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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Big Apple2;3839391 said:
One thing that sort of get's ignored is when you say things like "Michael's health deteriorated in front of MANY." Do you think that Michael saw what MANY others saw and just ignored it. I mean, if MANY saw it, why didn't Michael see it as well?
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He must have realised he was no longer able to the 360° spins he was doing in April, he must have realised he was losing weight, he must have realised he was getting weaker, he must have realised he was cold all the time the last week. What's your point, I'm not sure I understand where you want to go with this logic ?
If what you mean is that Michael wanted propofol no matter what :
1) it doesn't make sense. He wanted propofol to sleep, so to be better, not to be like that. He wanted to do the shows. IF he usd it during History, as Putnam said, he was not like that during History tour.

Don't forget that Murray is a pathological liar, Casey Anthony type. Look what he just did to Paris. I don't think Murray acted that crazy before Michael died, but he lied all the way, as it was shown during his trial. People believed him at the time. That can't be taken out of the equation, IMO.

2)If Michael wanted to jump out of the window from the 7th floor, does that mean AEG should have held the window open for him, just because that's what he wanted ?


Big Apple2;3839391 said:
No offense, but sometimes you talk about Michael like he was 5, instead of 50.
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Michael was an adult, so were AEG people. I really can't understand that kind of arguments :

AEG has some responsability in hiring Murray the way they did (contract vs cash advance), involve CM in meetings, "promoting him" & giving him the responsability of getting Michal to rehearsals, letting the costs go over the limit (without asking for a formal validation), adding 19 shows without formal approval, having the shows NOT insured for illness 3 weeks before the shows started, etc.... They did contribute to the whole situation, making it difficult for them to postpone or cancel the shows, they did treat Murray as a tour employee/contractor.
AEG has plenty of lawyers/accountants , they don't really have an excuse for such mistakes.
 
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I am appalled by this. Randy Phillips actually hit Michael. From one of his emails re the press conference:

You guys are going to follow us behind a 12 passenger bus back there. I just slapped him and screamed louder than I did at Arthur Cassel- RP
 
?? yes, Stella, I didn't notice that, where did you see this ? Do you have a link ?
 
Is the NY Post reliable ? If find it weird that such an info was not given by ABC or AP, it would be a very important information.
 
Hmmm really weird that the news agencies in court and who covered those same emails would miss that out, you would think that they would have jumped at that.

ETA Maybe someone could ask AP, he can maybe check his notes.
 
LastTear said:
Hmmm really weird that the news agencies in court and who covered those same emails would miss that out, you would think that they would have jumped at that.

ETA Maybe someone could ask AP, he can maybe check his notes.
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They did on twitter and he says he was out of the court room sending emails when that testimoney occured.
 
Thanks, yes, I checked his TL and he says he couldn't verify it as he was also covering Paris's story. Well I guess the most important thing is that even if we miss testimony the jury is hearing it anyway. We still have the cross examination so we may hear more about it then. Another waiting game.
 
NYPost

To another business associate, Phillips wrote: "I haven't pulled it off yet. We still have to get his nose on properly. You have no idea what this is like. He is a self-loathing emotionally paralyzed mess... I just slapped him."

Phillips admitted, "I slapped him on the butt."



He is saying that he actually slapped him on the butt which seems rather odd. Not something a grown man usually does to another grown man. Sounds like he's trying to cover for what he did.
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Actually butt slap is pretty common in USA in athletics & even performing

don't mind the language but here's a video with a lot of grown man butt slapping other grown man


and here's country music stars on stage


and here's a definition

butt slap

One of the congratulatory gestures where one teammate slaps the rear of another player. Either to acknowledge them for outstanding efforts, inspire them if they are dragging behind, or calm them down if they are too fired up to concentrate. This is acceptable for all players, male to female, female to female, female to male or male to male. This gesture has nothing to do with homosexual tendencies but an extremely positive, enthusiastic and quick communication technique.
 
sorry Stella, but where does this transcript come from ?
He said that on Friday, right ?

I mean just ...wow. I was not expecting things could go that far.

Agreed, LastTear, we'll certainly her agin about this.
 
NYPost

To another business associate, Phillips wrote: "I haven't pulled it off yet. We still have to get his nose on properly. You have no idea what this is like. He is a self-loathing emotionally paralyzed mess... I just slapped him."

Phillips admitted, "I slapped him on the butt."
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In that context, I can't believe it was a "butt slap".

I'm just really surprised. Ididn't expect things could go THAT far. I'll wait till we hear more, we certainly will if it's true.
 
Well he did have a very nice butt........... Sorry, inappropriate I know.

Im sure if that had been a real, real slap, Michael would have had something to say about that. But anyway I bet RP is really regretting those emails.
 
Everyone:

I'm sorry but given the history between our site and the other site, we cannot copy, post the transcript or link back to the other website.

So please don't post or it here. Just write a very brief summary in your own words.

Thank you.


edited to add: We will talk among ourselves and might consider getting the transcript ourselves.
 
I didn't know the transcript could not be posted here. The main two points that are of relevance from the particular part of testimony are that Phillips had emailed his colleagues to tell them they needed to follow him in the bus that he and MJ and Tohme etc were taking to the o2. He said that he had had to slap Michael and scream louder at him than he did with Arthur Cassell. I'm not sure who Cassell is but he appears to be someone who had dealings with Phillips.

The second point of relevance is that he stated that he and Tohme, again via email, threw Michael into a cold shower.
 
Downplaying it as oh it was just a butt slap is B.S! If u just yelled at someone and then slap them whether on the face or body then it was meant to hurt them. I hate AEG as much as the Jacksons continuous B.S. But, I believe AEG should lose this case. They crossed the damn line! They are in my eyes equally as responsible for not given a damn about MJ, which gets more obvious everyday.
 
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^^

nice summary but you omitted Phillips tried to explain it as a coach with a football team getting ready to leave.. I don't know if he was stopped by Panish or the transcript posted omits his explanation ( we will see the full one when we get it ourselves) but Phillips is trying to say that it was a butt slap which as I said before is common in athletics & performance in USA.
 
ivy said:
^^

nice summary but you omitted Phillips tried to explain it as a coach with a football team getting ready to leave.. I don't know if he was stopped by Panish or the transcript posted omits his explanation ( we will see the full one when we get it ourselves) but Phillips is trying to say that it was a butt slap which as I said before is common in athletics & performance in USA.
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Yes but he's done a 180 on so many things on the stand, and contradicted himself so much that I don't think anything he says on the stand can be taken seriously. That comment, combined with the comments of him shouting so loud at Michael and throwing him in the shower paint a very unpleasant picture of what went on prior to the press conference. It seems obvious to me that they weren't just messing around. They were going to get him there no matter what.
 
Personnally in that context, I believe slapped meant slapped, not "butt slapped". He would have used other words.

I'm apalled, I'm not pro AEG , I don't like Phillips, but it never crossed my mind he could take things that far. It's shocking. I don't think this is representative of AEG. It's only representative of him, his personality, and how far he's ready to go, and the type of relationship he had with Michael. I can't imagine PG doing that for example.

I remember posters in this board wondering about marks on Michael's hands at the announcement & wondering about his behavior. Some people at the time were wondering if Michael had been phisically forced to come that day, they were suspecting something had happened before the press conference.

The shower thing needs a little more info, though. "Throwing MJ" into a cold shower could be an exaggeration of something less violent in reality.

It gives a different context of his meeting(s) with Thome, since Thome is the only one who could confirm that.
 
Nothing about it sounds right to me. I don't find it appropriate. I feel bad that Michael had anxiety and fear. It shows the damage that was done to him how the hardships affected him.
 
It's your right whether to believe it or not.

As of now I can say that we will be getting transcript of that day and I will post that questioning in full - without omitting any parts. We will see the full exchange then and probably have a better idea.

Also as Lasttear have said this will probably be examined during cross either.
 
When you buy transcripts , do you also get the email that was shown ? Or will the e mail(s) become public at a later point in time ?

Phillips is going to downplay it, I can't imagine him saying "yes, he got on my nerves so I slapped him". So it would be interesting to compare the e mails to what he says.
 
Question

do you really think that if Phillips slapped Michael on the face that Michael would stay around, go on with the announcement, rehearsals and concerts?
 
ivy said:
Question

do you really think that if Phillips slapped Michael on the face that Michael would stay around, go on with the announcement, rehearsals and concerts?
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No I don't.

I still don't know the truth but I am suspecting Phillips was prone to exaggerating in these mails, I may be wrong.
 
It looks like Tohme was in the room with Michael and Randy Phillips. Tohme is on the both sides witness list. If he takes the stand he will probably be asked about that day including the slap.
 
^^^good question.

I would think he could , because he had a commitment. The same way he stayed on stage after the Munich accident.
From the info we are getting, I'm not sure he saw Phillips that often. They seemed to have very little interactions.

According to what he said in his e mails, Phillips thought at the time (not anymore apparently) that Michael was drunk. He could have slapped him to "wake him up", or something like that, not out of anger.

And who knows if Michael didn't slap him back ? Or if Phillips apologised ? Or both ?
 
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