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Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

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Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

ivy said:
True around 10 songs/loops etc by Bryan Loren and Michael is registered after Michael's death as well.

Would people also think that Bryan Loren cooked them up in his basement with JM?
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I would ONLY if they sounded suspicious, other than that, that alone (registering after Michael passed) is not alarming on its own.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Arklove said:
THIS. We get overprocessed crap as opposed to Mike's raw, unattainable, incredible musical genius...

Thanks for nothin'....:(
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I'm sorry but they do not sound overprocessed at all!!! It is just an excuse to fool us. See also post 271

(all imo)
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

barok232 said:
I'm sorry but they do not sound overprocessed at all!!! It is just an excuse to fool us. See also post 271

(all imo)
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Your opinion is NOT important....:lol:
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Arklove said:
THIS. We get overprocessed crap as opposed to Mike's raw, unattainable, incredible musical genius...

Thanks for nothin'....:(
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don't forget that this album is done for the masses and not solely for the fans.

Sure you and me would buy an album that consists of raw unfinished demos of Michael but people that aren't MJ fans wouldn't.

again as I said unfortunately we aren't living in a perfect world. In the end of the day it's a personal decision whether to buy or not.
 
Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

GThomson93 said:
I really don't get how the people who doubt these vocals can't detect MJ's voice. It's pretty damn obvious it's him.
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What is there not to get about it? For real!!!!

I listen to the album and i hear Michael on all the well known tracks, but as soon as i hear Monster, and the other two tracks, i hear a strikingly different voice. We get bullshitty excuses that the reason he sounds different is because the damn song was recorderded in a basement studio...aaaah right, so THATS the reason, LMFAO!!!! On the cd damn album we hear 'I like the way you love me' where in the beginning parts, Michael is heard singing through the phone, yet the voice doesn't sound different at all.

Best of Joy....another song and apparently very recent too, how come it doesn't sound different at all?

Do tell me that...with all due respect, but you can't.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Also for the people in here who keep saying they don't understand how people can't believe in these horrible fake-ass laughable tracks....several giveaways in the song like when the 'singer' goes 'toooooo bad' for example, that's such a dead giveaway, It's incredible how ya'll ain't noticing that, but whatever.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Let's try to remain calm. No personal attacks on other members. We are all here for the same reason :)
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

ivy said:
don't forget that this album is done for the masses and not solely for the fans.

Sure you and me would buy an album that consists of raw unfinished demos of Michael but people that aren't MJ fans wouldn't.

again as I said unfortunately we aren't living in a perfect world. In the end of the day it's a personal decision whether to buy or not.
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I understand that in order to have a successful album, the album has to appeal to the general audience, not just the hardcore fans. Why is Michael Jackson the most beloved ever? It's becasue he can sell to the masses.

I don't live in an ivory tower. I know we don't live in a perfect world. However, do I think the vocals have to be autotuned, processed, robotized to sell? I don't think so. Good music is good music. Good music is wonder to ears. See the reaction to Breaking News. It's mostly negative from the masses. The general audience doesn't seem to like it neither.

It's not like Breaking News and Moster are the only songs in the vault. There are many outtakes the Estate can pick for this album. It's not like the Estate can either release the Cascios tracks or an album with only demos. It's not a mutually exclusive situation.

Sony's and the Estate's intention is just too business oriented and profit driven.
 
Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

MJJuniorSinceMW said:
That's your knockout argument? Oh god, everytime i read this s****d outburst of you.
I literally crack up.

And read it quite often from you...

Laughable!
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How is it laughable? It sounds like a great point to me. Just b\c someone says it's so (Sony in this case) doesn't make it so. Just like when the U.S. government claimed there were weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq. Didn't make it a fact. Nothing is a fact until proven. It's simply Sony's assertion that it's MJ, just like it's the doubters assertion that it isn't.

The definition of the word fact: something that actually exists; reality; truth.
The definition of the word assertion: a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason.

Until Sony shows proof that it's MJ it's not a fact and anyone who claims it is is overextending the definition of the word, IMO.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Ok Smooth, as you probably remember during the whole period prior to MJ's album release I had been sarcastic. But I never said that I didn't believe you or that I did believe you, I just took some distances.

Lately I have just reiterated what you posted when BN was streamed, without questioning whether it was true or not what you were reporting or saying.

Now, what bothers me and probably many fans, is not the fact that you said that it was your source opinion. What bothers me is that you confirmed that it came straight from SONY and that they DID hire.

Furthermore you continued saying that your source told you that there was a big meeting that was going to be held not knowing if the album was going to be removed or not from the market.

This really does not sound as a simple opinion statement, does it?

And what is more, after the supposed meeting at SONY, you posted that all what you had reported was actually an opinion. I just don't understand why did you opt to use all the confirmation wording when expressing a simple opinion.

My question is, what was said during the meeting?
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Why is my question being still unanswered?


ANSWER: Sony did have a meeting regarding the reaction from the hardcore fanbase. They had a teleconference with the estate as to what they wanted to do. The end result was to keep on with the regular plan, as they did not believe the vocals were an imposter. They had faith in Cascio's story. That was that, there was nothing huge to report back here.

- Smooth Criminal05
 
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Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

loka said:
no inside news about the upcoming singles ?
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I haven't been reporting updates because I don't have any. My uncle has been away from the office for the past week on holidays. The last I heard the plan was to release Monster as the next single sometime in January. But I'm sure details will begin to leak out in January once people get back to work and begin to plan the first quarter out.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Not in a million years the vocals are Michaels. And nothing in the world can fool me or make me change my mind. The vocals on the cascio tracks are so weak and terrible. $ony sucks!!
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

smooth_criminal05 said:
I haven't been reporting updates because I don't have any. My uncle has been away from the office for the past week on holidays. The last I heard the plan was to release Monster as the next single sometime in January. But I'm sure details will begin to leak out in January once people get back to work and begin to plan the first quarter out.
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thanks a new single is urgent imo...

keep us informed ! thanks
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

smooth_criminal05 said:
Let's try to remain calm. No personal attacks on other members. We are all here for the same reason :)
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Smooth, you didn't reply to my post some time ago wherein I most respectfully asked you to confirm for the record that you have not been paid or retained in any way or form by Sony for services as a 'consultant' to help 'manage' the Michael album 'issues' (in the same way that Raf was retained by Sony to help manage the TINI situation amongst the fanbase)

This is not a personal attack, just a straight question begging a straight answer.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

love is magical said:
I understand that in order to have a successful album, the album has to appeal to the general audience, not just the hardcore fans. Why is Michael Jackson the most beloved ever? It's becasue he can sell to the masses.

I don't live in an ivory tower. I know we don't live in a perfect world. However, do I think the vocals have to be autotuned, processed, robotized to sell? I don't think so. Good music is good music. Good music is wonder to ears. See the reaction to Breaking News. It's mostly negative from the masses. The general audience doesn't seem to like it neither.

It's not like Breaking News and Moster are the only songs in the vault. There are many outtakes the Estate can pick for this album. It's not like the Estate can either release the Cascios tracks or an album with only demos. It's not a mutually exclusive situation.

Sony's and the Estate's intention is just too business oriented and profit driven.
Click to expand...

This isn't really a reality, IMO. He sold to the masses pre-trial, you can't tell me that after that his sales numbers didn't take a hit. He was always profiting, because we the fans were buying his stuff, non-fans didn't think twice, and overlooked it. His image was ruined, and he wasn't quite "selling to the masses", also, your idea of selling to the masses may be completely different from Sony's. It's a sad reality, but death is what repaired Michael's image to the masses, accompanied with a rehearsal film. And even with that, casual and non-fans in most cases, will not buy an album if it doesn't have anything they can relate to on it. Rather it be a catchy hook, or a nice beat, it has to be something they can relate to and would want to hear.

The mainstream music industry is 90% marketability and 10% talent, these days, that's the harsh reality of it. Demo's and the like are not marketable to a mainstream market anymore.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
This isn't really a reality, IMO. He sold to the masses pre-trial, you can't tell me that after that his sales numbers didn't take a hit. He was always profiting, because we the fans were buying his stuff, non-fans didn't think twice, and overlooked it. His image was ruined, and he wasn't quite "selling to the masses", also, your idea of selling to the masses may be completely different from Sony's. It's a sad reality, but death is what repaired Michael's image to the masses, accompanied with a rehearsal film. And even with that, casual and non-fans in most cases, will not buy an album if it doesn't have anything they can relate to on it. Rather it be a catchy hook, or a nice beat, it has to be something they can relate to and would want to hear.

The mainstream music industry is 90% marketability and 10% talent, these days, that's the harsh reality of it. Demo's and the like are not marketable to a mainstream market anymore.
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Puuuhlease...
Are you saying that all other Michael's songs aren't marketable?

Xscape was marketable, but someone leaked it.

Slave to the rhythm and two three other songs leaked just when the new album was released and guess what, none of the leaked songs are on the album! Yet they are quite marketable.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

I feel as though this song (among others) are bits and pieces of MJ throughout the past 10 years (since Invincible). There are pieces that sound EXACTLY like Invincible stuff. They are trying to make more money AS WELL as let people hear them. Don't be too quick to judge. I do believe they are him, just auto-tuned. So what? Everything else today is auto-tuned. Get over it, there will never be another 80's MJ CD (unfortunately).
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

captainreaction said:
I feel as though this song (among others) are bits and pieces of MJ throughout the past 10 years (since Invincible). There are pieces that sound EXACTLY like Invincible stuff. They are trying to make more money AS WELL as let people hear them. Don't be too quick to judge. I do believe they are him, just auto-tuned. So what? Everything else today is auto-tuned. Get over it, there will never be another 80's MJ CD (unfortunately).
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When I hear Akon, Cher, Enrique Iglesias, etc autotuned, they still sound respectively Akon, Cher, Enrique Iglesias, etc.

When I hear Cascio songs, I like the songs, but I say to myself too bad Michael isn't singing them, there would have been much more soul into them and maybe some lyrics would have been adjusted.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

LOL, The Cascio tracks aren't really auto-tuned. Can you hear any auto tune in KYHU?

A few bits in BN are auto-tuned, but nothing more.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

StaceyMJ said:
Fine, well I'll PM him, ask him to come here and he can explain what happened. It's not fair to put him on blast when he isn't here to defend himself or explain his side of the story.
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Well, he came, he saw the questions addressed to him and simply didn't bother to answer. Since he doesn't answer some questions, the doubters can't do anything else but try to draw logical conclusions. I just regret that doubters' conclusions are labeled as speculations. And THAT is not fair.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
This isn't really a reality, IMO. He sold to the masses pre-trial, you can't tell me that after that his sales numbers didn't take a hit. He was always profiting, because we the fans were buying his stuff, non-fans didn't think twice, and overlooked it. His image was ruined, and he wasn't quite "selling to the masses", also, your idea of selling to the masses may be completely different from Sony's. It's a sad reality, but death is what repaired Michael's image to the masses, accompanied with a rehearsal film. And even with that, casual and non-fans in most cases, will not buy an album if it doesn't have anything they can relate to on it. Rather it be a catchy hook, or a nice beat, it has to be something they can relate to and would want to hear.

The mainstream music industry is 90% marketability and 10% talent, these days, that's the harsh reality of it. Demo's and the like are not marketable to a mainstream market anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm not in denial. I totally saw how the trials and accusations negatively impacted Michael's image. But, the media abuse and malicious rumor started way earlier than 2003. Ever since the success of Thriller, Michael has been subjected to media scrutiny. Still, the talents of Michael Jackson are just too huge to be ignored; hence, the name Michael Jackson always sells. How could we explain the success of BAD? By the time BAD was released in 1987, Michael's skin tone was noticeably paler, the stories of Elephant Man's bone, oxygen chamber were going rounds. By the time Dangerous was released in 1992, the "skin bleaching" rumor was fabricated. HIStroy was released after the Chandlers accusations and legal settlements. Also, isn't it true that Michael sold out 50 shows in London alone just before his passing in 2009? Isn't it true that Thriller 25 sold millions in 2008?

I'm not asking Sony to forget about making a mainstream album and release an album of demos to please hardcore fans. As mentioned before, this is not a mutually exclusive situation. It's not either the Cascio tracks or rough demos. The Cascio tracks, as far as I know, are not the only demos in the vault. There are many many outtakes that the Estate and Sony can pick. We all know about the existance of Blue Gangster and Slave to the Rhythm. These two songs are in much more releasable shape than the Cascio tracks.

Please educate me here. Why Breaking News and Monster are considered marketable, while Blue Gangter, STTR and DYKWYCA are considered not? Both Breaking News and Monster share a common theme - Michael's feeling about media mistreatment and paparazzi abuse. How can the general audience relate to such topic? From lyrical content standpoint, both Breaking News and Monster are tough sell. I don't think the masses enjoy listening Michael complaining about the media. In terms of danceable beats, isn't STTR better able to move people's feet?

I know the current music industry is in downward spiral. Unfortunately, marketability is valued more than raw talents. However, we are talking about Michael Jackson here. Michael's talents and iconic status are undeniable. He's way above the up-and-coming youtube artists and reality shows winners. Is it really necessary to drag down his works to suit the current month favor?

Of course my interest and Sony's interest will never align. Sony wants to generate profits. I want an album that lives up to Michael's artistic standard. Sigh... Michael Jackson was indeed a genius. He was able to release albums that not only live up to his perfectionist standard, but also appeal to the masses.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

love is magical said:
I'm not in denial. I totally saw how the trials and accusations negatively impacted Michael's image. But, the media abuse and malicious rumor started way earlier than 2003. Ever since the success of Thriller, Michael has been subjected to media scrutiny. Still, the talents of Michael Jackson are just too huge to be ignored; hence, the name Michael Jackson always sells. How could we explain the success of BAD? By the time BAD was released in 1987, Michael's skin tone was noticeably paler, the stories of Elephant Man's bone, oxygen chamber were going rounds. By the time Dangerous was released in 1992, the "skin bleaching" rumor was fabricated. HIStroy was released after the Chandlers accusations and legal settlements. Also, isn't it true that Michael sold out 50 shows in London alone just before his passing in 2009? Isn't it true that Thriller 25 sold millions in 2008?

I'm not asking Sony to forget about making a mainstream album and release an album of demos to please hardcore fans. As mentioned before, this is not a mutually exclusive situation. It's not either the Cascio tracks or rough demos. The Cascio tracks, as far as I know, are not the only demos in the vault. There are many many outtakes that the Estate and Sony can pick. We all know about the existance of Blue Gangster and Slave to the Rhythm. These two songs are in much more releasable shape than the Cascio tracks.

Please educate me here. Why Breaking News and Monster are considered marketable, while Blue Gangter, STTR and DYKWYCA are considered not? Both Breaking News and Monster share a common theme - Michael's feeling about media mistreatment and paparazzi abuse. How can the general audience relate to such topic? From lyrical content standpoint, both Breaking News and Monster are tough sell. I don't think the masses enjoy listening Michael complaining about the media. In terms of danceable beats, isn't STTR better able to move people's feet?

I know the current music industry is in downward spiral. Unfortunately, marketability is valued more than raw talents. However, we are talking about Michael Jackson here. Michael's talents and iconic status are undeniable. He's way above the up-and-coming youtube artists and reality shows winners. Is it really necessary to drag down his works to suit the current month favor?

Of course my interest and Sony's interest will never align. Sony wants to generate profits. I want an album that lives up to Michael's artistic standard. Sigh... Michael Jackson was indeed a genius. He was able to release albums that not only live up to his perfectionist standard, but also appeal to the masses.
Click to expand...

:clapping:
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

love is magical said:
Sony's and the Estate's intention is just too business oriented and profit driven.
Click to expand...

That's the reality of it. Sony is a business and the goal of a business is to make a profit. The Estate the aim is to make money and its making a lot of it. The important thing should be Michael's legacy and making sure that future generations can enjoy his music, but money is always going to be the main thing for Sony.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

The Estate's job is to make money and take care of Michael Jackson's legacy.
 
Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

love is magical said:
I'm not in denial. I totally saw how the trials and accusations negatively impacted Michael's image. But, the media abuse and malicious rumor started way earlier than 2003. Ever since the success of Thriller, Michael has been subjected to media scrutiny. Still, the talents of Michael Jackson are just too huge to be ignored; hence, the name Michael Jackson always sells. How could we explain the success of BAD? By the time BAD was released in 1987, Michael's skin tone was noticeably paler, the stories of Elephant Man's bone, oxygen chamber were going rounds. By the time Dangerous was released in 1992, the "skin bleaching" rumor was fabricated. HIStroy was released after the Chandlers accusations and legal settlements. Also, isn't it true that Michael sold out 50 shows in London alone just before his passing in 2009? Isn't it true that Thriller 25 sold millions in 2008?

I'm not asking Sony to forget about making a mainstream album and release an album of demos to please hardcore fans. As mentioned before, this is not a mutually exclusive situation. It's not either the Cascio tracks or rough demos. The Cascio tracks, as far as I know, are not the only demos in the vault. There are many many outtakes that the Estate and Sony can pick. We all know about the existance of Blue Gangster and Slave to the Rhythm. These two songs are in much more releasable shape than the Cascio tracks.

Please educate me here. Why Breaking News and Monster are considered marketable, while Blue Gangter, STTR and DYKWYCA are considered not? Both Breaking News and Monster share a common theme - Michael's feeling about media mistreatment and paparazzi abuse. How can the general audience relate to such topic? From lyrical content standpoint, both Breaking News and Monster are tough sell. I don't think the masses enjoy listening Michael complaining about the media. In terms of danceable beats, isn't STTR better able to move people's feet?

I know the current music industry is in downward spiral. Unfortunately, marketability is valued more than raw talents. However, we are talking about Michael Jackson here. Michael's talents and iconic status are undeniable. He's way above the up-and-coming youtube artists and reality shows winners. Is it really necessary to drag down his works to suit the current month favor?

Of course my interest and Sony's interest will never align. Sony wants to generate profits. I want an album that lives up to Michael's artistic standard. Sigh... Michael Jackson was indeed a genius. He was able to release albums that not only live up to his perfectionist standard, but also appeal to the masses.
Click to expand...

Great Post. Michael's music is still sellable if properly promoted. It doesn't need to be brought down to Today's standards to make it sellable. Like Michael said, great music is great music. No change in culture and no current trend can change that.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

innocent until proven guilty. yes, i agree with that. For me, the proof is in the tracks. i don't really need anything else. I don't need a wave analysis or a statement from sony or whatever.

BUT some people (obviously) wouldn't consider that proof. I've seen a lot of: "only michael would know for sure." not true. You know who else knows?

The impersonator.
Whoever hired the impersonator.
Whoever knows this it's fake and is covering it up anyway.

There's tons of people who would have "proof," assuming the tracks are fake. which they are.
 
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