[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Whoever introduced MJ to propofol as a sleep aid in the beginning should be in jail. They gave him the impression it was safe which lead to his death . Murray should never practice anyone's medicine again. He knew he was wrong but didn't care. Mike needed real help for his emotional pain and other low self-esteem issues yet no one cared to do anything

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Kenny Ortega knew something wasn't right as he had worked with MJ for over 20 years. He could've done so much more in my opinion. I wonder if he feels any guilt whatsoever?

 

[MIST]

Michael didn´t have natural sleep before his last rehearsals.
He slept on strong drugs.
I think it was Dr Shafer who said Michael´s performances the last evenings had nothing to do with if he took propofol or not it was more Michaels strong mind who did it.
He shouldn´t be able to make a performance like that with those drugs he was given.

With performances like that 2 nights in a row then I can understand AEG thought Michael was OK,and thought what happened before was something temporary,maybe a flu

 

[qbee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Kenny Ortega knew something wasn't right as he had worked with MJ for over 20 years. He could've done so much more in my opinion. I wonder if he feels any guilt whatsoever?

^^ Kenny Otega has nothing to feel guilty about. There was nothign more he could have done. He was the one out of concern that reported the situation and went to a meeting with MJ and his Doctor (the expert) to discuss these health concerns. They were told by the Doctor (the expert) and MJ that they would correct and take care of his health. Thats all they could do. The doctor is the expert not them. So they rely on the doctor telling them he would take care of it and get MJ's health back on track. They saw impovement and were satisfied. There was no way of them knowing or diagnosing anything beyond that. Kenny had absolutly no authority to do any thing more than that and neither did MJ's family or any one else. MJ and DR Murray would have told his family the same thing and their hands would be tied also. Only MJ could make that decision.

 

[MIST]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Kenny Ortega knew something wasn't right as he had worked with MJ for over 20 years. He could've done so much more in my opinion. I wonder if he feels any guilt whatsoever?

What exactly could Kenny Ortega have done more?

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Kenny Ortega knew something wasn't right as he had worked with MJ for over 20 years. He could've done so much more in my opinion. I wonder if he feels any guilt whatsoever?

In my opinion, Kenny Ortega did the best he could.

He felt there was a problem and he addressed the problem, keeping in mind that Michael was a 50 year-old man. Ortega wasn't in a position to FORCE anybody to do anything they didn't want to do.

A 50 year-old man who said "I know you're worried, but I'm fine."

Then you have the 50 year-old man's personal physician, who got in Ortega's face and basically told him that "Michael is fine" and that Ortega should "mind his business and concentrate on the concert." (The nerve of that arrogant muther!)

At that point, in my opinion, Ortega's hands were tied. Not only by Michael, but by Michael's doctor.

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

and Murray was such a liar, I'm not sure what Michael was told about his own health

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Whoever introduced MJ to propofol as a sleep aid in the beginning should be in jail. They gave him the impression it was safe which lead to his death .

Propofol IS safe when used properly, with the right equipment and if the patient is monitored. It is not a sleep aid, though. It was Murray who told Michael he would be safe.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

and Murray was such a liar, I'm not sure what Michael was told about his own health

Exactly, the ONE person in the room who should have sided with Kenny Ortega, was of course Conrad Murray, the so-called doctor. Only problem with that, was the so-called doctor was the one who was making Michael sick.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Poor Michael was so sick that he thought Murray was actually helping him when in reality he was killing him. Why would Michael trust someone with his life like that?

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Poor Michael was so sick that he thought Murray was actually helping him when in reality he was killing him. Why would Michael trust someone with his life like that?

Because Murray was a doctor, and had been his doctor for some time. If you have followed the trial,then you know that Murray was good with people, a lot of people trusted him.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Poor Michael was so sick that he thought Murray was actually helping him when in reality he was killing him. Why would Michael trust someone with his life like that?

You know that arrogant Murray "most likely" filled Michael's head with stories about how he saved all of the poor, old, needy, unhealthy men and women who came into his various clinics. How he brought them back from the brink of death with his magic hands. How those poor old folks had nothing, but "I, Doctor Conrad Murray" took them all and made them well.

I can just see Murray pumping himself up, so he would look like some miracle worker in Michael's eyes.

In my opinion, when you are talking about a person like Michael, and using words like, "Poor" and "Old" and "Helping." Those types of words were right up Michael's alley. He probably thought he and the "doctor" were kindred spirits, out doing good and helping the less fortunate.

Michael was duped by that creep!

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

exactly, Big Apple

from Ivy's summary

-

Paris saying Michael once told her to give money to Murray but he refused. Murray refusing to take money from Michael.

 

[MIST]

I think it wasn´t only words.
I think Murray helped Michael with Michael´s prostate problems, Murray described medicin and probably told Michael about it.
Michael had problems with his feet and Murray got a pedicurist for him.
I assume Michael thought Murray cared about him then

 

[athina_livadi]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Murray had been negligent with other patients apart from Michael. If you followed the trial you would realize that he did more than good deeds. Not to mention that his personnel was not medically educated at all and worked voluntarily. Murray has so much to answer for and to be accused of. He was never a good doctor but a scum and of course a murderer.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Because Murray was a doctor, and had been his doctor for some time. If you have followed the trial,then you know that Murray was good with people, a lot of people trusted him.

When I get to heaven I will ask him. And remember Michael was not a child

 

[CherubimII]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael's liver was strong, there was no scar tissue, if Michael were a heavy duty drug user, whether street drugs or painkillers, his liver would not have been strong, he would've needed a liver transplant to carry on in life.

About the time Michael died, Acetaminophen was in the News about causing so much liver damage that people were dying from taking too much Acetaminophen, as it is in so many products, i.e. cough syrup, headache medicine, sleep products, etc.

Steve Jobs, who was the owner of Apple Inc, had a liver transplant before he died. If Michael Jackson's liver was needed, at the time of his death, Steve Jobs could have used Michael's in his liver transplant. So...why do people continue saying Michael had a heavy duty drug use through the decades? He died from Murray being negligent with the Propofol usage (including the use of lidocaine in the IV of administering the Propofol drip to Michael's vein during the night- highly toxic, if you want to know why Michael seemed out of sorts at times near the time of his death).

Too much tomfoolery!

Well said. I agree with you. :bow:

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

When I get to heaven I will ask him. And remember Michael was not a child

Why are you being sarcastic ? Where did I say he was a child ?

 

[qbee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Hey lets try and get back on topic Which is The AEG lawsuite no reason to get sarcastic or testy with each other. It not necessary to do that when discussing our views. Lets try to be nicer to each other. This is hard on all of us

We all know Murray killed Michael. We know Michael wanted AEG to hire him for the concert. Murray recieved the pending contact on the 24th which hadnt been signed or finalized yet. It seems evident Michael trusted Murray with his life enough to allow him to administer propoful to him for weeks. Beyond that we dont know his personal feelings.

To the Topic of AEG and the accusations. Wether Randy Phillips got into it with Michael or had harsh words with him at times over his responsibilities doesnt factor in of wether they should be held resposible for his death. We dont know whyMJ was upset there are conflicting stories. Randy Phillps flipped out and lost his temper. Im not condoning that but .. It happens. There was a lot at stake here for Both Michael and AEG. Apparently they worked it out that day becuase MJ did appear to make his announcement.

AEG didnt know what MJ and the Doctor were doing. They just saw concerning symptoms in Michael. They didnt know the cause or what was wrong. and they didnt ignore it. They set up a meeting to addressed MJ and his DR. Murray abouthis health. They were told it wasnt serious and would be taken care of. Muuray even told KO not to try and play doctor amd leave the doctoring to him. So when MJ returned after the weekend They saw a great improvment. The rehearsals went great . they all congratulated each other made plans to meet the next day to rehears with the New Dirty Dian props . They said there good byes and I love you's .. all seemed well.

Im sure if they saw more symptons or concering actions from MJ in the future they would have adressed it again. but at that time all seemed Ok. There is no one could forsee the future or know what Murray would do on the night of June 25th. I dont know myself what more they could have done in this situation. They put it in the hands of licensed Doctor. They had no reason not to trust Murray at that time. There really wasnt much more they could do but rely on Michaels own doctor.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

That actually was not meant for you I quoted you by mistake sorry

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

@ justthefacts, OK, no problem, thanks

 

[Vici]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

he doctors testified in trial said if Murray was watching Michael, a simple chin lifting or Ambu bag to help michael breath, Michael would still be here today.

And this is what hurts the most A simple chin lifting for god sake. MJ had to go through so much and this is how his life ended, its not fair.. just a simple chin lift and he would still be here. I still cant understand nor accept the way he left this world.

 

[jamba]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^^^ Yes we know know what happened but AEG would not know what was causing the problems. They seen MJ was out of sorts a few days and KO reported it and was concerned by Michael actions and symptoms. They suspected drugs but did not know for sure what was causing the probs. All AEG could do was recommed MJ to get help. They have no authority to force MJ to a Dr or physciatrist. They did tell MJ get your health back on track or the show cant go on. They have no authority to force Michael to do that. Not even family can do that. It is only Michael's decision. He and his DR said they would correct and take care of it.

AEG are not medical experts, Dr Murray was. So all they can do is rely on what the Doctor and MJ told them at that time. They seen improvement and thought the prob was taken care of. I feel it is unreasonable to expect them to know or do anything beyond that. They had no knowledge of what was going on behind closed doors.

Murray is not a psychiatrist, and Kenny's email recommended the an expert psychiatrist be consulted. Here is from the trial coverage:

"Ortega, the first witness called by the prosecution, said that on June 19, 2009, less than a week before Jackson was found dead from a drug overdose, Jackson arrived at rehearsal unwell.

"My friend wasn't right," Ortega said of Jackson. "There was something going on that was deeply troubling me."

Ortega said Jackson appeared lost and incoherent. He rubbed Jackson's chilled feet and fed him food when it was clear he hadn't eaten.

Ortega was so disturbed by Jackson's state that he sent an email to Randy Phillips of AEG Live, the concert promoter, saying that "real emotional stuff" was going on and that "everything in me says that Jackson should be psychologically evaluated."

I am saying that it would have been wise if the tour powers that be had gone this route and not just accepted Murray and Michael's assurances but taken it another step and strongly recommended the psychiatric expert evaluation/consultation. I don't know if they could have forced it, but they could surely have made more of an effort to take Kenny's email and feedback seriously instead of just accepting the words of Murray, someone they did not 'check out' sufficiently. Accepting Murray as the final and complete 'expert' on Michael's health may have been legally ok but in my opinion, it was not ok, not smart or wise in terms of really taking care of Michael or even their own best interests. If the star performer shows up in such bad shape as Kenny described, just accepting an 'Oh, it's nothing" is not enough and just acting like it was not important enough to take it seriously. It happened on the 19th of June and he died the 25th. It was the big warning signal IMO.

 

[bluetopez]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

A simple chin lift was obviously to much to ask from a Dr. of 20 yrs that couldn't even do CPR properly! Incredibly Unbelievable! And I agree with u Jamba!

 

[marebear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

And this is what hurts the most A simple chin lifting for god sake. MJ had to go through so much and this is how his life ended, its not fair.. just a simple chin lift and he would still be here. I still cant understand nor accept the way he left this world.

That made me cry during the trial. I had no idea that's all it would have taken to help Michael and he would still be here. It's unreal. I still don't understand.

 

[8701girl]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

A simple chin lift was obviously to much to ask from a Dr. of 20 yrs that couldn't even do CPR properly! Incredibly Unbelievable! And I agree with u Jamba!

Thats the most upsetting thing bout june 25 2009, just a simple little action like that could 'ved saved michael's life

 

[mdiegee210]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

why I think aeg didn't do any other follow up is because of the insurance policy. Because Miachael had a break down with them and all they did was scream at him and send him out to announce the tour. I think aeg knew Michael had issues, to get Michael medical help and what the doctors might fine would cancel the insurance policy. so they relied on murray keep it quiet.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Again Michael let me say this Michael was 50 not 6

 

[qbee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Murray is not a psychiatrist, and Kenny's email recommended the an expert psychiatrist be consulted. Here is from the trial coverage:

"Ortega, the first witness called by the prosecution, said that on June 19, 2009, less than a week before Jackson was found dead from a drug overdose, Jackson arrived at rehearsal unwell.

"My friend wasn't right," Ortega said of Jackson. "There was something going on that was deeply troubling me."

Ortega said Jackson appeared lost and incoherent. He rubbed Jackson's chilled feet and fed him food when it was clear he hadn't eaten.

Ortega was so disturbed by Jackson's state that he sent an email to Randy Phillips of AEG Live, the concert promoter, saying that "real emotional stuff" was going on and that "everything in me says that Jackson should be psychologically evaluated."

I am saying that it would have been wise if the tour powers that be had gone this route and not just accepted Murray and Michael's assurances but taken it another step and strongly recommended the psychiatric expert evaluation/consultation. I don't know if they could have forced it, but they could surely have made more of an effort to take Kenny's email and feedback seriously instead of just accepting the words of Murray, someone they did not 'check out' sufficiently. Accepting Murray as the final and complete 'expert' on Michael's health may have been legally ok but in my opinion, it was not ok, not smart or wise in terms of really taking care of Michael or even their own best interests. If the star performer shows up in such bad shape as Kenny described, just accepting an 'Oh, it's nothing" is not enough and just acting like it was not important enough to take it seriously. It happened on the 19th of June and he died the 25th. It was the big warning signal IMO.

I do respect you opinion Jamba. I see your point and undnerstand maybe they could have done more. but even if they would have talked MJ into into making an appointment to recieve an evaluation or psychological help. that wouldn't necessarily stop the events of June 25th. It wouldnt stop Murray from adminsiering MJ propoful that night. Im sure if after this meeting AEG saw MJ exhibiting further symptoms that caused them concern most likely they would have pressured MJ to getting other help beyond Murray. but Sadly they wouldn't have that chance. I guess they did what they felt right was at the time. They certainly didnt mean MJ any harm, I believe they were trying to work with Michael on this and allow him to have his dignity to get his health back on track with the help of his doctor. We can always look back in hind sight and say what we think others should have have done. We just want what was best for MJ. But Im not sure that even if they did what you suggest would have happened in time enough to stop his death at the hands of Murray.

why I think aeg didn't do any other follow up is because of the insurance policy. Because Miachael had a break down with them and all they did was scream at him and send him out to announce the tour. aeg knew Michael had issues, to get Michael medical help and what the doctors might fine would cancel the insurance policy. so they relied on murray keep it quiet.

Thats very possible too. Beyond being concerned over his health they also would be concerned over the insurance regarding his health. but I would say it would be BOTH Michael and AEG that didnt want to have the insurance rejected over his health. They both wanted the show to go on. Michael was a grown man. He knew what was going on. He also made his own decisions and hid what was really going on to help him sleep from AEG and those around him. But He was to have another physical for the insurance when they reached London and not by Murray. Michael knew very well they would not detect or even look for propoful. He most likely thought he would have his health concerns under control and some weight back on by then. Becuase the hardest work would have already been done. Im sure AEG was hopingand counting on that too . They BOTH has a lot at stake here.

 

[Tygger]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Questions please: what is Gongaware's role on TII tour? Was it the same role he had on previous tours with Michael? Did he interact with doctors on Michael's previous tours?

Also, AEG wants a dismissal based on 1st, 2nd, 5th cause of actions? How many actions are there and are they not eligible for dismissal on actions not mentioned?