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NEW SONG - Akon feat. Michael Jackson "Hold my hand" [updates in post #1]

Mystic said:
There's more talents than making complex melodies. Dancing, singing, rapping, timing, stuff like that. Making melodies is just a part.
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didn't say that was the only talent. just saying that i don't consider sampling TALENT. for if it was that way, timbaland would be number 1.
 
^ No he isn't, lol.

Well he ain't considered a "legend" because of his samples, he became a "legend" through his many lyrics in his songs, also for the number of raps he left behind after his death and of course the unsolved murder case and his spottings.

Has nothing to do with him sampling.

Diddy been sampling ish for 17 years doesn't mean he's a legend. He's a...buster. :lol:
 
troubleman84 said:
^ No he isn't, lol.

Well he ain't considered a "legend" because of his samples, he became a "legend" through his many lyrics in his songs, also for the number of raps he left behind after his death and of course the unsolved murder case and his spottings.

Has nothing to do with him sampling.

Diddy been sampling ish for 17 years doesn't mean he's a legend. He's a...buster. :lol:
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lol...sampling is an integral part of tupac's career. lol. becasuse it was part of the finished product that u heard on the radio. just because there was no commentary on it doesn't mean it wasn't integral. otherwise people would say that something is missing, when hearing it on the radio. tupac felt the need to use it and he did. it's one of those things u don't talk about while it's there, but miss it if it's not there. comon tim...don't fake non discernment just to keep up an argument with me, lol:tease:
 
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His sampling wasn't that integral, I mean yeah almost all the raps he released alive and posthumously was sampled, doesn't mean that made him a rap icon, lol.

I never heard any rapper being held as a pioneer for sampling other than probably MC Hammer. :lol:
 
vncwilliam said:
lol...sampling is an integral part of tupac's career. lol. becasuse it was part of the finished product that u heard on the radio. just because there was no commentary on it doesn't mean it wasn't integral. otherwise people would say that something is missing, when hearing it on the radio. tupac felt the need to use it and he did. it's one of those things u don't talk about while it's there, but miss it if it's not there. comon tim...don't fake non discernment.:tease:
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William, what does that mean? Don't discriminate? F**k that. :lol:

"Holla if you hear me". :tease:
 
vncwilliam said:
that means pretending like sampling wasn't part of tupac's inspirational package. if he didn't need it he would simply not have used it.:tease:
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The sampling don't make the rapper. DUH. :tease:

If that was the case, Diddy would be actually be considered a serious contender to be another honoree at the Hip-Hop Honors show. :lol:
 
troubleman84 said:
The sampling don't make the rapper. DUH. :tease:

If that was the case, Diddy would be actually be considered a serious contender to be another honoree at the Hip-Hop Honors show. :lol:
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the sampling helps. it made the difference between tupac's tracks and the tracks of others. and he said, himself, during a track, right on the recording, that he's too good for this track. in other words..he couldn't continue on a mediocre track. so..the tracks he used, helped him tremendously. :tease: it has nothing to do with ur opinion of who is a rapper and who isn't. lol
 
But you do notice that early hip-hop didn't just sample a song just to sample it. That's the fault rap in the late eighties and early nineties did. That's why artists were initially pissed when they heard the sample of THEIR songs on the radio. Chic almost took Sylvia and Joe Robinson to court because they sampled "Good Times" for "Rapper's Delight" (but I think they actually interpolated some elements and basically sampled Bernard Edwards' bass riff and Nile Rodgers' guitar riff). And I'm sure people like Norman Whitfield, Roger Troutman and the DeBarge family were happy to get paid when 'Pac made a hit off one of their samples. :tease:
 
troubleman84 said:
But you do notice that early hip-hop didn't just sample a song just to sample it. That's the fault rap in the late eighties and early nineties did. That's why artists were initially pissed when they heard the sample of THEIR songs on the radio. Chic almost took Sylvia and Joe Robinson to court because they sampled "Good Times" for "Rapper's Delight" (but I think they actually interpolated some elements and basically sampled Bernard Edwards' bass riff and Nile Rodgers' guitar riff). And I'm sure people like Norman Whitfield, Roger Troutman and the DeBarge family were happy to get paid when 'Pac made a hit off one of their samples. :tease:
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but do u really think they were pissed off due to the lack of quality of samples...or..were they just pissed off because they were not getting paid?

maybe...at first, they were shocked because of the revolution. people are always shocked due to change..but i'm sure they are more accepting as long as they get paid. and sampling helps the song and the rapper, just like MJ's beat helps inspire his dancing. lol:D
 
dangerous_88 said:
didn't say that was the only talent. just saying that i don't consider sampling TALENT. for if it was that way, timbaland would be number 1.
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sampling is an art. i love how people only hear Timbaland or Kanye and base their strong opinons on sampling just from that. go listen to Pete Rock, DJ Premier, J Dilla or someone of that hip-hop calibre and then try and make an objective standpoint on this particular form of sampling. go deeper and see that sampling has been used widely (and still is) beyond just one genre.
 
vncwilliam said:
but do u really think they were pissed off due to the lack of quality of samples...or..were they just pissed off because they were not getting paid?

maybe...at first, they were shocked because of the revolution. people are always shocked due to change..but i'm sure they are more accepting as long as they get paid. and sampling helps the song and the rapper, just like MJ's beat helps inspire his dancing. lol:D
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Nah I'm inclined to believe they were mad that they didn't get paid. ;)

And look I know sampling is important in hip-hop, I'm just saying it didn't make stars out of some rappers. Sure it may have helped in some other rappers' careers extraordinarily but that ain't what really made 'Pac popular. That's all I'm saying. :lol:
 
arXter said:
sampling is an art. i love how people only hear Timbaland or Kanye and base their strong opinons on sampling just from that. go listen to Pete Rock, DJ Premier, J Dilla or someone of that hip-hop calibre and then try and make an objective standpoint on this particular form of sampling. go deeper and see that sampling has been used widely (and still is) beyond just one genre.
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Yeah, now when you talk about THESE guys, they're fantastic. :yes:
 
troubleman84 said:
Yeah, now when you talk about THESE guys, they're fantastic. :yes:
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legends.

and with regards to Tupac, in hip-hop people know the producers (the sound is just as important) so we tend to speak of who produced the beat, not how well-known a rapper is for the samples used in their catalogue.

with Biggie Smalls, he was more closely associated with recurring producers like Combs, Primo and Pete Rock and the general East Coast sound was then much more into soulful, old-school hip-hop sampling. West Coast (Tupac) had the likes of Dr.Dre who tried to avoid sampling as much as possible and had more of that synth-heavy noise.
 
Yeah, that's what I was trying to tell WILLIAM a few minutes ago. :smilerolleyes: :lol: Just because the rapper uses them doesn't mean that they wanted it in there. Usually a producer would put an old song and sample it and make it a song he feels the rapper can rip. That's how it goes. :lol:

Tupac or any other rapper did NOT go out his/her way to find samples, producers did that. :yes: Then producers cut deals with the original songwriters whose work is sampled so they won't get no fuss. ^_^
 
arXter said:
sampling is an art. i love how people only hear Timbaland or Kanye and base their strong opinons on sampling just from that. go listen to Pete Rock, DJ Premier, J Dilla or someone of that hip-hop calibre and then try and make an objective standpoint on this particular form of sampling. go deeper and see that sampling has been used widely (and still is) beyond just one genre.
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so you say that you'd admire michael as well as if he were sampling instead of creating his own music?:mello:
 
No, I don't think he's saying that, lol. In fact I don't know how Michael got into this, lol. We ain't talking about nothing but sampling, lol. I doubt Michael would do that tho.
 
dangerous_88 said:
so you say that you'd admire michael as well as if he were sampling instead of creating his own music?:mello:
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... right, well it's obvious you haven't computed a word i said lol at least check out that link that explains what sampling is. and you'll know that Mike used it already lol it would also help if you got the sampling notion of muppets like Timbaland and Kanye out and dig deeper into how other producers use samples as instruments instead of a melody they could jack.
 
here's the article, which happens to come from my fav mag.


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SAMPLING BASICS: Part 1
Sampling Basics: Part 1
Published in SOS January 1996

Technique : Sampling

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Having come a long way from its humble beginnings in the early n-n-n-n-nineteen eighties, sampling is now an integral part of music making. PAUL WHITE explains what samplers do and how they can be used.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Just about every musician has heard of sampling, but unless you have a sampler and use it, you may not be clear about exactly what they can and can't do. A sampler is essentially a tapeless, digital recording device. At its most basic level, you need know no more about how sampling works; this series will leave an explanation of the principles behind digital recording to a future article.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Before we go on, it will be helpful to look at the two main ways people use samplers.[/FONT]


[FONT=arial,helvetica]SAMPLERS: WHAT ARE THEY GOOD FOR?[/FONT]

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[FONT=arial,helvetica]If you sample single musical notes, such as strings or organ sounds, you can use the sampler very much like any other synthesizer -- though you're not restricted to the manufacturer's own internal sounds, as with many synths. And absolutely any sound can be sampled and used as a musical instrument -- even everyday household objects. Indeed, most people, when they get their first sampler, go around the house hitting and scraping things to see what sounds good (for more on this curious side-effect of buying your first sampler, see the article on Off The Wall Sampling back in SOS June '94).[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]The other popular way of using samplers is to record not just individual notes but whole musical or rhythmic phrases, and this way of working forms the cornerstone of modern dance music construction. Typically, you might sample a four-bar drum rhythm, for example, and then trigger this on the first beat of every bar to provide a continuous rhythmic backing. [/FONT]

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_articles/jan96/samplebasics1.html​
 
I get what you are saying, and I respect that. It's just that I am always going to admire the creator than the re-animator.

(hope I said it right lol)
 
troubleman84 said:
No, I don't think he's saying that, lol. In fact I don't know how Michael got into this, lol. We ain't talking about nothing but sampling, lol. I doubt Michael would do that tho.
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i believe Michael sampled a classical work for Will You Be There.. and an army work for 2bad...if that's the definition...lol
 
troubleman84 said:
Yeah, that's what I was trying to tell WILLIAM a few minutes ago. :smilerolleyes: :lol: Just because the rapper uses them doesn't mean that they wanted it in there. Usually a producer would put an old song and sample it and make it a song he feels the rapper can rip. That's how it goes. :lol:

Tupac or any other rapper did NOT go out his/her way to find samples, producers did that. :yes: Then producers cut deals with the original songwriters whose work is sampled so they won't get no fuss. ^_^
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yeah...lol...like tupac just went and said..'do what u want'. i don't think so.
 
troubleman84 said:
OK, smarty, where is Tupac's name in the producer credits then? ;)
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lol..it's not like we have all the pieces to the puzzle. i don't know how great a businessman tupac was...but it's also not reasonalbe to assume that all rappers necessarily have a tin ear, either.:D
 
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