[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[christy]

Compensation can happen two ways after a criminal act: the criminal doing time and monetary damages. Each situation is different. Some families of victims of a fatal criminal act seek maximum time because there is no value to monetary damages from the convicted criminal. If minimal time or no time is given (the defendant is found not guilty), monetary damages are USUALLY sought.

Some think the two years Murray will finish serving this year is compensation enough. Some (including the family) would have preferred a tougher charge resulting in much more time if successful.

The civil trial has no criminal claims. We will be able to see if Murray’s criminal act resulting in Michael’s wrongful death could have been prevented if some due diligence happened on AEG’s end. If successful, Michael’s mother and children will be compensated with monetary damages. If not, we all will have to accept Murray’s two years served as the only compensation for Michael's wrongful death.

The premise of this charge rests 100% on one question:
Did AEG hire Conrat Murray?
If yes, the part of due diligence can proceed , if not , the ball park is out.
Nothing further moves forward.
That's why this trial is groundhog day of the Conrat's trail all over again.
They enjoy hammering Michael's 'drug addict" notion pounding it to his grave. Pfft!
It already has been established by Walgren & Brasil AEG did NOT hire CM.
As for a tougher sentence for Murray, we know 4 years is not enough, so we wanted 2nd degree murder but proving it is not easy.
Resitution for Conrat's is the other compensation to make up for a tougher sentence.
To imprison CM financially for LIFE!
If judge Pastor can do something to add to CM's years behind bars he would.
To think that Conrat would once again be able to broadcast Michael at his most vulnerable - with propofol meandering through his veins with slurred speech is abominal!
CM's insurance policy is just about ripe for the picking.
Happy! for NO restitution? :banghead

 

[Autumn II]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Yes, this trial seems very much like Groundhog Day. . . .

 

[ivy]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

The premise of this charge rests 100% on one question:
Did AEG hire Conrat Murray?
If yes, the part of due diligence can proceed , if not , the ball park is out.
Nothing further moves forward.

actually it will proceed in the trial. as each side will try to make their case fully. it's the jury that will work in the way you describe.

jury will start with did AEG hire Murray? If they say AEG didn't hire Murray they will immediately come with a not guilty verdict without considering the rest.

if they think AEG hired Murray they will need to consider if AEG did or did not show due diligence such as the background check during hiring process. If they are satisfied with what AEG did they will come with a not guilty verdict.

If they believe AEG did not show due diligence at hiring then they would try to determine if AEG shares any responsibility and what could be their share of responsibility. This is when they would consider not only Murray but Michael's actions as well.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

The judges comment in one of the articles about murray working for mj before will also effect any judgement and possible damages they may give. to me thats a major issue if i were a jurror. how can aeg hired him when he was already doing that before may

 

[ivy]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Alan Duke ?@AlanDukeCNN
Appeals court just rejected AEG appeal to keep e-mails, documents in Jackson wrongful death trial sealed.

03/07/2013 Filed petition for writ of: Mandate/Stay Requested by AEG Live et al.
03/07/2013 Exhibits filed in support of: 13 Volumes of exhibits by Petr. AEG Live et al.
03/07/2013 Filed document entitled: Unredacted Petition for Writ of Mandate by Petr. AEG Live et al.
03/07/2013 Filed document entitled: Unredacted Exhibits in support of Petition for Writ of Mandate (13 Volumes) by Petr. AEG Live et al.
03/08/2013 Order filed. denying petitioner's request for immediate stay
03/11/2013 Order filed. re: Sealed Documents

http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=2&doc_id=2039633&doc_no=B247338

 

[Korgnex]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

It's also important to understand the claim in this lawsuit. There's no remaining claim of a murder or even civil conspiracy here. Nothing that says AEG wanted Michael dead, nothing that even says Murray had an intent and there's no proof. Claims that AEG controlled Michael or financial pressure is out. This lawsuit claims Michael died due to negligence of Murray and AEG is should share responsibility because they hired Murray. It's a simple contract lawsuit.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the fans are realizing this.

As for AEG I think the cat is already out of the bag and the "damage" is done, they are profit seeking cooperation that looks for their own best interest and is not the nicest people you have met. That's probably true for any organization. But not necessarily a crime. MJ fans have expected everyone treat Michael like the way they do with love and they get angry when they realize not everyone approached Michael like that. But again being a SOB is not a crime either.

Obviously if KJ wins , AEG loses ; it would mean AEG shares responsibility for Murray's actions. I would think that would be a "damage" as well - mainly because many people / fans will not realize or care that it's a simple contract issue and think and act like AEG had a role in Michael's death or "murder" as they like to call it.

I second that.

 

[Tygger]

Qbee, restitution was rejected by four parties in which three are lawyers representing the best interest of their clients: Michael’s mother, a lawyer representing Michael’s father, a lawyer representing Michael’s children, a lawyer representing Michael’s estate

Christy, I don’t think 2nd degree was that hard to prove in this case but, that’s my opinion.

Ivy, the contract with Michael and AEG happened late January so they were in the picture for months. I do not understand what you meant AEG was not there April and May but Murray was.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Ivy, the contract with Michael and AEG happened late January so they were in the picture for months. I do not understand what you meant AEG was not there April and May but Murray was.

I was talking about AEG and Murray. AEG started talks with Murray in May. Murray ordered first Propofol in April. So one month before AEG became aware of Murray and started hiring negations, Murray was obtaining and giving Michael Propofol. And actually Adams stated that he gave Michael propofol Mid April in Murray's office.

 

[jamba]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I agree - katherine didn't start nor was she responsible for Murray's criminal trial.
She had no say in it. With or without her it would go forth. The charges and criminal trial was brought
on by prosecutor David Walgren, The City of L.A. / "The people vs Murray " Had Murray not been charged
criminally then she could have brought a civil suit against him. but she was offered restitution after the trial
and turned it down in order to sue AEG .. It was not Katherine that decided the criminal trial would go before
any civil trial ... So to say she did the right thing is incorrect because she had no choice.

Thanks, Qbee, that's what I was wondering about --the way it was worded that KJ somehow 'chose' to have a criminal trial first.

 

[jamba]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

The reason that Michael didn't die from Ratner giving him propofol is that Ratner is an anesthesiologist and knew what he was doing, as opposed to CM, who had no training or experience with propofol. The fact that MJ wanted to hire Adams showed he knew he needed a trained anesthesiologist. To what extent did CM block Adams from being on board??

As far as AEG knowing what Murray was doing to MJ in a private medical care situation, if they had asked, What is your treatment plan, wouldn't CM have said--none of your business. Don't play doctor, etc. Would they have had the right to complete disclosure from CM re treatment or is that protected by the patient-doctor relationship? I mean, assuming they hired him (as an independent contractor) to what extent could they have legally supervised him??

 

[Petrarose]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Alan Duke ?@AlanDukeCNN
Appeals court just rejected AEG appeal to keep e-mails, documents in Jackson wrongful death trial sealed.

03/07/2013 Filed petition for writ of: Mandate/Stay Requested by AEG Live et al.
03/07/2013 Exhibits filed in support of: 13 Volumes of exhibits by Petr. AEG Live et al.
03/07/2013 Filed document entitled: Unredacted Petition for Writ of Mandate by Petr. AEG Live et al.
03/07/2013 Filed document entitled: Unredacted Exhibits in support of Petition for Writ of Mandate (13 Volumes) by Petr. AEG Live et al.
03/08/2013 Order filed. denying petitioner's request for immediate stay
03/11/2013 Order filed. re: Sealed Documents

http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=2&doc_id=2039633&doc_no=B247338

So the negative part of this is that the media with print these e-mails making it seem that Michael was a basket case from day 1. They will not write it in such a way to show AEG was a jerk.

 

[8701girl]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

As far as AEG knowing what Murray was doing to MJ in a private medical care situation, if they had asked, What is your treatment plan, wouldn't CM have said--none of your business. Don't play doctor, etc. Would they have had the right to complete disclosure from CM re treatment or is that protected by the patient-doctor relationship? I mean, assuming they hired him (as an independent contractor) to what extent could they have legally supervised him??

Well AEG was the concert promoters for THIS IS IT so they could've said "we are the promoters and we have a right to know if mr jackson is fit & healthy to go on with the shows" and i guess they did have a right to do that for that reason

I'm no legal expert but i guess thats right........... ivy am i?

 

[Bubs]

Qbee, restitution was rejected by four parties in which three are lawyers representing the best interest of their clients: Michael’s mother, a lawyer representing Michael’s father, a lawyer representing Michael’s children, a lawyer representing Michael’s estate

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge handling the case that he was withdrawing the restitution request after speaking with Jackson’s mother, Katherine, and attorney for his father, Joseph. Walgren also consulted with an attorney for the singer’s estate and a court-appointed attorney representing the interests of Jackson’s three children, a transcript of the proceedings shows.

Restitution was rejected by 2 parties, which was Katherine and Joe, as they were told by they lawyers that they could get more money from AEG if they don't take restitution from CM.

Kids GAL or estate lawyers really had no say what family decides. Walgren only consulted them in regards K & J wanting to withdraw restitution. It's not like they had option to pursue with restitution no matter what K & J decides.

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

As far as AEG knowing what Murray was doing to MJ in a private medical care situation, if they had asked, What is your treatment plan, wouldn't CM have said--none of your business. Don't play doctor, etc. Would they have had the right to complete disclosure from CM re treatment or is that protected by the patient-doctor relationship? I mean, assuming they hired him (as an independent contractor) to what extent could they have legally supervised him??

Even if they had asked CM's treatment plan or how he is treating MJ, what good does do to them if they have no medical expertise to judge whether the treatment is appropriate? CM could have told them all sort of things what he is doing to help MJ (I'm assuming he would have been telling porky pies), but to normal person with no medical knowledge it would have been same as someone talking Chinese.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

murray was hardly gonna say yeah randy im giving him diprivan everynight. cant be bothered getting the pulseoxy meter out of the box and i tend to chat away with all my girlfriends at the same time.

We saw what happened in that meeting when kenny etc asked about mjs health and the responce they got from murray. what else could AEG have done when murray said what he did.

 

[Victory22]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

From the testimony at trial Murray lied and told AEG he was preparing special high protein shakes for Michael and assured them he was getting proper nutrition. He also assured them he was supervising Michael getting enough rest. There is no way in hell Murray would have told them he was giving Michael a surgical anesthetic in his bedroom. Murray took credit for Kai Chase nutritional plan and deceived everyone including Michael.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

There is no way in hell Murray would have told them he was giving Michael a surgical anesthetic in his bedroom.

I know, the idea that murray would be eagerly telling aeg executives, don't worry, i'm putting mj in a coma each night so he's nice and rested, is ludicrous. He knew what he was doing was wrong and unethical.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I know, the idea that murray would be eagerly telling aeg executives, don't worry, i'm putting mj in a coma each night so he's nice and rested, is ludicrous. He knew what he was doing was wrong and unethical.

of course he knew what he was doing was wrong and unethical that's why he lied to the EMTs and the ER doctors. He knew they would've looked at him as if he were nuts giving MJ anesthesia in his bedroom. Murray is a cardiologist, a medical doctor he knew what he was doing was risky but he was so arrogant that he thought he could handle it and instead of allowing Adams to join him , he got greedy and didn't want to split the $150,000 grand. He belongs in jail for twenty years or more if you ask me and Katherine should have sought restitution.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

None of what is going on here with this trial is EVER going to bring Michael back...WHATEVER it says in those e-mails is just going to continue to make Michael look bad. We already know about some of what was said in some of them...the rest cannot be much different. I understand the "idea" of this trial is to find out "how much" AEG knew about what Murray was doing to Michael...but at the end of it all MICHAEL is the one that they are trying to make look "troubled' . How fair is that to a man that gave EVERYTHING that he had to the world ..his family....his fans?? It's NOT fair. I will be glad when this whole thing is done because maybe then Michael can "Rest in Peace". These people can do and say whatever they want from this point on..Michael's legacy is written in stone already. What they have to say about him wont amount to a hill of beans imo...I just Thank God that he is not here to physically feel the pain of all this ...he suffered ENOUGH already. I love you Michael

 

[Vici]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

... a debt causing a person to compromise what they do is not that obvious.

Exactly, I dont see how 'Murray was in debt therefore AEG could have foreseen what could happen' is even a valid issue here. Didnt Murray own two clinics, one in Texas and one in Vegas? If the clinics were profitable or not, by owning two clinics itself is a big deal.

What could a background check on Murray really tell AEG? Didnt Murray also work for those with low living-standards so if he was in debt, couldnt that be a reason to why (ie helping people out for free/those with low income).

Lets say AEG found Murray was in debt, does that automatically mean he would act negligently? I dont see the equation here really. Its impossible for AEG to have known that just because Murray was in debt he was gonna be a 'yes man'. Plus, being a doctor is something that comes with respect.. we could see in the criminal trial that the AEG employees like Ortega trusted Murray was doing his job, the bodyguards/Kai Chase saw the oxygen tanks and nobody questioned what that was for... You just simply trust a doctor (being in debt or not).

 

[jamba]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

murray was hardly gonna say yeah randy im giving him diprivan everynight. cant be bothered getting the pulseoxy meter out of the box and i tend to chat away with all my girlfriends at the same time.

We saw what happened in that meeting when kenny etc asked about mjs health and the responce they got from murray. what else could AEG have done when murray said what he did.

I agree--so I don't get how AEG was supposed to 'supervise' CM. I guess this trial is just about did they do reasonable background checks. b/c the 'training and supervising' part seems like something they can't do (since they are not a medical organization and the dr-patient relationship is protected).

As far as a background check goes, assuming they didn't want to hire CM, and I think it's clear they didn't want to, what would MJ have done (or CM for that matter) if they had said NO WAY are we going to hire CM?? I mean, MJ came up with his salary after CM wanted 5 M (greedy much?). Didn't MJ push for CM on board by saying he needed/wanted him? Could they realistically have said no to hiring CM given that MJ wanted him? Is that what was expected of them anyway--to refuse to hire CM?

I agree with Ivy that some fans think the presssure from AEG killed MJ, or contributed to his death significantly, and they want to see AEG pay, and they don't realize that this is not what the law suit is about. As she said, it's basically a contract matter re did they show due diligence in the background check before the hire--did they overlook red flags that might have shown what CM was capable of? It's a long shot from looking at his record to foretelling from that what he did IMO.

My issues with AEG are that they didn't show MJ enough recognition and respect (in rehearsals and in the contract), they extended the series to 50 shows without enough time between shows (and maybe without his permission), and, most importantly, didn't do what K. Ortega suggested. They went back to work and didn't take his suggestions seriously. But these things aren't what the trial is about.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

My issues with AEG are that they didn't show MJ enough recognition and respect (in rehearsals and in the contract), they extended the series to 50 shows without enough time between shows (and maybe without his permission), and, most importantly, didn't do what K. Ortega suggested. They went back to work and didn't take his suggestions seriously. But these things aren't what the trial is about.

yes and those aren't illegal.

you can look and think that AEG is self-serving, profit seeking, uncaring ruthless bastards. and I would agree. However like I said before being a SOB isn't a crime and it's not what this lawsuit is about.

 

[Daryll748]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Of course any mention in the media can damage the reputation or vindicate a person. You never know until the end of the trial and listening to the witnesses and seeing how the media will approach to it. It could hurt reputations of both AEG and/or Jacksons or it could vindicate AEG and/or Jacksons. We will only know how it goes at the end of the trial.

Civil trials are about money. Every person will determine themselves if they see monetary compensation = justice. Some of us will, some of us won't.

It's also important to understand the claim in this lawsuit. There's no remaining claim of a murder or even civil conspiracy here. Nothing that says AEG wanted Michael dead, nothing that even says Murray had an intent and there's no proof. Claims that AEG controlled Michael or financial pressure is out. This lawsuit claims Michael died due to negligence of Murray and AEG is should share responsibility because they hired Murray. It's a simple contract lawsuit.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the fans are realizing this.

As for AEG I think the cat is already out of the bag and the "damage" is done, they are profit seeking cooperation that looks for their own best interest and is not the nicest people you have met. That's probably true for any organization. But not necessarily a crime. MJ fans have expected everyone treat Michael like the way they do with love and they get angry when they realize not everyone approached Michael like that. But again being a SOB is not a crime either.

Obviously if KJ wins , AEG loses ; it would mean AEG shares responsibility for Murray's actions. I would think that would be a "damage" as well - mainly because many people / fans will not realize or care that it's a simple contract issue and think and act like AEG had a role in Michael's death or "murder" as they like to call it.

Thanks Ivy :clapping: for explaining this so 'patiently'
NOW, I get it... :blush:

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

I was reading some tweets and this issue was mentioned:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/16...herine-responds-joe-jackson-accusations.jhtml
Joe knew something was wrong with MJ, and said to Katherine to move in with him, but Katherine didn't want to invade his privacy! Yet, according to them AEG should have keep eye on Michael 24?7?

 

[Tygger]

Bubs, Joe’s lawyer rejected it as Joe also had a civil case against AEG.

If the lawyers for the estate (which includes the four beneficiaries) and Michael’s children felt the rejection of restitution would in any way harm their clients, restitution would not be rejected by these lawyers.

Restitution would be symbolic in that case but, damages from AEG are seen as symbolic as well. The beneficiaries are currently very financially stable. The result of the civil trial will not change that fact. Some see it as symbolic and some do not. Either way is fine.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

Restitution would be symbolic in that case

No. A high restitution put on murray would have mean that he couldn't benefit from his crime. For example he couldn't have written a book as the jacksons can get the book rights and/or book profits as restitution (just like the Goldman family did to OJ Simpson)

now there's nothing that would stop Murray from benefiting from his crime.

 

[marebear]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

When Murray starts making money off of what he did I don't want hear any complaints from the Jacksons. They could have stopped it.

This trial is not about any kind of justice for Michael. Out of all the Jacksons it was Katherine who saw or talked to Michael the most and she said she saw nothing wrong with him. AEG will be ruthless and won't care about how they paint Michael out to be. I don't understand how his family will do the same to him.

 

[jamba]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

When Murray starts making money off of what he did I don't want hear any complaints from the Jacksons. They could have stopped it.

This trial is not about any kind of justice for Michael. Out of all the Jacksons it was Katherine who saw or talked to Michael the most and she said she saw nothing wrong with him. AEG will be ruthless and won't care about how they paint Michael out to be. I don't understand how his family will do the same to him.

There's an Oprah discussion with someone (Dr. Smith) and they are saying Michael and Whitney H. died trying to 'hit the high note' of past fame when they should have realized they could not. Oprah says that Thriller was "a phenonmenon" not to be repeated. All the comments focus on both MJ and Whitney H. as has-been drug addicts. So here we go.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-jackson-whitney-houston-death_n_2829735.html

 

[LastTear]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

^^^^^ And so it starts. *sigh*

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: [Disscussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsui

But damages from AEG are seen as symbolic as well. The beneficiaries are currently very financially stable. The result of the civil trial will not change that fact. Some see it as symbolic and some do not. Either way is fine.

Damages of $1 would be 'symbolic'. The sum i see bandied about for mj's lost earnings is $1,000,000,000. That's not symbolic, that's an earthshatteringly massive amount of money - to the persons asking for it and to the persons having to pay it. It's bizarre to pretend this lawsuit is 'symbolic'.