Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[qbee]

@bouee
Your Email thread in Sticky is now marked (read only no discussion) so you can add to it and we will keep discussion in here

 

[LastTear]

Thank you everyone, I was worried as we only have one kind of 'brat' here in the UK, so it sounded REALLY wrong!

 

[Big Apple2]

Interesting little tidbit, just posted by ivy in the Twitter/News - No Discussion Thread

After the HIStory tour ended in 1997, Michael asked Mr. Gongaware to come work for him as a business manager. Mr. Gongaware declined, wanted to continue with the touring business.

Who was Michael's business manager back than? Who ever they were, if Mr. G had accepted, "somebody" would have gotten the boot!

 

[ivy]

Copied from the email thread.

Email 6/15/09 from Hougdahl to Gongaware He needs some cheeseburgers w/ bunch of Wisconsin cheesehead bowlers and couple of brats and beers


I have to ask, please tell me 'brats' are some sort of food in the USA?

this made me laugh I know people already answered but all of those are all high calorie, high fat , fast food items that can easily make you gain weight.

and yeah brat in this instance is short for bratwurst

 

[serendipity]

Why is Panish once again yapping to the media? Can't he make his case in the court room? If he wants to impeach Gongaware he has the opportunity to do it in court. I'm glad Putnam pointed out MJ's scalp surgery. This whole thing is just so frustrating.

 

[LastTear]

Why is Panish once again yapping to the media? Can't he make his case in the court room? If he wants to impeach Gongaware he has the opportunity to do it in court. I'm glad Putnam pointed out MJ's scalp surgery. This whole thing is just so frustrating.

All I see is a screen and it's made of smoke! He needs to be careful because when/if they do make a valid point to the jury it may be lost amongst all that smoke.

 

[marebear]

I have a headache as well. I am just tired of Michael of being portrayed as some baby that needed to be taken care of. He was a grown man taking care of his 3 kids. He might have had bad business people working for him but he made sure he and his kids survived especially after the trial. During the trial when people tried to cheat him (including family members) he was smart enough to seek help and get advice from competent people. The only problem was Michael trusting Murray to take care of him and Murray lied to him, didn't take care of him and played Russian roulette with his life. If Michael had really known how Murray was treating him he would have told him his services not needed.

 

[ivy]

According to ABC7 Gongaware expected on the stand Monday and Tuesday.

so they are expecting him to be on the stand for a total of 5 to 5.5 days

 

[Tygger]

I don't see their point (I mean jackson's point) , because Michael made a public announcement about his problems during Dangerous tour. So we know PG knows anyway. I don't understand why it would be important to show WHEN he knew about this during Dangerous, except if he was involved with Finkelstein.

Bouee, the plaintiffs are saying Gongaware knew. Dr. Finkelstein will most likely testify that he had his conversation with Gongaware before Michael’s public announcement. Paraphrasing Faye, everyone knew before the tour ended.

Gongaware is the defense’s witness. The plaintiff’s lawyer basically laid foundation for the jury that Gongaware cannot be trusted. His memory lapses and confusion of simple terms he authored over the course of four days did not go unnoticed by the jurors or the judge. Yes he had thousands of emails but, when read to him, including ones he authored, he could not speak to the intention or situations behind those emails which is unrealistic and unbelievable. When he is called again after Faye is recalled and Dr. Finkelstein testifies, Gongaware will return and will be defensive on the stand.

I found it bizarre that plaintiffs brought up the subject whether Gonga had to pay any damages or if his insurance pays, wtf? Second issue I found stupid, plaintiffs keeps asking Gonga about what RP might have meant by saying this or that, or why RP said something or was he serious of this or that?

Bubs, Gongaware has an indemnity clause. Qbee had a post that said the clause is not supported when a party on the clause does something negligently. Could be Gongaware would be liable for his percentage of any possible damages awarded personally and he would not be covered by AEG’s insurance. As Ivy said, this would bankrupt Phillips and Gongaware. Nice.

Many questions asked regarding Phillips were his emails to Gongaware that Gongaware was confused by throughout his testimony. If Phillips emails were so confusing four years ago, why was there never a written response by Gongaware asking Phillips what did he mean?

They are impeaching Karen Faye who said Finkelstein was Michael's doctor.

Ivy, why would the plaintiffs’ lawyers try to impeach Faye? She is their witness. They can corroborate her story with Dr. Finkelstein who will testify to treating Michael during the Dangerous tour. The plaintiffs’ lawyer tried to impeach Gongaware.

I was talking about this the other day about negligent hiring in legal meaning. It involves reasonable conclusions. If you have a person let's say working with dependent people it's a reasonable expectation that person can identify people with problems with dependency. If you have another person who have never seen a person under the influence of drugs, they might not be understand even if they see signs.

So that's why they used Elvis but Gongaware not even meeting Elvis hurt that claim.

Ivy, I disagree. He did not meet Elvis but, understood he passed from an overdose of medications given by an unethical Dr. Nick as opposed to cardiac arrest. He warned Dr. Finkelstein not to be a Dr. Nick to Michael. Gongaware made the reference to Elvis and that is why it is being discussed during the trial.

It was reported that a Hollywood actor, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, left rehab recently after being sober for 23 years. It is a struggle that is fought EVERY DAY because a relapse is possible.

"we want to remind him what is expected of him"

Even if Gongaware did not say this directly to the doctor, it is the intention of the email that speaks to the supervision/control of the doctor by an AEG employee. This supervisory role only works if the doctor was an independent contractor. If he was not, why say it? The doctor is not beholden to AEG unless he is hired (implicitly in this case) by them.

Bouee brought up the meeting that was supposed to be about what equipment the doctor needed. Why would the doctor need to ask or get approval from AEG for anything if his employer is Michael? Why not just make a list for Michaael to give to AEG as an advanced expense?

I believe AEG questioned why a cardiologist was going to Michael's house nightly and may have known the answer. They were aware Michael was having sleep issues at the very least….

This is just your assumption. In all the documents filed so far, they have denied knowing the sleep issues and Jacksons were not able to show anything that they knew the sleep issues. It doesn't look like that even came up during questioning.

Bubs, Big Apple2, Ivy, Gerryevans, it is VERY possible AEG knew the doctor was at Michael’s home nightly. Phillips was asked this during the criminal trial by Walgren and Phillips responded that was Michael’s private time. Yet, AEG sought to insert themselves into the doctor-patient relationship. If this boundary is crossed, why would AEG not know about when the doctor did his work and maybe what the treatments were? An employer is allowed to know what their alleged independent contractor is doing and what his work hours are.

The plaintiff’s lawyer tried to impeach Gongaware on this topic:

Gongaware said Dr. Murray didn't discuss with him MJ's sleeping problems. In his deposition, Gongaware said he didn't remember. Panish asked Gongaware what made him remind that Dr. Murray didn't talk to him about MJ's sleeping problems; example of impeaching witness. (ABC7)

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts2m
Gongaware said Dr. Murray didn't discuss with him MJ's sleeping problems. In his deposition, Gongaware said he didn't remember.
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts1m
Panish asked Gongaware what made him remind that Dr. Murray didn't talk to him about MJ's sleeping problems; example of impeaching witness

 

[ivy]

^^

Could I make a request ? Could you be clear in your posts in regard to your opinion and the facts? You can believe it's very possible they knew the sleep issues but there's no evidence as of now to support that. There are a lot of similar things like that.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

-Sigh- This family...I just shake my head at them, using their usual "Michael was a drug addict" crap to build their case. I swear it seems like this family does Michael more harm than any tabloid has throughout this whole case.

 

[troubleman84]

According to ABC7 Gongaware expected on the stand Monday and Tuesday.

so they are expecting him to be on the stand for a total of 5 to 5.5 days

Why that long? For what reason? They haven't really proved anything for their own case.

 

[Ashtanga]

According to ABC7 Gongaware expected on the stand Monday and Tuesday.

so they are expecting him to be on the stand for a total of 5 to 5.5 days

OMG! Does Gongaware has so many things to talk about? :blink: (Let's see.... :fear 5 days is a long time. :bugeyed This trial will take forever to finish. :doh: *big sigh*

 

[gerryevans]

Bubs, Big Apple2, Ivy, Gerryevans, it is VERY possible AEG knew the doctor was at Michael’s home nightly. Phillips was asked this during the criminal trial by Walgren and Phillips responded that was Michael’s private time. Yet, AEG sought to insert themselves into the doctor-patient relationship. If this boundary is crossed, why would AEG not know about when the doctor did his work and maybe what the treatments were? An employer is allowed to know what their alleged independent contractor is doing and what his work hours are.

This case really is headache inducing. You post AEG sought to insert themselves into the doctor patient relationship and crossing a boundary.

And yet the whole premise of the case is that by even agreeing to advance MJ the money for Murray, they didn’t cross the boundary enough, that they should have delved deeply into his professional and personal background. It’s a damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation. (Not that I give a damn about AEG, but just sayin...)

And the employer did know the independent contractor's hours. The employer was the patient Michael Jackson, and he dictated the hours he wanted Murray at his home. I wish he had known exactly what Murray was doing or rather not doing, then maybe he’d still be with us.

 

[bouee]

^^ yes, it's not a black and white thing.

AEG had several options, it doesn't sound contradictory to me to say that.
They could have made a cash advance and stay completly out of it, or get involved. They chose to get involved & at the beginning everything was fine.
Then problems arise, get bigger, again 2 possibilities : stay out of it and not risk getting sued, stay involved & use their involvement to try and rectify the situation.

I have this feeling that sometimes lines were crossed. The problem is that it's not a clear thing, everyone has a different idea of where the line is.

For example when Phillips rushed to Michael's house on june 25th, ad followed the ambulance to the hospital. For me, and I understand others would feel differently, it's crossing the line : he could have got in the way, and it's a private moment, family time.

As for AEG's relationship with Murray, it's entirely possible they pressured him, as they were pressuring Michael. Gongaware says it was usual for Michael to miss rehearsals in the past, and yet during TII AEG start WW3 for 5-6 missed rehearsals, threatening to cancel the tour .Murray would have lost his job, that's crossing the line again, both with Michael and Murray.

It's not clear, as you say, doctor is a very special job, they have their own rules, & you need to be very extra careful when you are a 3rd party hiring a doctor for someone else.

In my country, the medical board has templates of such contracts available online for companies/sports clubs to use, so everyone's role is clearly defined, as well as the responsabilities.

 

[AliCat]

It is interesting to note how people are overreacting from the various emails. Kenny Ortega apparently overreacted on June 19, 2009 and now Marvin Putnam is saying that Randy Phillips overreacted saying Michael Jackson was drunk and yet Paul Gongaware stated Michael Jackson neither had the smell of alcohol on his breath or was acting drunk. Jim Morrison lead singer of The Doors was definitely seen drunk and quite often near the end of his life. Whether Jim Morrison was performing in a Concert or recording an album, he was definitely drunk, which led to his untimely death at the young age of 27. In fact, the last two years, one could see a drastic change in Jim Morrison's physical appearance, he was bloated looking. Months before Jim Morrison died, Jimi Hendrix died first, then Janis Joplin, then Jim Morrison.

We watch "This Is It," Michael Jackson is not drunk at his March 5, 2009 Press Conference. He looked happy!


Gongaware said he was annoyed but not surprised when Jackson showed up a couple hours late.

“Michael really doesn’t like to do those things," Gongaware testified. "His schedules don’t always run like clockwork."

The tour announcement took place at the O2. When Jackson saw Gongaware backstage, "he came up to me and gave me a big hug and said, 'Make sure the teleprompter has big words. I don’t have my glasses.'”

Gongaware said Jackson did not smell of alcohol or appear drunk.

“He was good," the AEG executive testified. "I think he was excited."

But emails from Randy Phillips, AEG Live's chief executive and president, tell a different version. "MJ is locked in his room drunk and despondent," Phillips wrote. "I [am] trying to sober him up.

"I screamed at him so loud the walls are shaking," Phillips told him. "He is an emotionally paralyzed mess riddled with self-loathing and doubt now that it is showtime."

In a previous interview with The Times, AEG attorney Marvin Putnam said Phillips had exaggerated in his emails and that Jackson's behavior appeared to be a case of "nerves." http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-michael-jacksons-final-tour-20130531,0,7103185.story

 

[bouee]

trouble at the front ??

from PG testimony on Friday :

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts4m
On March 5, 2009, MJ held a press conference in front of O2 arena and announced the comeback tour. Gongaware was present.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts3m
MJ was not on time, late a couple of hours. Gongaware said it didn't surprise him since MJ didn't like to do those things (press conference)

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts3m
Gongaware was a little annoyed but not surprised, he testified,

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts3m
"MJ came up to me, gave me big hug, whispered in my ear 'make sure the TelePrompTer has big words, I don't have my glasses'" Gongaware said

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts2m
Putnam: Did he seem inebriated? Gongaware: No P: Drunk? G: No P: Smelled like alcohol? G: No

RP's e mail :

One of them was an email about TII press conference Phillips wrote to Leiweke that MJ was drunk and refusing to address the fans. Phillips wrote: "This is the scariest thing I have ever seen. He is an emotionally paralyzed mess riddled with self-loathing and doubt now that it's show time. He's scared to death."(CBS).

But emails from Randy Phillips, AEG Live's chief executive and president, tell a different version. "MJ is locked in his room drunk and despondent," Phillips wrote. "I [am] trying to sober him up.
"I screamed at him so loud the walls are shaking," Phillips told him. "He is an emotionally paralyzed mess riddled with self-loathing and doubt now that it is showtime."

---------------------------

Thank you everyone, I was worried as we only have one kind of 'brat' here in the UK, so it sounded REALLY wrong!

yes that's what i understood too, I am relieved !

-----------------------------

the thing is that there are only 4 days between Hougdahl's emails :

Hougdahl, in response to concerns expressed by Travis Payne about Jackson’s weight, wrote singer needed a new diet.
Email 6/15/09 from Hougdahl to Gongaware He needs some cheeseburgers w/ bunch of Wisconsin cheesehead bowlers and couple of brats and beers

Email on 6/19/09 from John Hougdahl to Randy Phillips: My laymen's degree tells me he needs a shrink to get him mentally prepared to get on stage and then a trained to get him in physical shape... (Kobe's should be available) I have watched him deteriorated in front of my eyes over the last 8 weeks. He was able to do multiple 360 spins back in April. He'd fall on his ass if he tried it now."

Same night, 19th/20th

From Hougdahl (Bugzee)to Phillips, cc'd Gongaware: MJ came out and watched all the pyro demonstration and endorsed the all the effects then went into his room and asked Kenny "you aren't going to kill the artist, are you?" We assumed this was reference to pyro, but Kenny said he was shaking and couldn't hold his knife and fork. Kenny had to cut his food for him before he could eat, and then had to use his fingers. I don't know how much embellishment there is to this, but (Kenny) said repeatedly that MJ was in no shape to go on stage. He kept going on and on how no one was taking responsibility for "getting him ready". We might be getting beyond ... damage control, here. (ABC7)

So what was funny on june 15th turned to a disaster in only 4 days ? Or 8 weeks rather ?

 

[Bubs]

Tohme, MJ's manager, told AEG about needing the money. Gongaware said Tohme emphasized several times that Michael needed to make money.

"Demand was there obviously in the presale," Gongaware said. He talked to Tohme, asked for more than 50 shows. Tohme said MJ would do 50.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
MJ knew and signed for 31 shows. I wonder did MJ really want to do those 19 extra or did Tohme signed on his behalf and MJ had no other obligation than just do them as Tohme was acting on his behalf and as his manager?



Bouee, about RP saying differently that Gonga testified, we need to hear what RP testifies. It could have been that RP was in MJ's room, got him sober (?) and when MJ appeared @02 he was sober and chewing gum can mask the smell of alcohol So it is possible that Gonga didn't see what RP saw and testified only what he saw and exprerienced.

 

[Tygger]

^^

Could I make a request ? Could you be clear in your posts in regard to your opinion and the facts? You can believe it's very possible they knew the sleep issues but there's no evidence as of now to support that. There are a lot of similar things like that.

Ivy, I will do that when all other posters agree to do the same.

It may seem to be my opinion that AEG knew about Michael’s sleep issues but, it is an opinion shared by the plaintiffs’ lawyers in the civil trial and they have attempted to discover the truth of it. Travis Payne answered in the affirmative that Michael had sleeping issues, was being treated by the doctor for his sleeping issues, it was widely known he had sleeping issues, and those sleeping issues occurred during tours. When Payne was asked if anyone at AEG knew about Michael’s sleeping issues, specifically Gongaware, Panish received objections from the defendants’ lawyers. Payne was allowed to say he thought Ortega was aware of Michael’s sleeping issues and was aware for several years.

Below quote is from the daily summaries. I checked with two other sites to see what the conflicting info was. Both sites suggest Payne said "no" when an objection was being raised.

Payne knew MJ had sleeping problems and that Dr. Murray was treating him for that. Ortega also knew; Payne thought Gongaware was aware too (ABC7) Payne also said he and Ortega knew that Jackson was having sleep problems. Attorney Brian Panish asks if AEG executives knew. There were several objections, and Payne was only allowed to answer “No” as to whether Paul Gongaware knew about Jackson’s sleep problems. (AP) (Note : There’s a conflicting info here)

Gerryevans, if AEG only advanced monies in the way a credit card company would have, AEG would have no liability and Michael would truly be the doctor’s employer. AEG did not only advance monies to Michael for the doctor and that is why there is a civil trial.

"Demand was there obviously in the presale," Gongaware said. He talked to Tohme, asked for more than 50 shows. Tohme said MJ would do 50.

Bubs, any changes like an increase of 19 performances, needed to be in writing. It was not sufficient for Tohme to verbally agree for Michael.

 

[AliCat]

When Dr. Allen Metzger testified in Conrad Murray's Trial, he had 5 pages of Michael Jackson's medical history.

Dr. Allen Metzger prescribed Xanax in 2003 and Tylenol PM in 2008 to help Michael Jackson with his insomnia. I don't see a pattern of abuse based on this alone.

Dr. Allen Metzger stated that during the HIStory Tour Michael Jackson had a hard time going to sleep after the Concerts. That would be understandable.

 

[bouee]

Bouee, about RP saying differently that Gonga testified, we need to hear what RP testifies. It could have been that RP was in MJ's room, got him sober (?) and when MJ appeared @02 he was sober and chewing gum can mask the smell of alcohol So it is possible that Gonga didn't see what RP saw and testified only what he saw and exprerienced.

yes, maybe. Here is what Putnam had to say about it :

In a previous interview with The Times, AEG attorney Marvin Putnam said Phillips had exaggerated in his emails and that Jackson's behavior appeared to be a case of "nerves."

Damage control, downplaying things AGAIN, and consistent with what AEG seem to be doing : Michael appeared to be fine, we "made sure Murray had everything he needed" , it was just a little anxiety, Michael himself said he was fine.

That's why I put Hougdahl's emails together in an earlier post. They're downplaying stuff and were worried already on the 15th, I think. The visit to Murray was not a courtesy call, since apprently Murray needed a nutritionnist and an intervention. Murray was responding to AEG's concerns, that were bigger than what they want to say now.

 

[Petrarose]

Panish did say he would spend a lot of time with Randy and Gonga, but why is Gonga still on the stand next week when he can't remember most things?

 

[Annita]

Panish did say he would spend a lot of time with Randy and Gonga, but why is Gonga still on the stand next week when he can't remember most things?

It`s Putnams questions since 1,5 days

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ws-Only-(no-discussion)?p=3833707#post3833707

 

[MsMo]

Aired May 30, 2013

MORGAN: Welcome back to PIERS MORGAN LIVE.

Searching for the smoking gun in the Jackson family lawsuit against concert promoter AEG Live. Today jurors were shown e-mails from company executives worried about Michael Jackson's health as he prepared for a comeback tour just before his death.

That's on the docket of "Law & Disorder" with my legal eagles, attorneys Tom Mesereau and Gloria Allred. I should point out that Tom Mesereau is on the plaintiff's witness list in the AEG trial.

Welcome back to both of you.

Tom, let me start with you. As you obviously have got great knowledge of this case. Key day today in many ways because Paul Gongaware, the CEO of AEG, gave his deposition, I think he's still giving it, and basically refused to answer any real questions of significance. What was going on?

THOMAS A. MESEREAU JR., CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Well, my understanding is that Brian Panitch, the lawyer for Katherine Jackson and Michael's children, who incidentally I recommended to Katherine as the best lawyer in the country to handle this case, he's been going over e-mails with Mr. Gongaware and I'm told that Mr. Gongaware is professing not to remember exactly why he did the mail or what he meant, answering very often I don't recall, I don't recall, I don't recall.

And the information I'm getting, because I'm not allowed in the courtroom because I'm a witness, is that he's not looking very truthful and looking very evasive. And if that's true, it's going to really hurt the defendants as they try and prove to the jury that they never assumed responsibility for Michael Jackson's welfare or his doctor.

MORGAN: I mean, Gloria, this is the key part of the case, really, because if it can be proven based on these pretty damning e-mails that AEG not only were aware of what was going on with Michael Jackson but were paying vast amounts of money, $150,000 to Conrad Murray, the doctor, who was there when he died, if that can be proven, that is the case done and dusted.

Is it any defense to say you don't recall sending an e-mail when there's a copy of the e-mail sitting in court?

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Well, it's a problem, Piers, because when a witness continues to say, says over and over, I don't recall, as apparently this witness has, then it starts to give the impression of untruthfulness to the jury and, in fact, it's reported that the jury began to laugh when this witness continued to say, I don't recall, and when the jury begins to laugh at the witness, it should be a cause for concern by the defense that perhaps the jury's thinking this witness is just not credible.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/30/pmt.05.html

 

[bouee]

I agree with what is said above (me ! agree with Alred ! ? It must be anything can happen week), but there's a false pieace of information : AEG didn't pay anything to Murray, they budgeted his salary, which is different.

 

[gerryevans]

Gerryevans, if AEG only advanced monies in the way a credit card company would have, AEG would have no liability and Michael would truly be the doctor’s employer. AEG did not only advance monies to Michael for the doctor and that is why there is a civil trial.

A bank that loans money, especially millions, to a project may check out the project. They may visit the site and even set certain parameters be met to ensure they won't lose their investment. But I won't further argue the point because I do agree that this was a unique situation, and the lines got blurred all over the place here.

Aired May 30, 2013

THOMAS A. MESEREAU JR., CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Well, my understanding is that Brian Panitch, the lawyer for Katherine Jackson and Michael's children, who incidentally I recommended to Katherine as the best lawyer in the country to handle this case, he's been going over e-mails with Mr. Gongaware and I'm told that Mr. Gongaware is professing not to remember exactly why he did the mail or what he meant, answering very often I don't recall, I don't recall, I don't recall.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/30/pmt.05.html

Well, this explains a lot.

Much thanks for posting.

 

[MIST]

I think AEG and Jackson family together should fund Michael Jacksons hospital for children.

 

[Mechi]

^^^^ do agree strongly!!!!! I'd just so hate to see money going into the Jacksons pockets!!!!! Then you could better burn it, it seems!

 

[smoothlugar]

Travis Payne answered in the affirmative that Michael had sleeping issues, was being treated by the doctor for his sleeping issues, it was widely known he had sleeping issues, and those sleeping issues occurred during tours. When Payne was asked if anyone at AEG knew about Michael’s sleeping issues, specifically Gongaware, Panish received objections from the defendants’ lawyers. Payne was allowed to say he thought Ortega was aware of Michael’s sleeping issues and was aware for several years.

I found something different on another board regarding what Travis Payne actually said:

(Payne is shown an email by PG):"Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face to face meeting w the doctor. We want to remind (Murray) that it is AEG, not MJ, who is paying...".
(...)
Q: Did you think it related to Mr. Ortega’s email from June 14th?
A: To my understanding, Dr. Murray was there to oversee everything, not any specific things. He was in charge of Michael.I had no reason to question that. I did not assume. I thought that the doctor that had been selected to work with Michael was top notch.

(Later):
Q: Did you have an understanding of Dr. Murray’s role with Mr. Jackson?
A: Yes, it was my understanding he was there to oversee everything to do with Michael, like it states in his job description.

BTW: Why to mention the doc's "job description"? Why should Travis P. know about that?

EDIT: I forgot this also:

Q: You say yesterday that Mr. Jackson was tired. Do you know why?
Panish: Objection.
Judge: Overruled.
A: Michael explained to me he had trouble sleeping. But he was excited about touring again, that was it.

 

[ivy]

Ivy, I will do that when all other posters agree to do the same.

I'll still repeat my request and please clarify what you are saying. when it's a not a fact let's not act like a fact.

It may seem to be my opinion that AEG knew about Michael’s sleep issues but, it is an opinion shared by the plaintiffs’ lawyers

and you get offended when I say "jacksons and you"

in the civil trial and they have attempted to discover the truth of it. Travis Payne answered in the affirmative that Michael had sleeping issues, was being treated by the doctor for his sleeping issues, it was widely known he had sleeping issues, and those sleeping issues occurred during tours. When Payne was asked if anyone at AEG knew about Michael’s sleeping issues, specifically Gongaware, Panish received objections from the defendants’ lawyers. Payne was allowed to say he thought Ortega was aware of Michael’s sleeping issues and was aware for several years.

Below quote is from the daily summaries. I checked with two other sites to see what the conflicting info was. Both sites suggest Payne said "no" when an objection was being raised.

Ortega might know it and it doesn't mean a thing. Ortega is not AEG and he's not a plaintiff. Unless Ortega talked to other people what he knew is irrelevant.

As for Gongaware Payne replied "no", meaning he did not know Michael's sleep problems.

So it could be your belief that he knew, however there's no solid evidence that shows he did

conflicting info was abc7 saying Payne thought Gongaware was aware while as AP said Payne replied "no" when asked about Gongaware.

I found something different on another board regarding what Travis Payne actually said:

please do not copy from any other site any transcript or any report.