Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Petrarose]

Wow. Two thoughts come to mind: 1) what an out-of-control courtroom; and (2), Kenny must have rocked his testimony on behalf of AEG. Doesn't sound like good news for the plaintiffs or the jury is totally impatient & wanting to move on.

Yeap. Your idea that it might be good news for the plaintiffs is interesting. From reading the tweets you feel his concern, love, and respect of Michael. After all the drug talk about a man with 1 week to live and who couldn't earn a dime after TII, he makes Micahel come alive as a human who really knew what he was doing and was capable of doing it. Since this came from a male it adds a different type of weight to his evidence.

 

[mdiegee210]

I guest they felt like they got some Honest Testimony today.

 

[crillon]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and be brutally honest

there's an assumption that Michael's death would have been avoided if AEG said "we won't hire you a doctor, hire your own doctor", "we won't hire murray, find another doctor who is not in debt and/or another specialty" or "murray you are terrible doctor you are fired". While all of these would have removed any responsibility from AEG and this trial wouldn't be happening, you cannot say if it would have saved Michael's life.

If you look to this realistically, Murray have been in Michael's life for 3 years. Murray was calling Adams about anesthesia, Murray was participating in meetings with Adams about anesthesia and ordering Propofol in April. This is a month before AEG even became aware of Murray. So it's not like Murray only came into picture after AEG, he only started treatment when he was offered job and he would disappear if he didn't get the job.

Technically Michael did not need Murray to be on written contract or hire him. Even if AEG flat out refused to advance money / hire a doctor, got another doctor or fired Murray, Michael could have said to Murray "f**k AEG, here's $20,000 in cash" and Murray still could have been providing his "treatment" on the down low with no official employment and no paperwork. Also Michael could have found another doctor.

So it's speculative to say AEG refusing to not retain Murray would have removed Murray and/or Propofol from Michael's life.

I think that's the absolute truth--AEG's role was irrelevant to Michael's survival. Had Murray not been hired, there would have been someone else, because having a private doctor to administer propofol was Michael's idea, not AEG's idea.

 

[Petrarose]

-Ortega said he disagrees with anyone who says there's no way MJ could've done 50 shows.
^^Thanks for that Ortega. It is good to hear at least 1 person has some faith in Michael's ability to perform.

I see the jurors were writing a lot during Ortega's testimony. Ortega also said Michael was responsible for his health, which is true. I hope the jury agrees.

I feel Ortega scored well for the defense. However, I thought it was a good move that during cross Panish brought up the buying of the medical equipment, so he was able to bring back the focus on AEG buying things for muarry to use. He even told Kenny to assume AEG hired Muarry. I wonder what the jury thought of that?

Anyone notice the way that TMZ article in the news thread is written?

I know we speculated that Muarry must have stopped the prof for a short time, and it caused the big difference in Michael's behavior on the 23 & 24. However, sometimes I still wonder about what could have possible happened to cause such a drastic change? One would think you will need a whole week of no meds to have such a great recovery. If he could be so phenomenal in such a such time frame, can you imagine what an incredible show we would have had if Michael had a different method to sleep and Muarry remained in Vegas?

Kenny mentioned Vegas and I agree that Michael would not enjoy something like that. I never thought Michael would go sit in Vegas and perform a few nights a week for tourists. To me, something like that would not motivate him.

 

[marebear]

I believe that Kenny does love and cared about Michael. He really wanted Michael to succeed and believed in him. I think Kenny and Prince were real and honest in what they said in this trial. Others make Michael look like he was nothing. I don't care which side your on with this trial, the way Michael has been treated has been disgusting. He deserves better.

 

[Petrarose]

I believe that Kenny does love and cared about Michael. He really wanted Michael to succeed and believed in him. I think Kenny and Prince were real and honest in what they said in this trial. Others make Michael look like he was nothing. I don't care which side your on with this trial, the way Michael has been treated has been disgusting. He deserves better.

I agree, and I think the jury was on negative overload, and needed some relief from something more positive. The jury was also on "he is making faces at me" overload too. That is why they groaned when they heard Panish trying to attempt this again.

 

[ivy]

Wow. Two thoughts come to mind: 1) what an out-of-control courtroom; and (2), Kenny must have rocked his testimony on behalf of AEG. Doesn't sound like good news for the plaintiffs or the jury is totally impatient & wanting to move on.

I do wonder if he did something or said something - like a joke - when he was leaving the stand and that prompted applauding.

If nothing special happened Kenny is actually a very likable witness. If you look to Murray trial, he's relaxed, has good manners, calm, polite, positive, loving. Or jurors are just gets happy when a person finishes testimony in this never ending trial..

 

[8701girl]

I think they applauded because Ortega wasn't calling Michael a drug addict, with slurred speech. When he gave MJ suggestions MJ would smile and say OKAY, IN A VERY LOVING WAY.

Maybe they are also fans of his previous work that he has done that could be they like him

 

[crillon]

I believe that Kenny does love and cared about Michael. He really wanted Michael to succeed and believed in him. I think Kenny and Prince were real and honest in what they said in this trial. Others make Michael look like he was nothing. I don't care which side your on with this trial, the way Michael has been treated has been disgusting. He deserves better.

ITA. People can claim they "love" someone, but actions say it all. Who can forget Kenny's testimony in the criminal trial when he recounted "rubbing Michael's feet to warm him up," feeding him and listening to an anxious, shivering Michael with compassion & then advocating to get him help. To me, that goes way beyond a business relationship--that's showing love, care and respect.

 

[8701girl]

^^She is gone to India with Grace, and they'll be slapping each other .

:lmao: :lmao: CATFIGHTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

 

[crillon]

Murray should have been fired for getting MJ worse.. When Murray took over Mike's health, Mike got worse.

Michael seemed pleased with Murray (evidenced by the Carollwood meeting with the AEG execs) and if he wasn't, he would have fired him. But, he did not because Murray was providing (what Michael thought) was the solution for his insomnia. That's the primary reason Michael hired him--to give him propofol.

 

[bouee]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and be brutally honest

there's an assumption that Michael's death would have been avoided if AEG said "we won't hire you a doctor, hire your own doctor", "we won't hire murray, find another doctor who is not in debt and/or another specialty" or "murray you are terrible doctor you are fired". While all of these would have removed any responsibility from AEG and this trial wouldn't be happening, you cannot say if it would have saved Michael's life.

If you look to this realistically, Murray have been in Michael's life for 3 years. Murray was calling Adams about anesthesia, Murray was participating in meetings with Adams about anesthesia and ordering Propofol in April. This is a month before AEG even became aware of Murray. So it's not like Murray only came into picture after AEG, he only started treatment when he was offered job and he would disappear if he didn't get the job.

Technically Michael did not need Murray to be on written contract or hire him. Even if AEG flat out refused to advance money / hire a doctor, got another doctor or fired Murray, Michael could have said to Murray "f**k AEG, here's $20,000 in cash" and Murray still could have been providing his "treatment" on the down low with no official employment and no paperwork. Also Michael could have found another doctor.

So it's speculative to say AEG refusing to not retain Murray would have removed Murray and/or Propofol from Michael's life.

I agree with this, and never said that it was certain AEG could have avoided that. I don't know why you quoted me in this post. AEG is on trial becasue they negligently hired, supervised & retained Murray. This is true in my opinion. No one knows what would have happened if AEG was not in the picture. But they got themselves into the picture.

Interesting aricle written by Dr. Sanjay Gupta on CNN today re medical marijuana and how marijuana was made on class 1 drug, meaning the top category along with heroin etc, back in 1970 when there was no research on it that suggested it was harmful, and since it was made a class 1 drug and illegal, it is almost impossible to do research on it b/c it is hard to obtain it legally!! So scientists are hampered. Sanjay initially was against medical marijuana and now he is for it and CNN is doing a series called "Weed" on this subject. Medical marijuana is used to treat a number of problems including pain, nausea, seizures, anxiety, etc. Gupta says 20 states have legalized medical marijuana.

I bring this up b/c Bouee spoke about how if you're in pain, you get presribed opiates that are addictive (like morphine, etc).
.

yes I just read it before coming to this forum. Very very interesting, some countries have been legalising it for some time now. Too early I guess for a real scientific validation, but it might prove less addictive than opium derivated pain killers.

 

[Tygger]

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Jurors were laughing out loud with the exchange between the attorneys. The director kept his composure and responded to all questions.
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Putnam and Panish took turns in asking out-of-the-ordinary questions regarding responsibility to Ortega.

This would be one of the reasons for the applause and I very much agree with the jurors. However, I do believe Ortega gave great testimony. He did not favor either side purposefully. He told his truth and each side can take from it what they will. Could also be that the plaintiffs have finally ended their case.

So it's speculative to say AEG refusing to not retain Murray would have removed Murray and/or Propofol from Michael's life.

Ivy, who said this? This is a wrongful death trial and AEG is being sued because the plaintiffs believe AEG is culpable in their loved one’s passing. You yourself have often said the criminal trial was based on the doctor being a substantial factor in Michael’s passing not the absolute factor in Michael’s passing which is true. The same is happening here with AEG.

The truth is AEG should NOT have sought a relationship with the doctor. Because of the relationship, they allowed themselves to be exposed to liability which is why they are in court now. When they took on the responsibility to allegedly hire the doctor, they also took on the responsibility of vetting the doctor to ensure he would do the job he was allegedly hire to do. It was not enough to accept him because Michael referred him. There are so many risks involved with Michael’s passing (or someone else) as the worst case scenario and that is exactly where they found themselves.

With Klein, AEG gave Michael the advance. This is why I continually repeat the difference between Klein and the doctor. No one in this thread has been able to explain why - if the doctor was to be paid with an advance – the doctor had a relationship with AEG and Michael where Klein obviously did NOT have a relationship with AEG and Michael.

I will say this in defense of those who do believe Michael would not have passed if the doctor was not allegedly hired: the doctor would not be in Michael’s life. This doctor happened to be in debt and he was not going to take Michael as a charity case client. If he decided to remain with Michael pending some payment plan he and Michael decided on that was independent of AEG drafting an employment contract, that would be between the doctor and Michael and AEG would not be in court today.

However, I seriously doubt this doctor would accept the lower number of monies Michael would provide because the doctor was in debt. I truly do not see this doctor remaining with Michael without the alleged employment contract which secured a much higher number of monies.

Maybe remove Michael from the situation, remove death, simplify the situation, place ourselves inside, and a wonderful doctor instead. Perfect? Absolutely NOT; there is still a problem.

If this was anyone of us, would anyone of us want our employer to hire our personal doctor and have our doctor dependent upon our employer? Choose an ailment or be perfectly healthy. What happens when the doctor does not meet the obligations as required by our employer and now our doctor that we have depended on and feel comfortable with for whatever reason is gone solely because our employer said so? Would that not leave us at a distinct disadvantage? How is that situation not dangerous for us?

 

[bouee]

I do wonder if he did something or said something - like a joke - when he was leaving the stand and that prompted applauding.

If nothing special happened Kenny is actually a very likable witness. If you look to Murray trial, he's relaxed, has good manners, calm, polite, positive, loving. Or jurors are just gets happy when a person finishes testimony in this never ending trial..

I thought it was because Kenny spent quite some time answering questions that had nothing to do with him , and he patiently did so.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1 h

When the director got up, all jurors clapped for him. He thanked the jurors, kissed Mrs. Jackson, shook hands with Shawn Trell and left.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1 h

Ortega was dismissed, subject to recall in AEG's case in chief.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1 h

Jurors were laughing out loud with the exchange between the attorneys. The director kept his composure and responded to all questions.
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Putnam and Panish took turns in asking out-of-the-ordinary questions regarding responsibility to Ortega.

 

[Soundmind]

I think that's the absolute truth--AEG's role was irrelevant to Michael's survival. Had Murray not been hired, there would have been someone else, because having a private doctor to administer propofol was Michael's idea, not AEG's idea.

No doctor would have done the 17 deviations from standard of care combined which caused MJ's death. Like Schaffer said eventhough propofol is not a sleep aid it's a great drug and safe if administered by a specialist .

 

[Bubs]

"Outside the presence of the jury, AEG attorney told judge he will be done 1st week of Sept or so. Panish said he has 4 rebuttal witnesses."

Ivy, I have a question about that rebuttal thingy. Is Panish going to bring 4 of his witnesses that already testified, or can he bring someone who hasn't testified previously?
---------------------------------
Putnam showed Ortega a "Certificate of Employment -- Loan-Out," which Ortega said it's certificate that he works for The K.O. Company, Inc.
AEG Live had an agreement with K.O. Company for the services of Ortega.
Putnam: Did you understand you were an employee of AEG Live?
Ortega: No
P: What were you employee of?
O: K.O. Company
Ortega's contract was executed on April 26, 2009. "I believe I was paid in advance of signing," Ortega said.
In his deposition, Ortega was shown documents to refresh his recollection. Putnam showed him the same documents.
Ortega looked at the document and said he was paid on May 11, 2009, which is after he signed his contract.
Putnam: You were paid after the contract was executed, right?
Ortega: That's what appears in this document.
Ortega said he has put himself in the position of working prior to signing a contract. "It's what I call working in good faith."
"It's sort of common in the industry," Ortega said.
Putnam: If you don't reach an agreement, you could work and not get paid?
Ortega: Yes

KO's situation was very similar than CM. Both worked for themselves, started working before contract was signed, and didn't get paid untill contract was fully executed. Also KO said that he was there only because MJ wanted him, just like MJ wanted CM.
----------------------
"Final say would be Michael," Ortega said. "Michael had final creative say."
Putnam: Why?
Ortega: Because he was brilliant and he knew what he was doing.
"At the end of the day, creatively, we trusted Michael knew what we needed," Ortega said.

You got to love Kenny. There has been enough of testimonies talking crap about MJ, but Kenny always have been respectful, and never forgot to mention how brilliant MJ was.
--------------------

Putnam: Do you think it's responsible for a studio to hire Kenny Ortega if he were in debt?
Ortega: I've been there and they hired me.

I have a feeling that there are some people in jury that has been there, and agrees with KO
-----------
Putnam and Panish took turns in asking out-of-the-ordinary questions regarding responsibility to Ortega.
Jurors were laughing out loud with the exchange between the attorneys. The director kept his composure and responded to all questions.
When the director got up, all jurors clapped for him. He thanked the jurors, kissed Mrs. Jackson, shook hands with Shawn Trell and left.

If I were there, I would have kissed him. He did great job :clapping:

 

[bouee]

I found these of interest from today.

This is good for those who felt AEG knew it was drugs, and Muarry was causing it and should have been fired:

-Putnam: You have never seen Mr. Jackson like that before? Ortega: No.
-Putnam: It never crossed your mind it could be drug related? Ortega: No, I was thinking it was something else.
- Ortega: It didn't appear to me it was drugs, it appeared to me it was something else, emotional.
- "I supposed I might have suggested it could look that way," Ortega said. "It would've been a really, really bad flu."
- Putnam asked if Ortega testified before he thought MJ had a really bad case of flu.
-Ortega: I think they were trying to create a schedule to factor in all of Michael's needs


[/I]

Actually the drug idea came from Branca and Phillips himself (Klein).

Ortega said again that he thought Murray was not doing a good job, confirmed that Phillips told him Murray was responsible for Michael's schedule as of june 15th (so there were problems before) , and Ortega said again that Phillips witnessed Murray being agressive to Ortega on june 20th, saying that Michael was OK and able to do the shows.
Phillips had info from Branca , Hougdahl, Kenny and possibly Karen -it was not the first problem, and he still believed Murray when he said Michael was fine ?

 

[Bubs]

Karen dislikes Grace alot. She believes Grace & Raymone kept MJ away from her. She first started to talk shit about Grace months after MJ passed.

She hates Grace too? Didn't KF testify something similar in this trial that somebody was trying to keep her away from MJ?
I have to say, Mike had more than his share of looney people around him.

 

[Bubs]

I'm looking forward Randy's testimony video today.

Does anyone remember whether his deposition was before or after the infamous letter:
She is being hit from all sides. AEG is now evoking fear into our mother in an attempt to convince her to call off the wrongful death lawsuit against AEG. AEG has been very vocal about how they are going to destroy her and her family publicly and blame her for Michael’s death. Since then, they’ve waisted no time harassing each and every family member, including Michael’s children in a barrage of depositions, where they are asking personal, inappropriate and disrespectful questions that, to say the least, have nothing to do with his passing. This is something children should never have to experience; neither should an eighty-two year old woman. There has been no objection from you, the executors of Michael’s estate, regarding AEG heinous and heartless threats toward our mother, our family or his children. Why?"


I'm sorry but this letter still makes me laugh out loud. According to Randy, AEG should have not question KJ or kids, but just roll over and hand out the money. Delusional much

 

[Annita]

Actually the drug idea came from Branca and Phillips himself (Klein).

Ortega said again that he thought Murray was not doing a good job, confirmed that Phillips told him Murray was responsible for Michael's schedule as of june 15th (so there were problems before) , and Ortega said again that Phillips witnessed Murray being agressive to Ortega on june 20th, saying that Michael was OK and able to do the shows.
Phillips had info from Branca , Hougdahl, Kenny and possibly Karen -it was not the first problem, and he still believed Murray when he said Michael was fine ?

He didn`t have info from Branca. Branca asked in his mail if it coul be something drug-related. Phillips worte he didn`t know if is chemcial or psychilogic.

 

[bouee]

He didn`t have info from Branca. Branca asked in his mail if it coul be something drug-related. Phillips worte he didn`t know if is chemcial or psychilogic.

yes :

from Branca :

Email from John Branca to Phillips, Gongaware, Joel Katz, Frank DiLeo, Michael Kane on 6/20/09 : "I have the right therapist/spiritual advisor/substance abuse counselor who could help (recently helped Mike Tyson get sober and paroled) Do we know whether there is a substance issue involved (perhaps better discussed on the phone). (ABC7)

from Phillips :

Email from Phillips to Gongaware on 6/20/09 at 1:52 am : Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow, however, I'm not sure what the problem is Chemical or Physiological? (ABC7)

And that interesting conversation that I had forgotten about , on june 23rd

On Jun 23, Michael Kane wrote to DiLeo and Phillips: Where does Arnold Klein stand on the list? (of doctors caring for MJ). "He scares us to death because he is shooting him up with something," Phillips wrote back. Kane responded: Well since we owe him $48k and he wants payment maybe I should stop paying him and he'll stop shooting him up. I have the details of what he is doing

So Branca was suspecting drugs, and so was Phillips.
Murray blatantly lied to him several times, and he never suspected Murray. OK .

 

[Big Apple2]

When the director got up, all jurors clapped for him. He thanked the jurors, kissed Mrs. Jackson, shook hands with Shawn Trell and left.

WOW, JUST WOW!

I been around for a good minute and have to admit that I have NEVER heard anything like that before. Never Ever!

But Kenny Ortega comes off as a very likeable guy, in my opinion. Like a favorite, trusted uncle.

He knows how to keep his cool regardless to who is asking the questions.

Man, Alan Duke must have had a heartattack when that happened. I mean that type of jury response doesn't bode well for an Alan Duke headline. Know what I mean!

 

[gerryevans]

Margaret Carrero ?@MargaretCarrero 59m
A first in court: #Jackson jury applauds as This Is It tour director Kenny Ortega wraps up his testimony. @KNX1070 @CBSLA

such an interesting event. I wonder if there was a reason for it

Wait a minute...eye blink...the jury APPLAUDED...what in the world kind of courtroom does that judge have going on...

Sounds like the jury is just utterly frustrated. With the case, with the theatrics from the lawyers on both sides, with the judge's lack of maintaining some kind of focus, and just are tired of still being there. Kenny must have said some things that were straight up and no nonsense to them in the midst of lots of nonsense.

Only with a MJ case... applause by the jury during the trial...LOL unreal

 

[Vici]

She hates Grace too? Didn't KF testify something similar in this trial that somebody was trying to keep her away from MJ?
I have to say, Mike had more than his share of looney people around him.

Yes, she dislikes Grace. She said that she loved Grace in the beginning but as time went she started to dislike her and told jurors she didnt believe Grace was good for MJ, especially during the trial in 2005. I had heard the story Paris told in her deposition (Grace crawling into MJs bed) before because Karen had already told fans about it on her FB after MJ died. She has told many stories about Grace to fans. I think the main thing is that she felt both Grace and Raymone tried to block her from having any contact with MJ.

Its interesting because we have ppl like Kenny Ortega claiming otherwise that it could be frustrating to work with Karen because she wanted to have MJ for herself and started to call the shots (that was NOT his exact words). Remember Congaware saying in an email they wanted her to go because she was starting to show those signs again.

 

[twinklEE]

Kenny has always been nothing but respectful toward MJ. You can see he really had great love, admiration for Michael then and now.

 

[Vici]

Hmmm is it really fair to say that both Kenny and Murray were in same position re contracts/hiring etc? The thing they have in common is that Michael wanted them... BUT Kenny was an employee of his own company, K.O. Company. AEG had an agreement with K.O. Company for the services of Ortega. Thats the same thing with Karen Faye. She's an employee of Zilk Inc (Taunya Zilkies company) and AEG had an agreement with Zilk Inc for Karens services. Thats not the case with Murray. He had no company of any kind, right?

Its just like with these staffing/contractor companies (KO Company/Zilk) that hires consultants to companies (AEG). Of course the consultants are not hired by the companies they offer their services to, but rather to their staffing/contractor companies. But Murray didnt have his own company to be employed by.

How does Murray fit in all of this? Esp when his contract was the only one that needed MJs signature and not all other contractors like Kenny and Karen.

 

[passy001]

I would like to admit that I don't follow this trial so religiously like most of you on this forum.

I would also like to concede that of all the zillion people that have testified to date, Kenny Ortega (KO) testimony was by far the most useful. the rest, especially experts on both sides, were expensive distractions, bringing little to no substance to the case.

KO really helped a lot and his testimony does in my view hurt the plaintiffs more than it does help them.

here are some excepts which i think will highly influence the jury final verdict.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 8m
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where artist was unable to pay his personal doctor?
Ortega: I don't think so, assumption on my part.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 8m
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where the promoter/producer was advancing all daily expenses?
Ortega: It's possible, I don't know.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 9m
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where the artist could not afford his daily expenses?
Ortega: I don't believe so.

AEG was making the point that they were advancing all monies for all MJ living expenses including his medical expenses since MJ was in financial difficulty. The services of CM was paid for by AEG as part of that arrangement. i,e in the form of advances that MJ would later repay with his share the of the TII proceed. Again, this really helps a lot in understanding the context of the arrangement between AEG, MJ and CM and who was actually calling the shots.

Putnam: Do you think it's responsible for a studio to hire Kenny Ortega if he were in debt?
Ortega: I've been there and they hired me.

Putnam asked if being in debt diminishes your capability. "I don't think so," Ortega responded.
Ortega: Being in debt doesn't change your talent, your gift, your ability.

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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 9m
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where an artist was $400 million in debt?
Ortega: Not to my knowledge.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 10m
Out of twitter jail, finally...
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 48m
Putnam: You just don't know some of those things, right?
Ortega: Yes.

Now if MJ could find work with a $400m of debt tagged to his name, why shouldn't CM be able to do the same?
KO could find work even though he's previously been in debt. So how can CM being in debt constitute a red flag? how does that help predict that this man would kill MJ someday?

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 7m
Putnam: Who introduced you to Dr. Murray?
Ortega: Michael
P: Did AEG introduce you to him?
O: No
P: What did MJ say?
O: This is my doctor.

Again, very powerful. It shows the nature of the relationship between the three parties. if CM was hired and sought by AEG and forced upon MJ, surely you would expect AEG to at least acknowledge it around instead of MJ. this is even more significant because MJ and KO were friends.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 6m
Putnam asked if AEG checked if the doctor was licensed and if he had been disciplined, if it was responsible thing to do. Ortega said yes.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 50m
Ortega: I didn't think he was being very responsible, but it was his responsibility, in my opinion.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 50m
Putnam: Do you think MJ was being responsible with his own health?
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 50m
"Adults are responsible for their own health," Ortega opined.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 50m
Ortega: I worked with 10,000 people in the Olympics, how can I be responsible for everybody's health?

Very powerful. this clearly shows the line of responsibility. In the end MJ was the master of his own health. nothing stopped him from going to the hospital and seeking adequate help. the jacksons claim AEG should have done something. but was that really their responsibility? was MJ under their care? is my employer responsible for my health? by the was MJ and AEG were business partners. still, was AEG responsible?

Putnam: Were you concerned MJ was doing drugs before "TII" in 2008?
Ortega: No, I saw him.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 49m
Putnam: Did you have any reservation to work with him after rehab?
Ortega: No
P: Why not?
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 49m
Ortega never asked MJ about his rehab stint or any drug use.

this rebuffs the so-called red flags the jacksons claim by saying because MJ had flirted with drugs before in the early 1990s, AEG should have been concerned.

Ortega: He seemed healthy, ready and happy, there didn't seem to be any left over issues from the 19th.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 40m
Putnam: Completely different?
Ortega: Completely
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 41m
Ortega said the meeting on June 20th was at MJ's Carolwood home. On June 23rd, Ortega testified MJ was in great spirits, ready to work.


ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 37m
MJ also rehearsed and performed. Ortega said he was feeling they were back on track, believing they were in a new chapter.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 37m
Ortega said MJ was almost as good on the 24th as the 23rd. He seemed a little tired from the day before but talked about things for the show
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 37m
Ortega: Everybody felt there was a different Michael in the room.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 38m
Ortega said he just embraced it and went with it. "We were all delighted" Ortega recalled. "The energy in the room changed, hope returned"
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 38m
Ortega: He was in charge. Not only capable to rehearsing but to talk about other aspects of production, like films, the effects, costumes.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 36m
Ortega said said excitement was pretty unanimous among all the people working on "This Is It."
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Putnam: Did you have concern on the 23rd or 24th he was taking drugs?
Ortega: No.

How can anyone expect AEG to show concerns here, especially after hearing something like this?

Panish: The producer could fire you if they wanted, right?
Ortega: I think Michael would not be happy with that.

The same way MJ would not be happy had AEG on its own dismissed Murray without consulting with MJ since AEG and MJ were business partners. MJ was the reason Murray was included in the team. it was at his own request.

Putnam: You were paid after the contract was executed, right? Ortega: That's what appears in this document.
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Ortega looked at the document and said he was paid on May 11, 2009, which is after he signed his contract.
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In his deposition, Ortega was shown documents to refresh his recollection. Putnam showed him the same documents.
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Ortega's contract was executed on April 26, 2009. "I believe I was paid in advance of signing," Ortega said.
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"I was only contracted, and we were only focused, on the London tour at this time," Ortega explained.
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Putnam: Did you understand you were an employee of AEG Live? Ortega: No P: What were you employee of? O: K.O. Company
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AEG Live had an agreement with K.O. Company for the services of Ortega.
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Putnam showed Ortega a "Certificate of Employment -- Loan-Out," which Ortega said it's certificate that he works for The K.O. Company, Inc.
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How is this any different from Murray? Murray contract was never executed until MJ had to sign, which he never did.

"It's sort of common in the industry," Ortega said. Putnam: If you don't reach an agreement, you could work and not get paid? Ortega: Yes

This explains why Murray was secretly taping MJ. This was his insurance in case at the last minute MJ decided to dump him by not signing that contract.

Putnam: Is it fair to say you were the "TII" director because of MJ? Ortega: Yes.
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"He told me he only wanted me," Ortega said about Michael Jackson's wished that he be the director.
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Very similar to the Murray situation.

Ortega: I thought of MJ as my partner, I didn't think of him as my boss. But MJ always had the final creative say in all the years we worked
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Putnam: Who did you consider your boss? Ortega: Michael.
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Isn't that similar to Murray's situation? Plus, both had contracts with AEG. KO contract was executed while Murray's was not pending MJ final signature.

Putnam: Did you ever see AEG pressure Michael in any way? Ortega: No Putnam: Did you feel AEG Live supported MJ? Ortega: Yes
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This undercuts the plaintiffs accusation that AEG was pressurizing MJ. and this is coming from the man who was close to MJ.

He said there were professional discussions like 'is this something you really feel it's going to benefit,' 'do you really need this.'
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Ortega said he would ask Gongaware for more and more things to create the show. Gongaware never denied anything.
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Ortega: Everything we brought to AEG, in terms of enormous creative needs, that AEG was very supportive in doing all they could.

Again this undercuts the plaintiffs accusations that AEG was trapping MJ financially. AEG went over the budget because they truly believe that it will pay off in the long run for everyone involved. They supported additional ideas from MJ because they truly believed in him. they trusted him. so why not support his creative ideas?

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"I wouldn't think it would be something that would be the norm," Ortega responded.
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Putnam in re-re-cross asked if it's common practice to check a doctor's credit report prior to hiring him.

Again this lend support to AEG contention that doing credit check as part of the background check was not customary, especially on a doctor. if this was an accountant that would be a different story.


In conclusion, reading KO testimony felt so much like fresh air without all the bizarre noises about drugs and so on. Even though I can't read the jury's mind, it's hard not to see them not being influenced by his testimony in their final deliberation.

Correction: Removed the testimony about MJ collapsing during the HBO rehearsals as it does NOT prove anything in terms MJ dependency on drugs. The collapse was due to dehydration (see link, courtesy of gerryevans, http://www.heraldonline.com/front/story/1458834.html). Thanks to Vici for raising that point.

 

[Vici]

This shows that MJ has a history of medical problems related to the abuse of drugs and nobody knew about it. if so, what were the chances of AEG knowing about this? and this come from the man who knew MJ better than AEG did.

That doesnt prove anything because it has not been confirmed by anyone that the fainting for HBO was drugrelated. As a matter of fact, MJs doctor released a statment saying it was not drugrelated. Up to you if you wanna believe it or not but NO proof have offered that it had to do with drugs.

How is this any different from Murray? Murray contract was never executed until MJ had to sign, which he never did.

Murray's contract was the only one that required Michael's signatur. No other contract needed MJs signature to be fully executed, so who knows if MJ would have had time to sign Kennys as well at the time he passed. Plus, Kenny was hired by his own company to offer services to AEG, same case with Karen.

 

[passy001]

No doctor would have done the 17 deviations from standard of care combined which caused MJ's death. Like Schaffer said eventhough propofol is not a sleep aid it's a great drug and safe if administered by a specialist .

But AEG is not responsible for Murray's actions.

 

[Soundmind]

This shows that MJ has a history of medical problems related to the abuse of drugs and nobody knew about it. if so, what were the chances of AEG knowing about this? and this come from the man who knew MJ better than AEG did.

Well, there is ZERO room to speculate that the collapse in 1995 was due to drugs use , the doctor who treated MJ said they did suspect drugs initially when he was admitted.However, there was none at all found in his system , he did say MJ was clean . what's wrong with you people ?