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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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I wouldnt say its contridictary. faye is talking about the weeks before and stacy is talking about the days before.

are the jurrors gonna get to see any of the TII as its important to the arguments.

so the judge shows her biased side again. i presume aeg will be able to ask murray about his interview when hes on the stand.get the transcript out? or will the judge block that. reminds me to a lesser extent of the mike tyson case
 
ivy said:
what we learned is that Kenny actually sent more than one email about this so he was the one that was making noise. It's also important to remember that I think Phillips is saying that after meeting with Murray. I'm thinking Murray was convincing that Michael was fine and they left that meeting thinking "oh Kenny is exaggerating"
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Yes, thanks I understand that. Still, calling Kenny hysterical says a lot about the person who uses that word. Kenny knew Michael very well, he has worked with him several times during 20 years. Coming from Kenny, it has nothing to do with hysteria, it means there was a real problem. As I wrote, I understand they were relieved, they still should have taken what Kenny said seriously, instead of ridiculing him.
In the end, Philips let Murray shut Kenny up. "Don't play the psycholgist" or something to that effect. Murray was not very nice either, if I recall what Kenny said.
In my world, this kind of attitude (hysteria) is called bullying, and this can have consequences on the people around.
As we say here, Phillips missed a great occasion to keep his mouth shut. It gives a very bad impression of him.
 
Victory22 said:
It's important to understand that AEG were not the only ones who invested money in the This Is It shows. MICHAEL put up large sums of his own money for production cost that AEG was going to reimburse him for so it was in fact a partnership. Both parties had a lot to lose if the shows were cancelled.
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What money did aeg invest in tii that they were going to lose? MJ was ultimately paying for tii, aeg were going to collect whether mj went ahead with the tour or not, mj was obliged to pay the costs back even if the tour was cancelled.


bouee said:
About the cash advance : I understand Michael must have asked for it, but why did AEG accept to advance personal money (debts/house in vegas/etc...) I understand why they pay the production costs, but I don't understand why they would do that. It sounds too much for me, that's not right. It gives them a weird unhealthy leverage on Michael.
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This isn't usual practise at all. An author doesn't ask a publisher to rent her a home while she writes a book and i don't see madonna or someone requiring her concert promotor to rent somewhere for her and her family to live for 7 months before a tour. It's all to do with mj strickened financial circumstances - asset rich but cash poor and borrowed to the max. In in the murray trial didn't phillips testify that mj told him during the tii negotiations that he was tired of being a vagabond with his family and presumably wanted somewhere nice to live. Mj even had the tii contract include some $millions to pay the sheik lawsuit off from the end of 08. To claim that aeg didn't know about mj's massive debt situation is ludicrous - they knew they were having to pay for everything in mj's life.
 
Probably because Murray is the convicted criminal and his interview had been proved nothing but lies in criminal trial so this judge not allowed to use Murray's police interview?
 
While i agree that it was well reported about the debt and they cant play dum. its also normal practice to advance. what the artist /author does with that advance is upto them and re the L.A house. mj was living in vegas and had to move to L.A for the purpose of the shows so i dont see it strange that AEG would advance money for the house.its like if u get a job and have to move to another area the company may give you an allowance or a bridging loan on a house
 
loveforever;3823276 said:
Probably because Murray is the convicted criminal and his interview had been proved nothing but lies in criminal trial so this judge not allowed to use Murray's police interview?
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Possibly, but what I don't understand is why the Jacksons are allowed to use some of the interview.

elusive moonwalker;3823278 said:
While i agree that it was well reported about the debt and they cant play dum. its also normal practice to advance. what the artist /author does with that advance is upto them and re the L.A house. mj was living in vegas and had to move to L.A for the purpose of the shows so i dont see it strange that AEG would advance money for the house.its like if u get a job and have to move to another area the company may give you an allowance or a bridging loan on a house
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I think we need to be clear that AEG are not saying that they didn't know Michael had debts.

Putnam shows a slide that says Michael’s debt was $232.2 Million in 2001 and by the time of his death from 2007 to 2009 he was about $400 Million in debt. He says AEG knew Michael had financial difficulties but they didn’t know it was $400 Million.
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From my earlier post, can anyone remember where it was said that Murray told someone (can't remember who) not to pander to Michael, kinda like he was play acting at being unwell, or did I dream it?

Anthony McCartney &#8207;<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187);">@</s>mccartneyAP<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px;">1m</small>
Katherine Jackson, Rebbie and Trent have arrived for today's Jackson's vs AEG session. Travis Payne resumes testifying in a few mins.
 
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LastTear said:
From my earlier post, can anyone remember where it was said that Murray told someone (can't remember who) not to pander to Michael, kinda like he was play acting at being unwell, or did I dream it?
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Sorry, I don't remember anything like that, though it sounds like something he would say.
 
last tear said:
I think we need to be clear that AEG are not saying that they didn't know Michael had debts.
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No way can aeg just say that they only knew mj had 'financial difficulties'. Phillips is on record saying pre 25 june that this tour is a do or die situation for mj and that he was spending his time firefighting all the difficulties and lawsuits in mj's life. The way they tried to make a distinction between public mj (big spending celeb with incredibly expensive lifestyle) and private mj (debt ridden, spending more than he earned) is not remotely credible. Everyone and his wife knew mj was in massive debt, thanks roger. As with the debt, so with the drugs, aeg are just trying to act totally clueless about any of the news stories that had been circulating about mj in the past decade.

@elusive - take your point about mj needing an la home for tii rehearsals, (that he didn't seem to attend that much). I still feel it's a v unusual situation for such a massive star to be so dependent on a concert promotor to have to advance money for such expenses.
 
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bouee;3823203 said:
Kenny sounds like he tried to stand up to them and lost the battle. (...)
No wonder certain people felt they were not doing anything, (...)

AEG is basically saying they didn't know about propofol. Of course they didn't. That's what the Jacksons are saying, they SHOULD have known, they're not saying AEG knew and chose to ignore it. Jacksons are saying they ignored the red flags, which led them to not properly evaluate the situation, and pressured the doctor.
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The “hysterical” comment made by Phillips in reference to Ortega’s concern, followed by his comment that “the doctor was extremely successful” and they “had checked eveyone out”, for me shows that Phillips did not do enough and lied. Those words in bold were unnecessary and have proved false. So I think that could be crucial for the jury to determine whether AEG reacted in the expected correct way once they knew there were serious concerns.

Of course, there are many other things to come we still don't know that could reduce the impact of these lies (e.g., full context of email where those words appear...).
 
Bonnie Blue said:
No way can aeg just say that they only knew mj had 'financial difficulties'. Phillips is on record saying pre 25 june that this tour is a do or die situation for mj and that he was spending his time firefighting all the difficulties and lawsuits in mj's life. The way they tried to make a distinction between public mj (big spending celeb with incredibly expensive lifestyle) and private mj (debt ridden, spending more than he earned) is not remotely credible. Everyone and his wife knew mj was in massive debt, thanks roger. As with the debt, so with the drugs, aeg are just trying to act totally clueless about any of the news stories that had been circulating about mj in the past decade.

@elusive - take your point about mj needing an la home for tii rehearsals, (that he didn't seem to attend that much). I still feel it's a v unusual situation for such a massive star to be so dependent on a concert promotor to have to advance money for such expenses.
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I understand completely what you are saying, I am just pointing out exactly what the AEG lawyer, Putman, said in the opening, they did confirm that they knew he had financial difficulties - but didn't know it was $400 million.
 
LastTear said:
From my earlier post, can anyone remember where it was said that Murray told someone (can't remember who) not to pander to Michael, kinda like he was play acting at being unwell, or did I dream it?
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What do you mean?
Do you mean that tough love thingy that was shown Michael and KF, Kenny o and others had to do what thye were told. That tought love wasn't from any people from AEG, it came from CM, and that was his solution to get MJ to rehearsals, and when KF called to CM that MJ complained being cold, he said to her to wrap him in blankets.
 
It might have been within the tough love statement, but idk, it was the first time I had heard that someone was told to ignore Michael and not to pander to him. But honestly I am starting to doubt myself now, i'm sure if it happened it will re-surface again.
 
Some contradiction in the media here:

Anthony McCartney &#8207;@mccartneyAP2m
Cahan also asked whether he ever concluded that any other doctors contributed to Jackson&#8217;s death. &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe so,&#8221; Roger said.
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ABC7 Court News &#8207;@ABC7Courts 15m
Def atty: Did any other doctor, other than Dr. Murray, contributed to MJ's death?
Dr. Rogers: Yes, other doctors contributed to his death
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Rogers also said that &#8220;other doctors contributed to Jackson&#8217;s death,&#8221; but did not go into details.
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Which one is the correct answer? It would be strange if he's saying other docs contributed to his death.
 
Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 13h
@NorthernWitchy @BLANAIDXLIVES @ivy That was the answer I tweeted, which was a quote.
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Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 13h
@NorthernWitchy @BLANAIDXLIVES @ivy ... other doctors, but I believe there was only 1 question about other docs contributing to MJ's death.
View conversation
Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 13h
@NorthernWitchy @BLANAIDXLIVES @ivy I never heard Dr. Rogers say any other doctors contributed to MJ's death. There was testimony about ...
 
Just finished reading the opening statements presented by both parties.

Question:

The doctors who "claim" that Michael inquired about Propofol, are they really allowed to discuss conversations they had with Michael? I mean, does patient/doctor confidentiality cease to exist when a patient dies, or are they compelled to answer questions because they were subpoeaned?
 
Big Apple2 said:
Just finished reading the opening statements presented by both parties.

Question:

The doctors who "claim" that Michael inquired about Propofol, are they really allowed to discuss conversations they had with Michael? I mean, does patient/doctor confidentiality cease to exist when a patient dies, or are they compelled to answer questions because they were subpoeaned?
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normally they can't. doctor - patient confidentiality survive death. however they were subpoenaed and answered questions during discovery. those were marked confidential and were conditionally under seal. Given that Estate has lost their motion to seal, such information / testimony/ medical records will now become public.
 
I am just :bugeyed at how hard the Jackson's are working to win this lawsuit. They appear willing to do or say anything. Isn't it a damn shame they didn't extend a little of this effort and energy to Michael... I bet he would have appreciated a little support if it came with no strings attached.
 
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thanks Ivy. Hopefully ABC and the LATimes got it wrong and what AP tweeted is the correct answer.
 
serendipity said:
thanks Ivy. Hopefully ABC and the LATimes got it wrong and what AP tweeted is the correct answer.
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How could ABC and LA times make such stupid mistake! If the coroner believed there are other doctors contributing to Michael's death , he would addressed it in the autopsy and in criminal trial. In Murray trial, His defense team tried everything to blame this on anyone but Murray.
 
Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
I feel bad for Kenny also. He really tried to help Michael. And I respect him for that.
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Me too . I think Kenny is not a bad guy by any means no way . I think his genuine concern was overlooked .:thinking:
Thank you for continued updates .
 
What does lethargic and loopy mean? I am reading what Travis said and he said Michael sometimes after seeing Klein seemed loopy and then sometimes he was lethargic and needed support to rehearse. I liked what he said about Michael and how he was a great dad. That's important. I read he came to court wearing a jacket with MJ initials with wings on his shoulders.
 
^^ Lethargic mean .. weak tired.. lazy feeling
loopy is a slang means befuddled confused..possibley from drugs or alchahol

MJ was getting demeral at Kleins for procedures so afterwards he would
sometimes be be a little lethargic or loopy ..
 
serendipity;3823394 said:
thanks Ivy. Hopefully ABC and the LATimes got it wrong and what AP tweeted is the correct answer.
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I believe Anthony McCartney &#8207;@mccartneyAP because he quoted an exact phrase he heard. &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe so,&#8221; the other just put yes -LATimes probably copied from ABC notes. McCartney sayshe reviewed the transcript and his own notes and he is correct.

Anthony McCartney &#8207;@mccartneyAP1m
My reporting that he responded &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe so,&#8221; is correct. I've reviewed the transcript and my notes.

Anthony McCartney &#8207;@mccartneyAP 1m
Some folks asked about discrepancy in reporting about Dr. Rogers&#8217; testimony yesterday of roles other doctor&#8217;s played in Jackson&#8217;s death.
 
The whole teleprompter idea kind of concerns me. Michael never used that before. Was it for updates or just for the songs? When I read these testimonies whoever it is I just get this awful feeling in my stomach. Then I see the headlines that Michael was loopy at rehearsals. It's hard to see.
 
Mechi said:
What's the reason not allow the interview? I don't get this either. Either it's valid what's in there or it's not. It can't be taken as evidence for only one side... that's ridiculous.
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Pro jackson? with letting the child allegations that AEG asked to be in the trial is not pro jackson all the way to me though
 
I have to say I liked the way Travis answered his questions on the stand--at least the little we know from what the reporters give us. Also, he was the only one who linked the behavior witnessed after coming from Klien to a specific cause, i.e., Michael's cosmetic procedures. Right now my best witnesses so far are Rogers, Anderson, & Travis.

I guess AEG is listing all the decisions the judge made that will help with an appeal.
 
Vici said:
-Karen Faye has said on FB and Twitter (although not on trial I believe) that she told her boyfriend week(s) leading up to his death that she was worried and thought Michael would die before opening night.
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Karen is pathetic. :sigh: She was soooooooooo worried about her friend and did absolutely nothing. :blink:


It's so sad to see so many stories being told by other people. It is an avalanche of informations that we do not know what is truth or lie about what was really going on with Michael. I and we were not there to know what was really going on and worse, do not know to what extent these people are telling the truth or are lying or omitting many things.... I do not trust 1000% in any of these people. Never! :nono: Unfortunately, Michael is not here to clarify everything :( and I just can not believe in this people :nono: ... only Michael and nobody else. -_- But as he is not here :( I'll have forever a big question mark in my mind and a lot of questions that will never have answers. This whole thing is never completely clarified. *big sigh*
 
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The only thing I see people agree on pretty much is that Michael was great those last 2 rehearsals. Everything else is like different stories or thoughts on what was going on. It is hard to know who is telling the truth. I don't know what to think to be honest.
 
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