The implant it seems was interfering with the meds. It was not good that Michael said nothing about having the impant. But kind of fits about not saying anything in 09 about propofol when asked if he was ok
20 Oct 02 -- patient states he need some help him with his addiction problem. He does not wish to go to an outpatient rehab facility despite the pressure from family. Discussed with him option of Naltrexone.
Dr. Farshchian said Jackson was adamant about not going to rehab facility. He was concerned about his privacy and paparazzi.
04 Nov 02 -- Jackson's weight was 128 -- pre-procedure, cut the skin, insert implant chip of Naltrexone.
According to ABC, he got the first implant in november 02, so he did not have it at the time.
Thanks Bouee, still seems odd to need to go to the hospital (odd with Saunders not Michael) when Saunders was administering pain meds and could write prescriptions.
I guess they gave enough information for the purpose of the trial but not enough for us to completely understand it.
Btw I double checked, Michael had the implant put in late 2002, so it wasn't in place on that hospital visit.
Rebbie is going to be talking about how MJ was an addict in denial, and interventions.
Randy in no doubt is going on the same route, as AEG wouldn't have used their depostions if they weren't helpful for AEG, not Jacksons.
What going on with these video depositions and why so many?
Ivy, do you have any idea why one party is using so many video depositions and other party don't object them because they cannot be questioned by other side?
@last tear, i think I got it :
24th feb 01 : Saunders takes him to the ER : he fell down the stairs 2 days ago, his foot is swollen. He is given demerol, and told that pain med had to be given by a healthcare professional.
25th feb 01, a few hours after the feb 24th visit , Michael goes back to the ER for more pain med. That's where the record states he asked for "copious" amounts of pain med.
26th feb 01 : goes back to the hospital. His foot had been casted by Dr saunders on the same day. He gets demerol +another med .
14 december 01 : Saunders brings him again to the hopsital - that must be the reaction- Saunders had given him the 'usual' dose of 200mg demerol + other med , and Michael told him afterwards that another doctor had given him demerol before.
The date of the alert bracelet is not clear, it looks like it's the december visit.
EDIT : "usual" is my word, it's not on the medical record. It's the same dose as in the february records.
According to ABC, he got the first implant in november 02, so he did not have it at the time.
Actually I don't think the implant is mentioned in Saunders testimony
The question remains what kind of Doctor starts dispensing narcotic drugs without doing their due diligence? They were treating a world famous superstar who everyone knew had a 1993 drug problem and who knew had scalp injuries from a burn in the Pepsi commercial in 1984 in addition to all the media speculation of his plastic surgery. So these doctors were not dumb. They knew and they should've done physical exams on MJ before treating him. Why didn't they run blood and urine tests before treating him since they were well aware of his past issues?
I can also see with the number of times Michael was given propofol for procedures--far more than we ever knew--it seems that it may have become routine to him and that may have lead to his high comfort level with Murray administering it in his bedroom. But, unlike the doctors testifying who had all the hospital-level equipment in place to do it safely, Murray took dangerous risks and played Russian Roulette with Michael's life.
ivy;3876045 said:^^
Not everything is about the implant.
My fear is that they are going with doctor shopping & addiction argument. Doctor shopping is when you go to multiple doctors for the same issue and get prescriptions from them all and don't disclose the other prescriptions. Doctor shopping also happens generally when the patient has a legitimate condition & get a prescription from their doctor but then go to other doctors by exaggerating their condition and get multiple prescriptions.
If you pay attention to the timelines, you will see that the doctors and their treatments overlap. Also secrecy as some doctors aren't aware of some of the other doctors.
Saunders seems to be treating Michael February 2001 for his foot, Farshian treated him April 2001 for his ankle. There's multiple visits to ER with "copious" pain medicine ( their record also sounds like they are suspicious about the second visit and second pain medicine request) and there's the instance of double dosing on Demerol when Dr. Saunders gives him without knowing another doctor gave a dose soon before.
You see Fournier not being told about the implant, although he gave MJ propofol & pain medicines multiple times after Michael got the implant.
So it also shows a risk taking by not disclosing it to the doctors, there's the risk - and actual instances - of double dosing and drug reactions.
so I think Putnam is establishing this from his opening statement
Putnam states that they did not see this coming. They had no idea. Putnam starts talking about what we learned after June 25th. He says in 1993 Michael announced the world he had a problem with painkillers and went to rehab. He says publicly people thought the rehab worked. He says that Michael was secretive about his painkiller addiction. Michael was getting drugs from doctors. Putnam says there was usually a plausible reason for drug use. For instance Michael would have a minor cosmetic procedure but would get the same painkiller he would get for surgery. Outsiders will think he got the painkillers because he was having a procedure. Second doctors were bound by doctor – patient confidentiality. Even when they were concerned that Michael was using too much painkillers, they couldn’t tell anybody. The most they can do is to refuse to treat Michael further and Michael always found someone else.
Putnam says Michael was back and forth on and off painkillers and he was very secretive about it. He says Michael did not even tell his doctors about the procedures he was receiving from other doctors. Putnam shows a chart of the doctors they were able to identify and he says they believe there were many other doctors. Putnam says Dr. Metzger will testify that he was concerned that Michael had different doctors in different places and Michael wouldn’t tell him about these other doctors and what they were giving him. Putnam says Dr. Van Valin in 2001 gave Michael a Demerol shot for back pain and noticed a spot of blood on Michael’s shirt. He suspected Michael had another shot of Demerol the same day. He said to Michael he can’t double up and it could kill him. Dr. Van Valin stopped treating Michael shortly after this event. Putnam says Dr. Samuel from Santa Inez Valley College Hospital will tell them the same thing.
Putnam says Michael tried to get better but later he just tried to keep it a secret and distanced himself from everyone. He says they knew about the 1993 rehab but they learned about the 2002 rehab during discovery for this case. Putnam says the jury will hear from Mike Laperruque – a bodyguard of Michael. He says Laprerruque found Michel passed out at a hotel at Disneyworld in 2002 and Michael’s own children had to call 911. It was this time Michael went back to rehab. Putnam says it was an outpatient rehab and Dr. Alimorad Farschcian was helping Michael. Putnam says Dr. Farschcian went so far as to put an implant in Michael to help him stop using painkillers. He says as a result Michael was better and drug free in 2002 and 2003.
Putnam says it looked like Michael turned a corner but then the horrible child molestation accusations and criminal trial happened. He says the jury will hear evidence that Michael went to another doctor to get the implant removed and after that asked for painkillers. Putnam says the jury will hear from Michael’s family that there was a wall they can’t get beyond. They will try to stage interventions, Michael would refuse to admit he has a problem, refuse to go to rehab and he was very very convincing even with his own family. Putnam says the jury will hear from Michael’s own family members that would say they don’t believe he ever had a problem after 1993 or they believed he seemed fine and did not need intervention.
I don't think implant is relevant to what Saunders testified.
I always refer back to the opening statement because they are like a road map of what to expect. and if everyone refers back to it,they can understand how the testimony fits with the roapmap given the first day.
go back and read what you posted. It's not even remotely realistic. Do you know how blood tests work? If they aren't looking for opoids, it won't show on the regular blood tests. It's not like you send blood for cholesterol check and it comes with a result of this person is abusing Demerol. And you can't run tests without consent. Have you ever been to a doctor that said "I need to run a drug test first before I treat you"? and it seems your point is once an addict always an addict?
I don't think implant is relevant to what Saunders testified.
I always refer back to the opening statement because they are like a road map of what to expect. and if everyone refers back to it,they can understand how the testimony fits with the roapmap given the first day.
go back and read what you posted. It's not even remotely realistic. Do you know how blood tests work? If they aren't looking for opoids, it won't show on the regular blood tests. It's not like you send blood for cholesterol check and it comes with a result of this person is abusing Demerol. And you can't run tests without consent. Have you ever been to a doctor that said "I need to run a drug test first before I treat you"? and it seems your point is once an addict always an addict?
if he was addicted to it , he would have needed it on daily basis , everyday . Did they establish that ?
He faked his swollen leg ? did he pay to fabricate the X ray too to get demerol ? -_-
They are focusing on that period 2001-2002 , Even in their opening statement 90% of the doctors mentioned were from that period . They make it seem like decades of addiction .
well if MJ refused urine and blood samples then don't treat him right? Cherilyn said she did both blood and urine on MJ before she started treating him. She said she always does to see if anything is wrong with the patient before she starts her treatment. She said MJ was clean before her treatments.
Hell Fornier said Klein was right there with him and told him about the implant after the fact.
A problem enough for him to get an implant.
ivy;3876089 said:It's obvious that they won't be able to establish the full drug history and they don't have to. It is all about what the jury believes and this is a civil trial, all that is needed for AEG's strategy to work that the jury think Michael is more likely to be doctor shopping.
how is this any relevant to what I posted? I'm pretty sure even in my general example of doctor shopping I said "happens generally when the patient has a legitimate condition". I added "then go to other doctors by exaggerating their condition and get multiple prescriptions. " To me if you read the emergency report, it seems like they don't understand the second visit and they are suspicious about the continuing complaint - although nothing is worse & a lot of pain medicine was already given.
Putnam states that they did not see this coming. They had no idea. Putnam starts talking about what we learned after June 25th. He says in 1993 Michael announced the world he had a problem with painkillers and went to rehab. He says publicly people thought the rehab worked. He says that Michael was secretive about his painkiller addiction. Michael was getting drugs from doctors. Putnam says there was usually a plausible reason for drug use. For instance Michael would have a minor cosmetic procedure but would get the same painkiller he would get for surgery. Outsiders will think he got the painkillers because he was having a procedure. Second doctors were bound by doctor – patient confidentiality. Even when they were concerned that Michael was using too much painkillers, they couldn’t tell anybody. The most they can do is to refuse to treat Michael further and Michael always found someone else.
Right that he realized he needed because he wanted off for his kids and he didn't like it anymore according to Farschian. That shows MJ wanted help and he sought it out. So this brings me back to Janet and company. How was MJ in denial as she claimed on Oprah after MJ died? Isn't denial not acknowledging a problem? Well MJ acknowledged it and sought help didn't he?
^^^^^ Yes, a year before. And yet he had a med alert bracelet on.