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Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

  • Thread starter elusive moonwalker
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_en_ot/us_michael_jackson_doctor


Jackson doc ordered before judge considering delay


2 hrs 20 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – The doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death is due in court as a judge considers delaying the physician's upcoming trial.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor has ordered Dr. Conrad Murray to appear at Wednesday's hearing.

During two previous sessions, Pastor grilled Murray's defense attorneys about why they haven't turned more information over to prosecutors.

Pastor says he was "extremely distressed" by the lack of disclosure by Murray's attorneys. But he has also requested case law that will support the prosecution's request to delay the trial, scheduled to begin March 24.

Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter and is seeking a speedy trial.

The Houston-based cardiologist's attorneys have said they haven't finalized their defense, and probably won't until after the trial starts
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

I like this judge.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

JMie said:
I like this judge.
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so far so good I agree.. He seems like a no nonsense judge. I am glad he ordered Murray to come to court. Murray killed MJ recklessly and he should be there to face his court proceedings
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

murray being in the bathroom is one of his many stories. theres no evidence to support it.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

1. I really do not think even if there's conspiracy it wouldn't be written down in the publicly available court documents

2. Whatever conspiracy you can come up with has to include Murray , as a hit man. So even if that's the point he can simply point fingers and say "they made me do it".
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i kinda ment more in the case of the probate dos would be used to show some kind of conpiracy.not that actual evidence of the plan to kill mj would be in it.

and re the hit man i ment interms of murray saying someone else did it and he wasnt involved at all. like his comments re the b.guards and NOI etc. totally crazy i know im just fishing. but yeah like u say its prob more a case of being pressured and wanting the dip ect. anyone can get these docs right? u dont need a court order etc.? so the defence just got these off their own back
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

you know i suspect they just send these probate docs to send anything at all.. it's obvious they are stalling as hell and the probate docs are probably just there to muddy the waters, they dont want anything meaningful to hand over to the prosecution
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

murray being in the bathroom is one of his many stories. theres no evidence to support it.
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yeah, the bathroom story is bollocks imo, doesn't go with what anding said
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

I wonder where exactly was the bathroom? There was none in the bedroom
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Justthefacts said:
I wonder where exactly was the bathroom? There was none in the bedroom
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had to be... It's a mansion.. I would think the master bedroom had it's own bath and every other room had a bath too ( LOL.....) Mike was paying a 100,000 a month in rent to live there. It should've had plenty of bathrooms
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

StacyJ said:
had to be... It's a mansion.. I would think the master bedroom had it's own bath and every other room had a bath too ( LOL.....) Mike was paying a 100,000 a month in rent to live there. It should've had plenty of bathrooms
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On the autopsy what was in the room was listed a closet was listed what kind of tables, chairs reading glasses and such was listed everything but a bathroom was listed
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

what time is the hearing today, does anyone know?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Stacy: you were told yesterday, 2pm.:smilerolleyes:
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

sophie said:
you know i suspect they just send these probate docs to send anything at all.. it's obvious they are stalling as hell and the probate docs are probably just there to muddy the waters, they dont want anything meaningful to hand over to the prosecution
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Probably cause they don't HAVE anything meaningful!:D
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

elusive moonwalker said:
any logical reason as to why they would have the papers? only thing i can think of is some bizare conspiracy where someone else did it as the defence have aluded to and looking through the probate docs for some sort of evidence to support it
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That is what I was thinking too. They probably want to see how the money is divided to see who has a big motive, but looking at a will would be the better evidence. However, the defense is not working with a full deck, so anything is possible with them.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

bluetopez said:
Yea! But, wasn't that guess room Murray's?! He sometimes slept there, so it was Murray room MJ was found in!?:scratch:
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Earlier in 2009 it was said that he was in the room Murray used. I do not know if this was true but that is what was stated. Apparently, Murray had to stay in that room and look at Michael, which he did not do.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

isnt there a hearing today on the lawyer who worked for geragos?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

bump. no one heard anything on the above
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

I believe that comment about demerol addiction came from the hair toxicology, I believe since MJ was visiting Klien regularly for cosmetic issues it's reasonable to think he would have been injected with demerol , which is a normal procedure and the hair toxicology would show he was taking demerol over a period of time. Of course the defence will twist that and claim MJ was addicted to demerol and he was visiting Klien to get his fix and that's why MJ was "out of it", I believe that would be their argument when the prosecution raise the lorazepam issue and how MJ's health started to deteriorate once Murray was hired. Shifting the blame to Klien , the same tactic he used when Ortega and AEG complained about MJ's health. Thank God Brazil said in court there was no evidence of that, a demerol addict would not stay three days without his fix , and I'm sure when they read the hair toxicology they also raised that theory and obviously they found nothing to support it per the prosecutor comment. The defence will tell the jurors ignore the AMOUNTS , once in his life he was addicted to it and look it appears in the hair toxicology so he was addict to it"

As for Dr.White's opinion that Murray did not kill MJ, I don't think it has anything to do with demerol. I believe they are talking about the quantity of propofol MJ received that day which was really small.

Remember the expert testified at the preliminary hearing that propofol alone would not have caused MJ's death nor lorazepam ( he pointed out the lorazepam dose was much higher than 4 mg) , it was the combination of drugs propofol PLUS lorazepam that caused the death.

So yes expect them to ask the expert whether the amount of propofol found could have killed him and expect any expert to agree with such conclusion .Expect them to say "dear jurors we told you the amount was very little ...etc so he did not do it " Like they did in the preliminary hearing they IGNORED lorazepam and kept all the focus on propofol they will try to claim the case revolve around propofol ONLY .
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Please post link about "hair toxicology" results. To my knowledge, hair toxicology results have not been released to the public? Have they? And if so, where can we find that to verify?

Thanks.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Soundmind said:
I believe that comment about demerol addiction came from the hair toxicology, I believe since MJ was visiting Klien regularly for cosmetic issues it's reasonable to think he would have been injected with demerol , which is a normal procedure and the hair toxicology would show he was taking demerol over a period of time. Of course the defence will twist that and claim MJ was addicted to demerol and he was visiting Klien to get his fix and that's why MJ was "out of it", I believe that would be their argument when the prosecution raise the lorazepam issue and how MJ's health started to deteriorate once Murray was hired. Shifting the blame to Klien , the same tactic he used when Ortega and AEG complained about MJ's health. Thank God Brazil said in court there was no evidence of that, a demerol addict would not stay three days without his fix , and I'm sure when they read the hair toxicology they also raised that theory and obviously they found nothing to support it per the prosecutor comment. The defence will tell the jurors ignore the AMOUNTS , once in his life he was addicted to it and look it appears in the hair toxicology so he was addict to it"

As for Dr.White's opinion that Murray did not kill MJ, I don't think it has anything to do with demerol. I believe they are talking about the quantity of propofol MJ received that day which was really small.

Remember the expert testified at the preliminary hearing that propofol alone would not have caused MJ's death nor lorazepam ( he pointed out the lorazepam d ose was much higher than 4 mg) , it was the combination of drugs propofol PLUS lorazepam that caused the death.

So yes expect them to ask the expert whether the amount of propofol found could have killed him and expect any expert to agree with such conclusion .Expect them to say "dear jurors we told you the amount was very little ...etc so he did not do it " Like they did in the preliminary hearing they IGNORED lorazepam and kept all the focus on propofol they will try to claim the case revolve around propofol ONLY .
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I thought we already came to the conclusion per the autopsy report..that Michael had propofol toxication..and then it said benzo attribute....so yeah the Lorazepam being given WITH the propofol hindered Michael's respiration. The two together...caused hm to stop breathing which caused the cardiac arrest. (of course all the other stuff he gave Michael like the versed and all didn't help ether)
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

As for Dr.White's opinion that Murray did not kill MJ, I don't think it has anything to do with demerol. I believe they are talking about the quantity of propofol MJ received that day which was really small.

Remember the expert testified at the preliminary hearing that propofol alone would not have caused MJ's death nor lorazepam ( he pointed out the lorazepam dose was much higher than 4 mg) , it was the combination of drugs propofol PLUS lorazepam that caused the death.

So yes expect them to ask the expert whether the amount of propofol found could have killed him and expect any expert to agree with such conclusion .Expect them to say "dear jurors we told you the amount was very little ...etc so he did not do it " Like they did in the preliminary hearing they IGNORED lorazepam and kept all the focus on propofol they will try to claim the case revolve around propofol ON
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they can say that all they like but its irrelvent to the charges. hes on trial cause he gave it outside of a hospital setting for insomnia with no monitoring equipment and not watching mj.doesnt matter what amount he gave mj the fact is mjs not here cause of murrays lack of monitoring/equipment and for giving it for insomnia in the first place.thats the core of the negligence charge
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Autumn II said:
Please post link about "hair toxicology" results. To my knowledge, hair toxicology results have not been released to the public? Have they? And if so, where can we find that to verify?

Thanks.
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I would love to see results for hair tox...
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

yeah they havnt been released i presume soundmind is just presuming this is where the whole demoral thing comes from ontop of ppl like chopra running to the media talking about it. to make a claim about demoral they must have some sort of evidence mj took it.(that certainly doesnt make it an addiction but of course they will run with anything) then again who knows with this case

i thought about this whole demo case. if murray claims mj reacted bad casue he was in withdrawl how come nothing happened over the prior 6 weeks. murray claimed he was giving it every night. yet why only on the 25th did mj react. the reaction would occur every night if he had been using demoral. if u are in withdrawl it means no or very small amounts in the system. so when u are using it full blown then the reaction will be even worse. as normal it makes no sense. heck why am i even trying to pick this crap apart!
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

elusive moonwalker said:
yeah they havnt been released i presume soundmind is just presuming this is where the whole demoral thing comes from ontop of ppl like chopra running to the media talking about it. to make a claim about demoral they must have some sort of evidence mj took it.(that certainly doesnt make it an addiction but of course they will run with anything) then again who knows with this case

i thought about this whole demo case. if murray claims mj reacted bad casue he was in withdrawl how come nothing happened over the prior 6 weeks. murray claimed he was giving it every night. yet why only on the 25th did mj react. the reaction would occur every night if he had been using demoral. if u are in withdrawl it means no or very small amounts in the system. so when u are using it full blown then the reaction will be even worse. as normal it makes no sense. heck why am i even trying to pick this crap apart!
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because you want to know what the heck happened on June 25th...:hug:
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

If there is no evidence of it, then that means his hair toxicology didn't show it.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

xthunderx2 said:
I would love to see results for hair tox...
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To my knowledge, those results have never been released to the public, nor even leaked to media such as TMZ. There should be NO assumptions made here that Demerol was found in hair toxicology unless that can be verified; as we know, no narcotics were found in Michael's system re: autopsy report. Also as we now know, part of the defense strategy will be to portray Michael as an addict . . won't detail the rest here . . . we already know it.

If anyone knows where "hair toxicology" has been published online, please post URLs here. If not, personally, I think it's best if we do not discuss as if we DO know. . because we do NOT.

We also do not KNOW what treatments or procedures were being done in Klein's office. There has been NO testimony about that, and no substantiated information. We have no way of knowing if Michael was receiving demerol there, now DO we?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Autumn II said:
To my knowledge, those results have never been released to the public, nor even leaked to media such as TMZ. There should be NO assumptions made here that Demerol was found in hair toxicology unless that can be verified; as we know, no narcotics were found in Michael's system re: autopsy report. Also as we now know, part of the defense strategy will be to portray Michael as an addict . . won't detail the rest here . . . we already know it.

If anyone knows where "hair toxicology" has been published online, please post URLs here. If not, personally, I think it's best if we do not discuss as if we DO know. . because we do NOT.

We also do not KNOW what treatments or procedures were being done in Klein's office. There has been NO testimony about that, and no substantiated information. We have no way of knowing if Michael was receiving demerol there, now DO we?
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Thats what I thought to..I agree..we should not speculate about something that has not been officially announced ...nor testified to. Thats how FALSE information gets spread
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

xthunderx2 said:
Thats what I thought to..I agree..we should not speculate about something that has not been officially announced ...nor testified to. Thats how FALSE information gets spread
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Agree. Now that we are closer to the trial, tolerance for that stuff is at a minimum, or at least MINE is! This "Case" forum has some guidelines, which are to stick to FACTS as much as possible. That "demerol was found in hair toxicology" is NOT fact, nor is, "Klein was giving Michael demerol" a FACT, and the time has now passed when we should be posting such unsubstantiated speculations (if that was EVER ok? Which I think it was not). There is no need to spread FALSE information, and I hope that from now on, we can be very, very careful about that?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Guys, please lets not go into the hair toxicology. We have no evidence of it yet and lets refrain from giving more negative input for people to run with. We have enough problems telling people to refrain from calling Michael an addict without evidence. Why now bring up a toxicology report, that so far is undisclosed? We can think up new analyses or assumptions, but lets be careful about what we write. Remember in the other thread we were always cautioned that this is a public board. Let us base our assumptions on what we already know.
 
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