Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[jaydom7]

Michael needed some good friends and some good doctors. He should've reached out to his fans I am sure we would've taken good care of him..

 

[Justthefacts]

I do have a issue with it
Did you see the photos of MJ's bedroom and pill bottles of his bedside table?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ption-pill-medical-supplies-article-1.1370099
Scroll down and check the photo of MJ's bedside table. I was wondering that as KJ testified she never saw MJ on drugs or anything, and she went to see MJ at his home without calling beforehand, went his bedroom watch telly. If she didn't call before hand to warn MJ she is coming, as she testified, he wouldn't have had time to clean away his medicines from bedside table, so those pill bottles should have been there (not necessary the same bottles as in photo but at least some).
She knew of MJ's past addiction, I find it unbelievable that she did not set her eyes on the table, nor did she go to bathroom to have a look at medicine cabinet. (I know, I do that





Sorry, I have mental block or something. Care to elaporate what do you mean?

You said why couldn't Karen use the cream. And I was wondering why would she?

 

[mjchris]

AEG is a joke. how they try to downplay everything that michael jackson achieved. all the records, the iconic.
if the jury believe all that bullshit that they are saying? or will they use their common sense?
michael jackson had the biggest tours in history. they can not compare a tour from the 80's and 90's with a tour from today.
when i was on the history tour, a ticket costs 25 euro!! now it costs minimum 100-120 euros!
and when they ignore that fact, they also ignore that fact that michael have the biggest attendance. off course besides rolling stones, u2, pink floid,...
michael jackson have 4 or 5 million people on his concert tours. all these b-stars from today 1 million. and then these weird *****s from aeg claims celine dion with her few people is a bigger star. even the media shaking their head when they heard that.

and that is only the beginning of what they will do. they want to destroy everything. exactly what t-mez said.

michael jackson the childmolester.
michael jackson the drug attict.
michael jackson the liar.
michael jackson the lazy one.
michael jackson not a big star.
michael jackson hated by everone. (1 of 7 dont like him, '93 (off course it was the painkillers ^^) & '03, off course)
michael jackson the one that dont have big concert tours.

all lies!
and there will come more, for sure.
thanks to the jackson family!

 

[Soundmind]

I cant believe what im reading , AEG's expert did not know about any assest that mj owned that exceeded 200 300 or 400 millions , when he asked about the ATV catalouge he said he did not belive its gross value was that much . Unbelievable , he said that with straight face ? it's worth billions not millions , he hid behind confidentiality agreement when grilled about his involvement in assessing its value


Another thing he said according to one of the doctors mj had a one week life expectancy because of Murray's presence . He refused to list murray as a risk eventhough the expert he quoted said it was due to murray's involvment . I cant believe how ridiculous and uncredible he is . I know ivy will come to say that's why he is hired to do , it is still gruesome to think people are willing to lie like that for the mighty dollar . Disgusting to say the least

 

[ivy]

^^

actually that doctor was a jacksons expert I believe. so it's odd for him to say Michael would have died within days / weeks

 

[Mneme]

From Partial Lloyds deposition

- Debbie worked at Klein's office between 1978 - 1997
......

- She says Metzger told her what to do to get Michael off Demerol, patches they used and other medications. she stayed with Michael every night for 3 weeks doing what Metzger told her. One day she comes and Michael has left for Bangkok. Their treatment wasn't finished. Debbie was told to meet with a doctor and give the doctor the schedule to be followed with the detox. Debbie was worried they would not follow the detox program and Metzger told her there's nothing they could do. She later says Michael had a relapse in Bangkok.

What do you mean:
Could this "patches" be identical with the patches who Debbie wanted give to Karen Faye before her fly to Bangkok and Karen said "No"?

Debbie said Michael had a relapse in Bangkok.

 

[Mneme]

I am skeptical about Michael Amir and Faheem Muhammed. They both knew something was wrong too because they were around MJ and they did nothing either. When Mike was hot and cold they called Cherilyn Lee and she said take him to emergency now allegedly that is what the bodyguard should've done.

Do you mean that Michael Amir who Murray called "Brother Michael" in his LAPD-Interview?
For me it looks like Murray was/is member in the same brotherhood as M. Amir / F. Muhammad / Jermaine Jackson.


In this context Iwas wondered about Katherine Jackson: In her witness she was asked about Dr. Farschian but she answered: "I have seen Louis Farakhan one times I believe."


quite strange....

 

[Petrarose]

I don't know much about medical stuff, but couldn't Klein use that Emla crem to numb the skin so he didn't need to use any drugs? I know from Dr Treacy that MJ had very sensitive area around the nose, thus perhaps there was a need for something stonger for that area, but if he was getting something other place than around the nose, could he not use that cream for it?
That time when Emla cream was used,was it Klein's partner who was taking care of MJ that time, and used Emla for numbing?

I know for me those numbing creams do not work. I had numbing cream a number of times and I always scream. The last time I used it was for laser to remove some moles on my back & neck and that cream did not work. I was screaming and twitching.

About Klien: I know he has his problems, but this was a guy who would spend an hour on an area that most doctors will work on for 20 mins. He was very good and detailed. I am sure when you left his office your face was nice and smooth, so he took his time and did a good job. No doubt it is nerve racking to have someone pricking an area of your face for a long time.

Also, there are many people who have botox in their late 20s and over. I have met several of them. Maybe some of us do not spend our time on things like this so it seems farfetched to be getting botox in one's 30's. Also, thousands of teens get a nose job or some plastic surgery for an 18th birthday. There is a lot going on in the big cities that people are not aware of.

About Katherine in the room and not seeing the pill bottles: I thought the meds were in the other little room where Muarry treated Michael. Maybe Katherine was in the master bedroom and the meds were not there at the time.

This testimony:


Panish: Are you aware that IRS is investigating the people who hired you and undervalued Sony ATV catalogue?
Objection: Sustained

What I am getting is that Briggs did some work for a firm or person and they undervalued the Sony ATV catalogue. This firm or people are being investigated by the IRS. So maybe in the same way Briggs has to undervalue Michael's worth in order to help AEG, the company undervalued the catalogue maybe for tax purposes, or to seek some advantage that less assets would allow. I think also if you have an asset that is losing money it helps you with your taxes. Based on the number of people who Briggs worked for, I don't think the people being investigated is the estate, but you never know. We would have heard if it was the estate.

 

[marebear]

I don't understand how any of this shows who hired Murray. Isn't what this trial is about? All I see is everything that Michael had, did, owned or even his god given talent being dissected, devalued or disrespected. This trial is going on 3 months now? This trial should be about who gave Michael the most grief and pressure and you know what? I think they are all guilty.

 

[Petrarose]

^^I think if AEG continues to make everything about michel or what he owned too, too low, then the jury might think if they could lie about something so obvious, then they could lie about something serious like the allegations in this trial? AEG needs to be careful and not be too disdainful and put on experts that make claims that any jury will know is not true. What I see is that the Jacksons hurt their own case by talking too much, and AEG is hurting its own case by being too "cute." I know this is only the beginning of their defense, but if all your top executives were disdainful and wrote mean things about the deceased person, and you now bring in more executives and experts who are also disdainful and show the deceased as something with little or no value, when it is time for damages, if AEG loses this case, the jury will take all that into consideration. I know that juries have their guidelines, but we are talking about humans with minds.

 

[marebear]

At least in the Murray trial it felt like Murray's actions were the focus and the judge didn't allow all these things about Michael. This trial should be more about how AEG operates their business and yes the character of the Jackson family and why they are doing this. Michael is being trashed too much. I don't feel that the jury is seeing the whole picture and I don't feel they really know how much Michael did for people. It's sad to me that in life and death Michael's value as a person is reflected in dollar signs. One person says he's worth billions and another person says he wasn't worth much. Celine Dion and Queen Elizabeth are bigger than Michael. It's really disgusting to me. People like Michael are priceless in this world. No amount of money could ever reflect how special he was to this world.

 

[Petrarose]

It seems to me that both sides do not have anything specific that states "hired." Due to this the Plaintiffs are showing the e-mail about "who is paying you," the fact AEG talked to Muarry about Michael's behavior & rehearsals, and some staffs' contracts were finalized after Michel died for their argument and letting the jury decide. AEG just began but already stated they don't hire doctors, were only advancing Michel the money to pay for his doc, Michael asked for him and would not wait for one in London, Michel had to sign first & Michael and AEG did not sign.

So, both sides spends most of their defense focusing on the other aspects of the case, especially damages and what would influence it.

 

[crillon]

AEG is a joke. how they try to downplay everything that michael jackson achieved. all the records, the iconic.
if the jury believe all that bullshit that they are saying? or will they use their common sense?
michael jackson had the biggest tours in history. they can not compare a tour from the 80's and 90's with a tour from today.
when i was on the history tour, a ticket costs 25 euro!! now it costs minimum 100-120 euros!
and when they ignore that fact, they also ignore that fact that michael have the biggest attendance. off course besides rolling stones, u2, pink floid,...
michael jackson have 4 or 5 million people on his concert tours. all these b-stars from today 1 million. and then these weird *****s from aeg claims celine dion with her few people is a bigger star. even the media shaking their head when they heard that.

and that is only the beginning of what they will do. they want to destroy everything. exactly what t-mez said.

michael jackson the childmolester.
michael jackson the drug attict.
michael jackson the liar.
michael jackson the lazy one.
michael jackson not a big star.
michael jackson hated by everone. (1 of 7 dont like him, '93 (off course it was the painkillers ^^) & '03, off course)
michael jackson the one that dont have big concert tours.

all lies!
and there will come more, for sure.
thanks to the jackson family!

Let's not forget that. None of this would be happening if the Jacksons hadn't queued up this lawsuit and they knew from the get-go that AEG would have to defend themselves and use Michael to do it. Even the plaintiffs threw Michael under the bus. So sad, but so true.

 

[8701girl]

Originally Posted by jamba
Then Panish is trying to get Briggs to say how much the SONY/ATV catalogue is worth--how is this relevant? Doesn't the value depend on many factors and is Briggs qualified to assess it and was he ever asked to do so?

What the hell does the ATV catalouge got to do with what happened to mj on june 25!!??? i swear its like mjs family just see mj as a money making machine for them and not as their brother/son etc...

 

[crillon]

^^I think if AEG continues to make everything about michel or what he owned too, too low, then the jury might think if they could lie about something so obvious, then they could lie about something serious like the allegations in this trial? AEG needs to be careful and not be too disdainful and put on experts that make claims that any jury will know is not true. What I see is that the Jacksons hurt their own case by talking too much, and AEG is hurting its own case by being too "cute." I know this is only the beginning of their defense, but if all your top executives were disdainful and wrote mean things about the deceased person, and you now bring in more executives and experts who are also disdainful and show the deceased as something with little or no value, when it is time for damages, if AEG loses this case, the jury will take all that into consideration. I know that juries have their guidelines, but we are talking about humans with minds.

And, with hearts...I agree this is a big risk--that whole "blame the victim" strategy is not popular with most juries, and in this case, the defense is characterizing a musical icon/genius as if he was a has-been (for obvious reasons). But, if any of those jurors saw TII (did they ask them that in voir dire?) they know Michael still had it going on at 50 years old & the jury will see AEG as being disingenuous. This may backfire big time.

 

[8701girl]

Debbie is not a doctor or a nurse. So really she is offering her opinion nothing more

But shes been known as a nurse... :huh:

 

[Soundmind]

^^

actually that doctor was a jacksons expert I believe. so it's odd for him to say Michael would have died within days / weeks

that was not my point, we did not need an expert to tell us he could have died any minute under murray's care . The point was AEG's expert depended on Jacksons' expert to say MJ had only a one week life expectancy completely ignoring the rest of that expert's opinion " due to Murray's presence" . He refused to blame Murray for anything . I know you will say that's his job . But how a jury would feel about blatant lies, twisting , misrepresentation of the testimonies ?

Murray is already in jail for killing MJ how come an expert get on the stand and adamantly in front of the jury refuses to blame him for anything ? Not only that he select what suits him from another expert testimony and with straight face misrepresent what the other expert said , the main point in that expert argument that Murray's deviations of standar care were unheard of .

 

[Tygger]

Is this a statement of fact?

Last Tear, I do not fabricate testimony. Tohme worked for Michael and AEG. Michael fired Tohme yet, Tohme, along with Dileo, signed documents at AEG's request after Michael’s passing.

Panish needs to be a little careful with Briggs, rather than show a conflict of interest he may make the jury believe that Briggs is highly qualified to comment on Michael.

??????

Last Tear, Panish gave an incredible, unmerciful cross against Briggs who may have very well perjured himself. Luckily it will continue. $600-700K+ AEG paid for Briggs and it is all for naught. I guess AEG did not vet Briggs properly either.

That's not an endorsement. Endorsement is when a celebrity takes part in the commercials and endorses the product. So they did not select Michael to appear in Sobe commercials or promote sobe, they just licensed the Thriller song.

Ivy, where did I say it was an endorsement? Check the date. Jamba stated Michael was not attractive at all as a sponsor. PepsiCo sponsored Michael’s Thriller 25 with that Super Bowl Thrillerlicious commercial. According to Phillips, Thriller 25 was Sony’s biggest selling album at that time.

actually that doctor was a jacksons expert I believe. so it's odd for him to say Michael would have died within days / weeks

Yes it was the plaintiffs’ expert. The expert said Michael would pass in a week continuing with the doctor’s treatment. The expert CONTINUED that without the doctor’s treatment, Michael would live a longer life. Briggs would only repeat the first part of the expert's assessment and REFUSE to admit the doctor was a risk to Michael’s life as Soundmind said. AEG has not stipulated that Michael’s death resulted from the doctor.

In this context Iwas wondered about Katherine Jackson: In her witness she was asked about Dr. Farschian but she answered: "I have seen Louis Farakhan one times I believe."
quite strange....

Mneme, Katherine was asked about meeting Louis Farakhan as per the transcripts on other sites. Sometimes the tweets are a bit confusing.

MJChris, Crillon, I do thank Katherine for bringing this suit. Without it, the truth about TII would not be told. It is true that the truth is not always accepted but, it does not change the fact that it is indeed the truth. Anyone is free to blame the Jacksons; however, it does not change the truth of AEG’s actions.

 

[Bubs]

There are 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, so if she checked the one that CM was administering meds, there would be none there. In the other bathroom there was some but did not seem unreasonable but maybe you disagree? We also have Fleak's odd testimony.

You are right, I forgot MJ had 2 bedrooms and KJ could have been only the other one, non medical bedroom.
But if my kid had past addiction, I definately would be nosing around. Not to satify my curiosity, but check what is going on.

You said why couldn't Karen use the cream. And I was wondering why would she?

Klein.

I don't know much about medical stuff, but couldn't Klein use that Emla crem to numb the skin so he didn't need to use any drugs?

If that cream worked for MJ, Klein could have used that cream when he gave botox and other cosmetic stuff.
I think he purposely used demerol, because he wanted MJ to be dependant on him and come back, secondly there is a big price difference between that cream and shots.

 

[Bubs]

Jeez, we are still at Rose bowl and U2. Yesterday after I left this thread, I thought at least tomorrow I see something like Randy's testimony, and all I got was more nonsense:doh:
Can they not just spilt it in half, plaintiffs says MJ would have earned billion, and defense says MJ wouldn't have earned a dime. They could agree 500 million and move on.
-----------
Bina said MJ' business manager said MJ had no ability to borrow money and had no money at time of death.
Panish: That's not true! He didn't know how much catalogue was worth, had $6 million in an account that Tohme was holding, so he had money.

I don't think MJ and his business manager knew about that 5 million(Panish added 1 million) Tohme was holding.
MJ said in 1 tape that Tohme scares him and he doesn't know what is in his accounts.
From old article what Tohme said:
"I had the money and I gave it to them. It was a secret between Michael and me," he said.
Tohme said the money came from recording residuals and was earmarked by Jackson for the purchase of what was to be his "dream home" in Las Vegas. He told the AP that he was in negotiations for the home when Jackson died.
"He said, 'Don't tell anyone about this money,'" Tohme said. "But when he passed away I told them I had this money, and I gave it to them."

At least MJ's business manager could not have known about that money as Tohme came forward with it after MJ passed, and I have serious doubt MJ didn't know it either.
I think it was more like secret between Tohme and Tohme.

Trell testified the following:
MJ was given $5 million in advance: $3 million was to pay settlement of a lawsuit, $100,000/month for Carolwood house lease. Trell said MJ was already in the house at Carolwood when they entered into the agreement. AEG was to assist MJ to get $15 million in credit line, or would advance the money, so MJ could buy a house in Las Vegas, Trell testified. (ABC7)

Why would MJ ask AEG to help him get a house when he had Tohme and his money?

 

[Bubs]

Snippet from news section
Meantime, attorneys are still clashing. Transcripts obtained by Eyewitness News record complaints made to the judge outside the presence of the jury.

Panish took aim at a defense attorney: "Your honor, Ms. Strong keeps looking over at me making faces, making noises, trying to disrupt me."

Panish threatened to take matters in his own hands.

The judge: "I didn't hear anything."

It goes on with plaintiffs' attorney Kevin Boyle saying: "It's like a little squeakfest of grunt and laughing, and the jury will see them."

The judge instructs Strong: "Don't look in his direction. No grunt or groaning or anything."
------------------------------

Last week Panish was making faces at Putnam, and when being told to stop it he asked if he could make faces at Bina.
Now he accuses Strong making faces at him.
I seriously wonder the mental age of these lawyers?

 

[Bubs]

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 5h
Next witnesses
Eric Briggs
Michael La Perruque (former head of MJ's security)
Barry Seagal (MJ financial advisor to talk about his spending)

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 9h
It’s possible that Briggs’ testimony however will be interrupted if AEG calls Barry Siegel to the stand tomorrow.
AEG also wants to call Jackson’s former head of security, Micahel La Perreque, to the stand tomorrow afternoon.

It seems that there is a change who is going to be testifying.

Barry S testimony should be interesting and hopefully KJ pays attention of what he says about MJ's money problems as she denied MJ's money problems in her testimony:
Regarding Michael having money problems, Mrs. Jackson said : "My son made a lot of money, he had people working for him."
Putnam: Where you aware MJ was having financial difficulties when he passed away? Mrs. Jackson: Yes, I've heard from some people
Putnam: You heard about MJ having money problems? Mrs. Jackson: I heard for years Michael Jackson was broken and he wasn't
Putnam: Did you ever ask MJ about having money problems? Mrs. Jackson: No, because I didn't believe it. Because he wasn't. (ABC7)

Maybe in her mind, if MJ was in debt 400 million and ATV catalogue was worth of billion, that means MJ had 600 million to spend to his family.

 

[Bubs]

This testimony:

Panish: Are you aware that IRS is investigating the people who hired you and undervalued Sony ATV catalogue?
Objection: Sustained

What I am getting is that Briggs did some work for a firm or person and they undervalued the Sony ATV catalogue. This firm or people are being investigated by the IRS. So maybe in the same way Briggs has to undervalue Michael's worth in order to help AEG, the company undervalued the catalogue maybe for tax purposes, or to seek some advantage that less assets would allow. I think also if you have an asset that is losing money it helps you with your taxes. Based on the number of people who Briggs worked for, I don't think the people being investigated is the estate, but you never know. We would have heard if it was the estate.

He testified this:
Briggs has done work for Goldman Sachs, the Fortress Investment Group and Jackson’s estate regarding the catalog.
One of them was Sony-ATV, the massive music catalog MJ has an interest in.

I would think it is either the estate or Sony that has been investigated by IRS, as only those 2 have ownership to it, and only they have the reason to put value of it to their tax form of whatever you use your side of the pond.

"Briggs: The work was performed after MJ's death, but the valuation is of date of death."

I would understand that executors had to know the value of it as they had to report it to judge and tax people, am I right?

We have to remember that catalogue value has increased since 2009, as at least 2 major music catalogues were added to it, but how much seems to be impossible to know?

 

[LastTear]

@Tygger

Last Tear, I do not fabricate testimony. Tohme worked for Michael and AEG. Michael fired Tohme yet, Tohme, along with Dileo, signed documents at AEG's request after Michael’s passing.





??????

Last Tear, Panish gave an incredible, unmerciful cross against Briggs who may have very well perjured himself. Luckily it will continue. $600-700K+ AEG paid for Briggs and it is all for naught. I guess AEG did not vet Briggs properly either.

It wasn't my intention to make it sound like I was accusing you of anything. Bubs had already answered my question, but thanks anyway. Thome is like a bad penny he just keeps coming back.

Re Panish, my comment was before yesterdays testimony took place, at that point I wasn't sure exactly where he was going with it.

**************
I need to re-read yesterdays again as I haven't quite grasped it yet, I understand what Panish wants to do - he wants to show some perjury, I really cannot see where the catalogue should come into all this, I'm sure its value has increased since Michael's death, but KJ is still recieving income from it so therefore it is not an income she has lost, so why does it matter?

I keep seeing fans tweeting that Briggs has said Michael would have earned nothing, as far as I can see he said that he couldn't or wouldn't like to speculate.

This judge needs to bang these lawyers heads together, she needs to run a much tighter ship and take more control.

ETA How would Panish have information about who the IRS is investigating, when they investigate people is it made common knowledge in the USA?

 

[Soundmind]

He said MJ being in huge amount of debt more than 400 millions dollar was a risk . Panish told him but his assets far exceeded his debt to which Biggs said I have no idea he owned any asset that was valued 200 , 300 or 400 millions . He blatantly lied . TMZ posted documents in 2007 and again after MJ's death detailing his assets . He had assets worth $ 1 billion 700 millions but very cash poor , only $ 600,000 was in his account .


Biggs also said he reviewed the medical experts testimonies expect the coroner's report . He did not want to admit that MJ was healthy . Don't even have the words to describe him .

 

[Bubs]

Radar is reporting this:
Lawyers for AEG are considering calling one of the district attorneys that successfully prosecuted Conrad Murray as possible witnesses in the wrongful death trial of Michael Jackson, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.

Katherine Jackson is suing the concert promoter alleging that AEG failed to properly investigate and supervise Michael’s one-time doctor, Murray. Murray was convicted two years ago for the involuntary manslaughter death of the King of Pop.

The concert promoter “doesn’t want to put Conrad Murray on the stand for several reasons. First, Murray is a sanctimonious and arrogant, he will make the testimony all about him. He would likely be unwilling to answer the most important questions, and invoke the fifth amendment because he is appealing the conviction,” a source told Radar.

“Secondly, Murray would use the appearance to possibly promote a book/overseas tabloid interview he is planning upon his release from jail.”

The source added, “For those reasons, and more, AEG lawyer, Marvin Putnam, has been in contact with former Los Angeles County District Attorney, David Walgren, who is now a judge, and current prosecutor, Deborah Brazil, whom both handled Murray’s case.

“Both are agreeable to appearing and testifying. AEG needs to present a witness to the jury that can explain Murray’s role in Michael’s death. It’s AEG’s position that no one could have known that Murray was giving Michael a Propofol at night to sleep.”

The decision will be made “in the next several days about if one or both of them (Walgren/Brazil), will be called to testify,” the insider revealed.

“They would both be very compelling witnesses for AEG and the jury would be very impressed with their knowledge and professionalism of the criminal case.”
-------------------------

Ivy or anyone else with legal expertise, is this possible that they call witnesses so late, especially DA who handled the CM case?

 

[Bubs]

This judge needs to bang these lawyers heads together, she needs to run a much tighter ship and take more control.

ETA How would Panish have information about who the IRS is investigating, when they investigate people is it made common knowledge in the USA?

I agree with you about banging their heads together

I would be interested to know how he found out about that IRS thingy, although if the estate is being investigated, I know where my finger is going to point.

 

[crillon]

MJChris, Crillon, I do thank Katherine for bringing this suit. Without it, the truth about TII would not be told. It is true that the truth is not always accepted but, it does not change the fact that it is indeed the truth. Anyone is free to blame the Jacksons; however, it does not change the truth of AEG’s actions.

Tygger, honestly, are you finding anything that resembles the "truth" in this trial, especially about TII? To me, it's all "smoke and mirrors" from each side while they throw Michael Jackson under the bus. When this is all over and the smoke finally clears and the stench from the court room disappears, we will see the full extent of all the damage to Michael's legacy and to his children, compliments of Katherine Jackson. I doubt that any of us will think it was worth the price.

 

[Soundmind]

Tygger, honestly, are you finding anything that resembles the "truth" in this trial, especially about TII? To me, it's all "smoke and mirrors" from each side while they throw Michael Jackson under the bus. When this is all over and the smoke finally clears and the stench from the court room disappears, we will see the full extent of all the damage to Michael's legacy and to his children, compliments of Katherine Jackson. I doubt that any of us will think it was worth the price.

MJ did not deserve to be slandered for the sole purpose of making Randy Jackson a billionaire

 

[ivy]

Ivy, where did I say it was an endorsement? Check the date. Jamba stated Michael was not attractive at all as a sponsor. PepsiCo sponsored Michael’s Thriller 25 with that Super Bowl Thrillerlicious commercial. According to Phillips, Thriller 25 was Sony’s biggest selling album at that time.

that's not sponsorship either. If they were sponsoring thriller 25, they would have added info about it. for example Coca Cola sponsors American Idol and you see Coca Cola cups on the table in front of judges. As I said they licensed thriller song for their own commercial however that commercial brought Thriller back to the minds of the people and it might have helped to the Thriller sales.

If it's not an endorsement or a sponsorship by definition, I won't say it is. Sobe used Thriller in their own advertising with no tie back to Thriller 25 and with no appearance by Michael. They paid Michael money for licensing his song.

Maybe in her mind, if MJ was in debt 400 million and ATV catalogue was worth of billion, that means MJ had 600 million to spend to his family.

Michael was asset rich and cash poor. I do believe his catalog was worth more than his debts. But the thing is , the value of the asset doesn't mean much if he's not willing to sell it and he wasn't.

For example if we go with what Panish says and the value of the catalog is double the debt $800 Million versus $400 Million - which is good, which again shows Michael was asset rich. However imagine paying back the $400 Million debt, he would have needed to sell half of his share (25%) to cover it. And as Panish said to be able to spend for 30 years he would have been required to see the other half of his share.

Yes he had more assets than this debt but those weren't liquid assets as Panish makes them sound like. In a asset rich, cash poor situation, it's possible for him to have billion dollar asset but only limited cash at hand. And the only way to increase his cash - with no working - would be by selling parts of his assets. It's apparent that he did not want to do it and therefore he went back to touring. The only way to pay his debt and spend for years without selling his assets would be through working.

I would think it is either the estate or Sony that has been investigated by IRS, as only those 2 have ownership to it, and only they have the reason to put value of it to their tax form of whatever you use your side of the pond.

Bubs, there's an estate tax here. A tax has to be paid on the value of the assets before the probate ends. When a person dies the ownership transfers from the person to their beneficiaries, so the government taxes that. The tweets aren't clear but it might mean that Estate showed a certain value on the Estate tax forms for the catalog and IRS disagreed with that valuation.

two important things, valuation of an asset on a tax form versus the actual market value are two different things - meaning the tax value of an asset could be lower than it's real value. For example for tax purposes houses are shown at 70% of their value. Meaning for example a house that is worth and would sell for $200,000 would be shown valued as $140,000 for tax purposes.

secondly a higher valuation on a tax form would mean Estate has to pay higher taxes which would mean lower money for the beneficiaries.