New Fan and Thoroughly Addicted to Everything About This Man!

[OhButItsRed]

OH, it's fine! This week has been eating me alive. I am currently traveling for work and staying in a hotel with my friend and though she (of course) knows about my love for Michael, she doesn't knooooooooooow about it. Just another reason it's so great to have you all!!

Yes, Moonwalker I have watched a bit of already, but planned to watch every moment of at some point. I HAVE to watch the American Dream one! Is it legitimately good? I don't know much about the various biopic attempts that have come out already and which ones fans like and don't like. Either way, I look forward to watching it! A Michael Jackson movie marathon is truly all I want my life to be lol.

It is INSANE that people just made up crazy stuff about him! It is legitimately nuts to imagine how it must feel to be on the receiving end of that. How does any person actually survive the constant scrutiny?? I do a podcast with weekly episodes and I've only received nice feedback on it, but I have a constant fear of people writing bad reviews....I am also a writer and anytime I publish something I live in fear of someone hating it...I also am a college prof and every time I get student evaluations, I worry someone will be mean. I have contemplated starting a YouTube channel several times (I'm actually interested in doing an MJ reaction channel because I'm so wildly enthusiastic about him). BUT, and this is my point in mentioning all of this, the fear of criticism and rejection is SO hard for me to deal with. I still push past it, of course, but that fear (and sometimes reality) is so hard. I imagine a lot of people feel that way.

...so then I think about someone like Michael and the massive amount of cruelty he constantly faced. The criticism and the judgement is bad enough. But not only did he receive that on an unparalleled level, but then he also had to deal with people completely fabricating stuff about him?! How does someone even keep sane with that? That would drive most people to the brink. What's really amazing too is that he was a person who was so, so sensitive and especially to other people's pain. Do you think he was sensitive to his own pain? Sometimes I wonder if he blocked so much pain in himself, that he poured all of the compassion and empathy he had into the world around him. The more I write this, I realize, MY GOD, they must have known it would take something REALLY BAD to break someone like Michael Jackson. He was the most resilient person imaginable.

Regarding the woke era comment.... I do think certain elements of his life would be significantly better. But something I do wonder about is how MJ would have handled social media. He was intentionally mysterious - no interviews, limited appearances, putting out an album every few years - would he have kept this same approach with social media and not really used it for promotion? OR would he have used social media to correct the narratives about him? I'm so curious.

Oh, I hope work is treating you well! and I understand that completely. Plenty of people know I love MJ, but they don't quite understand the extent, so it's definitely refreshing to have people that really get it. You're stuck with us now, girl!

And yes, The Jacksons: An American Dream is amazing! It's a 2 part mini-series that was inspired by Katherine Jackson's book My Family, The Jacksons, and follows the story of how the family got started, all the way up to the start of the Victory Tour. Searching For Neverland (not to be confused with that vile, trashy "documentary") is also quite good and is based on the book by Michael's bodyguards Remember the Time: Protecting Michael Jackson in His Final Days. There's also the Bad 25 and Michael Jackson's Journey from Motown to Off The Wall documentaries which were both made by the brilliant Spike Lee and feature lots of previously unseen footage of Michael at work!

Whatever you do, avoid the Man in the Mirror movie like the plague. it was truly terrible.

and yeah, I can understand that too. I'm also creative, except I do illustration and graphic design, and I'm also quite intimidated by certain kinds of criticism if it's not at all constructive, y'know? Like, if there's a way I can improve on something, I'll be happy to hear it and consider it, but if it's just downright mean for meanness' sake? It's very hard to go through yourself, let alone on a global scale.

I couldn't even begin to imagine going through the outright disrespect Michael had to. Again, that's part of why I admire and adore him so much. Despite everything going against him or how he may have truly felt, he still had all of this love and generosity to share with the world. He took it all and did it with a smile. I mean, he did always say he had rhinoceros skin lol. And oh yes, I think Michael was very acutely aware of his own pain, but he took that all that hurt and made all of these beautiful masterpieces with it.

As for Michael and social media., I don't think he'd have his own private account anywhere or anything, but he'd have his team use it for promotions and announcements. I don't think he'd really have a lot to say, otherwise. That being said, I do remember that Michael used to visit and read through all of the fan forums on the down-low back in the day lol. He wouldn't actually comment or make posts I believe, but I have heard that his favorite threads to read through were the Curly hair vs. Straight hair and Gold pants threads LMAO.

 

[OhButItsRed]

I'm super late to reply to this, but I definitely agree here. Remember how fairly recently people seemed to become more understanding of Britney Spears and realized how terrible everyone was to her back in the day? I could maybe see that kind of collective realization about Michael happening one of these days.

Yes! That's what I've been thinking too, I could see something along those lines happening for Michael.

 

[Hiker]

Movie marathon with fans would be so awesome! I bet we have the technology now to hold one, maybe have live chat / comments going on.

That being said, I do remember that Michael used to visit and read through all of the fan forums on the down-low back in the day lol. He wouldn't actually comment or make posts I believe, but I have heard that his favorite threads to read through were the Curly hair vs. Straight hair and Gold pants threads LMAO.

yes, it was somewhere written in this forum also that he used to lurk around here. I am sure he enjoyed reading Gold pants and related threads.

 

[OhButItsRed]

Movie marathon with fans would be so awesome! I bet we have the technology now to hold one, maybe have live chat / comments going on.


yes, it was somewhere written in this forum also that he used to lurk around here. I am sure he enjoyed reading Gold pants and related threads.

Oh yeah, there's a bunch of sites that can do that now. We'd have to set it up one of these days, for sure. I know I'd be down lol

Oh yeah, those were the good ol' days. I remember all the speculation and memes people would make about him reading through them lol. Though, I do wonder if he ever read the fanfic too

 

[staywild23]

I haven’t seen One Tree Hill in ages lol but oh yes content on Michael would be faberoo! It would be so fun if we made podcasts like that!

I originally was going to be an elementary education major, though I took courses but I changed it to Forensic Science! I know it’s such a competitive market I’m trying to go into their crime scene unit as a technician. But yes I agree, no matter what we always have impact on our peers, students, and professors.

LOL well the show is completely absurd, but it's very fun to podcast about. I would love to start a podcast about Michael, but it would just be me screaming, crying, and panting for an hour on the air, and no one needs to hear that lol.

That's very cool about Forensic Science! The thing is, a lot of fields are competitive. It's just a matter of pursuing not only what you love, but where you are willing to put in the work, and grow your own gifts. So if it's the right path for you, it will work out. I really believe that

 

[staywild23]

Oh, I hope work is treating you well! and I understand that completely. Plenty of people know I love MJ, but they don't quite understand the extent, so it's definitely refreshing to have people that really get it. You're stuck with us now, girl!

And yes, The Jacksons: An American Dream is amazing! It's a 2 part mini-series that was inspired by Katherine Jackson's book My Family, The Jacksons, and follows the story of how the family got started, all the way up to the start of the Victory Tour. Searching For Neverland (not to be confused with that vile, trashy "documentary") is also quite good and is based on the book by Michael's bodyguards Remember the Time: Protecting Michael Jackson in His Final Days. There's also the Bad 25 and Michael Jackson's Journey from Motown to Off The Wall documentaries which were both made by the brilliant Spike Lee and feature lots of previously unseen footage of Michael at work!

Whatever you do, avoid the Man in the Mirror movie like the plague. it was truly terrible.

and yeah, I can understand that too. I'm also creative, except I do illustration and graphic design, and I'm also quite intimidated by certain kinds of criticism if it's not at all constructive, y'know? Like, if there's a way I can improve on something, I'll be happy to hear it and consider it, but if it's just downright mean for meanness' sake? It's very hard to go through yourself, let alone on a global scale.

I couldn't even begin to imagine going through the outright disrespect Michael had to. Again, that's part of why I admire and adore him so much. Despite everything going against him or how he may have truly felt, he still had all of this love and generosity to share with the world. He took it all and did it with a smile. I mean, he did always say he had rhinoceros skin lol. And oh yes, I think Michael was very acutely aware of his own pain, but he took that all that hurt and made all of these beautiful masterpieces with it.

As for Michael and social media., I don't think he'd have his own private account anywhere or anything, but he'd have his team use it for promotions and announcements. I don't think he'd really have a lot to say, otherwise. That being said, I do remember that Michael used to visit and read through all of the fan forums on the down-low back in the day lol. He wouldn't actually comment or make posts I believe, but I have heard that his favorite threads to read through were the Curly hair vs. Straight hair and Gold pants threads LMAO.

Lol yeah you all are the only people I am completely transparent about regarding the degree of my love for him. This is a different question, but does anyone else find it hard to not bring him up in conversation? I find I'm constantly thinking about ways I can include him in the things I talk about in life haha.

I feel like I coerced my students into talking about him once because we were doing a lesson on pop culture and dissecting the differences between fads, trends, and icons and when I asked about who they consider an icon in the world, every single class someone said "Michael Jackson is an icon!" and little did they know, I designed the entire lesson hoping someone would talk about him lol. I'm only slightly exaggerating haha.

Ok -- with your approval, I will for sure watch Jacksons: The American Dream. I have to admit, I recently watched the "Man in the Mirror" movie, sort of by accident. It was in the first week or two of my obsession. And honestly it was horrifying and it made me really angry how he was portrayed. I don't know much about that movie or when it came out. But I feel like I saw it before. It felt extremely familiar to me and I'm not sure why. Anyway, it was hot garbage. I recently watched both of those Spike Lee documentaries and both were AMAZING. I have every intention of watching them multiple times lol.

I totally agree! one of the things I admire most about Michael was his true gentleness and patience. This is why I get annoyed when people say he was like a child. While I have no doubt he had the spirit of a child and an openness to the world that was childlike, I feel like people say that as a way of talking about him being weird and lacking social grace, or something. And that really pisses me off because no one who wasn't an old, wise, highly evolved soul could handle what he went through with such patience and grace. He was truly one of a kind.

I totally agree with you about how he'd probably use social media too. Purely marketing, but nothing personal. I am kind of glad he didn't ever have to deal with it too much. For the most part, I think social media has made the world worse, so I'm glad he was never super exposed to it.

I LOVE imagining him looking at the threads...God it makes me so happy lol

 

[staywild23]

Oh yeah, there's a bunch of sites that can do that now. We'd have to set it up one of these days, for sure. I know I'd be down lol

Oh yeah, those were the good ol' days. I remember all the speculation and memes people would make about him reading through them lol. Though, I do wonder if he ever read the fanfic too

Ok so @MacMandy90 @Hiker and @OhButItsRed --- we should very seriously talk about some kind of a meet up for watching either a movie or a concert. I have never done that with anyone, but that would be so much fun. Would it just involve watching and chatting our commentary? Because that would be so fucking delightful to me. I am very serious about this...FYI haha

And ooooommmmggggg I have no doubt that if he actually read the threads he loved the Gold Pants one (and hopefully the 18+one!) and the ones about his curly hair! Because for real, who wouldn't want to read the unfiltered thoughts of how sexy other people think you are? lol It makes me really happy to imagine that because I'm sure that made him feel good about himself and gave him a little thrill. Honestly, I just want to picture him being happy. If nothing else he may have liked them because they are the only threads that are probably 100% positive and not critical of him. I mean, seriously, I can't imagine any of us saying anything but adoring, kind words about him. It would be like a safe space for him to explore fan reactions to him. A safe, sexy space lol.

 

[OhButItsRed]

Lol yeah you all are the only people I am completely transparent about regarding the degree of my love for him. This is a different question, but does anyone else find it hard to not bring him up in conversation? I find I'm constantly thinking about ways I can include him in the things I talk about in life haha.

I feel like I coerced my students into talking about him once because we were doing a lesson on pop culture and dissecting the differences between fads, trends, and icons and when I asked about who they consider an icon in the world, every single class someone said "Michael Jackson is an icon!" and little did they know, I designed the entire lesson hoping someone would talk about him lol. I'm only slightly exaggerating haha.

Ok -- with your approval, I will for sure watch Jacksons: The American Dream. I have to admit, I recently watched the "Man in the Mirror" movie, sort of by accident. It was in the first week or two of my obsession. And honestly it was horrifying and it made me really angry how he was portrayed. I don't know much about that movie or when it came out. But I feel like I saw it before. It felt extremely familiar to me and I'm not sure why. Anyway, it was hot garbage. I recently watched both of those Spike Lee documentaries and both were AMAZING. I have every intention of watching them multiple times lol.

I totally agree! one of the things I admire most about Michael was his true gentleness and patience. This is why I get annoyed when people say he was like a child. While I have no doubt he had the spirit of a child and an openness to the world that was childlike, I feel like people say that as a way of talking about him being weird and lacking social grace, or something. And that really pisses me off because no one who wasn't an old, wise, highly evolved soul could handle what he went through with such patience and grace. He was truly one of a kind.

I totally agree with you about how he'd probably use social media too. Purely marketing, but nothing personal. I am kind of glad he didn't ever have to deal with it too much. For the most part, I think social media has made the world worse, so I'm glad he was never super exposed to it.

I LOVE imagining him looking at the threads...God it makes me so happy lol

Funny you mention that! I'm in a groupchat with some friends at the moment talking about Paris actually, and I'm finding it hard not to derail the conversation and make it about her dad instead lol.

And LMAO that's amazing though! Sounds like those students passed with an A++ to me

Ahhhh yeah, Man in the Mirror was just so bad. And you can tell that they went ahead and made it without his approval. The guy who played him was supposed to be a fan too, so you think he'd know better, but alas. But yes, the Spike Lee documentaries are amazing, you can tell that he put a whole lotta love and attention to detail into them. They are definitely a must watch for every MJ fan to see.

And I agree! Everytime someone who isn't a fan or wasn't all that close to him says that he was childlike, it just feels insincere and like they're trying to say he was too socially awkward to function or whatever.

Ok so @MacMandy90 @Hiker and @OhButItsRed --- we should very seriously talk about some kind of a meet up for watching either a movie or a concert. I have never done that with anyone, but that would be so much fun. Would it just involve watching and chatting our commentary? Because that would be so fucking delightful to me. I am very serious about this...FYI haha

And ooooommmmggggg I have no doubt that if he actually read the threads he loved the Gold Pants one (and hopefully the 18+one!) and the ones about his curly hair! Because for real, who wouldn't want to read the unfiltered thoughts of how sexy other people think you are? lol It makes me really happy to imagine that because I'm sure that made him feel good about himself and gave him a little thrill. Honestly, I just want to picture him being happy. If nothing else he may have liked them because they are the only threads that are probably 100% positive and not critical of him. I mean, seriously, I can't imagine any of us saying anything but adoring, kind words about him. It would be like a safe space for him to explore fan reactions to him. A safe, sexy space lol.

Ohhh I'd love to! I know there are some platforms that allow for text and audio chatting while watching, though I'm much to shy to use the audio feature lol. I'd definitely be active in the text chat. I've been in some before, but I'll have to ask one of my friends what website we used last time for it.

And yes! It makes me so happy to think about him reading through the forums too lol. I believe that in This Is It, he wears a shirt that says "curls for my girls" in reference to the curly hair threads that wanted him to go back to the curls

 

[Hiker]

he wears a shirt that says "curls for my girls"

Do you know the story? That shirt was gifted to him by one of the fans from this forum. And he wore it on his last day. It's an incredible story. Search for curls for my girls in the forum.

 

[OhButItsRed]

Do you know the story? That shirt was gifted to him by one of the fans from this forum. And he wore it on his last day. It's an incredible story. Search for curls for my girls in the forum.

Really? Awww thats so sweet. I hadn't actually known that part, I just knew it was in reference to the thread. Definitely gonna search for it now

 

[MacMandy90]

LOL well the show is completely absurd, but it's very fun to podcast about. I would love to start a podcast about Michael, but it would just be me screaming, crying, and panting for an hour on the air, and no one needs to hear that lol.

That's very cool about Forensic Science! The thing is, a lot of fields are competitive. It's just a matter of pursuing not only what you love, but where you are willing to put in the work, and grow your own gifts. So if it's the right path for you, it will work out. I really believe that

Lol I'd probably whip out the megaphone at that point

Awe thanks doll it means a lot I absolutely believe in that too, it's like a calling and it brings out the best.

Do you know the story? That shirt was gifted to him by one of the fans from this forum. And he wore it on his last day. It's an incredible story. Search for curls for my girls in the forum.

I'mma go look for that lol I saw that shirt and I was giggling because it was so cute lol

 

[staywild23]

@OhButItsRed Soooo I got home from my work conference late last night and today woke up sick with a cold. So I took this as an opportunity to stay in bed and watch ALL of Jacksons: American Dream in one sitting. I have so many thoughts!!

First, I really loved it. It was a lot better than I expected. I thought the story was told really well, for the most part. I really loved getting some insight into Michael's sensitivity as a child. That is one of the many ways I relate to him that make me love him. Specifically, the little mouse that he befriended in the house...that whole thing made me cry. Also just his general sensitivity about having to perform and travel, etc. Even though I read his book and obviously know a lot about him, seeing it put on the screen like that REALLY made it clear just how traumatizing his childhood was in a whole host of ways. It broke my heart.

My least favorite element of it was the post-Off the Wall stuff. Though the actor they cast was fine, I guess, the stuff about Michael's solo career felt so rushed compared to the rest of the movie and I hated that. That's also the only thing I didn't like about his memoir - all the stuff about his solo career (in the case of Moonwalk, post-Thriller career) felt SO rushed. This makes me really wonder what time frame they are going to focus on for his biopic.

Anyway, I'm really glad I watched it. I'm so excited to see more of these kinds of movies. But what I want more than anything is a REALLY solid depiction of his adult life and career. I feel so bad for Michael that he is still so misunderstood and thought of as strange by so many people. I just want to cry when I think about that. I love him so much lol.

 

[OhButItsRed]

@OhButItsRed Soooo I got home from my work conference late last night and today woke up sick with a cold. So I took this as an opportunity to stay in bed and watch ALL of Jacksons: American Dream in one sitting. I have so many thoughts!!

First, I really loved it. It was a lot better than I expected. I thought the story was told really well, for the most part. I really loved getting some insight into Michael's sensitivity as a child. That is one of the many ways I relate to him that make me love him. Specifically, the little mouse that he befriended in the house...that whole thing made me cry. Also just his general sensitivity about having to perform and travel, etc. Even though I read his book and obviously know a lot about him, seeing it put on the screen like that REALLY made it clear just how traumatizing his childhood was in a whole host of ways. It broke my heart.

My least favorite element of it was the post-Off the Wall stuff. Though the actor they cast was fine, I guess, the stuff about Michael's solo career felt so rushed compared to the rest of the movie and I hated that. That's also the only thing I didn't like about his memoir - all the stuff about his solo career (in the case of Moonwalk, post-Thriller career) felt SO rushed. This makes me really wonder what time frame they are going to focus on for his biopic.

Anyway, I'm really glad I watched it. I'm so excited to see more of these kinds of movies. But what I want more than anything is a REALLY solid depiction of his adult life and career. I feel so bad for Michael that he is still so misunderstood and thought of as strange by so many people. I just want to cry when I think about that. I love him so much lol.

Oh, that's excellent to hear! Not the cold of course (hope you feel better soon btw!), but that you got to have some time to yourself and enjoyed the movie!

Yes, I agree, I really appreciate the attention to detail that they put into Michael's childhood in the first half of the movie. I think physically seeing it on screen gives us a better understanding of the kind of things Michael went through as a child. He was so young, so talented, but unfortunately had to be put through the wringer. Of course, the Jackson family did work with them a lot to make sure everything was accurate. I think Michael was the one to pick out the actors that would play him, too.

That being said, I also dislike how Michael's early adulthood was handled in the film. As you said, it was much too rushed. Like, the whole thing with the Victory tour, they barely touched on how awful it actually was to deal with. Everybody was angry at each other, and it definitely didn't end the way the movie said it did lol. It felt more like they were rushing ahead and did a highlight reel to just close out the movie.

I just really hope that the new biopic will go into more detail about Michael's life from Thriller onward and that it doesn't turn into a trainwreck ( as a certain other biopic did ). I hear the Director is supportive of Michael and believes in his innocence, which is a relief and gives me a little bit of hope that it'll be okay. I hope that it translates into a fair and accurate depiction on screen. It's also nerve-wracking though because you never know if they're gonna flip the script and make him seem like a monster. I just wish people would leave Michael alone in that respect, he didn't deserve that.

 

[staywild23]

Oh, that's excellent to hear! Not the cold of course (hope you feel better soon btw!), but that you got to have some time to yourself and enjoyed the movie!

Yes, I agree, I really appreciate the attention to detail that they put into Michael's childhood in the first half of the movie. I think physically seeing it on screen gives us a better understanding of the kind of things Michael went through as a child. He was so young, so talented, but unfortunately had to be put through the wringer. Of course, the Jackson family did work with them a lot to make sure everything was accurate. I think Michael was the one to pick out the actors that would play him, too.

That being said, I also dislike how Michael's early adulthood was handled in the film. As you said, it was much too rushed. Like, the whole thing with the Victory tour, they barely touched on how awful it actually was to deal with. Everybody was angry at each other, and it definitely didn't end the way the movie said it did lol. It felt more like they were rushing ahead and did a highlight reel to just close out the movie.

I just really hope that the new biopic will go into more detail about Michael's life from Thriller onward and that it doesn't turn into a trainwreck ( as a certain other biopic did ). I hear the Director is supportive of Michael and believes in his innocence, which is a relief and gives me a little bit of hope that it'll be okay. I hope that it translates into a fair and accurate depiction on screen. It's also nerve-wracking though because you never know if they're gonna flip the script and make him seem like a monster. I just wish people would leave Michael alone in that respect, he didn't deserve that.

YES! Physically seeing it on the screen really does a lot to remind us of 1) just how young he truly was, 2) how much individual pressure was on him (though, of course, all of his siblings lost their childhood at least in part, so much of the focus was on him), and 3) how sensitive and unique he was and how that sensitivity which made him so beautiful, as a person, also made his life so challenging. I really appreciated getting to spend that time with him as a kid...it really helps me understand him as an adult more.

I'm glad you agree with my perspective on the adulthood in the film. I get that it wasn't a Michael film, but a Jackson family film, but still. I actually think the fact that the family was involved, while a great thing, also means there was a vested interest in...sanitizing(?) the reality of how things happened. Like you said, the Victory tour wasn't the best experience and the movie kind of makes it seem like, quite literally, the ultimate victory.

I have a lot of hope for the biopic. I'm not sure which biopic you are referring to that was a trainwreck (not sure if you mean Man in the Mirror, or another one about a different artist). I really love biopics, as a general rule. They are an amazing way to generate new fans and give a more human perspective on complicated people. For example, Walk the Line turned me into a big Johnny Cash fan for awhile and exposed me to a lot of music I didn't otherwise know. Even though he wasn't always portrayed in a flattering light, it was definitely overall a portrait of him that made me really care about him as an artist and person. I'm really hoping that's the direction this biopic goes in.

I really don't think it will hurt him because not only is the director a fan and supportive (I didn't know that until I read your comment, actually!) but the estate is also involved. They have great producers and writers on board. So I am *choosing* to be hopeful about it. I really have high hopes that it can restore some of his image! Time since LN has already made a big impact in that regard, but I just need it to happen...

 

[Hiker]

I really don't think it will hurt him because not only is the director a fan and supportive (I didn't know that until I read your comment, actually!) but the estate is also involved. They have great producers and writers on board. So I am *choosing* to be hopeful about it. I really have high hopes that it can restore some of his image! Time since LN has already made a big impact in that regard, but I just need it to happen...

I am keeping fingers crossed that it turns out good and most importantly factual. Though like @OhButItsRed I am so scared. Don't think I would have the courage to watch it without seeing reviews first.

 

[staywild23]

I am keeping fingers crossed that it turns out good and most importantly factual. Though like @OhButItsRed I am so scared. Don't think I would have the courage to watch it without seeing reviews first.

I completely understand. I am also very concerned, honestly. But I also do feel that Michael is so good, not just in terms of talent but as a human and I just have to believe there is some kind of justice in the world. I can't stand the thought of it not helping him. And this new generation is so much more open to him and open-minded in general, that I really think if he can just get into the hearts of more people, especially young people, who will try to understand him, so much good can come from it...

I am idealistic to a fault, some say, so maybe I'm being naive lol.

 

[OhButItsRed]

I have a lot of hope for the biopic. I'm not sure which biopic you are referring to that was a trainwreck (not sure if you mean Man in the Mirror, or another one about a different artist). I really love biopics, as a general rule. They are an amazing way to generate new fans and give a more human perspective on complicated people. For example, Walk the Line turned me into a big Johnny Cash fan for awhile and exposed me to a lot of music I didn't otherwise know. Even though he wasn't always portrayed in a flattering light, it was definitely overall a portrait of him that made me really care about him as an artist and person. I'm really hoping that's the direction this biopic goes in.

I really don't think it will hurt him because not only is the director a fan and supportive (I didn't know that until I read your comment, actually!) but the estate is also involved. They have great producers and writers on board. So I am *choosing* to be hopeful about it. I really have high hopes that it can restore some of his image! Time since LN has already made a big impact in that regard, but I just need it to happen...

Ah yes, I should have clarified, I meant the Man in the Mirror movie when I was referring to the trainwreck lol. But yeah, I also usually love biopics too. Bohemian Rhapsody (which, funny enough, I think it's gonna be the same people doing Michael's movie too) and Rocket Man were really solid films, I believe, but I also know that they definitely sacrificed some accuracy to really play up the drama. And I agree, I hope the new biopic follows Walk the line in that sense too.

True, the estate being involved is also a huge relief. I just really, really want it to be successful in a positive way, I don't think I could take another Man in the Mirror lol.

 

[staywild23]

Ah yes, I should have clarified, I meant the Man in the Mirror movie when I was referring to the trainwreck lol. But yeah, I also usually love biopics too. Bohemian Rhapsody (which, funny enough, I think it's gonna be the same people doing Michael's movie too) and Rocket Man were really solid films, I believe, but I also know that they definitely sacrificed some accuracy to really play up the drama. And I agree, I hope the new biopic follows Walk the line in that sense too.

True, the estate being involved is also a huge relief. I just really, really want it to be successful in a positive way, I don't think I could take another Man in the Mirror lol.

I think what I struggle with the most for the biopic is trying to imagine who in the hell is going to play him?! I've actually had the thought that the biopic might be more interesting if it went in the direction of the Bob Dylan biopic. As a huge Bob Dylan fan, I happen to know it took decades of attempted biopics before he'd approve any of them. And the one he did, eventually, approve ended up being "I'm Not There" which has I think 6 different actors playing fictionalized versions of Bob Dylan representing the many, vastly different personas he had throughout his career. Of those 6 it includes some white men, of course, but also a woman and a young black child. It was very strange and definitely more of an "art house" style approach to telling his life, but it worked because it represented his life as a work of art and didn't attempt to nail down the reality of him, but rather represent his multi-faceted nature through a very creative narrative. It also took away the pressure for any of the actors to "accurately" represent him, but rather they could just interpret him.

I am not sure Michael's fan base would be happy with this kind of move. I'm not sure how much crossover there is between Bob Dylan and Michael Jackson fans haha. But I just think it could be interested. I am going to be furious if anyone other than a gorgeous, sexy, charismatic, endearing, beautiful, insanely talented, overwhelmingly intoxicating person plays him. Because Michael's appearance changed so much and was rather unique, I'm concerned that anyone who plays him will feel almost like a parody. The only way to solve this would be to focus on one particular time period of his life and tell a particular story. I just don't know what would be the best approach.

 

[staywild23]

Another situation where I'm not sure where to post these thoughts, BUT last night something really embarrassing happened...

I had a dream, nay, a fantasy come-to-life in my highly vivid subconscious that I was Michael's girlfriend during the Thriller days.

Yes, I as a 33 year old married woman had this dream. Now, obviously this is the actual dream all of us have for the imagined alternate realities of our lives had we been born in a different time or place. But you all, this dream....it was so amazing lol. I was having it right before I woke up, so I kept snoozing my alarm so I could return to it. I don't remember the details except that it was all about me emotionally supporting him during his explosive fame LOL. Because, yes, beyond all the graphic, perverse things I fantasize about, apparently being an emotional support system to him is REALLY the dream haha.

Anyway, by the time I woke up I was sort of embarrassed about this whole thing. It reminded me of how, when I was in high school and completely unaware of how amazing Michael is, I had a very close friend who was actively obsessed with him and talked about him constantly. We were having a sleepover and she was having a dream about him and was talking in her sleep about him - searching for him, asking where he was, declaring her love lol, and I was interacting with her. It was wild and hilarious. I always remember her face, totally disoriented, as she said "Is Michael ok?" and I was like, "Yes, he told me to tell you he was" and she was so happy lol. Now I live in fear that I'm going to start talking about him in my sleep and my husband will be like...uh....do I have something to worry about? lol

Anyway, I just wanted to share this because where else am I going to??? I am an insane woman and I don't know what to do about it! haha

 

[filmandmusic]

@staywild23 since you are a bob Dylan fan, do you happen to know if Bob and Michael had respect for each other as artists? I always find it weird that no stories of their interactions emerges from the "we are the world" session. Apparently Bob had a concert the day or day after Michael passed away and he didn't address this during the concert which even many Dylan fans found a bit weird.

 

[staywild23]

@staywild23 since you are a bob Dylan fan, do you happen to know if Bob and Michael had respect for each other as artists? I always find it weird that no stories of their interactions emerges from the "we are the world" session. Apparently Bob had a concert the day or day after Michael passed away and he didn't address this during the concert which even many Dylan fans found a bit weird.

You know, to be honest I don't know the answer to this question. I have tried to find it since becoming an MJ fan and haven't come up with much. However, knowing Bob as I do (lol) my guess would be that he had a ton of respect for MJ. Bob was actually heavily inspired by folks like Little Richard and James Brown, before he got into Woody Guthrie and folk music (all of this was before Bob was famous, of course). He had a lot of admiration for great performers and great singers. I am not really surprised no stories from "we are the world" involve them interacting because Bob is notoriously out-of-touch with other celebrities and also had some self-consciousness about his voice changing in the 80s, which may have made him more focused on his own performance than connecting with others there. I read his memoir several years ago and I know he talks about that time frame and where he was at mentally, but I can't recall if he discusses we are the world. I have to revisit this and find out!

And tbh, I am not at all surprised Bob didn't address Michael's passing in a concert. While I have only seen Bob in concert four times, two of those times were in 2009 and so I know what he was like during that tour. He didn't interact with the audience AT ALL. Literally, nothing. I was shocked. The only thing he did was introduce his band during the last song. I've heard in recent concerts he is interacting, but I also understand that to be fairly uncommon for him. He's not a very outwardly emotional person, with most of his thoughts and feelings going into music and performance. So it's possible he may have honored him in some other way that no one recognized. But it's also possible he didn't acknowledge it at all. But I truly can't imagine Bob not having tremendous respect for MJ.

I'm mostly curious, at this point, of what MJ thought of Bob! I am sure he respected him as a songwriter, especially his earlier protest music. But I imagine he probably wasn't a fan of Bob's voice. Though I'm a huge fan of it, I think MJ had such a spectacular technical (and emotive) skill that I can see him holding other artists to that standard.

 

[filmandmusic]

@staywild23

Now that I think of it I think Bob Dylan was at a bad tour concert in Switzerland 1988. I don't know which venue or what date. I tried to find something about it online but no luck yet.

I'm very interested in this because I hold Bob Dylan is high esteem myself. During my 20's I listened to his music extensively. The last few years I kind of forgot about him. My fave albums are Desire, blood on the tracks, freewheeling and the times they are a changing.
If there is one thing I wish MJ copied from Dylan was his touring. Always a diverse setlist with different arrangements, it makes every concert unique.

 

[Hiker]

I had a dream, nay, a fantasy come-to-life in my highly vivid subconscious that I was Michael's girlfriend during the Thriller days.

Oh the lucky you! I am still searching for Michael in my dreams, literally. I have had a similar dream twice. In the first one I was in some place where lot of concerts were happening, all that I know about in real life in some way. So I am going from concert to concert and enjoying each of them, but at the end I am thinking this is not what I want .... and then on to other concert. It was not a sad dream, I was happy, I was enjoying but I was still searching for the "best" one or something. And I had this image of Michael's concert in my mind while going to a concert (guess which one ! ) and I am telling people around me that this is not what I had in mind, lets go to another one.

The second one was couple of days back. This time I am on stage, its kind of a school day performance, and there are lot of other performers, some famous people and some of my school friends. Its also not sad, I am happy to be on stage, dancing, talking to everyone, asking about "him". I see flashes of a person in gold but can't really reach "him". Its either Michael I am searching for or my imaginary boyfriend

I did have one scarily dreamy dream on a day I slept thinking about being lonely, and in the dream I could hear "You are not alone" very vividly, so much so that I got up and walked around the house to see if any of the devices is actually playing that song. Its obvious that it was my mind telling me not to worry about feeling alone, but I choose to believe that it was Michael telling me that

We are like couple of crazy people here!!

 

[staywild23]

@staywild23

Now that I think of it I think Bob Dylan was at a bad tour concert in Switzerland 1988. I don't know which venue or what date. I tried to find something about it online but no luck yet.

I'm very interested in this because I hold Bob Dylan is high esteem myself. During my 20's I listened to his music extensively. The last few years I kind of forgot about him. My fave albums are Desire, blood on the tracks, freewheeling and the times they are a changing.
If there is one thing I wish MJ copied from Dylan was his touring. Always a diverse setlist with different arrangements, it makes every concert unique.

Oh yeah, I actually think I heard this too about Bob going to one of the Bad concerts. I am not sure where I read or saw that though. I do want to reread his memoir now though, just on the off chance he mentions Michael haha.

That's awesome that you were into Bob!! Until my Michael discover of 2022, Bob Dylan was my one and only lol. I love all kinds of music and musicians, but he's the only one that ever touched me in a significant way. Now all that has changed and I'm better for it.

Personally, what I wish Michael/the estate would take from Bob is the concept of the Bootleg Series. Bob's bootleg releases are some of his best. The alternative versions of different songs, demos, unreleased tracks, live albums...sometimes the quality isn't even great because this stuff is decades old, but true fans of Bob know that these bootlegs are gems. I'm dying for some similar releases from Michael. It blows my mind that there have been so few live releases when, at least in the 80s, he sang live al the time. I would love a live album. I would also love to hear the *original* demos, the recordings Michael made on his tape recorder, and in-studio conversations, etc. I know they are different kinds of artists and without knowing if Michael would be ok with releasing unfinished stuff, it's maybe not right. But God, I would love it. And I feel like Michael fans would go crazy for it.

Anyway, all the albums you listed are among my favorites too! It's legitimately impossible for me to pick a favorite, but Blood on the Tracks is easily top 3. I also love Blonde on Blonde, Bringing it All Back Home, Times, Desire, and so many others. Truly I could never pick

 

[staywild23]

The second one was couple of days back. This time I am on stage, its kind of a school day performance, and there are lot of other performers, some famous people and some of my school friends. Its also not sad, I am happy to be on stage, dancing, talking to everyone, asking about "him". I see flashes of a person in gold but can't really reach "him". Its either Michael I am searching for or my imaginary boyfriend

I did have one scarily dreamy dream on a day I slept thinking about being lonely, and in the dream I could hear "You are not alone" very vividly, so much so that I got up and walked around the house to see if any of the devices is actually playing that song. Its obvious that it was my mind telling me not to worry about feeling alone, but I choose to believe that it was Michael telling me that

We are like couple of crazy people here!!

LMAO I love that you were seeing "flashes of a person in gold" hahaha...oh this is all so relatable. Also, that you heard the song so vividly you thought it was playing in your house. That's so hilarious. Especially given the song itself -- You are NOT alone! haha

Honestly, I'm just happy I'm not the only one dreaming about Michael. I think about him wayyyy more than I should. Way more than is probably normal. But hey, he brings me significant joy, so what's the harm in it?!

 

[filmandmusic]

Oh yeah, I actually think I heard this too about Bob going to one of the Bad concerts. I am not sure where I read or saw that though. I do want to reread his memoir now though, just on the off chance he mentions Michael haha.

That's awesome that you were into Bob!! Until my Michael discover of 2022, Bob Dylan was my one and only lol. I love all kinds of music and musicians, but he's the only one that ever touched me in a significant way. Now all that has changed and I'm better for it.

Personally, what I wish Michael/the estate would take from Bob is the concept of the Bootleg Series. Bob's bootleg releases are some of his best. The alternative versions of different songs, demos, unreleased tracks, live albums...sometimes the quality isn't even great because this stuff is decades old, but true fans of Bob know that these bootlegs are gems. I'm dying for some similar releases from Michael. It blows my mind that there have been so few live releases when, at least in the 80s, he sang live al the time. I would love a live album. I would also love to hear the *original* demos, the recordings Michael made on his tape recorder, and in-studio conversations, etc. I know they are different kinds of artists and without knowing if Michael would be ok with releasing unfinished stuff, it's maybe not right. But God, I would love it. And I feel like Michael fans would go crazy for it.

Anyway, all the albums you listed are among my favorites too! It's legitimately impossible for me to pick a favorite, but Blood on the Tracks is easily top 3. I also love Blonde on Blonde, Bringing it All Back Home, Times, Desire, and so many others. Truly I could never pick

For me it was the other way around, there was only Michael until someone talked me into the beatles and bob dylan during my 20s. From there onwards I went on a musical journey in all directions from folk to metal to jazz
But since MJ died the MJ bug completely consumed me again and most other music has gone to the background again.
In the end the first love will always remain the strongest

Some of my fave Dylan tracks are cold irons bound, desolation row and bob dylan’s dream. Agree completely on the bootleg series though I nodded off after bootleg 8. I just checked and he is at nr 16 now lol. Must be awesome for die hard fans!

 

[Hiker]

What is wrong with me! I just watched Mexico deposition again! With 30-min of Michael saying "I wrote that one, never released", and me shouting at some of the song - oh! it got released! I head it! I have so many mixed feelings about it. It was horrible what he had to go through, but I think it is also one of the best "interviews" where Michael talks about his creative process. His voice is so soothing, so much patience even when going through such a painful process.

 

[staywild23]

What is wrong with me! I just watched Mexico deposition again! With 30-min of Michael saying "I wrote that one, never released", and me shouting at some of the song - oh! it got released! I head it! I have so many mixed feelings about it. It was horrible what he had to go through, but I think it is also one of the best "interviews" where Michael talks about his creative process. His voice is so soothing, so much patience even when going through such a painful process.

Oh I completely understand… I have watched it SO many times and now you make me want to again! I absolutely love it, but of course agree in that its terrible that he has to go through something so awful. But inlooove the insight into his creative process. And also getting to observe his personality in all these different situations. What strikes me the most is how consistently wonderful and sweet he is as a person. He is so gracious, humble, kind, polite. He was the most famous person in the world, most successful artist of all time, a legend by all counts, and a celebrity his entire life at this point, and he is still completely respectful and patient through all the bullshit. And really it is such an offensive thing he’s being accused of, especially as such an authentically creative person. But he’s just so wonderful…

And his voice! Before I was a fan I never thought much about his speaking voice. But I am in loooove with it. He is so soft and gentle. His voice soothes me so much. In fact, everything about him makes me feel safe, which is one of the many reasons I adore him.

Sorry this just turned into an “I love Michael” rant. I am happy to talk about the deposition more though!

 

[zinniabooklover]

I'm posting this over here for safety. Feeling very nosy plus waiting for kettle to boil. Decided to hop over to Manhood thread to see what you all get up to over there. First thing I see is a photo posted by MacMandy90 at 10.18pm. Clearly from the Black Panther dance but not an image that I remember from the short film.

Um, it's kinda red-hot, girls. As in RED hot!

I'm going to step away carefully and leave you all to it.

As you were

 

[Hiker]

I'm going to step away carefully and leave you all to it.

Now why would you do that! Just Give Into It and contribute your thoughts to that thread @MacMandy90 definitely set that thread on fire yesterday!

This man makes me want to learn how music is made, how videos are put together shot by shot. After hearing him talk about bass and beat and what not in the Dangerous deposition, I want to become a music engineer! Or a video producer. This is 20 years too late! But what an inspiration!!