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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Michael truly is a Star Wars fan, he's wearing a robe just like the Darth's!


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This Case Is Messed UP. This sleep expert claims demerol withdrawal can cause a lack of sleep. Now if they are hinting that druggie Michael took Demerol which caused his sleep issue, wouldn't they have to show that Klein gave Demerol, and it was after that treatment that sleep problems arouse? However, Panish claimed that Michael had this sleep problem before, so what is it? If he had the sleep problem before, is his current sleep issue due to this ongoing sleep problem that arose in the past, OR is it due to demerol by Klein. Also, the sleep doc forget to add in his analysis the last time Michael got demerol from Klien to see if demerol would still have an impact on his sleep. Then someone needs to show that Michel was sleeping before April and then when Muarry or Klien came on board the sleep problems began. Otherwise demerol will have no impact here in the same way it had no impact in the Muarry trial. Then, since Muarry did not give Michael demerol, and this case is about AEG hiring Muarry, what is demerol given by Klien going to do for this case? If this sleep doc is showing that Klien caused the sleep problem, then that puts some of the blame off Muarry. Muarry is going to look like the guy who tried to solve the problem Klien caused, and I Don't Like It One Bit!!

Also, why is a sleep expert in court, since AEG did not know Muarry was treating Michael for a sleep disorder. You see that is another problem I have with this judge. In a situation like this, someone would make an objection for no foundation made. Then Panish would then have to put someone on the stand to PROVE that Michael had a sleep disorder and that Muarry was treating it with prof. We don't have the full testimony but it seems non of this happened.

So now we have this doc with his story about demerol causing sleep issues, and how prof is not for sleep disorders (Oh really fancy that we did not know that one). Yet, no one showed that AEG knew Michael's problems were due to sleep, and that they knew Muarry was treating it with prof.

What we have is another expert running off with Michael's money and his value in this case is nada.

Ash funny you thinking that was a blanket. I wonder where that cape is now--very sexy indeed.
 
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myosotis;3849642 said:
As to Kai's testimony...well I'm just feeling that there aren't many people in this trial who are giving an objective view. Most witnesses seem to be either linked to one side or the other or to have been paid. I was surprised that she reported the children as going on a snail hunt with their teacher and looking for a daddy, mummy and baby snail in the garden. I thought all land snails were hermaphrodite ie no such thing as a daddy or mummy snail. Maybe Californian snails are different. If I can't see truth in supposedly factual information unconnected with the trial, I don't feel that I will find truth in verbal reports of the events leading up to the 25th June.
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Myosotis, are you saying you cannot believe Chase’s testimony because of the story about snails? Her testimony about the day Michael passed has not changed from what she testified to in the criminal trial. Michael’s daughter said she found a “daddy” snail and was looking for “mommy” and “baby” snail. She was 10 years old? I do not expect Michael’s daughter or Chase to know offhand that snails are both genders. I thought the teacher was teaching a child about familial roles using the snails.

LastTear;3850303 said:
@Tygger, confused, what did you mean by this
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I meant he was a child and he was not physically strong enough to help his father up the steps but, I believe he would rush to help if he saw his father needed help in any way.

LastTear;3850314 said:
@Tygger, my understanding s that they could terminate the agreement if Murray did not obtain his licences, the tour was cancelled or if Mchael didn't want him anymore.
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Agreed however, they really should not have any reason to fire the doctor because they should not have allegedly hired him. Any issues Michael had with the doctor should be between him and the doctor.
 
I have to wonder if the jury is starting to ask WTH these experts have to do with who hired Murray. Does it really matter which doctor and which drug caused the insomnia? The fact is he had insomnia and only Michael and the felon knew about the propofol. Why this judge continues to allow this mind-numbing, extraneous testimony is baffling. It's a waste of time and the other side hasn't even started yet. And, we know AEG will go after Michael because, of course, it's about Michael's life and not who hired Murray. We'll be seeing more of the same--both sides vilifying MJ.
 
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Lena Lucy said:
Yep, it's a hooded cape.
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ivy said:
^^

to me it looks like he's wearing a hooded cape
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I don't see a hood ?

Anyway, others testified it was a blanket (Sankey, Travis are the ones I can think of now, i think Karen did too). Phillips said he couldn't remember, but that wouldn't have surprised him since Staples Center was "freezing cold"- in this video, there are at least 3 persons wearing short sleeves.

Petrarose said:
Also, why is a sleep expert in court, since AEG did not know Muarry was treating Michael for a sleep disorder. You see that is another problem I have with this judge. In a situation like this, someone would make an objection for no foundation made. Then Panish would then have to put someone on the stand to PROVE that Michael had a sleep disorder and that Muarry was treating it with prof. We don't have the full testimony but it seems non of this happened.

So now we have this doc with his story about demerol causing sleep issues, and how prof is not for sleep disorders (Oh really fancy that we did not know that one). Yet, no one showed that AEG knew Michael's problems were due to sleep, and that they knew Muarry was treating it with prof.
.
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I don't understand the bolded part, can you please explain what you mean ?

I think both experts were irrelevant, or shouldn't not have testified for so long.
It's interesting to see what sleep deprivation can do, so that could have been one of the explanations of what Michael was suffering from. But that expert can not explain Michael's insomnia, as he did not talk with him , and explaining his insmonia would probably be irrelevant too, except when they say anxiety would make it worse, which is common knowledge I think. So, pressuring someone who has insomnia is not a great idea.
I think AEG (Phillips anyway, at least) knew about the sleep issues , it's clear now that those have been discussed in one or serveral meetings. IMO , Phillips, maybe others too, knew that it was Murray's job to deal with it. Why they don't want to say it is actually very supsicious.
But they were not doctors themselves, they couldn't have guessed what Michael was suffering from, so in this aspect, these experts are irrelevant IMO.
Or maybe this is to say that another doctor, if AEG had called one, would have thought about sleep deprivation.


LastTear said:
@Tygger, my understanding s that they could terminate the agreement if Murray did not obtain his licences, the tour was cancelled or if Mchael didn't want him anymore.
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That's also how I understand Murray's contract, BUT it wasn't signed. AEG is using this to say that's why they didn't pay Murray. it also means they could have pulled out from it anytime they wanted.
If the contract was that binding, they would have had no other choice than to pay Murray.
 
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Tygger said:
I meant he was a child and he was not physically strong enough to help his father up the steps but, I believe he would rush to help if he saw his father needed help in any way.



Agreed however, they really should not have any reason to fire the doctor because they should not have allegedly hired him. Any issues Michael had with the doctor should be between him and the doctor.
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Re Prince, thanks, yes I agree, I'm sure Prince would help but as he has testified that he has never helped him up the stairs I guess that means he didn't witness his father needing help, unless we hear anything differently later on.

Re Firing, I'm sure AEG would agree with you. :) Your original post said:
This case is focused on hiring. AEG could fire the doctor if it is proven they allegedly hired him.
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Which is not the case (as I understand it), but I do agree with you that AEG should not be involved between Michael and the doctor, and again I'm sure AEG would agree with you. :)
 
bouee said:
I don't see a hood ?

Anyway, others testified it was a blanket (Sankey, Travis are the ones I can think of now, i think Karen did too). Phillips said he couldn't remember, but that wouldn't have surprised him since Staples Center was "freezing cold"- in this video, there are at least 3 persons wearing short sleeves.



That's also how I understand Murray's contract, BUT it wasn't signed. AEG is using this to say that's why they didn't pay Murray. it also means they could have pulled out from it anytime they wanted.
If the contract was that binding, they would have had no other choice than to pay Murray.
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But equally, if it was that unbinding then this trial might not be happening. I goes to the verbal unsigned knowledge that Murray was working in that capacity.

*********

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 40m
Study shows that rats sleep deprived became scrawny, disheveled, unable to maintain body temperature, Dr. Czeisler testified.
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I guess this is where the blanket/cape came into the proceedings. Clearly any lay person would not be aware of this unless they had experience. The only person who could have put the pieces together was Murray.

Also, getting back to this Demerol withdrawl causing insomnia (Murray's defence :angry: ) , again how would AEG have knowledge of that? And even if true, the responsibly still falls firmly at Murray's feet.
 
smoothlugar;3850373 said:
I thought the meeting he is referring was precisely the one mentioned in that email. That was my impression when he changed testimony from depo to say the meeting was only to make sure Murray had everything. If he wanted to know that from Murray he could have only asked him, AFTER he received his first draft by Kathy Jorrie, and if I'm not wrong, she said in Murray trial that the first draft contract for Murray was on 13th June. Gongaware also said that MJ had come from AK (June 16th?)

About the meeting where the vase was broken, Gongaware doesn't recall and Phillips said the vase was broken in a production meeting prior to June 20th...
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I think Ortega's testimony will clear this up, and/or maybe whatever was found in frank's emails, if they are used. Sometimes I wonder if the confusion of the meetings in this trial comes from the way it is reported, or if it's strategy on AEG's part.

PG wrote a mail to confirm Murray was "hired" on 6th May to MAW, then he sent another e mail to say that murray would be full time on tour by may 15th. Then Pg says he was not involved with Murray's contract, so he didn't know, according to him, what Jorrie was doing, and when Murray received contract drafts.

I think there were at least 3 meetings :
- 1st week of june, PG said he was there

- mid june (meeting probably happened on 18th, I think it's the "intervention" planned on the june 17th e mail), PG was there or not (karen said it was Ortega & not PG, PG is at least unclear about it, Kai Chase said PG was there, and that's when the vase was broken) . I think PG deliberatly forgot about this one, unless it was common that vases were broken and voices raised, and the whole thing started with his "remind him" e mail.

- 20th june- PG was definitely not there, he was at a wedding in the east

Kai Chase mentionning Michael was cold excludes the first week of june, IMO.

I went through PG's , RP's and KO's testimony about the meetings at CM trial, and here's what I found , related to those meetings :

Ortega :

Ortega states that there was a meeting on 6/19, with the heads of AEG, Randy Phillips and Gongaware. Ortega heard that Phillips and Gongaware told MJ that if he didn't start showing up to rehearsals, the This Is It tour would be cancelled.

-On 6/20/09, Ortega is asked to go to MJ's house for a meeting with Randy Phillips, Frank Dileo, Conrad Murray and MJ. The topic is that Murray is upset that Ortega home. Murray tells Ortega that he should stop being an amateur doctor, and leave that to Murray. Ortega clarifies that he did not make the decision to send Michael home on the rehearsal date 6/19, it was a mutual decision between Ortega and MJ. Ortega states that Murray's demeanor is stern.

personal note : that's 2 meetings, 1st wek of june is not mentionned

PG :

- Another early June meeting in Carolwood with Ortega, Dileo, Phillips, Gongaware, Murray and Michael. The meeting happened because Kenny Ortega believed that Michael wasn’t at the stage he needed to be and they might not be ready for the show.


- Gongaware said that the tone in the meeting was great and that Michael wasn’t defensive on the contrary he was engaged. They discussed what they can do to give Michael everything he needs to get to where he needs to be such as health and eating habits.


Early June there was a meeting to discuss MJ's health and stamina attended by MJ, CM, PG, Frank Dileo, Randy Phillips. It was a positive meeting. PG was also aware of the June 20 meeting but did not attend.

PG saw CM at rehearsals at Forum rehearsal after the early June meeting. PG did not see Murray at other meetings.

Meeting in early June was pushed by Kenny Ortega who was concerned that MJ was missing rehearsals.
.

RP

There was a meeting at the first week of June. Dileo was worried about MJ not eating enough. CM said he’ll make sure that MJ ate properly and he’ll give MJ supplemental protein drinks. CM told them MJ’s health was good. Phillips say it is obvious to him that MJ trusted CM and they had close relationship. This was the first time Phillips met CM.
Phillips says he mentioned that MJ was seeing Klein in the meeting at the first week of June. Phillips says CM either knew or said that he would check into it.

There was a concern raised by Ortega at the second week of June. Ortega felt like MJ wasn’t as engaged as he needed to be. The main concern was MJ’s focus and attending rehearsals.

Phillips says he wasn’t sure what Ortega meant by tough love and pulling the plug. Phillips say no one was contemplating pulling the plug and there was no concern that the show would be cancelled, they would have been postponed. After Ortega’s email Dileo called and asked Phillips to arrange a meeting. Phillips called CM to arrange the meeting

June 20th meeting. MJ, CM, Phillips and Ortega were present. Ortega started by saying MJ needed to focus and show more engagement. MJ told Ortega that he was ready and “you build the house and I’ll put the door and paint”

Walgren goes over the meetings. The meeting in first week of June was about MJ not eating enough and CM said he’ll take care of it. MJ had great trust in CM. 19th June meeting was about missing rehearsals. CM was very reassuring and told Ortega to take care of the show and CM was the doctor and he would take care of MJ’s health.
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smoothlugar;3850373 said:
It seems more than a coincidence that Gongaware mentioned those cold sweats, it doesn't matter whether he was joking or not, but how could he know about the cold sweats??
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Honestly, i think PG's email had nothing to do with Michael's health. If you look at the e mails in chronological order, it sounds like it had more to do with the change of management (DiLeo/Tohme) , that sounded very unclear at the time, and I think that's where Pg' "cold sweats" were coming from.
Nobody mentionned anything about Michael's health at the beginning of may , it started with Sankey at the end of may, apparently.
Paris said Michael was cold the last week, so it could mean it started around the 17th/18th.
Panish in his opening statement mentionned obvious health issues started on 18th.
 
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LastTear said:
But equally, if it was that unbinding then this trial might not be happening. I goes to the verbal unsigned knowledge that Murray was working in that capacity..
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yes, you have a point. But, then it means that executives were not aware at that time that Murray had not signed a contract yet, and so AEG considered Murray was hired ... not really good for them either.
Panish asked Phillips if, after the june 20th meeting, he talked to Murray about his contract, Phillips said he didn't. Whether that was true or not... ?? Mistery.
 
bouee said:
yes, you have a point. But, then it means that executives were not aware at that time that Murray had not signed a contract yet, and so AEG considered Murray was hired ... not really good for them either.
Panish asked Phillips if, after the june 20th meeting, he talked to Murray about his contract, Phillips said he didn't. Whether that was true or not... ?? Mistery.
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Ummm, no because the whole contract was nul and void if Michael didn't sign it, so at that stage it made no difference whether Murray had signed it or not, also my understanding was that this contract was still at the draft stage and could still be changed, but I honestly don't know much on the legal side of contracts. But the point is that Murray was carrying out those services already, based on being contracted, and I guess that's why the dates changed.
 
LastTear said:
Ummm, no because the whole contract was nul and void if Michael didn't sign it, so at that stage it made no difference whether Murray had signed it or not, also my understanding was that this contract was still at the draft stage and could still be changed, but I honestly don't know much on the legal side of contracts. But the point is that Murray was carrying out those services already, based on being contracted, and I guess that's why the dates changed.
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Oh, Ok. i meant AEG had not signed it, so AEG could have pulled out. I checked the contract, and it doesn't say who was supposed to sign it at AEG.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...AEG-Contract?p=3428429&viewfull=1#post3428429
 
bouee said:
Oh, Ok. i meant AEG had not signed it, so AEG could have pulled out. I checked the contract, and it doesn't say who was supposed to sign it at AEG.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...AEG-Contract?p=3428429&viewfull=1#post3428429
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I really don't know on that one, common sense would tell me yes, at that point they could have pulled out. I guess that brings us back to whether they were aware that Michael's missed rehearsals were a direct result of Murray's treatment of him. Whether any issues they did raise in any meetings were entirely Murray's fault, and that they knew it was, or hugely suspected him anyway. We know they were, but we have the benefit of hindsight.

ETA The only aspect I consoled myself on with this lawsuit was that we may at least end up with some answers, instead it seems to just be creating more questions. smdh
 
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Petrarose said:
This Case Is Messed UP. This sleep expert claims demerol withdrawal can cause a lack of sleep. Now if they are hinting that druggie Michael took Demerol which caused his sleep issue, wouldn't they have to show that Klein gave Demerol, and it was after that treatment that sleep problems arouse? However, Panish claimed that Michael had this sleep problem before, so what is it? If he had the sleep problem before, is his current sleep issue due to this ongoing sleep problem that arose in the past, OR is it due to demerol by Klein. Also, the sleep doc forget to add in his analysis the last time Michael got demerol from Klien to see if demerol would still have an impact on his sleep. Then someone needs to show that Michel was sleeping before April and then when Muarry or Klien came on board the sleep problems began. Otherwise demerol will have no impact here in the same way it had no impact in the Muarry trial. Then, since Muarry did not give Michael demerol, and this case is about AEG hiring Muarry, what is demerol given by Klien going to do for this case? If this sleep doc is showing that Klien caused the sleep problem, then that puts some of the blame off Muarry. Muarry is going to look like the guy who tried to solve the problem Klien caused, and I Don't Like It One Bit!!
.
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I would see that as an AEG argument, that could easily be disproved as it was disproved at CM's trial. Klein's demerol was not a bright idea, but did not have any particular consequence.
Michael's insomnia was certainly a combination of many things, I think the most relevant person to explain it would be Metzger, but it's not relevant to this trial, except maybe for the damages evaluation.
 
bouee said:
I would see that as an AEG argument, that could easily be disproved as it was disproved at CM's trial. Klein's demerol was not a bright idea, but did not have any particular consequence.
Michael's insomnia was certainly a combination of many things, I think the most relevant person to explain it would be Metzger, but it's not relevant to this trial, except maybe for the damages evaluation.
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And yet, he is in fact Jacksons witness, and Jackson attorneys are the ones bringing up demerol and its withdrawl symptoms. So Jacksons are using Murray's defence! Don't know why though.
 
LastTear said:
And yet, he is in fact Jacksons witness, and Jackson attorneys are the ones bringing up demerol and its withdrawl symptoms. So Jacksons are using Murray's defence! Don't know why though.
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I didn't focus too much on this : it's hard to understand a medical testimony with only tweets, it's not precise enough. Demerol was just a small part from what I read. My understanding of today's testimony was an explanation of sleep and lack of sleep, that demerol gave "natural sleep" (as opposed to propofol that doesn't give natural sleep) and so demerol can mess up with your natural sleep rythms, and withdrawal from demerol can cause "secondary' insomnia, ie increase insomania.

it was Dr Earley , the day before, in a deposition, who said that demerol was Michael's primary addiction (I understood primary as "1st" , meaning that's how it sarted years ago), and that in 2009 michael was addicted to opioids. Based on what ? It was shown during CM's trial, that it was not the case, Michael had a high tolerance to opioids, that's all they could say, and it's very different from addiction.
EDIT : the visits to Klein were too irregular to create an addiction, Michael had no opioids whatsoever in his home, not even non opiates painkillers such as paracetamol or ibuprofen, Murray didn't buy any. So that's weird to say that, it can easily be disproved or challenged.

I really don't think it was defending Murray at all, at least not yet, since Murray knew about Klein. I think this argument will be used by AEG though, and they will bring it up, wether Jacksons bring it up, or not. It was a strange move from the Jacksons, or i'm missing something. They can claim whatever they want that's not true, but bringing an expert to say that is just weird, IMO, and a waste of time.

Or , do they want AEG to impeach their expert ? the testimony seemed to upset AEg's lawyers, I don't understand why.

And anyway, most of it was irrelevant, as AEG are not doctors, how could they figure this out ?
 
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If this is the right section to put this Im unsure, but the news article thread was closed. I found this article to be a real eye opener and as a person who suffers from lack of quality sleep it is very interesting and certainly explains some of the reports we have heard about how Michael was in those end days.

(Ref link below)


Expert: Michael Jackson went 60 days without real sleep

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Michael Jackson died while preparing to set a world record for the most successful concert run ever, but he unknowingly set another record that led to his death.

Jackson may be the only human ever to go two months without REM -- Rapid Eye Movement -- sleep, which is vital to keep the brain and body alive. The 60 nights of propofol infusions Dr. Conrad Murray said he gave Jackson to treat his insomnia is something a sleep expert says no one had ever undergone.

Propofol disrupts the normal sleep cycle and offers no REM sleep, yet it leaves a patient feeling refreshed as if they had experienced genuine sleep, according to Dr. Charles Czeisler, a Harvard Medical School sleep expert testifying at the wrongful death trial of concert promoter AEG LIve.

If the singer had not died on June 25, 2009, of an overdose of the surgical anesthetic, the lack of REM sleep may have soon taken his life anyway, according to an opinion by Czeisler.

AEG CEO e-mail: Big trouble with MJ
Lab rats die after five weeks of getting no REM sleep, he said. It was never tried on a human until Dr. Murray gave Michael Jackson nightly propofol infusions for two months.

Czeisler -- who serves as a sleep consultant to NASA, the CIA and the Rolling Stones -- testified Thursday that the "drug induced coma" induced by propofol leaves a patient with the same refreshed feeling of a good sleep, but without the benefits that genuine sleep delivers in repairing brain cells and the body.

"It would be like eating some sort of cellulose pellets instead of dinner," he said. "Your stomach would be full and you would not be hungry, but it would be zero calories and not fulfill any of your nutrition needs."

Depriving someone of REM sleep for a long period of time makes them paranoid, anxiety-filled, depressed, unable to learn, distracted, and sloppy, Czeisler testified. They lose their balance and appetite, while their physical reflexes get 10 times slower and their emotional responses 10 times stronger, he said.

Those symptoms are strikingly similar to descriptions of Jackson in his last weeks as described in e-mails from show producers and testimony by witnesses in the trial.

Jackson's mother and children are suing AEG Live, contending the company is liable in his death because it hired, retained or supervised Dr. Murray, who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. They argue the promoter pressured Dr. Murray to get Jackson to rehearsals, while failing to get Jackson help despite numerous red flags warning that he was in trouble.

AEG Live lawyers contend it was Jackson who chose, hired and supervised Murray and their executives had no way of knowing about the dangerous propofol treatments administered in the privacy of Jackson's rented mansion.

A very long question

Czeisler is back on the witness stand Friday to answer a question that was asked just as court ended Thursday. Jackson lawyer Michael Koskoff asked his expert what may also be a record breaker in a trial -- a 15-minute-long hypothetical question.

He was asked to render an opinion based on a long list of circumstances presented so far in the trial about Jackson's condition and behavior, including:

-- That Murray administered propofol to Jackson 60 consecutive nights before June 22, 2009.

-- That Murray began to wean Jackson from propofol on June 22, 2009, and gave him none of the drug on June 23.

-- That a paramedic who tried to revive him the day he died initially assumed he was a hospice patient.

-- That show producers reported Jackson became progressively thinner, paranoid and was talking to himself in his final weeks.

-- That the production manager warned Jackson had deteriorated over eight weeks, was "a basket case" who he feared might hurt himself on stage and could not do the multiple 360 spins that he was known for.

-- That show director Kenny Ortega wrote Jackson was having trouble "grasping the work" at rehearsals" and needed psychiatric help.

-- That Jackson needed a teleprompter to remember the words to songs he had sung many times before over several decades.

-- That show workers reported the singer was talking to himself and repeatedly saying that "God is talking to me."

-- That Jackson was suffering severe chills on a summer day in Los Angeles and his skin was cold as ice to the touch.

AEG Live lawyers objected to the question because the information about Murray's nightly propofol treatments was derived only from the doctor's statement to police after Jackson's death. The judge previously ruled that statement was inadmissible. It was a ruling made earlier in the trial when Jackson lawyers objected to AEG's use of Murray's statement that he believed he was Jackson's employee, not AEG Live's.

The statement could be used if Murray, who is serving a prison term, is brought into testify. But that is unlikely since the doctor has said he would impose his constitutional protections against self-incrimination as long as the appeal of his conviction is pending.

Jackson lawyers could clear the way for use of the statement by withdrawing their objection, something they are now considering.

Koskoff told the judge that his expert would testify that Jackson's symptoms perfectly matched what he would expect from someone who had been given long-term propofol treatments.

The jury is likely to hear his answer Friday.

A lecture on sleep

Jurors appeared quite interested as Czeisler lectured them Thursday on his sleep research, including an explanation of circadian rhythm -- the internal clock in the brain that controls the timing of when we sleep and wake and the timing of the release of hormones

"That's why we sleep at night and are awake in the day," he said.

Your brain needs sleep to repair and maintain its neurons every night, he said.

Blood cells cycle out every few weeks, but brain cells are for a lifetime, he said.

"Like a computer, the brain has to go offline to maintain cells that we keep for life, since we don't make more," he said. "Sleep is the repair and maintenance of the brain cells."

An adult should get 7-8 hours of sleep each night to allow for enough sleep cycles, he said.

You "prune out" unimportant neuron connections and consolidate important ones during your "slow eyed sleep" each night, he said. Those connections -- which is the information you have acquired during the day -- are consolidated by the REM sleep cycle. Your eyes actually dart back and forth rapidly during REM sleep.

"In REM, we are integrating the memories that we have stored during slow eyed sleep, integrating memories with previous life experiences." he said. "We are able to make sense of things that we may not have understood while awake.

Learning and memory happen when you are asleep, he said. A laboratory mouse rehearses a path through a maze to get to a piece of cheese while asleep.

A basketball player's area of the brain that is used to shoot a ball will have much greater slow eyed sleep period since there is more for it to store, he said. They shoot better after sleep.

The Portland Trailblazers consulted with him after they lost a series of East Coast basketball games, he said. He was able to give their players strategies for being sharper when traveling across time zones.

He's worked with the Rolling Stones on their sleep problems, he said. Musicians are vulnerable since they are traveling across time zones and usually "all keyed up" to perform at night, he said.

Czeisler developed a program for NASA to help astronauts deal with sleep issues in orbit, where they have a sunrise and sunset every 90 minutes.

Other clients include major industries that are concerned about night shift workers falling asleep on the job, the CIA, Secret Service and the U.S. Air Force, he said.

Jackson lawyers argue that AEG Live should have consulted a sleep expert like Czeisler for Jackson instead of hiring Murray -- a cardiologist -- for $150,000 to treat the artist.

The trial ends its eighth week in a Los Angeles courtroom Friday. Lawyers estimate the case will conclude in early Augus

Ref;

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/21/showbiz/jackson-death-trial/index.html
 
LastTear said:
And yet, he is in fact Jacksons witness, and Jackson attorneys are the ones bringing up demerol and its withdrawl symptoms. So Jacksons are using Murray's defence!
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Ain't that something! I was just thinking the very samething.

Murray and his attorney must be tickled pink. I've already heard his attorney using those very same words, i.e. "demerol and its withdrawl symptoms." I guess we can look forward to Murray using some of the information from Mother's side regarding demerol and its withdrawl symptoms, as he continues his appeals process.

Maybe Murray will call Anderson Cooper from his jail cell again and say: "See, I told you so, it's NOT my fault."

Thanks Again Mother!
 
Miche said:
Jackson lawyers argue that AEG Live should have consulted a sleep expert like Czeisler for Jackson instead of hiring Murray -- a cardiologist -- for $150,000 to treat the artist.
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I love how Jacksons ALWAYS point the finger at somebody else, but never at themselves.

I mean, how many people in Michael's immediate family knew he had trouble sleeping, whether he was touring or not. In my opinion, Mother had to know, as she was the one family member who spent the most time with Michael.

When they bum rushed Michael at that Beverly Hills Hotel meeting, did Mother or Joe bother to bring that issue up? Probably not. I know one of Joe Jackson's concerns was in the form of money Michael would be paid in. Joe Jackson didn't think Michael should be paid in U.S. dollars. And of course there was the issue of the AllGood Entertainment Family Reunion Concert. All of that on the table, I guess there was no time to discuss the possibility of Michael having any sleep issues.

TO BAD MOTHER AND COMPANY DIDN'T RETAIN DR. CZEISLER'S SERVICES A LONG, LONG TIME AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
[youtube]GDN2FNS0a-E[/youtube]

[youtube]RrT_WmjNBPw[/youtube]

[youtube]1ZW9Ck25LR0[/youtube]
 
about the Staples Center surveillance video.
is that the final pictures of michael, leaving the staples?
 
As I really don't understand why Earley's depo was used, I searched a litlle bit.
That Dr Earley , who said that Michael was addicted to demerol, and could not establish that Michael was addicted to benzos or propofol based on the records (ah ! he found Murray's records ? ) is actually an AEG expert.

So they're impeaching him before he takes the stand ?

Anyway, it gives a taste of what's ahead.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tory-Summary?p=3789659&viewfull=1#post3789659

AEG's 9 retained witnesses and what they are expected to testify as follows:

Paul Earley MD - propofol, substance abuse, risk and effects on life expectancy, methods of obtaining addictive drugs, treatment, relapse , eating disorders as they relate to life expectancy
Click to expand...
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http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tory-Summary?p=3812341&viewfull=1#post3812341

Dr Early is on AEG's witness list, not Katherine's

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http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tory-Summary?p=3787691&viewfull=1#post3787691
Additional names on the non retained experts list (Katherine's list)

Earley
Click to expand...

------
 
Last edited:
mjchris said:
about the Staples Center surveillance video.
is that the final pictures of michael, leaving the staples?
Click to expand...

i think it was first shown during Sankey's testimony, a while ago :
from her testimony
MJ showed up for Rehearsal on the 24th wrapped in a huge blanket. Rehearsal was at the Staples Center. (ABC7)

Jackson's last rehearsal was at the Staples Center in downtown Los Angeles on June 24, 2009. Security camera video shown to the jury Wednesday showed him walking with a blanket wrapped around him as he passed Sankey.
"He didn't look good," she testified. "I asked him if he was cold and he said 'Yes.'"
Click to expand...

from this, I assumed he was arriving at Staples.
 
As for the security camera footage, I think he's wearing a hooded cape (his head is covered) and not a blanket. and I think that cape could be seen in another picture


Michael-Jackson-and-Kenny-Ortega-36706514708.jpeg


to me it almost looks like the capes they wear at Harry Porter movies

Cape.jpg
 
Miche said:
The 60 nights of propofol infusions Dr. Conrad Murray said he gave Jackson to treat his insomnia is something a sleep expert says no one had ever undergone.
Click to expand...

Is that true, i.e. Murray gave Michael propofol for SIXTY DAYS STRAIGHT?

Does anybody remember what day it was when Michael attended that "bogus" anniversary dinner party for his parents, wherein most, if not all of the immediate family was in attendance? I'm thinking it was sometime in May.
 
ivy said:
As for the security camera footage, I think he's wearing a hooded cape (his head is covered) and not a blanket. and I think that cape could have seen in another picture


Michael-Jackson-and-Kenny-Ortega-36706514708.jpeg
Click to expand...

He's so cute! He "probably" saw somebody wearing one of those capes and had to have one for himself. He was such a character. LOL!

Reminds me of the time he went out wearing a Ed Hardy outfit. The top was one set of colors and the bottoms were a totally different set of colors. But there he was in all his glory, going about his business without a care in the world. A character indeed!
 
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