[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

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Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Murrays a total lose cannon imo. He could take the fifth or cone out with crazy stuff. whether he has any credibility to jurrors if he gets to the stand is another thing

I have to ask the question is there a connection between Thome and Murray? Or Thome-All good-Murray? Just curious
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

How 'you mean NOT Murray... :blink:
The list has just grown into Murray and Klein... :beee:

How HEAVY is this trial exactly if its a 'civil' suit only meant for the 'dirty cash' ?
Didn't we go through all the motions with the Murray trial? :smilerolleyes:


While the trial is about hiring Murray, I was responding specifically to what you said about your boss stopping who he/she thought to be a bad doctor. AEG tried to stopp MJ from seeing Klien who they thought was the bad doctor, although Klien was not on their payroll, but who MJ was also seeing.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

While the trial is about hiring Murray, I was responding specifically to what you said about your boss stopping who he/she thought to be a bad doctor. AEG tried to stopp MJ from seeing Klien who they thought was the bad doctor, although Klien was not on their payroll, but who MJ was also seeing.

Okay :blush: got confused there, sowwy :doh:
Well, I do wanna 'hear' what Murray has to say though... Not that I care about Flousy :beee: I also know, it's not gonna be very 'educational' but then again if you throw around accusations, you have to come up with a 'reliable' source too, right?
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Murray is a wild card in this trial.

Katherine Jackson's lawsuit is based on the premise that Murray's negligence caused Michael's death and therefore AEG shares liability as well as they hired Murray.

Murray has been denying his role and negligence for ever. Given that he has an appeal and wants to get back his medical license, I don't see him admitting negligence. It's also probable that AEG go with that and say "no negligence from Murray equals to no negligence at AEG's part". That will open the doors to the medical testimony about Michael's death and again trying to pinpoint the responsibility to Murray by Katherine's side.

During his documentary Murray mentioned not so nice comments from Phillips about Michael's finances, he can repeat that and can say that AEG was pressuring Michael. However the judge already dismissed the claims.

The one thing we don't know is what will Murray say when he's asked about the knowledge of AEG. Would he say "yeah they knew what was going on" or say "no they had no idea"? He can make or break the case for either side.



what conspiracy? all of that is thrown out.

His lawyer recommends he take the 5th--I agree and hope he does. That would be the best route for him given all that he is facing if he opens his mouth. And frankly, I can't stand to even look at him let alone listen to his lying BS.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Jamba yes, but what I read was that he always had it, but it became worse when he was in intense creative activity and touring. He spoke about how after a show he couldn't sleep because of the adrenaline. Of course, stress simple made it worse, the allegations made it worse, and his siblings pressuring him made it worse. One of his bodyguards said that late in the night Michael would be playing on the piano and singing new songs. Katherine also said that when he lived at home she would hear him shout out something in the night, as a new tune came to his mind, so insomnia is not a new thing for Michael & existed before AEG came into his life.

I remember reading that a bodyguard said late in the night Michael would be playing on the piano and singing new made up songs. I agree about the good partner bit.

I think, just my opinion, that the insomnia was related to much more than creative adrenalin, not to minimize that the latter is a source but not the only one. I believe he had PTSD from his childhood pain. Child abuse scrambles your mind and creates lots of deep wounds that need a long time to heal (if you're lucky). One of the known results of PTSD is insomnia. Also every time a wound occurred in his adult life it could cause the initial wounds to recycle, resurface--like replaying the past traumas. I think of this in events like the humiliating violation of the body search, which resembled what happened to him as a child.

Michael was one powerfully strong dude, but everyone has limits to how much they can handle. He was a rock and it took mighty forces to bring him down, but what I admire so much and love so much is he never gave up!!!!
 
Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Nope, he certainly didn't receive anything that even remotely deserves the term 'appropriate treatment'. Anemia and chronic bronchitis can be managed - I've got both.
I'm also currently scheduled for a sleep study since I currently require medication for something that resembles a major sleep disorder, to even stay awake. BUT - I have a physician that CARES.

The 'care' Michael received has me weeping. He tried with Nurse Lee but no amount of IV cocktails is gonna going to replace the meds used conventionally - and that have been studied for a long time.
The fact that he had to combat excessive daytime sleepiness both from anemia and a sleeping disorder - I can't even put into words how much I feel for him. I seriously admire him for remembering a choreography - I need a self addressed letter so I remember my address!
Michael needed a real family physician who knows how to read blood results AND WHO KNOWS HOW TO FIND YOU A SPECIALIST- and who has the capable office to find you the best hematologist, pulmonologist and sleep center in town. A Dulera inhaler for 50 bucks and I felt close to reborn.

And believe me, there's a lot more that can be done in sleep centers than just the annoying talk of "sleep hygiene". Not to mention that an undiagnosed sleep disorder can cause massive, stumbling depression in and of itself. And then of course take a vitiligo patient who is rarely exposed to sunlight - man, I don't even wanna imagine.


Unless people have experienced that just one or two of these conditions can cause massive depression in addition...
It is often assumed that depression is largely a result of emotional trauma. In Michael's case several physical conditions are known to cause depression as well. Untreated anemia - heck, depression is your alter ego.
Untreated sleep disorder - depression be thy middle name.
Uncontrolled chronic bronchitis.
I live in the middle of nowhere and have better care than Michael in L.A. And that makes me cry.

Michael was missing some of the most basic meds that he should have had - but that were noticably absent in his nightstand basket.

Great post!!! Thank you for sharing that and talking about your own experience.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

No .no connection at all. mj met Murray through a bodyguard who if i remember right was given his name by his dad

I have to ask the question is there a connection between Thome and Murray? Or Thome-All good-Murray? Just curious
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I see justin bieber had to be treated backstage at the 02 in london last night by drs and emt's after fainting and suffering breathing problems during one of his shows. and this a kid. yet we have them questioning why mj would need a dr on tour with him!

So true, and notice an absence of scandalous adjectives/adverbs to describe the artist or the situation. With him everything is normal. Some of us remember when Michael fainted during rehearsals at the Beacon in New York, due to dehydration, & the press made statements about him having AIDS before learning of his true condition. His doctor had to give a statement that he was not being treated for AIDS. It is good to have these comparisons so people can see that Michael was not paranoid, as people like to say.

Qbee your post: They are saying AEG pushed Murray into taking exreme measures in using propoful for MJ's treatment. But I remember Murray stated he started weaning MJ off the propoful after being read the riot act by AEG. He was trying more medically exeptable methods to help him sleep. MJ was fine on those days in rehearsals too. It seems to me AEG was saying we dont want MJ coming in incoherant and unable to perform. Do you job and keep him healthy. Not continue doing what ever is causing MJ to be out of sorts. but the last night Murray resorted to using propoful again. It seems to me AEG stepping in halted the propoful use for a time at least. Also I didn't take the email they are quoting to mean we pay you so drug MJ up so he can do his job. They were saying there's a problem, we are paying you, so do your job (as in get him healthy so he can work )

^^I agreee with it 100%. I do not think by that email AEG was saying to drug up Michael with that drug, but rather reminding him that as a doc he was supposed to keep the patient healthy & ready for work, so there will be less missed rehearsals. I am sure there is more of the e-mail & we only got a little piece of it. No doubt, in court all these aspects will be cleared up by AEG's witnesses.

Jamba I saw your last post to me, but I don't want to go there, because I have no proof of that, & I also do not want to add anything more to him than he already has. I mean people have piled up all kinds of psychoses, diagnoses, & conditions on Michael, so I will leave it at that. Now let's see what Katherine & AEG is up to....
 
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Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Great post!!! Thank you for sharing that and talking about your own experience.

An MD with focus on sleep medicine could have also asked an Occupational Therapist to check for Sensory Integration issues (that type of research simply did not exist when Michael was young and shocker, has nothing to do with "Michael, the freak" the media loves) which together can make for horrible nights - I have a child with a sleep disorder who used to wake up every 20 minutes, driving us all insane. And he sticks sticky notes everywhere, so a lot of this sounds awfully familiar.
(the brain in newborns and young babies for example show very sleep short cycles - and for example, someone with narcolepsy and other sleeping disorders has measurable sleep cycles that differ vastly from healthy sleep)
His mother kept mentioning having to make extra issue he'd eat and the sleep issues were also longstanding. I remember Bush talking about his fascination for corduroy.
Given his artistic nature and him being a dancer - treating his underlying issues of anemia (can produce horrible insomnia+and fatigue), the chronic bronchitis - add Michael's very specific eating habits and the sleep issues - heck, he was SNORING (!!!! one the biggest giveaways in sleep disorders) - an expert in OT, communicating with a sleep specialist could have helped - in addition with meds.
A good occupational therapist (not to be confused with a 'shrink'!!) could have screened him because the eating+sleeping issues+snoring are almost a dead giveaway. Instead of scolding Michael for trying to fall asleep with a TV, something should have clicked - people with these specifics simply 'operate' differently than the rest of us and scolding them for their coping methods accomplishes ZERO.

I shake my head that someone of Michael's statue had to put up with such horrible care. Makes me sad.
I'm an artist myself and it is true - the muses do seem to talk very loudly at night, especially when it is quiet in the house - and I went from total basket case to human being in about half a year.
Michael's autopsy showed some fairly easy manageable issues that could have been managed even within a few weeks, or at least tolerable. :cry:

Kudos to Michael for trying and reaching to out to a holistic nurse and 'allopathic' medicine at the same time. He was trying and a lot has changed in the last few years in the treatment of sleep disorder.

Again, not trying to speculate about anyone's mental health - just thinking out loud about the things mentioned by his loved ones, shown in the autopsy report. And they are unspectacularly boring and have nothing to do with "Mike, the pill popper'.
Michael was simply surrounded by folks who seemed rather unflexible - just by freaking NOT REFERRING him to those people who deal with these issues. But no, everyone wanted to stay his primary physician. Go figure.

Totally OT... but there are millions of people with similar issues also just trying to cope. Some people literally drink themselves into 'sleep' - don't ever think for a second that other people aren't as desperate to sleep.
 
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Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I asked this question the other day and I will ask it again. What is the difference between the Jackson family and tge Chandler family?
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I asked this question the other day and I will ask it again. What is the difference between the Jackson family and tge Chandler family?

Good question indeed. There is no difference in intent but a difference in blood.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I asked this question the other day and I will ask it again. What is the difference between the Jackson family and tge Chandler family?

There is none. Money is common nominator.
 
Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

An MD with focus on sleep medicine could have also asked an Occupational Therapist to check for Sensory Integration issues (that type of research simply did not exist when Michael was young and shocker, has nothing to do with "Michael, the freak" the media loves) which together can make for horrible nights - I have a child with a sleep disorder who used to wake up every 20 minutes, driving us all insane. And he sticks sticky notes everywhere, so a lot of this sounds awfully familiar.
(the brain in newborns and young babies for example show very sleep short cycles - and for example, someone with narcolepsy and other sleeping disorders has measurable sleep cycles that differ vastly from healthy sleep)
His mother kept mentioning having to make extra issue he'd eat and the sleep issues were also longstanding. I remember Bush talking about his fascination for corduroy.
Given his artistic nature and him being a dancer - treating his underlying issues of anemia (can produce horrible insomnia+and fatigue), the chronic bronchitis - add Michael's very specific eating habits and the sleep issues - heck, he was SNORING (!!!! one the biggest giveaways in sleep disorders) - an expert in OT, communicating with a sleep specialist could have helped - in addition with meds.
A good occupational therapist (not to be confused with a 'shrink'!!) could have screened him because the eating+sleeping issues+snoring are almost a dead giveaway. Instead of scolding Michael for trying to fall asleep with a TV, something should have clicked - people with these specifics simply 'operate' differently than the rest of us and scolding them for their coping methods accomplishes ZERO.

I shake my head that someone of Michael's statue had to put up with such horrible care. Makes me sad.
I'm an artist myself and it is true - the muses do seem to talk very loudly at night, especially when it is quiet in the house - and I went from total basket case to human being in about half a year.
Michael's autopsy showed some fairly easy manageable issues that could have been managed even within a few weeks, or at least tolerable. :cry:

Kudos to Michael for trying and reaching to out to a holistic nurse and 'allopathic' medicine at the same time. He was trying and a lot has changed in the last few years in the treatment of sleep disorder.

Again, not trying to speculate about anyone's mental health - just thinking out loud about the things mentioned by his loved ones, shown in the autopsy report. And they are unspectacularly boring and have nothing to do with "Mike, the pill popper'.
Michael was simply surrounded by folks who seemed rather unflexible - just by freaking NOT REFERRING him to those people who deal with these issues. But no, everyone wanted to stay his primary physician. Go figure.

Totally OT... but there are millions of people with similar issues also just trying to cope. Some people literally drink themselves into 'sleep' - don't ever think for a second that other people aren't as desperate to sleep.

Thanks for sharing such a 'insightful' post... I always think own experiences stick the most 'cause then you really 'understand' the situation and the struggle... I'm an EX- Insomnia too :blush: and I managed to 'cope with it at HOME... Luckily with 'natural' remedies :blush: The ONLY 'frustrating' thing is, I can't go on sleepovers or on holiday any more since I quit my meds in 2009...

It so 'freaked' me out how they 'abused' Michael so much :blink: In that way, you realize that they indeed used Michael as a 'commodity' instead of a 'human' :cry:
See, simply this brings it all back and makes the wound bleeding again :sigh:

On the topic of Murray... I know, I don't wanna see his face :puke: but I FOR ONCE wanna know BOTH sides of the stories... It's like any one who has lost a 'loved one' I seek to know the WHY DID YOU DO IT?

I know, it's AEG that's 'on trial' here but I notice that I'm and I hope I'm NOT alone in this... Still have questions that bother me... Yep, I'm what's called HEALED in 'grief terms' but the questions remain, right?

As for the questions about the Jacksons vs Chandlers? Greed :evil:
 
Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit


On the topic of Murray... I know, I don't wanna see his face :puke: but I FOR ONCE wanna know BOTH sides of the stories... It's like any one who has lost a 'loved one' I seek to know the WHY DID YOU DO IT?



The problem is that how would we know what Muarry say will be the truth? He has to cover his skin, due to his appeal, & because he has said often enough that he is NOT guilty, that Michael injected himself. He also hates Randy, and will say anything to get him in trouble. He also hates AEG for not paying him. He blames Michael for getting him in the situation he is in now, and even judge Pastor commented on that in his speech. If this is the person you what to ask WHY to, I don't think you will get a truthful answer.

Personally, this is what I think: Muarry has to either take the 5th, or say something that will be beneficial to him, so unless AEG pays him some money on the side, or unless the family promises him millions when he comes out of jail, he is going to screw both sides, (I.e., Michael & AEG) with his statements. He is not going to do anything for the family so they could get millions & he is not going to do anything for AEG so they can keep millions. He knows when he comes out it will be hard to work and make the kind of money he made before, so unless he has an opportunity to get some cash, he is not going to help anyone. Look at how long it took him to give a deposition. They had to go to court for him to agree, which shows he is NOT helping anyone willingly. I think if he helps the family & they win, they will give him some money quietly.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I just HATE when I see on the news that Murray being was pressured by AEG. It's like he's becoming the victim now. And it's all thanks to the family.

Sorry Michael :cry:
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I just HATE when I see on the news that Murray being was pressured by AEG. It's like he's becoming the victim now. And it's all thanks to the family.

Sorry Michael :cry:

The good news is there is absolutely no news coverage of this lawsuit here in the U.S.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

The good news is there is absolutely no news coverage of this lawsuit here in the U.S.

Am I understanding you correctly? ^^ The news has started to cover this lawsuit & will continue to do so. Do you mean to say that cameras are not allowed, which is another thing all together than saying there is absolutely no news coverage of this lawsuit.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I'm not sure how "taking the 5th" would apply in Murray's situation? Legal question, and maybe Ivy would know? The "5th" means that people can't be compelled to give testimony that might incriminate them. But, Murray has already been judged guilty, and can't be tried twice for the same thing. So maybe he doesn't have that option, in this case?

Nope, Murray won't tell the truth, and even if he does, how would anyone possibly KNOW?
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

The "5th" means that people can't be compelled to give testimony that might incriminate them.

True. I also want to add that the pleading the 5th is not a blanket thing. Meaning he will be required to answer questions that is not incriminating.

But, Murray has already been judged guilty, and can't be tried twice for the same thing. So maybe he doesn't have that option, in this case?

he has an active appeal. I'm thinking it would give him grounds to plead the 5th.

Nope, Murray won't tell the truth, and even if he does, how would anyone possibly KNOW?

no one can know for sure. and whatever he says the other side can argue that he's not credible.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

^^His attorney said that she told him to take the 5th, but Muarry had a mind of his own. This means that for some questions he could take the 5th. I don't think anyone claimed that the 5th means he answers no questions. In any event he can take the 5th if an answer will incriminate him.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

^^His attorney said that she told him to take the 5th, but Muarry had a mind of his own. This means that for some questions he could take the 5th. I don't think anyone claimed that the 5th means he answers no questions. In any event he can take the 5th if an answer will incriminate him.
I wonder what WOULD happen if he DID plead the 5th on EVERY single question...they cannot force him to answer. Otherwise there would be no such law. Ivy...do you know?
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

^^Thunder I don't think you can plead the 5th on everything. I know also you can plead the 5th on the stand during a trial as well, but I don't think you can get away with doing that for everything, otherwise every crook would be doing it & there would be no trials because we would be all lying and saying we cannot answer because it would incriminate us. The mere fact that a judge could order that you do a deposition, like they did with Muarry, shows that there must be something in place to prevent us from all saying, "I invoke the 5th."
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

You can't plead the 5th for every question. if he does judge can order him to answer and held him contempt of court if he refuses.
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

You can't plead the 5th for every question. if he does judge can order him to answer and held him contempt of court if he refuses.

Yes this sounds like it.

I wonder if muarry has thought about what he is going to say? He must have an idea about the questions Katherine's side is going to ask, & I am sure his lawyer went over the possibilities with him. Anyway Muarry must have made a lot from that documentary for him to be able to continue paying his lawyer. Even Johnson is struggling to pay her lawyer, but not muarry.
 
Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

The problem is that how would we know what Muarry say will be the truth? He has to cover his skin, due to his appeal, & because he has said often enough that he is NOT guilty, that Michael injected himself. He also hates Randy, and will say anything to get him in trouble. He also hates AEG for not paying him. He blames Michael for getting him in the situation he is in now, and even judge Pastor commented on that in his speech. If this is the person you what to ask WHY to, I don't think you will get a truthful answer.

Personally, this is what I think: Muarry has to either take the 5th, or say something that will be beneficial to him, so unless AEG pays him some money on the side, or unless the family promises him millions when he comes out of jail, he is going to screw both sides, (I.e., Michael & AEG) with his statements. He is not going to do anything for the family so they could get millions & he is not going to do anything for AEG so they can keep millions. He knows when he comes out it will be hard to work and make the kind of money he made before, so unless he has an opportunity to get some cash, he is not going to help anyone. Look at how long it took him to give a deposition. They had to go to court for him to agree, which shows he is NOT helping anyone willingly. I think if he helps the family & they win, they will give him some money quietly.

Ah, well :smilerolleyes:
The BOLD thingy says it all... I think this is a NO WIN situation then and it's all about the :2cents:
WHY am I not surprised of it :sigh:

Indeed, we'll NEVER know the whole TRUTH if you remain STUBBORN...
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Anyway Muarry must have made a lot from that documentary for him to be able to continue paying his lawyer. Even Johnson is struggling to pay her lawyer, but not muarry.

"Conrad Murray, the physician convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson, has asked for a publicly funded lawyer to handle his appeal on that conviction, claiming that he cannot afford to pay for one out of his own pocket."

He is not paying Valerie V fees, you as a tax payer pay her fees.
Did you forget the instrument sold CM's cry tape in order to pay rent, so CM is pretty much broke.
 
Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Personally, this is what I think: Muarry has to either take the 5th, or say something that will be beneficial to him, so unless AEG pays him some money on the side, or unless the family promises him millions when he comes out of jail, he is going to screw both sides, (I.e., Michael & AEG) with his statements. He is not going to do anything for the family so they could get millions & he is not going to do anything for AEG so they can keep millions. He knows when he comes out it will be hard to work and make the kind of money he made before, so unless he has an opportunity to get some cash, he is not going to help anyone. Look at how long it took him to give a deposition. They had to go to court for him to agree, which shows he is NOT helping anyone willingly. I think if he helps the family & they win, they will give him some money quietly.

Totally agree and Murray is so pompous and arrogrant, anything he says is going to make himself look like a victim as well as a hero, and more blame is going to be put on MJ.
 
Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Totally agree and Murray is so pompous and arrogrant, anything he says is going to make himself look like a victim as well as a hero, and more blame is going to be put on MJ.

WTFbad_zps90ea58aa.gif


Is the only thing that pops in my mind, right now :sigh:
 
Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

You can't plead the 5th for every question. if he does judge can order him to answer and held him contempt of court if he refuses.
I thought bashir took the 5th in '05 and didn't answer any questions. Perhaps that was slightly different and something to do with journalism.
 
Michael’s mother and kids are following customs by having a criminal trial followed by a civil trial. Restitution is for the lost of Michael in the business sense and is limiting. They are seeking damages from AEG for the lost of Michael overall.

The Chandlers went against customs by winning the chance to go straight to a civil trial. They didn’t want a criminal trial at all. They ensured a windfall by doing that. They lost no human life before going straight for extortion.

How is this the same?

Ivy, question please: didn’t the estate also rejected restitution along with the family?
 
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