Proud Member
Yeah there's gay people who are not into pop divas or fashion but sports and cars and sh*t, but they'll shock their family members if they ever tell 'em that they're gay because "he doesn't feel, look or act one". Some gays and a lot of bisexual men are sports freaks. :yes: I know some are into football or basketball or hockey or soccer.
mariemarie
Guests
At the end of the day, we're all gay. Or more likely bi, if we have to label everything. Love and attraction can be so much more than gender. I think it is attraction.
We should celebrate the thing called love and attraction, not the hatred.
Peace and love all over the world!
We should celebrate the thing called love and attraction, not the hatred.
Peace and love all over the world!
troubleman84
Proud Member
You said what I wanted to say. :lol: :wub:
what i meant was, being homosexual, heterosexual or any 'sexual' holds other elements to it. Being gay or straight or even in between, does not mean your life is ruled by sex and the pursuit of it. You can be straight and not engage in any sexual activities...the same applies to any other sexual orientation. The most important thing in my life is my children and taking care of them. Since 2001 my sexuality is really not even a subject, sexually speaking. It merely defines the specific sex of the people that are sexually attractive to me.
the kid in your highschool could have easily been me ... that describes my high school life to a T. I had a girlfriend in high school, she was a front, for the appearance of me being a 'normal' teen and was actually only a very close friend. She knew I had a boyfriend.
Dude, I completely understand your position...
but I don't think the statement was meant to offend or upset any gay peoples. however, I am sure there are some straight people that would have similar feelings about their heterosexuality also
the main point was, We should celebrate the thing called love and attraction, not the hatred.
wtf ... did I just tell everyone that I have not been sexually active in like, forever :doh: hey !! maybe I am not gay anymore
**looks at my siggy** NOPE :lol: still a big mary :hysterical: Hello Danny ... cannot wait to see you on tour this summer WHOOT WHOOT maybe I will come out of abstanance, just for you Danny **muah**
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EssenceOfMagic
Proud Member
ar, right I get ya. thanks for the clarification.
How but this question, are homosexuals and heterosexuals, sexist because they prefer one sex over the other?
L.J
Proud Member
^ well if the answer is yes then I guess bisexuals just rock! :trish: :girl_haha:
EssenceOfMagic
Proud Member
my sentiments exactly
troubleman84
Proud Member
L.J
Proud Member
in all seriousness though having a sexual preference for your own gender doesn't make you a sexist in regards to todays definition of what a sexist is. The whole thing on sexism is having attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
ie, women shouldn't get paid as much as men or be given positions of power.
however if you look up the definition of a sexist then yes we are all sexist when it comes to chosing who we want to sleep with irregardless of our sexual identity :lol:
Mechi
Proud Member
- Joined
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This is definately not true chichi! I've done partly research about it and for sure the reason wasn't to label someone in any particular way. The reason for research is to find out what's going on in the first and in the second what can be done to help ppl. The only maybe more personal reason my profs and me followed was to 'shut' some ppl up who say it is a 'choice' (as if they would know for a fact) and that's why they go on about sin blablabla...
Well some wise bright mind found out long before 'the truth often lies in the middle' just ppl can't deal with it cuz human minds are often so limited that they seem to be able to deal with black and white, right and wrong only... as a matter of fact life means much more than only that.
To me it doesn't matter, but yeah it would be nice to shut some others up with their own weapons 'proving' to them ppl are born this way 'god wanted' etc.
Well I did head out of that gay-gene research/debate for a while now and I've even lost interest cuz there's for sure more important problems this world suffers. And I can't be involved in everything and turned to other.
Just don't ever try someone to fool me it's this or that whithout that there's prove.
As long as there's no prove it's a personal decision ppl will be held responsible for if they dare to deny someone human rights cuz they happen to be different (whyever!!!)!
arXter
Proud Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2011
- Messages
- 3,134
- Points
- 63
that's very true - and i must say that's also my biggest problem with organised religion.
mariemarie
Guests
Dude, I completely understand your position...
but I don't think the statement was meant to offend or upset any gay peoples. however, I am sure there are some straight people that would have similar feelings about their heterosexuality also
the main point was, We should celebrate the thing called love and attraction, not the hatred.
Glad you saw the point I was trying to make. When my friend came out I said to her that I cannot be 100% sure if I will sometime in the future fall in love with a girl. Life is full of surprises. And even though I am pretty sure I will spend my life with my boyfriend, there are no guaranties.
I'm not speaking for everyone, just myself.
My country just legalized same sex marriage and the possibility for adoption. Pretty cool=)
Mine too actually. :yes:
L.J
Proud Member
My point is this... why would anyone choose to be in a minority group where they know they will have a heck of a hard time living a normal happy life (whatever that is). Why would someone opt to give up rights to be married, to have a child without having to jump through hoops to have the child and then jump through more hoops to keep the child. Why would anyone chose that?
Rebirth
Proud Member
Currently there is a politic scandal in Malaysia between ex-vice prime minister with his male assistant. Supposed he sodomized his assistant. The ex-vice pm was prisoned several years ago for same issue but with a different lad.
But anyway to make it short, there was an article in today's newspaper. A politician urges our government to 'outcome' homosexuality in Malaysia. He portrays homosexuality as a cancer that's spreading really fast. According to him, homosexuality is like drug addict and is the main contributor for HIV and AIDS.
...idiot.
But anyway to make it short, there was an article in today's newspaper. A politician urges our government to 'outcome' homosexuality in Malaysia. He portrays homosexuality as a cancer that's spreading really fast. According to him, homosexuality is like drug addict and is the main contributor for HIV and AIDS.
...idiot.
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troubleman84
Proud Member
Rebirth, that's what you call IGNORANCE.
Anyway, fuck labels.
Anyway, fuck labels.
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laurenjayne
Proud Member
i agree the guy is being ignorant
Roxanne
Proud Member
i think that at a certain degree u are born this way and ur childhood/early teen experiences play an important part in developing it.
marialovesmjj
Proud Member
In my opinion some people choose and some do not.
It's for people like that (^^) that our world is as f'ed up as it is, ignorance and prejudice are the only real cancers that have eaten up society.
As to the question, L.J. hun that's just way to long for my lazy self to read lol, but IMO people who are gay are born gay, don't ask me why cuz I really couldn't explain that's just how I view it.
L.J
Proud Member
^ that's an interesting theory. :yes:
I always get a little concerned when people say that the results are from the womb experience though. I mean if it really boils down to what a woman eats or breathes in or does during pregnancy will effect the outcome of the baby. Then gosh that opens the blame door for some people. "It's my mum's fault I'm gay because of all those damn bananas she ate during her pregnancy."
I just think it's a roll of the dice thing like eye and hair colour.
I always get a little concerned when people say that the results are from the womb experience though. I mean if it really boils down to what a woman eats or breathes in or does during pregnancy will effect the outcome of the baby. Then gosh that opens the blame door for some people. "It's my mum's fault I'm gay because of all those damn bananas she ate during her pregnancy."
I just think it's a roll of the dice thing like eye and hair colour.
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Grand Master S
Proud Member
If I am to understand the subject matter correctly, I do believe there is a typo in the title here.
Anyway, now THESE are some gay jeans!
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Anyway, now THESE are some gay jeans!
DamitaMo
Proud Member
i'm not really sure how much genetics plays a part in determining sexuality. I think upbringing has alot to do with it. I was bought up by my mom (dad worked away ALOT), i have a sister and all my cousins are female, i was the only boy of my age in the street but there were 6 girls who i'd hang out with as a kid so the only male role model in my life was Michael Jackson and he wore sparkly clothing, wore make up and had a kick a** perm!! 23 yrs later im a raving Mo so i blame my mom, my sister (for dressing me up as a princess in her bridesmaid dress at the age of 5 ), the girls in my street for not playing "boy games", and MJ lol (only kidding on the blaming MJ part) but i do hold him responsible for constantly emptying my bank account when I find a new piece of MJ memorabilia that i HAVE to by immediately or i'll turn to dust!! ;o)
), the girls in my street for not playing "boy games", and MJ lol (only kidding on the blaming MJ part) but i do hold him responsible for constantly emptying my bank account when I find a new piece of MJ memorabilia that i HAVE to by immediately or i'll turn to dust!! ;o)
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LOL DamitaMo LMFGAO
see when I was young, i did not want to play with the boys ... similar to how a little girl would rather play with other little girls. Or the boys played with the boys. I had friends that were boys but I gravitated to playing with the girls, at a young age. As I grew and began to realize that I was suppose to be hanging with the guys, I slowly altered my behaviour. Eventually I became "one of the guys" but the whole time, I was DYING to go back and be "one of the Girls" ... That is the only choice that can be made for some ... it is either fit in or die. The only time I allowed myself to be me, was when I was with my boyfriend in private or far away from public view. Luckily he understood and loved me enought to deal with my situation. In the school environment, we were polar opposites. He was the outcast, goofy hair and clothes, very flamboyant and I was the jock. Many times my circle of friends would target him and his friends for ridicule. It was hard trying to stand up for them and not seem too sympathetic to them. The last thing I wanted was to blow my well orchestrated cover, of being a big macho jock, by sticking up for the freaks and geeks. When push came to shove though, I never let anything happen to them.
I made up for the contrived life I forced myself and Jeff to live though. At my last HighSchool Reunion, I even let the cat out the bag to them. I brought our kids with me and a picture of him, that nice boy that supported and kept secret, my double life in High School. It was more of a tribute to his memory than about me coming out to them personally. He deserved to be acknowledged for all that he meant to me.
Come to find out, many of them had their suspicions all along. While others claim they always knew. Whether they are full of shit or not ... I have no idea but it doesn't change the fact, that I always wonder how much different/better/worse it would have been, had I just been myself with everyone ?? People should be given the chance to accept you for you. Sure they are not all going to do so but you never know who will, unless you give them the option. That is what I try to instill in my children. Honestly, I hope they are all straight but they all know that whatever path their life should take, it is OK to be who you are. Do not let the world dictate to you, who you think you have to be. To which, my daughter throws those words in my face daily. LOL I tell her she needs to be less mouthy or moody, angry, loud ... she says, "but Chichi, that is who I am!!"
*cut to me trying to control myself*
Parental Guidance is always the exception :chichi:
see when I was young, i did not want to play with the boys ... similar to how a little girl would rather play with other little girls. Or the boys played with the boys. I had friends that were boys but I gravitated to playing with the girls, at a young age. As I grew and began to realize that I was suppose to be hanging with the guys, I slowly altered my behaviour. Eventually I became "one of the guys" but the whole time, I was DYING to go back and be "one of the Girls" ... That is the only choice that can be made for some ... it is either fit in or die. The only time I allowed myself to be me, was when I was with my boyfriend in private or far away from public view. Luckily he understood and loved me enought to deal with my situation. In the school environment, we were polar opposites. He was the outcast, goofy hair and clothes, very flamboyant and I was the jock. Many times my circle of friends would target him and his friends for ridicule. It was hard trying to stand up for them and not seem too sympathetic to them. The last thing I wanted was to blow my well orchestrated cover, of being a big macho jock, by sticking up for the freaks and geeks. When push came to shove though, I never let anything happen to them.
I made up for the contrived life I forced myself and Jeff to live though. At my last HighSchool Reunion, I even let the cat out the bag to them. I brought our kids with me and a picture of him, that nice boy that supported and kept secret, my double life in High School. It was more of a tribute to his memory than about me coming out to them personally. He deserved to be acknowledged for all that he meant to me.
Come to find out, many of them had their suspicions all along. While others claim they always knew. Whether they are full of shit or not ... I have no idea but it doesn't change the fact, that I always wonder how much different/better/worse it would have been, had I just been myself with everyone ?? People should be given the chance to accept you for you. Sure they are not all going to do so but you never know who will, unless you give them the option. That is what I try to instill in my children. Honestly, I hope they are all straight but they all know that whatever path their life should take, it is OK to be who you are. Do not let the world dictate to you, who you think you have to be. To which, my daughter throws those words in my face daily. LOL I tell her she needs to be less mouthy or moody, angry, loud ... she says, "but Chichi, that is who I am!!"
*cut to me trying to control myself*
Parental Guidance is always the exception :chichi: