[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Also, AEG wants a dismissal based on 1st, 2nd, 5th cause of actions? How many actions are there and are they not eligible for dismissal on actions not mentioned?

There were 5 causes of auction

1st - Breach of Contract
2nd - Negligent Hiring, supervising
3rd - Fraud
4th - Emotional Distress (of Prince)
5th - Respondeat Superior

However the judge had already dismissed 3rd and 4th causes on demurrer (objection), so that leaves 1st, 2nd and 5th cause of action so AEG is trying to dismiss everything.

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Jamba, I agree with most of what you say, but I think that imposing a psychological evaluation (or any other medical exam) on someone who doesn't want it is tough. That's something I wouldn't agree to do.

Kenny Ortega did the right thing, but maybe instead of having a meeting they should have sent someone whom Michael trusted to talk with him alone, without Murray, to convince him to take medical tests. But that's easy to say now, did they have any reason to suspect Murray at that time ? I have the feeling they suspected Klein rather than Murray.

I often read here that Michael was 50, and made his own decisions. I agree with this a 100%, but he made them based on wrong or no information. Was he aware that Murray was leaving him alone while under propofol ? No, obviously not. Was he aware that propofol was not properly given ? No, obviously not. How long is that list of things he was not aware of, or misinformed about? We'll never know. Remember, he was not a doctor and like most of us, he had to rely on what the doctor said.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Re rehab in 93 that was to do with painkillers nothing to do with sleep meds.

this why i hate this lawsuit. its bringing everything back up and personally i think ppl are thinking to much interms of ortega. the mj being in a state was at one rehearsal. it wasnt going on for dozens of them.imo it was the benzos etc that caused it but as shaffer said it vould have been many things. even more so when ortega wasnt aware of what murray was doing. so mj was in a state on one occassion and ortega told his concerns. but there was a meeting and mj never appeared like that again. so that was it. nothing more was done because it was a one off.

of course murray lied to mj. like mj would allow him to carry on if he knew how reckless he would be. maybe murry told mj dont worry about the side effects its normal. we will never know what he said to mj but one thing we know is murray never told mj how negligent he would be in his care as of course if mj knew murray would be gone. he hired a dr to make sure everything was safe. remember lees words. mj said my drs told me its safe aslong as im minitored.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael obviously trusted Murray. I really wish MJ had recorded what Murray was doing to him. Mike would've been able to see how Murray was leaving him unattended more than likely for nights at a time. It is just so sad that Mike trusted this maniac. If Mike was going to do the propofol he really should've insisted on an anesthesiologist like Adams. Leaving Murray in charge was unfortunately a death sentence.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Jamba, I agree with most of what you say, but I think that imposing a psychological evaluation (or any other medical exam) on someone who doesn't want it is tough. That's something I wouldn't agree to do.

Kenny Ortega did the right thing, but maybe instead of having a meeting they should have sent someone whom Michael trusted to talk with him alone, without Murray, to convince him to take medical tests. But that's easy to say now, did they have any reason to suspect Murray at that time ? I have the feeling they suspected Klein rather than Murray.

I often read here that Michael was 50, and made his own decisions. I agree with this a 100%, but he made them based on wrong or no information. Was he aware that Murray was leaving him alone while under propofol ? No, obviously not. Was he aware that propofol was not properly given ? No, obviously not. How long is that list of things he was not aware of, or misinformed about? We'll never know. Remember, he was not a doctor and like most of us, he had to rely on what the doctor said.

The bolded part of your post...sums it up perfectly. There is NOTHING else to say ..NOTHING else to discuss. Michael had NO idea if he did he would STILL be here today. Murray deceived Michael and then Murray killed Michael. Thank You for this EXCELLENT post!!!

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

The bolded part of your post...sums it up perfectly. There is NOTHING else to say ..NOTHING else to discuss. Michael had NO idea if he did he would STILL be here today. Murray deceived Michael and then Murray killed Michael. Thank You for this EXCELLENT post!!!

In my opinion, Michael DID have an idea (some what) and it came from Nurse Lee (as per her sworn testimony).

She said that she explained the entire thing to Michael and expressed her concern directly to him. It's not like she said "tell Michael I said yada, yada, yada," she (per her testimony) explained everything to him face-to-face. She even went so far as to go home and research it further, so that she was accurate in her assessment. I believe she even said that she brought along a medical handbook to show Michael, which explained everything she was about to share with him.

Funny thing is that Michael called Nurse Lee to his home, because he wasn't feeling well. He trusted her enough to call her at that point, but, I guess, he didn't trust her enough to take heed of her warnings.

Bottomline, it would appear that he trusted Murray more then he trusted Nurse Lee.

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Parents have installed video cameras to record the actions of the Nanny to watch what was going on with their child and found out some horrible things.

Perhaps Michael could've done this, but Michael was desperate. Michael could have decided, made the decision to file bankruptcy, but he didn't want to lose his assets and that's why he choose to do the Concerts and these would have gone Worldwide and perhaps a residency could have happened at the Ceasar's Forum in Las Vegas, as this property is owned by AEG.

The checks and balances were not in place, because Michael should have installed a video cam to record Murray's actions to make sure Murray was doing the right thing. Michael understood that he had to work his tail off, because he was still skittish about the public's perception of him.

Look at how he refused to go to the Emergency Room when he was having those weird symptoms, of hot and cold, because he was probably terrified about the bad publicity. After all, the fans were beyond pissed about the first 4 dates being changed. Apparently when you buy Airline tickets at a discounted rate, there is no financial refund. This seemed to apply to hotel rates, too. AEG and/or Michael couldn't refund airline tickets and/or hotel fees back to the fans who had already purchased these items in anticipation of going the first 4 dates of the London Shows!

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

because Michael should have installed a video cam to record Murray's actions to make sure Murray was doing the right thing.

I don't think Michael would have EVER considered anything like that. Lord Almighty, just think what would have happened if those images fell into the wrong hands. It would have been a million times worse then Murray's iPhone recording.

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I was wondering what you feel was was wrong in Murray using lidocaine? You seem to think that is unusual and shouldn't be used. When in fact Lidocaine is the most common med used by anesthesiologists for the pain associated with a bolus drip. It has a numbing effect to stop the burning sensation. It wasn't unusual for Murry to use it. It is a common practice and the medication wasn't associated with his death. There wasnt any toxicity found in his system from it. I dont think it played a role in his death based on the evidence. but I suppose it could have have caused MJs earlier symptons if it was not admisitered properly.

He stopped breathing under sedation of Propofol and lorazapam which is also very common to happen in patients. But usually an anethesilologit is present to restore breathing quickly with no consequence. Sadly MJ didn't have any competent physician present to do that for him. being Murray left the room. and his patient unatended.

Had Murray been present to monitor and restore Michael's breathing he could be alive and WELL today.

It is the proper procedure to administer lidocaine with propofol for exactly what you've mentioned, a 50/50 combination. It's the overuse of lidocaine that builds up in the system that I feel was causing Michael's problems 'of being out of sorts.' Too much of anything will make a person sick (a Biblical reference)!

Symptoms of overdose may include:
lightheadedness

nervousness

inappropriate happiness

confusion

dizziness

drowsiness

ringing in the ears

blurred or double vision

vomiting

feeling hot, cold, or numb

twitching or shaking that you cannot control

seizures

loss of consciousness

slow heartbeat
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a603026.html

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I don't think Michael would have EVER considered anything like that. Lord Almighty, just think what would have happened if those images fell into the wrong hands. It would have been a million times worse then Murray's iPhone recording.

It was a matter of checks and balances, much to the horror of concerned parents who were watching their children. Ouch!

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Murray didn't know what the heck he was doing and he was slowly killing MJ. I don't even think Murray cared about MJ's 'symptons'. All he cared about was the cash. I really wish Cherilyn Lee would've first reported MJ's interest in sleep aids to someone who could help. When Cherilyn was told by MJ that 'other' doctors had given him propofol she should've went to the medical boards right then and there and say that she believed that MJ was receiving dangerous medical treatments.

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael obviously trusted Murray. I really wish MJ had recorded what Murray was doing to him. Mike would've been able to see how Murray was leaving him unattended more than likely for nights at a time. It is just so sad that Mike trusted this maniac. If Mike was going to do the propofol he really should've insisted on an anesthesiologist like Adams. Leaving Murray in charge was unfortunately a death sentence.

I completely agree with you, as parents have recorded what care givers have done abusively to their children when the care givers think know one is watching them!

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Clearly Michael trusted Murray, I mean he really trusted him. Michael allowed Murray to render him unconscious and Michael trusted that during that time Murray wasn't being nosey, stealing from Michael, or taking pictures! If he trusted him on that level he would surely be very trusting on his medical care and advice given by Murray.

There is a lot that can be said about hindsight, that so and so should have gotten Michael help, firstly Michael would have to have been open to that help and he would have had to turn his back on someone he appeared to trust implicitly.

Although clearly Murray's medical care was having some impact of Michael day to day the night we lost him was purely down to
Murray's unprofessional and uncaring actions.

The other person (whether it was Murray or someone earlier) who is responsible for Michael's death was the person who told Michael that he could use this drug so long as he was monitored.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Clearly Michael trusted Murray, I mean he really trusted him. Michael allowed Murray to render him unconscious and Michael trusted that during that time Murray wasn't being nosey, stealing from Michael, or taking pictures! If he trusted him on that level he would surely be very trusting on his medical care and advice given by Murray.

There is a lot that can be said about hindsight, that so and so should have gotten Michael help, firstly Michael would have to have been open to that help and he would have had to turn his back on someone he appeared to trust implicitly.

Although clearly Murray's medical care was having some impact of Michael day to day the night we lost him was purely down to
Murray's unprofessional and uncaring actions.

The other person (whether it was Murray or someone earlier) who is responsible for Michael's death was the person who told Michael that he could use this drug so long as he was monitored.

true.. more than likely Ratner, the drugged out former anesthesiologist, told him that. Mike definitely needed a stronger support system around him and folks that cared. It's so sad that he had to leave the way he did trying to seek rest and sleep from a doctor. Where was his family? where was his mother? Mike was being put into a coma nightly for months according to Murray yet no one cared or questioned anything? Do you all think Katherine feels any guilt for not being there for her son?

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Clearly Michael trusted Murray, I mean he really trusted him. Michael allowed Murray to render him unconscious and Michael trusted that during that time Murray wasn't being nosey, stealing from Michael, or taking pictures! If he trusted him on that level he would surely be very trusting on his medical care and advice given by Murray.

True dat!

The MAJORITY of folks in Michael's life didn't even have access to his living quarters.

But along with Michael's 3-children, Murray had full access, to come and go as he pleased. That's trust to the tenth degree, in my opinion.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Mike was being put into a coma nightly for months according to Murray yet no one cared or questioned anything?

Nurse Lee cared and took action. Sadly her caring and actions had no effect.

It was a toss up: Nurse Lee Or Conrad Murray. Michael chose Murray.

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

true.. more than likely Ratner, the drugged out former anesthesiologist, told him that. Mike definitely needed a stronger support system around him and folks that cared. It's so sad that he had to leave the way he did trying to seek rest and sleep from a doctor. Where was his family? where was his mother? Mike was being put into a coma nightly for months according to Murray yet no one cared or questioned anything? Do you all think Katherine feels any guilt for not being there for her son?

Yes I think it was most likely Ratner who brought about this 'miracle' sleep cure at a time when Michael was very vulnerable and stressed out.

It is clear that Michael kept his family at arms length but I don't think we know enough to really pass judgement on where they were in '09. I'm not a J family fan but I can't judge them on this subject.

As far as I'm concerned the only people who knew that Murray was putting Michael in an induced coma were Murray and Michael, I doubt if anyone else would have even dreamt it up..... unless they had prior knowledge.

Nurse Lee cared and took action. Sadly her caring and actions had no effect.

It was a toss up: Nurse Lee Or Conrad Murray. Michael chose Murray.

Yes Michael chose the doctor, he has the higher qualification I guess. So sad

 

[CherubimII]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

People on this planet have a history of treating Angels,
like Michael Jackson, cruelly.
I believe that's why we have been isolated in the universe.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Why would mj feel the need to film murray. if he had the feeling that he needed to be filmed u think mj would have him doing what he did. Of course he wouldnt. he obviously trusted murray totally. and why wouldnt he? There was nothing to show he wasnt to be trusted at that time. as mj said to lee my drs told me its safe aslong as im monitored.

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Well he tried with Nurse Lee and her more natural methods first, and tried for 3 months, but it didn't work, so he turned to Murray. I think he felt he had to, since nothing was working.

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Why would mj feel the need to film murray. if he had the feeling that he needed to be filmed u think mj would have him doing what he did. Of course he wouldnt. he obviously trusted murray totally. and why wouldnt he? There was nothing to show he wasnt to be trusted at that time. as mj said to lee my drs told me its safe aslong as im monitored.

It would've been a protection for Michael, as it proved to be a protection for the children being abused by their caregivers.

Alas...all we have is hindsight and a lawsuit as to whether AEG Live should be held accountable for Murray's actions. There is no proof that AEG Live, Randy Phillips or Paul Gongaware, aided and abbeted Murray in making Michael work.

This would have been brought out in the Criminal Trail, where Murray was found guilty in a Court of Law for his negligence in the cause and effect of Michael Jackson's death, with a sentence of 4 years. That is not justice!

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

It would've been a protection for Michael, as it proved to be a protection for the children being abused by their caregivers.

Alas...all we have is hindsight and a lawsuit as to whether AEG Live should be held accountable for Murray's actions. There is no proof that AEG Live, Randy Phillips or Paul Gongaware, aided and abbeted Murray in making Michael work.

This would have been brought out in the Criminal Trail, where Murray was found guilty in a Court of Law for his negligence in the cause and effect of Michael Jackson's death, with a sentence of 4 years. That is not justice!

He wouldn't have felt the need to film Murray because he trusted him, as said earlier, he trusted him enough to put him in a coma, he trusted that Murray cared enough about him to look after him in that coma.

And no it is most certainly not justice.

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

It would've been a protection for Michael, as it proved to be a protection for the children being abused by their caregivers.

Alas...all we have is hindsight and a lawsuit as to whether AEG Live should be held accountable for Murray's actions. There is no proof that AEG Live, Randy Phillips or Paul Gongaware, aided and abbeted Murray in making Michael work.

This would have been brought out in the Criminal Trail, where Murray was found guilty in a Court of Law for his negligence in the cause and effect of Michael Jackson's death, with a sentence of 4 years. That is not justice!

I don't know if you meant to post the above twice but my point was that Michael would not feel the need to film or spy on Murray because he clearly trusted him, he wouldn't have felt the need to be protect himself. But yes although it would have helped the trial I wouldn't have wanted to have seen it and I don't think it would have changed the outcome.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Like i said if mj felt the need to film him then i very much doubt he would have him in the house doing what he did. thats before u get into all the security issues.Why would mj feel the need to to film someone he obviously trusted and he had no reason not to trust him. u have to look at things from a perspective of being back then not looking back now with hindsight. theres so much we dont know and never will know so imo theres really no point going around in circles with ifs and buts

 

[qbee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael didnt have cameras in his bedroom in order to protect his privacy. Not even at neverland. I also dont think he would ever film Murray sedating him either. If That ever got in the wrong hands it could cause him unwanted scruteny. Im sure He learned from his experience at Neverland that nothing is sacred and everything could be confiscated from his home and used against him. That experience devastated him and cause him to leave his home never to return

 

[The Brown Gangsta]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Murray seemed to be a very personable and charming doctor (note the parade of patients insisting that he was a great guy during the trial). A lot of people trusted him, he just happened to get lazy and took 1 too many shortcuts.

I wouldn't have gone to an emergency room if I had what I believed to be a competent physician in my home telling me that he could get things under control. With the massive amount of stress he was under (including harsh critism from his own fans), I can understand the desperation to get some sleep any way he could. Its so easy to say what someone else should have done with their life, especially in hindsight.

Michael was also entitled to some patient privacy, he didn't need to announce his every medical procedure to everybody that was involved in the tour (of course insurance,etc would need to know). People like Kenny Ortega, other musicians, other AEG workers shouldn't have known his private medical buisness unless he decided to tell them, HIPAA laws are strictly enforced to protect the patient's privacy in these matters.

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I don't know if you meant to post the above twice but my point was that Michael would not feel the need to film or spy on Murray because he clearly trusted him, he wouldn't have felt the need to be protect himself. But yes although it would have helped the trial I wouldn't have wanted to have seen it and I don't think it would have changed the outcome.

...thanks for your input into the discussion!

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael didnt have cameras in his bedroom in order to protect his privacy. Not even at neverland. I also dont think he would ever film Murray sedating him either. If That ever got in the wrong hands it could cause him unwanted scruteny. Im sure He learned from his experience at Neverland that nothing is sacred and everything could be confiscated from his home and used against him. That experience devastated him and cause him to leave his home never to return

I was using a Scenario on a checks and balance approach to a what if. It seems nothing!

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

...thanks for your input into the discussion!

You're welcome?

For some reason your post was repeated once in bolded then again after I had responded, that's the only reason I repeated my point.

 

[jamba]

First, regarding his privacy re medical matters, OMG his privacy has been so violated for so long, starting back in the 1993 fiasco. And I do believe the rehab in London was for BOTH painkillers and sleep-aids. Michael had a well-known long-lasting issue of dependency on painkillers and sleep-aids, so that was nothing new to anyone, including AEG.

Going back to K. Ortega's email to Randy Phillips. The event where Michael showed up on June 19th in a terrible shape was so shocking to KO that he wrote the email to RP expressing massive concern. Here is the full email:

Kenneth Ortega
o: Randy Randy Phillips
Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:04 AM
I will do whatever I can to be of help with this situation. If you need me to come to the house, just give me a call in the morning. My concern is, now that we’ve brought the Doctor in to the fold and have played the tough love, now or never card, is that the Artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff. He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling, and obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get him back in the light, it’s going to take a strong Therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing. I was told by our Choreographer that during the Artists costume fitting with his Designer tonight they noticed he’s lost more weight. As far as I can tell, there is no one taking responsibility (caring for) for him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Tonight I was feeding him, wrapping him in blankets to warm his chills, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor. There were four security guards outside his door, but no one offering him a cup of hot tea. Finally, it’s important for everyone to know, I believe he really wants this. It would shatter him, break his heart if we pulled the plug. He terribly frightened it’s all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if I was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence. It broke my heart. He was like a lost boy. There still may be a chance he can rise to the occasion if we get him the help he needs.
Sincerely,
Kenny

The response was to have a meeting on the 20th of June at Michael's home with KO, RP, CM, Dileo. Murray as we know told them Michael was fine and Michael said the same. However, if you look at KO's description of Michael's state, it is serious and required a real intervention IMO. KO says Michael needs "immediate physical nurturing." I think there were some days off from rehearsals after that meeting. On the 21st Michael has his aides call Nurse Lee about the hot and cold sensations. On the nights of the 22nd-23rd and 23rd-24th he does not have the propofol to sleep, b/c CM decided to 'wean him off of it" thinking he had become addicted. Duh! Instead he gave him (I think) Valium and lorazepam to sleep and it worked. Michael had 2 great rehearsals. Then on the night 24th-25th Murray starts with the same substitutes for the propofol but they don't work this time, so he adds the propofol (a deadly combination of drugs) and leaves the room.

Yes, I know Michael was desperate for sleep and under enormous pressure on a lot of levels, and trusting of Murray, and the whole thing is so tragically sad. I am glad Murray was convicted although it should have been a longer sentence. If AEG can be found guilty in this civil case, it seems the charge of failing to supervise Murray would be the one to stick. However, since the contract was not signed and Murray was not paid, I am not sure how far that will go or what the judge will rule re dismissal.

To me it is strange that they were going to pay Murray so much per month--plus expenses--esp. without checking him out further. Were they negligent? I don't know about the legality issue, but given the seriousness of what Ortega wrote, IMO they needed to do more to protect Michael and their own investment in him than the meeting on the 20th and going with Murray and Michael's assurances.