First, gotta say it was heartbreaking to read about the kids seeing Michael like that. OMGG!
At the same time it raises some questions about when they went upstairs and how did Kai Chase miss this? Did she take her eyes off the kids
after the prayer/holding hands thing and they slipped upstairs? Or did all this happen
before the prayer circle while she was doing something else? I remember her initially stating that Murray came downstairs frantic and shouted for her to get security and asking for Prince. Is it possible Prince and Paris went upstairs while she went off looking for security? So confusing. It's important becuz she will be one of the key people to speak on MJ's state of health/mind AT HOME. Credibility is so important here.
this is a mess??? also just because he spoke to the family and police doesnt mean anything. from what katherine said, they basiclly made him tell her mj was gone and toya said the she only knew who he was because paris pointed him out. im sure the police HAD to talk to him because he was at the scene of the incident. im sure he didnt go lloking for them. so that last sentence doesnt mean much. you lost one of your patients and all you can think about is food???? i would be 2 sick to eat anything!!! muarry is a trip. he knew he wasnt hungry he just needed an excuse to dip out before they questioned him again
Agree.
It's really irrelevant to do research to figure out the exact time of death based on the body temprature. Even in perfectly normal condictions ( no heater) no coroner would risk his reputation and give an exact minute of death. They always leave an HOUR as margin of error. The prosecutors said Murray realised what happened to MJ while he was talking to his babymama from Houston. Infact they confirmed what we have been speculating about for months, he was injecting MJ with one hand while holding his phone with the other. And there was no IV drip as he claimed .They gave us a timeline of 20 to 9 minutes before the 911 call. If you take everything into consideration MJ died there infront of Murray while he was injecting him within one minute of the injection. So MJ died within 20 to 9 minutes before 911 called.
You know what's crazy about this is that based on the timeline, Murray had to have been injecting Michael while he was on the phone...with one hand. I agree with all who are disgusted at this recklessness. But that's IF we believe he injected MJ and left the room at the timeline closer to noon.
Not sure what's worse...injecting properly an hour ealier and leaving the room for 40+ minutes to gab on the phone while Michael lay dying...
Or injecting with one hand (possibly incorrectly) while gabbing on the phone to his girlfriend and then leaving the room for a few minutes....
Or worse case scenario is he was injecting Michael with one hand while on the phone w/ the girlfriend and NEVER left the room. Like you said, that would mean Michael went into distress right in front of him and the whole story about "leaving the room" has been a lie. But he can't fess up to ever being in the room becuz then that blows his theory of MJ self-injecting or someone else doing it while he was out of the room.
In either scenario, he's either severely reckless/negligent, a liar, or both.
As distressing as all this info is to hear, I'm anxious to know what the experts think about him allegedly administering 25mg of propofol and leaving the room for "two minutes" only to return and find Michael "suddenly" not breathing w/a faint pulse. What conditions would have to be present or absent for this to be remotely true? I do wonder how many will say this is possible or will they call BS with a capital "B"...especially based on other drugs administered.
This!
When talking about MJ, I remember one of the first opinions of Kenny was that MJ was not feeling good. Then it changed to he was just great. All the time during TII movie promotion and after that. And now it happens to be Michael was feeling bad. Well, fans around him saw he was doing bad. And they were called crazy, blind fans, destroying Michael's legacy.
So what can we say now? :mello:
Had it all been that good, Michael wouldn't have had to use this to get some sleep. However, I still say he was playing with fire and it was not a wise / good decition at all. That's clear
Few things. First, I can't remember Kenny's initial reaction ever being that MJ was not feeling good. In fact, I believe it's the reverse. He initially said things were fine...which by his testimony today, he still beleives they were. That hasn't changed. However, at some point during the TII press junket he DID mention there WAS a time when he was concerned about things. Today, we learned his concern was about MJ's health on a particular DAY, NOT a stretch of days/weeks which makes a BIG difference, don't you think?
Would it be fair for someone to see you coughing uncontrollably one day and then presume you must be contagious, possibly dying or sick with tuberculosis? Of course not. IF anything, for me- at least-as I can't speak for other fans, he simply clarified his early admission that there WAS a time of concern. However, it was a particular day, the 19th. Now had he said there was a week or many WEEKS where MJ was shivering and appearing lost, then I'd agree with you that his story changed and he misrepresented himself. I don't see any change here. Michael had a bad day, Kenny was concerned. They had a meeting. Days later, Michael was back to himself and no one was concerned anymore.
As for the fans who some called delusional, well.. let's be honest here. "Some" of those fans who were saying MJ was out of it, had unfairly drawn their own conclusions about his health, even suggesting that MJ was engaged in activity that is not allowed to be mentioned here so I won't go there. "Some" of them even stated, "Oh yeah, sometimes we would see him and talk to him and he'd be out of it and it was kinda funny cuz we would repeat the same things over to him and minutes later he wouldn't remember." It was soooo cool that he wasn't ashamed to be "out of it" in front of them. (Yes, I saw a copy of a certain facebook page that has currently gone missing). My guess is they relayed that info to MJ's family as well who bought it hook, line and sinker. NOW, we know it was unusual medical practices Murray was administering to Michael that could have put him in the state he was in. Btw.. "some" of those fans have abandoned their theory of the thing that shall not be mentioned on this board...since the autopsy report was released. Ask some of them.
And the generalizations "some" of us balk at is present in your post with the last line.
See, when you say "had it been all good he wouldn't have to use this to get sleep", you are taking Michael's sleeping issue/insomnia and putting it into a context that MAY not apply? You are assuming that when things are all good, Michael couldn't possibly STILL have sleep issues. How can you conclude that when almost everyone who seems to know him will tell you that Michael had sleep issues for YEARS, tour or no tour. Working or not working. The Cascio's Mom says he slept fine at her house, yet the brothers admitted he DID have an issue with sleeping over the years.
So when you generalize his inability to sleep to conclude something bad or wrong MUST have been going on, it's not exactly accurate. Why Michael's own family won't admit to his sleeping probs, I can't fathom. Seems everyone, including Lisa Marie, has admitted this except them. Hmm....
Yes, he should have gotten some type of assistance for the sleep issues during his life time and for all we know, he may have tried many professional methods that just did not work.
I hope you are not offended by what I'm saying. Not having a go or personally attacking you in any way...I'm just trying to help you understand why some of us get annoyed when people/fans/family take something that was practically a constant with MJ (by most accounts) and turn it into a situation which insinuates something had to be "bad". I understand it's easy to draw that conclusion as most ppl can't sleep when things are bad. However, sometimes ppl can't sleep when things are very good and they are excited about something, too.
Hope I explained that right. It's late. Long exhausting day. My apologies.
I think we really need to stop jumping the un here. Kenny was speaking about one day in particular, not the whole time he was rehearsing. Also we have to wait for things to be made clearer with regards to the propofol use. And, used properly, propofol is very safe. So the question has to be what did MJ know. And how safe was he made to feel.
Jumping to conclusions simply based on emotions will not help anything. As difficult as it may be, we NEED to be patient.
And please do not double post.
Thank you.
