Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Adams already said in an interview he agreed to join the team , he called Murray but Murray either told him he was no longer needed or he did not get back to him with a reply from Michael , I forgot what he said , basically his impression Murray did not want him on board .
 
Clearly he was not going to tell anyone about this. IMO it seemed at times Michael was not sure. ESP if he was asking others about it still after this meeting
 
Adams already said in an interview he agreed to join the team , he called Murray but Murray either told him he was no longer needed or he did not get back to him with a reply from Michael , I forgot what he said , basically his impression Murray did not want him on board .

Murray told him his price was too high and they could get someone cheaper
 
regarding this Michael mentions anesthesia and being put out for a certain amount of time so he didn't have to go through withdrawals.

Don´t they sedate addicts sometimes when detoxing them? Because of the withdrawal being so hard on them? Or have I seen to much movies?
 
Justthefacts;3878924 said:
Murray told him his price was too high and they could get someone cheaper

I don't believe at all Murray informed MJ Adams agreed to join the tour.



Don´t they sedate addicts sometimes when detoxing them? Because of the withdrawal being so hard on them? Or have I seen to much movies?

Yes , I read about it too .
 
Debbie is not a doctor or a nurse. So really she is offering her opinion nothing more

yes but she claims she was there to see it and to look after Michael. so that might give her the first hand knowledge of what drugs being used.

Just seems weird to ask Tohme, a non-AEG employee, to take care of something so critical for AEG.

cancellation insurance was not just critical for AEG, it was equally critical for Michael as well. Because without such insurance if Michael cancelled some or all shows, he would be required to pay from his pocket to AEG. An insurance policy would protect him from that. When 2 parties have the same interest, they can work together and there's not conflict of interest. The insurance policy was in the names of both AEG & MJ Co and both were beneficiaries.


Include PepsiCo with Erk. From 2008

That's not an endorsement. Endorsement is when a celebrity takes part in the commercials and endorses the product. So they did not select Michael to appear in Sobe commercials or promote sobe, they just licensed the Thriller song.

Are people without at least nurse's qualifications allowed inject anything to anyone? What if something happens like she could have punctured something vital?

muscle injections are relatively easy and many people with some illnesses - such as diabetes / insulin injections - learn to self inject.

Speechless! Who even told him that while getting rid of his dangerous addiction, it is ok to take something else as dangerous?

I think it was mentioned with Q&A with Shafer and I think it is called Rapid detox, see the idea is when people stop medicine there's an initial few days when they have the worst withdrawal symptoms. They put people under anesthesia so I don't feel when they go through withdrawal symptoms.

What's the reason of Panish asking Briggs about the hours, pymt & the work he did, related to Michael, in the past? Where does he wants to go?

demonstrate his bias

So if it wasn't separately requested to test drugs in the blood, it wouldn't have been done?

yes it needs to be requested separately. There's a standard blood panel that looks to very basics. everything else - even stuff like vitamin D, iron, hormones etc- need to be specifically requested. Also for the drug test I think there might be a patient consent required

Who was giving those shots on May if Klein was out of the country?

apparently according to Debbie Klein never gave Demerol shots himself, he made his assistants / nurses gave them. A nurse named Ellen at a deposition says she gave them in 2009 but it is with orders from doctors. Klein might be managing his care from abroad.

also we might need to check back to dates. Dr. Rish - Klein's former partner- says he did inject Michael with Botox and he did not need pain medicine and that's what makes him believe and tell Debbie that Klein was giving Michael too much Demerol. There is 2 dates on that list with no Demerol, I wonder if we go back to the invoice, will those dates be the dates Dr. Rish gave Botox with no Demerol.


About what Adams says CM's demeanor changing after MJ asked Adams to come to UK scares the hell out of my.
I think, considering he is narcissistic sociopath, he wanted to be only doctor for Mj and take all control over him, thus he didn't get back to Adams.

More and more this looks like all Murray to me. Ratner was an anesthesiologist, Debbie says there were 2 doctors at both France and Germany and with monitors and such. I believe Michael knew he needed at least 2 people and one anesthesiologist. He offered the job to Adams and he was asking Lee to find him someone. Murray might have axed Adams's job to get the money himself. Or might be waiting for the contract to be signed - which said Murray could bring in a doctor to help him - to bring Adams to the tour.
 
@Ivy were these people Klein and Hoefflin ever investigated? For Debbie to say Klein got Michael addicted to demerol and Hoefflin put Michael under but never touched him that is serious
 
Murray didn't want Adams because he didn't want to share the money. Murray had no clue what he was doing obviously and it's sad that Michael trusted him
 
Adams already said in an interview he agreed to join the team , he called Murray but Murray either told him he was no longer needed or he did not get back to him with a reply from Michael , I forgot what he said , basically his impression Murray did not want him on board .

I cannot remember where I saw it but there was list of things that CM requested to UK, like cpr machine and nurse. I think because he didn't get his original 5 million that he asked, he thought somehow he was going to take salary that was meant for the nurse (Adams) to himself. Creeps.
 
@Ivy were these people Klein and Hoefflin ever investigated? For Debbie to say Klein got Michael addicted to demoral and Hoefflin put Michael under but never touched him that is serious

I would say so.. Definitely unethical and in California there is a law where doctors can be prosecuted for prescribing and administering to a known addict. MJ said in 1993 he had addiction issues and for Klein to still be giving him the meds he was addicted to is insane to me. I do believe Klein got MJ addicted intentionally to keep the connection and the money flowing in. Did you notice when MJ died, his medical empire crumbled and he had to file bankruptcy. That speaks volumes. Charging $48,000 for some botox injections? seriously??
 
I cannot remember where I saw it but there was list of things that CM requested to UK, like cpr machine and nurse. I think because he didn't get his original 5 million that he asked, he thought somehow he was going to take salary that was meant for the nurse (Adams) to himself. Creeps.


Murray would've been the second doctor and Adams would've been administering since he was an anesthesiologist. Mike wanted an anesthesiologist but Murray convinced him he could do it. He lied. He probably had never administered propofol in his life.
 
I am sorry if I sound naive or stupid here but if Michael had issues with certain things why would these doctors keep giving him them? It seems to me that Michael wanted to be healthy and took measures to do that and then he would go to these people and they would give him these things. Couldn't they give him something else? I don't believe that Michael was a crazy addict but if there were things he should have avoided then these doctors should have helped him in doing that. That's just my thinking sorry.
 
@Ivy were these people Klein and Hoefflin ever investigated? For Debbie to say Klein got Michael addicted to demerol and Hoefflin put Michael under but never touched him that is serious

I saw last night people asking why this wasn't reported or why they weren't investigated. I think it's because there was plausible reason.

Fact is Michael had suffered a burn and went through painful surgery. So he had a need for those medicines. The same can be said for other stuff. For example Demerol or Propofol might not be required or common for Botox injections but perhaps Michael had a low pain threshold or he got so nervous and so on.

so even if she claimed their treatments were questionable, it would be hard to prove and would / could put Michael in the middle of a media storm.
 
yes it needs to be requested separately. There's a standard blood panel that looks to very basics. everything else - even stuff like vitamin D, iron, hormones etc- need to be specifically requested. Also for the drug test I think there might be a patient consent required

So when RP was celebrating MJ passing medical with clean papers, he didn't know drug test wasn't taken?
When nurse Lee took blood test from MJ, she didn't check for drugs.
When DiLeo asked CM to do blood test to check what was going on (I assume he wanted drug test), they heard nothing back from CM.


More and more this looks like all Murray to me. Ratner was an anesthesiologist, Debbie says there were 2 doctors at both France and Germany and with monitors and such. I believe Michael knew he needed at least 2 people and one anesthesiologist. He offered the job to Adams and he was asking Lee to find him someone. Murray might have axed Adams's job to get the money himself. Or might be waiting for the contract to be signed - which said Murray could bring in a doctor to help him - to bring Adams to the tour.

I belive somehow he was going to funnel that money for himself.
 
So when RP was celebrating MJ passing medical with clean papers, he didn't know drug test wasn't taken?
When nurse Lee took blood test from MJ, she didn't check for drugs.

no they did not. Slavit's examination is very similar to an annual check in USA. Michael did not report any problems, an external examination looked fine and his blood work as well as his vitals were normal. So yeah he appeared to be healthy. None of the doctors were checking for drugs.

When DiLeo asked CM to do blood test to check what was going on (I assume he wanted drug test), they heard nothing back from CM.

yes Dileo is clearly referencing a drug test. you don't send the blood to check for cholesterol and get a result that says "oh btw this person is using drug x", drugs need to be separately and specifically run.

I checked drug tests

the standard drug test checks for

Cannabinoids (marijuana, hash)
Cocaine (cocaine, crack, benzoylecognine)
Amphetamines (amphetamines, methamphetamines, speed) - does not include MDMA/MDA/MDE
Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
Phencyclidine (PCP)

as an extended drug test these could be added

Barbiturates (Phenobarbital, Secobarbitol, Butalbital)
Hydrocodone (Lortab, Vicodin)
Methaqualone (Quaaludes)
Benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, Librium, Serax, Rohypnol)
Methadone
Propoxyphene (Darvon compounds)
Ethanol (Alcohol)
MDMA (Ecstasy)
 
Next potential witnesses: Randy Jackson (via video depo), Michael La Perruque (MJ's former head of security), Debbie Rowe, Rebbie Jackson
-----------------------------
Briggs said he was working with someone unrelated to this case regarding the value of the Sony catalogue.
Briggs: In one particular case, a law firm hired us. It was in late 2009, after Michael Jackson had died.
Panish asked if before MJ died if any law firm hired his company to assess MJ's assets. Briggs said he doesn't recall.
Regarding this asset, the Sony ATV catalogue, Briggs said he worked on evaluating it between 5-10 times.
Briggs said he provided his opinion in those engagements, 5 to 10 times, before MJ died, to 3 or 4 third parties.
Panish: Was one of them Sony?
Briggs: Yes
Sony ATV Music Publishing was one of the companies, not Sony music, Briggs said.
Fortress Capital -- Briggs said it was another company. He recalls law firm and there may have been financial companies.
Panish: Goldman Sacks?
Briggs: It's possible, I work on hundreds of projects a year.
Panish: Goldman Sacks hired you regarding MJ, right sir?
Briggs: I don't recall specifically.
Panish asked if Briggs worked with MJ before being retained in this case. He said yes and that he discussed it with AEG.
Briggs testified AEG didn't see the work done in previous engagements as conflict of interest.

I'm have no clue what is this about and this:
Panish: Are you aware that IRS is investigating the people who hired you and undervalued Sony ATV catalogue?
Objection: Sustained
 
well one would think including Phillips that MJ who had substance abuse in the past would be checked for drug use since the rumors of him using in the past were well known. Murray of course wouldn't do a drug test because he was the one giving MJ drugs benzos and propofol knowing they would show up.
 
well one would think including Phillips that MJ who had substance abuse in the past would be checked for drug use since the rumors of him using in the past were well known. Murray of course wouldn't do a drug test because he was the one giving MJ drugs benzos and propofol knowing they would show up.

The thing is that did RP knew drug test was not included in normal blood test?
He didn't get detailed breakdown what was done to MJ, only result. So he could have assumed that MJ was clean.
It is possibility.



Then Panish is trying to get Briggs to say how much the SONY/ATV catalogue is worth--how is this relevant? Doesn't the value depend on many factors and is Briggs qualified to assess it and was he ever asked to do so?

Randy wants to know.
 
well one would think including Phillips that MJ who had substance abuse in the past would be checked for drug use since the rumors of him using in the past were well known. Murray of course wouldn't do a drug test because he was the one giving MJ drugs benzos and propofol knowing they would show up.

drug tests require consent , you can't just check people for drugs without their knowledge and permission, it's borderline illegal and unethical. The known exceptions are ER rooms and when people are unconscious.

you are kidding yourself if you think anyone would go to Michael and say "let's test you for drugs" and he would say "sure no problem". If you don't say that then you are suggesting a drug test violating Michael's rights.
 
regarding what Debbie said about Hoefflin putting MJ out for hours , there was a lawsuit against him from one of his staff , she/he said the same thing with more shocking details of course .
 
Something to read while we wait Randy's homemade lies:

Btw, Meglin is never going to live his statement down:)
Steven Ivory: Celine Bigger than MJ? Really?

*The moon is made of green cheese. Big Foot truly is out there somewhere. And, oh yeah: Singer Celine Dion is “bigger” than Michael Jackson.
The latter line is what concert promoter AEG executive John Meglin said during recent testimony in the wrongful death suit brought by the Jackson family against concert promoter AEG Live.
As reported in the media for weeks, Michael Jackson’s mother and three children contend the company is liable for damages because it hired, retained or supervised the doctor convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson.
Meglin made his assessment while challenging an entertainment expert hired by Jackson lawyers who estimated Michael, 50 at the time of his death, would have earned $1.5 billion touring the world before his 66th birthday had he not died from an overdose of propofol. Meglin said if Jackson had lived, Dion would have been a bigger star in the future–that, in fact, she was already the “bigger” star before he died.
To win a lawsuit, people will do whatever. The gloves come off, so to speak—or, as in the case of the O.J. Simpson murder trial, he “couldn’t” get the gloves on, which helped lead to his acquittal. In the courtroom, people say and do all sorts of things.
But while Michael Jackson has been called a lot of things in life, being a smaller star than Celine Dion isn’t one of them.
Of course, there ARE people more famous than Michael Jackson. Jesus Christ comes to mind. JFK. Queen Elizabeth. Batman…Celine Dion. See? Her name doesn’t even fit here.
In bars, patrons under the influence of alcohol have been known to express strong differences of opinion regarding religion, politics and, on occasion, Michael Jackson. When was the last time somebody got clocked over Celine Dion?
Regardless of his assorted woes, the time of his death Michael Jackson was still one of the most famous men on the planet. I’m pretty sure Meglin, being in the business he’s in, knows this. Perhaps he simply wasn’t moved by the truth.
Figures. In recent years, the attempt to rewrite the most obvious of history or refute basic fact is a trend that has swarmed the fields of reality, common sense and logic like a storm of locusts. We’re not talking merely a case of misguided opinion or a lie that might be construed as fact; it’s the “my truth/your truth” concept on steroids with a crack chaser.
There are people running around vehemently insisting global warming is a scam; that medical vaccine is a hoax. That better gun background checks are the last step before the government takes everyone’s gun; that Robin Thick’s smash, “Blurred Lines,” ISN’T simply a straight up rip of Marvin Gaye’s “Got To Give It Up.” I say give me a break.
Among the most dynamic of these loony tunes is the idea that Barack Obama isn’t an American citizen; that he was actually born in Kenya–as if the powers that be would have allowed a black man who is not an American citizen to even ask for the PAPERWORK to run for president, let alone fill it out, run and win.
And that’s the most interesting—and actually, scary–component of this culture of super lies: it doesn’t seem to matter that there are scientific facts or physical evidence to counter the cockeyed fantasies. Folks shamelessly make bat-shit crazy claims about stuff that can be disproved by cracking a book or simply using one’s head. Yet people still believe otherwise.
The Hawaiian hospital where Obama was born has issued so many copies of his birth certificate to the skeptical that they refuse to send out anymore. Obama himself has addressed this foolishness. However, the mantra of the so-called Birthers continues to be “Show us the birth certificate.”
Meanwhile, vaccines have all but wiped out many dread diseases, and Big Foot has never been found. These people seem to believe that if they can get enough sheep to rally behind these Bizarro lies, the lies become the truth.
But this isn’t Bizarro World, and depending on how serious the lie, the people look either silly or downright ignorant.
I hope that when Mr. Meglin comes down from whatever he’s been smoking, he puts in a call to Celine Dion and apologizes. I’m sure she’s asking herself why couldn’t he have invoked somebody else’s name in such a ridiculous way. Somebody like, well, anyone but her.
Steven Ivory, journalist and author of the essay collection Fool In Love (Simon & Schuster), has covered popular culture for magazines, newspapers, radio and TV for more than 30 years. Respond to him via STEVRIVORY@AOL.COM.
 
The thing is that did RP knew drug test was not included in normal blood test?
He didn't get detailed breakdown what was done to MJ, only result. So he could have assumed that MJ was clean.
It is possibility.





Randy wants to know.

I think it's most likely that RP would have assumed that by passing the physical he would expect Michael to be drug free. Plus RP was in alot of meetings with him - he would have noticed something.
 
I think it's most likely that RP would have assumed that by passing the physical he would expect Michael to be drug free. Plus RP was in alot of meetings with him - he would have noticed something.

So we agree with that RP could have thought that MJ was drug free?
Kai Chase and Nanny saw MJ more often than RP but they didn't see anything.

So now we can assume RP didn't know drugs, he didn't know about MJ sleep problem, and he didn't know about propofol.
What else Jackson's got?
 
I see AD is putting his own spin to Briggs testimony. I removed some of the text as he is repeating his nonsense and I cannot stand it:)

A lawyer for Michael Jackson's estate gave an entertainment industry consultant permission to help AEG Live in its defense of the wrongful death lawsuit filed by the pop singer's mother, the expert testified.
The revelation was a surprise to Katherine Jackson, who was sitting in court Tuesday listening to the expert testify that he believed her son would not have earned any money even if he had not died of a propofol overdose.
Briggs, however, previously consulted for the Jackson estate in determining a value of it's biggest asset -- the Sony-ATV music catalog that includes the Beatles songs. He testified that before he signed a contract to serve as an expert in AEG Live's defense he sought and gained permission from the Jackson estate lawyer Jeryll Cohen to waive any potential conflict of interest.
"She (Cohen) was well aware of everything that was going on," Briggs testified.

AD made it sound like estate did it behind KJ's back, and theyallowed Briggs to testify because they want to help AEG:smilerolleyes:
Come to think about it, AD sounds like he talked with Randy:doh:
 
Panish needs to be a little careful with Briggs, rather than show a conflict of interest he may make the jury believe that Briggs is highly qualified to comment on Michael.
 
Here's a break down on Arnold Klein's final bill to Michael Jackson's Estate.

March 23, 2009
R E T Visit Extension
I.M. injection
I.M. injection
Botox undereyes
Michael was getting Botox under his eyes and this does sound painful. It looked like Michael's bill for the day was $250 + $60 + $60 + $450.
April 5, 2009
Return visit
I.M. injection
I.M. injection
Fine line needle
Restylane acc (About Restylane - Restylane is the first and only dermal filler made of crystal-clear gel called NASHA™ (Non-Animal Stabilized Hyaluronic Acid). Restylane uses a dual mechanism of action to correct wrinkles and folds. Upon being injected beneath the skin's surface, the NASHA gel adds natural volume and lift to smooth wrinkles and folds. The NASHA gel integrates into dermal tissue, then attracts and binds to water molecules to help maintain volume. Restylane is gradually degraded by the body's own mechanism and disappears without any residue. Results can be seen immediately following treatment and last six months, or even longer. Restylane does not require any allergy or skin test prior to injection. As with any dermal filler, reported side effects include temporary redness and swelling at the injection site. These effects usually resolve within two days.) http://www.accentscosmeticsurgery.com/restylane_article.htm
April 9, 2009
same exact as April 5, 2009 $250 + $60 + $60 + $40 + $600 twice to include both April 5 and April 9
April 13, 2009
same as April 5, 2009 and April 9, 2009
April 15, 2009
10 items
2 I.M. injections
Fine line needle
Restylane acc
After hour call
5 Latanoprost - DescriptionLatanoprost is used to treat certain kinds of glaucoma. It is also used to treat a condition called hypertension of the eye. Latanoprost appears to work by increasing the outflow of fluid from the eye. This lowers the pressure in the eye. This medicine is available only with your doctor's prescription.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR600831
The after hour call was $1000. The five Latanoprost treatments for Michael's eye condition was $200 each.
April 17, 2009
7 items
3 I.M. injections
Fine line needle
Restylane
Botox
Weekend office call
The Botox treatment was $1500 and the weekend office call was $5000
April 21, 2009
3 items
Return visit
botox
misc. charge
This botox treatment was $3,000 and $25 for the misc. charge
April 22, 2009
11 items
4 I.M. injections
EMLA
EMLA cream is used for:
Relieving pain of normal intact skin and numbing skin to pain from injections and other medical procedures.
EMLA cream is a local anesthetic. It works by blocking nerves from transmitting painful impulses to the brain. http://www.drugs.com/cdi/emla-cream.html
fine line needle
nutritic lips
Description
Transforming care for very dry lips in a convenient stick. Transforms the four signs of dry, sensitive lips: tingling, sensitivity, thinness and chapping.
http://www.laroche-posay.us/_us/_en/consumer/catalog/ByType/Dry/nutritic-lips.htm
return visit
3 restylane
$45 for EMLA cream + $12.50 for nutritic lips
April 23, 2009
2 items
These similar procedures continued up to Michael's death. To continue reading what day the procedures occurred on and what were the procedures read this...
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/1027_klein_jackson_wm.pdf

Michael Jackson went to Dr. Arnold Klein's office for cosmetic procedures. The demerol treatments were not intended to make Michael high, it was part of the painful procedures to beautify him!
 
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