[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

MJ was obviously not well at m.s.g. Mj admitted himself about issues he was having around that time.but what that had to do with something that happened 8 years later i dunno there was no connection at all.

to be clear I'm not saying there's a connection between 2001 MSG and 2009 death of Michael. My point was Karen Faye is not at a position to say "I didn't know" and blame anyone. What did they do at 2001? They did not get help, they get Michael ready for a concert. How is that any different from what she blame AEG of doing?

Ivy, are you going to do summary of those docs that was filed by Katherine's side or it that all that we are going to get?

The motions about Murray? That's the only interesting information on the documents. The rest is about technical issues of deposing someone at prison and their schedules.

In my opinion, that was a mistake on the estate's side to allow them to talk about MJ medical treatments.

well it shows that Estate isn't as bad as Jacksons make them to be and they are willing to accommodate Katherine's requests.

I think the family are hoping murray comes through for them and blames aeg for everything

I think this is obvious right now. Especially after the last 2 information we have. AEG have said the evidence Jacksons have is inadmissible. I'm thinking they would argue hearsay. Also for the talks between Murray and Phillips for example they would need Murray to testify. And they reference Murray's documentary and the things he said about Phillips. So yes they want Murray to blame AEG.

What is funny is that, they want to depose Murray - at March 18- and they would ask him about the "extent of control" by AEG. Don't you think that this should have been the first question to ask when they first filed this lawsuit? What if Murray says "no they had no control". Katherine's case would end right then right there.

 

[Bubs]

Just for the sake of seeing everything in one place, I made this little thingy so we can do some mullin’ over.

This is what left to stand as for now from Jacksons case
From original KJ vs AEG document:
Second cause of action
Negligent hiring, training and supervision



74 AEG chose to hire and employ a physician CM, to excessively treat MJ and require that MJ accept treatment from him with goal being to get him to the shows.

We know AEG did not hire nor choose CM. AEG didn’t tell how to treat MJ, that was only between MJ and CM what kind of treatment MJ was receiving. AEG had no knowledge of that CM was pumping MJ full of proposal, as CM ordered them to his gf’s apartment, and according to CM trial, payment was made by CM’s credit card. AEG did not receive any receipts of CM’s “meds”, so they had no knowledge of medicines that CM was giving MJ.
I think it was reasonable from AEG to to tell MJ to stop seeing Klein, as they found out that he was sleepy and and not well after Klein’s treatments (as said in CM trial), and was barely able to go thru rehearsals. I suppose they thought that MJ should use only one doctor and the one he himself requested to be his personal physician.

75 In undertaking to hire Murray, AEG performed absolutely no diligence in investigating or checking out CM’s background, specialities, ability, or even whether he was insured, which it had duty to do. In choosing to hire and employ a physician to treat MJ, AEG undertook to act, and it needed to do so reasonable. AEG did not act reasonably and breached its duty.

AEG did check CM’s background, he had no disciplinary actions against. and he was licensed to practice in 4 states. By insinuating that CM’s debt posed a treat to MJ, and AEG should have seen it is just too ridiculous to comment. By saying that they didn’t check his specialities, they assume that AEG knew what kind of doctor MJ needed in order to receive propofol safely.

76 During the course of CM’s treatment, it become clear to AEG that MJ was not doing well at all. AEG did nothing to terminate CM and instead negligently retained him as an employee, and in doing so violated its duty of care. AEG insisted that MJ continue treatment with CM and receive no treatment from other physicians, a further breach of its duty of supervision.

As AEG said in their summary judgement, only MJ could fire CM as according to their agreement. If MJ was happy with CM, what they were suppose to do?
Jackson’s side assumed that AEG was aware of it was CM treatment that caused MJ being not well, it could have been Klien's treatments causing slurry speech.

77 Indeed, AEG instructed its employee CM to do whatever it took to make sure MJ attended rehearsals and shows, in other words CM was instructed not to look out for MJ’s best interests, but rather to do whatever medical procedures were calculated to get MJ to perform. The terms of CM’s employment with AEG were such as to heighten the risks to MJ. AEG paid CM excessively and made the purpose of his employment that MJ attended rehearsals. AEG knew or should have known that these term’s of employments were likely to pose an unacceptable level of risk to MJ’s health and safety.This is not proper way to oversee a physician employee from whom AEG was requiring MJ accept treatment. By doing so, AEG breached its duty to MJ to hire, retain, and supervise CM in a reasonable matter.

For first part, again, assumption from Jackson’s side. This is why they want to talk to CM.
We know from CM trial that MJ’s assistant called to AEG and told them that MJ told them that 5 million CM asked first, for which MJ said it was too much and told them to offer 150 thousand/month. Also I repeat this, do Jackson’s side think that by giving him less money would have prevented him doing what he was doing to MJ? Was AEG supposed to keep on eye on MJ day and night, go to his home and check what his doctor is doing?


78 AEG also was negligent in supervising CM in that CM had specifically requested a full-time nurse and Cardio-Pulmonary Resuscitation equipment for the treatment of MJ, and AEG had agreed to so provide that equipment. AEG did not provide that equipment and accordingly breached its duty of care to MJ.

We know that these things were requested to London, and according to AEG summary, CM was to select the assistant, which he never did.
Anyways, do Jacksons seriously think that CM was going to be administering propofol in front of the assistant? No, and thats why he never got around to find nurse that was crooked enough for his purposes.


Feel free to comment if you have something to add or something needs to be removed, I'll add/remove as we go.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Totally understand re msg ivy. i was just speaking generally interms of faye

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Was it actually shown that aeg asked mj to stop seeing klien ? i though the extent of that was the conversation with amir about mj acting funny

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

So yes they want Murray to blame AEG.

Yes, they want Murray to blame AEG. I guess at this point they have put all of their "remaining" apples in Murray's basket.

Three things, of the top off my head, Mother's side will have to overcome.

Firstly, as per Kenny Ortega's testimony, during that meeting, he inquired about Michael's health, and the good doctor told him to basically "mind his own business, and concentrate on the concert rehearsals." (If AEG had any control over Murray, he certainly wouldn't have been in any position to tell them to "mind their own business.")

Secondly, as per Kenny Ortega's testimony, Michael said "I know you're worried about me, but I'm fine." (How is AEG, or anybody else for that matter, supposed to respond when an ADULT tells you that "he is fine?")

And thirdly, Ortega's email to AEG regarding the possibility of Michael seeing a specialist. (A few things come to mind with regard to that possible request: a) I don't believe AEG could force Michael (an adult) to see a specialisit, they could certainly have made that SUGGESTION, but that's all it could have been, i.e. a suggestion. It does, however, show concern.)

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Kenny Ortega talks about a psychologist. It's apparent that he believed the issue to be a mental issue such as nervousness and so on. Dileo's voice mail to Murray shows he might have suspected some sort of drugs but not given by Murray as he asks Murray to test him to find out.

I'm thinking at most AEG knew Michael not mentally being ready for the concerts and / or suspected Klein.

Actually a little correction, we don't know if AEG did a background check on Murray or not. At least I don't remember them stating that they did. I'm thinking their point is more like even if there was a background check there would be no red flags - which I agree. Murray was a real and licensed doctor, he had no history of Propofol or even pain killers, he had no history of malpractice plus AEG's contract with Murray required Murray to maintain all required licenses and a malpractice insurance. This again shows that they were making sure that Murray was a proper doctor and they weren't cutting corners or giving him passes.


edited to add: the more I think the more I wonder why don't the judge dismiss the whole case. She still might.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Kenny Ortega's first inclination was right on.. Mike was scared to death and he was beyond nervous. I really wish Ortega would have taken charge. I know Randy Jackson tried to blame Kenny too for not 'contacting the family' when he saw MJ was ill. My question is why didn't Randy Jackson check up on his brother knowing he was going to embark on these shows and also knowing according to them that MJ had a 'dependency on medication' problem. Why didn't Randy Jackson check on his brother?

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Personally the only person I blame for Michaels death is Conrad Murray.

Me too, and the doctor who introduced propofol for Mj and said it was safe to use for his purpose.

What is funny is that, they want to depose Murray - at March 18- and they would ask him about the "extent of control" by AEG. Don't you think that this should have been the first question to ask when they first filed this lawsuit? What if Murray says "no they had no control". Katherine's case would end right then right there.

It is indeed curious that they left CM so late. I would have got his depo first but then I thought if they thought they can go through the trial without his input. I think granny-napping episode has something to do that they decided to depose CM.

Was it actually shown that aeg asked mj to stop seeing klien ? i though the extent of that was the conversation with amir about mj acting funny

Now that you mentioned it, I honestly don't know who said it and where? I thought that they said it during "Riot act" and was meant to be as tough love
I did found this:
AEG agents went to the entertainer's Beverly Hills home on June 18 and "demanded Michael Jackson stop seeing Dr. Arnold Klein and stop taking the drugs Klein gave him," Katherine Jackson claims. "AEG said Klein's drugs made him sleepy and prevented him from rehearsing. AEG demanded Michael Jackson take only the medications given to him by Murray." - See more at: http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/08/16/49367.htm#sthash.vRFaenJ0.dpuf

I shall check from CM trial who said it and what was said

Actually a little correction, we don't know if AEG did a background check on Murray or not. At least I don't remember them stating that they did. I'm thinking their point is more like even if there was a background check there would be no red flags - which I agree. Murray was a real and licensed doctor, he had no history of Propofol or even pain killers, he had no history of malpractice plus AEG's contract with Murray required Murray to maintain all required licenses and a malpractice insurance. This again shows that they were making sure that Murray was a proper doctor and they weren't cutting corners or giving him passes.

edited to add: the more I think the more I wonder why don't the judge dismiss the whole case. She still might.

Ivy, I got an impression that they did checked something, at least that he was real doctor and had a licence. Then again, if they didn't hire CM as they say, it wasn't their responsibly to do any kind of background check to anyone.

I was wondering the same thing, why she left negligent hiring, training and supervision part?
They didn't hire CM, nor they were qualified to train CM, and why they should supervise CM if he is not their employee?

 

[Big Apple2]

77 Indeed, AEG instructed its employee CM to do whatever it took to make sure MJ attended rehearsals and shows, in other words CM was instructed not to look out for MJ’s best interests, but rather to do whatever medical procedures were calculated to get MJ to perform.

AEG paid CM excessively and made the purpose of his employment that MJ attended rehearsals. AEG knew or should have known that these term’s of employments were likely to pose an unacceptable level of risk to MJ’s health and safety.

Two more points:

"AEG instructed it's employee CM." (I would think that Mother's side will have to produce some sort of documentation, like maybe a list, an email, and/or a letter, wherein those supposed instructions are listed.)

"AEG paid CM excessively - excessively means, extremely, exceptionally, or greatly." (To my knowledge, AEG paid Murray NOTHING! A big fat goose egg. NADA-COLDA! The fact that Mother's side continues to present statements that are just not true, speaks volumes, in my opinion.)

 

[CherubimII]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

So...strange that people use this Michael Jackson fan website to take the legal side of AEG, a multi-national billionaire, corporation made up of unknown people of unknown moral character.
"Just saying..."

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

So...strange that people use this Michael Jackson fan website to take the legal side of AEG, a multi-national billionaire, corporation made up of unknown people of unknown moral character.
"Just saying..."

If you take off your Rose-Colored Glasses (no pun intended), you would be able to see that the FACTS speak for themselves.

And in a court of law that and ONLY that is what will matter.

If Mother's side could present even a shred of evidence and/or proof as to what she is claiming, then we would be discussing that. But to date she has presented NOTHING.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Tbh bubs i thought the whole aeg told mj to stop seeing klien and the riot act scene (which was the meeting where murray told ortega to mind his own. it was murray giving the riot act not aeg) was something alledged by the family in order to accuse AEG of having control and making mj see murray who was being told what to give and when by aeg.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Im intrested in the facts not conspiracy theories cherubim

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

So...strange that people use this Michael Jackson fan website to take the legal side of AEG, a multi-national billionaire, corporation made up of unknown people of unknown moral character.
"Just saying..."

AEG doesn't need any people on this website to take their legal side. The only one matters is the judge and later the jury. As of now the judge has taken AEG's side by planning to dismiss 2 out of 3 claims. So as you can see it's not a matter of "corporation" versus "the little guy". It's a matter of fact and fiction. And it seems AEG is winning their argument.

 

[Bubs]

"AEG paid CM excessively - excessively means, extremely, exceptionally, or greatly." (To my knowledge, AEG paid Murray NOTHING! A big fat goose egg. NADA-COLDA! The fact that Mother's side continues to present statements that are just not true, speaks volumes, in my opinion.)

From CM's police interview played during the trial:
Detectives ask about who is Murray is working for AEG or MJ. Murray says he’s an employee of MJ but paid through AEG.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

oh a little tidbit. I was looking over the documents that Katherine's lawyers have filed to get the judge order Murray to sit for deposition.

Katherine's lawyers have deposed Murray's bodyguard (starting from June 26 to the time he got arrested). Apparently Murray's bodyguard has said Murray mentioned that he was owed money from AEG and Murray was frustrated that AEG did not pay him the money owed to him for his services to Michael.

This is one of the reasons Katherine's lawyers say Murray has relevant information - probably to establish an employee-employer relationship.

What amuses me is that Murray is expecting to be paid for his services after he killed Michael. Not that he accepts any blame.

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Was it actually shown that aeg asked mj to stop seeing klien ? i though the extent of that was the conversation with amir about mj acting funny

You know what, I cannot find info about that AEG told anything like that to MJ! Only in Katherine's lawsuit it was mentioned that AEG said it but I couldn't find where that claim came from?

 

[Big Apple2]

From CM's police interview played during the trial:
Detectives ask about who is Murray is working for AEG or MJ. Murray says he’s an employee of MJ but paid through AEG.

Oh, okay. Thanks Bubs.

But technically Murray was never actually paid. If I recall correctly, in the very beginning Ed Chernoff was talking about suing AEG for Murray's pay. Stating that Murray was never paid, but talk of that lawsuit soon died out, for whatever reason.

If Mother's side had any copies of Murray's AEG paystub, they would be waving it around like it was the American flag. LOL!

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

So...strange that people use this Michael Jackson fan website to take the legal side of AEG, a multi-national billionaire, corporation made up of unknown people of unknown moral character.
"Just saying..."

I cannot understand your stance on this? If you have something to bring on the table, please do so we can do some mullin' over, but you get nowhere with that sort of statements. Do you have some information that helps Jacksons case, or do you expect us to start talking nonsense and bash AEG for something that we cannot see they did?

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Oh, okay. Thanks Bubs.

But technically Murray was never actually paid. If I recall correctly, in the very beginning Ed Chernoff was talking about suing AEG for Murray's pay. Stating that Murray was never paid, but talk of that lawsuit soon died out, for whatever reason.

If Mother's side had any copies of Murray's AEG paystub, they would be waving it around like it was the American flag. LOL!

CM knew who was his employer, which was Michael. Had MJ lived, CM's salary was going to be paid by AEG from MJ earnings.
The same way as any advances they paid for MJ. I don't see AEG as CM's employer even if MJ had lived.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Chernoff knew Murray wouldn't see a penny especially since Murray killed his patient

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Here's something else that stays on my mind:

I have sat on many jurys during my time and can tell you as a juror, I personally would have a problem with the fact that Murray and Michael already had a doctor-patient relationship before AEG came on board.

That to me, is a huge hurdle for Mother's side.

I know Mother's side likes to say that "AEG picked and hired Murray," but we all know that's not true. Conrad Murray was Michael's choice and under regular circumstances, I can understand a person wanting their own personal physician to travel with them - if possible. I think Michael and Murray even had some sort of "friendship" outside of the doctor-patient thing.

Didn't somebody testify as to Murray sharing dinner with Michael and his children on several occasions?

Michael trusted that fool Murray, and as per Nurse Lee's testimony, Michael trusted Murray and was told everything would be fine, if he was monitored.

 

[ivy]

For reference

-------------------------

Kenny's email

Randy

I will do whatever I can to be of help with this situation. If you need me to come to the house, just give me a call in the morning. My concern is now that we've brought the doctor into the fold and have played the tough love, now or never card is that the artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff. He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get him back in the light. It's going to take a strong therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing. I was told by our chereographer that during the artists costume fitting with his designer tonight they noticed he's lost more weight. As far as i can tell there is no one taking care responsibility (caring for) for him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Tonight I was feeding him, wrapping him in blankets to warm his chills, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor. There were four security guards outside his door, but no one offering him a cup of hot tea. Finally it's important for everyone to know , I believe that he really wants this. It would shatter him, Break his heart if we pulled the plug. He's terribly frightened it's all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if i was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence. It broke my heart. He was like a lost boy. There still may be a chance he can rise to the occasion if we get him the help he needs

Sincerely,
Kenny

---------------------------

From Gongaware testimony

They contracted 31 shows because Michael wanted to do 10 more shows than Prince.

- They put 10 show tickets on sale just to engage how strong the sales are going to be. It was sold out instantly. Then they put the rest of the shows on sale and increased the concert number to 50.

- Michael said that he would do 50 shows.

- All 50 shows were sold out and even after that there were 250,000 people still in que for tickets. They could have sold out another 50 shows.

After the tour ended in March there were plans to add additional shows but PG stressed these were only plans.

---------------------------

Dileo's phone message

SM states that there was a voicemail on the iPhone on 6/20/09 from Frank Dileo. Dileo voicemail is played, and states, "Dr. Murray this is Frank Dileo, Michael's manager, I'm the short guy with no hair. I'm sure you know Michael had an episode last night, he's sick. ...I think you need to get a blood test on him, we gotta see what he's doing."

---------------------------------------------

Phillips testimony

During one conversation Phillips mentioned CM that MJ was seeing Klein. Phillips mentioned this because at one production meeting MJ wasn’t as focused as he usually was (Phillips say MJ was generally laser focused). Phillips asked MAW if MJ was okay and MAW had told him he just came back from Klein.

Phillips says he mentioned that MJ was seeing Klein in the meeting at the first week of June. Phillips says CM either knew or said that he would check into it.

Chernoff asks why he mentioned Klein to CM. Phillips say at one meeting MJ was distracted and when he asked MAW if MJ was okay, MAW said he just came from Klein. Another time it was mentioned MJ couldn’t; come to a meeting because he had been at Klein.

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I think Kai Chase testified in pre-trial that CM could sometimes eat with MJ and kids.
Also, CM said in his police interview that they met in 2006 and saw MJ on and off since 2006
The Instrument said in her testimony
"CM told her that he was MJ's personal physician in 2008. NA says that she was interested and excited about hearing that CM was MJ's doctor."


I cannot believe its only 34 days before the trial starts if it goes on trial.
I hope judges decision comes early so we don't have sit like on top of ants nest while waiting the news

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Dileo's phone message

SM states that there was a voicemail on the iPhone on 6/20/09 from Frank Dileo. Dileo voicemail is played, and states, "Dr. Murray this is Frank Dileo, Michael's manager, I'm the short guy with no hair. I'm sure you know Michael had an episode last night, he's sick. ...I think you need to get a blood test on him, we gotta see what he's doing."

It breaks my heart, when I read how most of those folks WERE concerned for Michael. The only problem was they were showing that concern to Conrad Murray. Conrad Murray the very person who was making Michael sick.

No way Murray would have suggested to Michael that he have a blood test. His secret "MIGHT" have been exposed.

(Thanks ivy.)

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Ivy, I got distracted with this bit and cannot think anything else

"I believe that he really wants this. It would shatter him, Break his heart if we pulled the plug."

I hope what MJ said to Ortega privately, stays with Ortega.

I get an impression that Ortega is honest man and I trust his word. Michael wanted to continue no matter what condition he was in (caused by CM):-(

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

March 4 is the discovery cut off date with Murray deposition at March 18 being the exception.

The final status conference is at March 21. They need to file at least 5 days before that hearing the final exhibits, witness lists and jury instructions and so on.

So they need to know what claims are staying before that so that they can proper accordingly.

I'm feeling like we will get the final order by Monday.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I get an impression that Ortega is honest man and I trust his word. Michael wanted to continue no matter what condition he was in (caused by CM):-(

I get the same impression Bubs.

In my opinion, Ortega loved and respected Michael. I trust him. I mean, he said that he "rubbed" Michael's feet when he was cold. I call that a true friend.

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I hope order comes on Monday.

Just a question in case judge throws out this case. Can Michael's kids sue CM for wrongful death suit when they are older or was the opportunity missed by refusing to take restitution/or not to name him in this case? Also, why CM wasn't named in this case?

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

So...strange that people use this Michael Jackson fan website to take the legal side of AEG, a multi-national billionaire, corporation made up of unknown people of unknown moral character.
"Just saying..."

I don't think there is anyone on this board who WANTS to legally side with AEG in any regard. But the issue of who hired CM is the whole crux of this case. Facts have shown CM was MJ's choice.

I have absolutely NO love for AEG, but to say they are guilty merely because they are a large corporation is wrong. It's as wrong as when people are stereotyped or racially profiled and are judged negatively merely because of their appearance or the actions of those who they are idenitifiable with.

I have no doubt Randy Phillips was an a** to MJ, but CM was the DOCTOR who wrecklessly and negligently is the direct cause of Michael's death. I'm not going to blame AEG for something that IMO is ALL CM's fault merely because they are a large corporation.