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MJ's religious beliefs.

Re: Michael's faith and beliefs

cool how he was able to express it. for all those invisible happenings that 'don't make sense', this is an appreciative read.
 
Re: Michael's faith and beliefs

At 1:00 Michael speaks of his spiritaul belief and outright says God.
 
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Re: Michael's faith and beliefs

If it weren't for God and his belief in and love for Him, he wouldn't have made it to 50. He also admitted in a an interview with Pharell from 2003, that others would have 'cracked' long before if they had been in his shoes.
 
Re: Michael's faith and beliefs

Alma said:
If it weren't for God and his belief in and love for Him, he wouldn't have made it to 50. He also admitted in a an interview with Pharell from 2003, that others would have 'cracked' long before if they had been in his shoes.
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Yeah I've heard Michael say that before too.. I've even thought the same thing .. Thinking how did he not punch or curse all the time the Paparazzi I mean I've seen soo many famous people do it often or just once they finally flipped even people as sweet as Bjork did. so I've always Gave Michael props for Not going balistic on them.

:wub:
souldreamer7
 
Him being in tune with innocence, him becoming a parent, receiving and appreciating the love from his many fans must have also filled his being with positivity, with love and gratitude. I think that too was a big big part of his resilience through it all, as he had been grateful for his admirers' love and support ever since his early years - he'd say things like he wears jewelry and berets from them and takes pictures of them etc. - and that only grew with time and must have felt like a warm, yet strong hate-proof shield. ...

Then, again... he'd been through obvious hell and got betrayed and hurt too often that would have made anyone turn bitter. His heart was that strong, so here come God and his miracles again..
 
Personally I don't think MJ was religious, he was more of a philosopher trying to find the truth in different places.
 
He read the Bible every day (as confirmed by his bodyguards).. unlike some other philosophers.
 
MechaJackson said:
Personally I don't think MJ was religious, he was more of a philosopher trying to find the truth in different places.
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Alma said:
He read the Bible every day (as confirmed by his bodyguards).. unlike some other philosophers.
Click to expand...

There are many people who don't identify as Christians per one religion, domination or organization who still read the bible on occasion.

MJ was also one of those people even wrote letters to his fans that very often included words such as 'consciousness' 'energy' etc.
I'd venture a guess that most Christians would never use the word 'channel' as MJ seemed to have done- yet it's still very much possible to be of that mindset, read the bible, love Jesus Christ if that's your calling and still not be religious per our definitions.

These things do not have to exclude each other as many seem to think.

Given the fact that he sought out the company of very different 'counselors' doesn't seem to indicate any membership in anything particular. There are even a few spiritually working/mediums whom he sought out for counsel/readings- and that still does not have to prevent anyone from reading the bible. Not at all.

He also stated to have owned several copies of the Bhagavad G?t? and stated to have read it- and his tale of the '2 birds' in 'Dancing The Dream' is very much related to the Upanishads (Upani?ad), Vedic Scripture.

Look further into 'Dancing the Dream' and you'll find references to the Kabbalah, which would be required reading for any seeker of Wisdom since particularly the early mystic Christians were very much influenced that way- before Christianity practically abolished the Mysticism that it was built upon.

Michael often spoke in images of 'form' 'vessels' ('I hold out the form, she fills it with sweetness'), Oneness (the entire This Is It announcement centers about the Oneness of Cosciousness)- that's not far off from 'raising the sparks from God's light' etc.

Just look at 'Remember the Time' and you'll find symbolism anywhere to blatant references to Shiva, snakes and off course the Kemetic faith.

Reading the bible doesn't necessarily prevent you from seeking additional knowledge and wisdom. Michael obviously grew with Jehova's Witnesses and often spoke about Jesus Christ etc- but that certainly didn't prevent him to study other universal wisdom.

I recall a clip from This Is It that rapid fire ran through almost all religious symbols of this planet, crosses, half moons, just about everything.
 
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I've read lots of Hindi poets, lots of buddhist, mystic or sufi ones, including Tagore or Rumi or Omar Khayyam, Kahlil Gibran, plus read the Upanishads myself, and am always curious to read and learn about other religions. Of the world. Haven't read the Bible so far, except for some parts, though, but am deeply Christian and religious nonetheless. Like you said, some things don't have to include other things, though are related. The curiosity to read about a lot is the case with Michael too. Plus, he was in company of Jewish people, of Arabic people, of Chinese, of all nationalities, and read about every culture and creed, and incorporated those in his videos and poems. He basically made references to the history and cultures of the world, of his interest in the myths and legends of antiquity, not necessarily congruent to his personal beliefs. He was a lover of culture and art and knowledge and symbolism. He was a seeker of wisdom, as you said. A really thirsty one.

After severing ties with the Jehovah Witness religion or cult, though, he was no longer belonging to a specific religion, he got influenced by some more or less spiritual advisors too (attention-seeking fakes like Chopra, Boteach or Geller, this one creating that artwork for 'Invincible", loaded with masonic symbols, like the Egyptian pyramid and the all-seeing eye of Horus, believed to be also occult), the infinity sign, a pentagram, stars, numerology, the UFO, symbolizing the 2001 Space Odissey, a movie loaded with symbols, such as astrological alignment http://jaysanalysis.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/0531002325.jpg, looking like an illuminated head with two illuminated horns - the deification of man as this world's god, + the reversal of Genesis 1), but Michael definitely was deeply Christian inside. Just that he got a lot of bad 'teachers' around him and taking advantage of his quest for a firm belief, not marred by all sorts of weird or dark deviations... He started celebrating Christmas with his children and friends, buying presents for family and friends and so on. He tried to follow Jesus and his teaching a lot, by him loving and helping children, hosting both disadvantaged and .. advantaged families at his home, sharing with them his life. He spoke about that a lot, too. And kept searching and reading and, in a way, still held on to some JW notions and creeds, like in some of his interviews, or as he'd say, wouldn't really celebrate his birthday still. I don't know whether he got to become a born-again Christian, if he got christened into it... don't think he did, though....in the New Testament of the Christian Bible, Jesus say, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born again.' ... This particularly is what is eating me up inside when it comes to Michael, and some others who have passed... I try not to think too much about it, but I can't help it sometimes than fear... and pray Michael's soul, at least, is safe, and that He is merciful to him... Yeah, it's something I, as a Christian, am deeply concerned with and have to wonder where he is now because of that.... ):

As for the 'This Is It' clip before his "I'll Be There" performance, it contained numerous, numerous distinct masonic symbols that Freemasonery has been using in their cult. Some of those symbols were present on his "Dangerous" cover. I seriously, seriously doubt he was a mason, in fact I know he wasn't - must have read about them, as he read about many other things, thus incorporated them to depict a dangerous world via his painter - , but not the same can affirm about AEG, personally, they could've very well created the intro for 'I'll Be There", Just like they did create/showed some of the very same various masonic symbols on screen at his memorial service, Before and/or during 'We Are The World". I don't believe in coincidences, and I know and have gotten overly informed on how freemasonery works and their world expansion and influence and love of power and money. And how Murray, for instance, who was all into 'helping' 'brother' Michael, his 'friend', his 'fellow man', has been blinded by the lust of money and fame, and not even precious lives like Michael's could top that... In fact that fueled that kind of sick interest in him on behalf of far too many..

.. Moreover, many have got this venomous spite and prejudice against Christianity (more precisely the Roman Catholic Church's Inquisition and crusades against heretics), and think that all their teachings are hypocritical and fake because of that. Or that all churches are that way and their followers are blind sheeple. Let's not overgeneralize Christianity or mix it with, say, the centuries-old Vatican propaganda/agenda, for instance. Had to say this for some reason, because there's this increased hatred and irrational behavior being disseminated out there (not referring to you, Pace) about Christianity and how many have chosen to become agnostics or wanderers or plain atheists and screwed religion altogether because of their..well, ignorance and prejudice, really, and it's a thing that happens on this forum, too, sadly. That rebellion has also been the cause since ages for the rising and flourishing of so many secret cults and/or societies. In the case of freemasons, the subliminal is one of their most potent secret weapons that are fooling as we speak, people/congregations around the world.

But that is Not the thread for that or for extending this topic, as it deals with religion, and, sadly, it's never a consensual debate, and never ends well. ... I think. But had to say all that.
 
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There also many things said about him from people who spent time with him during his last months alive that shows that he had very strong faith in God and The Bible.
Janet did say on Oprah that Michael use to take the Children to The Kingdom Hall.
Pastor Andrae Coruch have said that he believed Michael knew The Lord, and he saw him just weeks before he died. That is officall on his facebook page.
"Michael was a deeply Christian and believed that private acts of charity were considered virtuous only if not done for others to admire" This was said by Patrick Treacy during an interview not to long ago and he did stay in touch with him during his last years alive.

So yea, that he had a strong faith is very clear. And I too believe that that is what took him through so much of his hard times. Even if all of us don't agree with him, or we belong to another religion that he did, or had a different faith than Michael's JW or Christian faith (dont' know if it's the same or not =) ), I'm sure we all are glad that Michael was strong in his faith.[FONT=&quot]

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i believe he was a christain as he was a 'follower' of jesus and he always talked about jesus and GOD so i think he was non denominational christain
 
Alma said:
Had to say this for some reason, because there's this increased hatred and irrational behavior being disseminated out there (not referring to you, Pace) about Christianity and how many have chosen to become agnostics or wanderers or plain atheists and screwed religion altogether because of their..well, ignorance and prejudice, really, and it's a thing that happens on this forum, too, sadly.
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I used to be a Christian. Raised as a Christian since the age of 12. I've read the Bible several times, so I don't consider myself "ignorant" about it or about what Christianity teaches. Yet, I came to the conclusion that it's not true and now I'm an agnostic/atheist. I don't want to get into religious arguments, maybe in the off topic session, if people are interested to discuss this, but not here. I respect other people's right to believe in anything they want to believe in. All I want to point out is that agnosticism/atheism is not equal to ignorance. In fact, I have recently read about a survey which showed that atheists know more about the Bible than Christians....
 
Pace said:
There are many people who don't identify as Christians per one religion, domination or organization who still read the bible on occasion.

MJ was also one of those people even wrote letters to his fans that very often included words such as 'consciousness' 'energy' etc.
I'd venture a guess that most Christians would never use the word 'channel' as MJ seemed to have done- yet it's still very much possible to be of that mindset, read the bible, love Jesus Christ if that's your calling and still not be religious per our definitions.

These things do not have to exclude each other as many seem to think.

Given the fact that he sought out the company of very different 'counselors' doesn't seem to indicate any membership in anything particular. There are even a few spiritually working/mediums whom he sought out for counsel/readings- and that still does not have to prevent anyone from reading the bible. Not at all.

He also stated to have owned several copies of the Bhagavad G?t? and stated to have read it- and his tale of the '2 birds' in 'Dancing The Dream' is very much related to the Upanishads (Upani?ad), Vedic Scripture.

Look further into 'Dancing the Dream' and you'll find references to the Kabbalah, which would be required reading for any seeker of Wisdom since particularly the early mystic Christians were very much influenced that way- before Christianity practically abolished the Mysticism that it was built upon.

Michael often spoke in images of 'form' 'vessels' ('I hold out the form, she fills it with sweetness'), Oneness (the entire This Is It announcement centers about the Oneness of Cosciousness)- that's not far off from 'raising the sparks from God's light' etc.

Just look at 'Remember the Time' and you'll find symbolism anywhere to blatant references to Shiva, snakes and off course the Kemetic faith.

Reading the bible doesn't necessarily prevent you from seeking additional knowledge and wisdom. Michael obviously grew with Jehova's Witnesses and often spoke about Jesus Christ etc- but that certainly didn't prevent him to study other universal wisdom.

I recall a clip from This Is It that rapid fire ran through almost all religious symbols of this planet, crosses, half moons, just about everything.
Click to expand...

I agree. He was a seeker and I'd rather call him a spiritual (interested in many religions) with Christian leanings.
 
respect77 said:
I used to be a Christian. Raised as a Christian since the age of 12. I've read the Bible several times, so I don't consider myself "ignorant" about it or about what Christianity teaches. Yet, I came to the conclusion that it's not true and now I'm an agnostic/atheist. I don't want to get into religious arguments, maybe in the off topic session, if people are interested to discuss this, but not here. I respect other people's right to believe in anything they want to believe in. All I want to point out is that agnosticism/atheism is not equal to ignorance. In fact, I have recently read about a survey which showed that atheists know more about the Bible than Christians....
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Or so they think, doesn't make it the gospel.

And again, and as you said, that's not the thread to debate on stuff like that. ...
 
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Michael Jackson, Jesus, and Me
My story of Christian fellowship with the King of Pop

0609michaeljackson1650.jpg

From left: Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson, Leonard Bernstein, Jamie Bernstein, and David Pack.

By David Pack

In August of 1986, the famous composer Leonard Bernstein was in Los Angeles to conduct a classical concert at UCLA’s Royce Hall. Knowing that his birthday would fall on the same week, I asked him what he wanted. Without missing a beat, Leonard said, “I want to meet Michael Jackson.”

At the time, Michael was the biggest pop star in the universe. He was just coming off the massive global success of Thriller, a sold-out world tour, and multiple Grammy wins that catapulted him into the rarified air of Beatlesque pandemonium wherever he went. He was seen inside the music industry as the greatest raw talent of a generation, and the combination of Michael and Quincy Jones in the studio set a standard that may never be equaled.

Leonard was a global superstar and TV personality in his own right—he is listed in many publications as the most celebrated musician, conductor, and composer of the 20th century. Yet Leonard was awestruck by the talent of Michael, describing him to me once as “the most electrifying pop star I’ve seen since the Beatles.” Leonard wanted to introduce Michael to classical music and maybe inspire Michael toward a collaboration of classical and pop music.

I was determined to grant Leonard his birthday wish by making the meeting of my two friends happen. So I called another friend, Quincy Jones, also a musical titan and legend whom I’d introduced to Leonard the previous year at yet another dinner.

Quincy idolized Leonard Bernstein, so he said he’d call Michael and ask. An hour later, he called to say that Michael couldn’t make it. When I told Leonard that Michael wouldn’t be there, he said, “What? You tell him that I, Leonard Bernstein, command him to come to my concert!” I got back on the phone with Quincy. Two hours later, Quincy called to say that Michael would be there. “But he’s never been to a classical concert, so this should be interesting!”

At the concert, Michael loved watching Leonard, who at one point leapt three feet in the air during a section of the score and landed with a loud ‘thud.’ (Quincy, Michael, and I were pretty sure this was Leonard trying to show off for Michael.)

Later that night, during a dinner at my house, I came to see Michael as a man with one of the sweetest souls I’ve ever known. He thanked me over and over for “commanding” him to come to the concert. He asked me to remind him of some of my hit songs with Ambrosia, so I sang a chorus of “Biggest Part of Me.” His eyes lit up like a little kid’s, and he took over and sang the entire chorus back to me.

At one point, Leonard draped his long white scarf around his neck and Michael’s for a series of photos, then stood up and gave Michael a conducting lesson on the spot. Later, these two musical giants bonded over . . . acne! They both had problems with it, and somehow that very embarrassing personal topic was their major connecting point. Leonard would talk about this for years to come. Michael called me the next day and asked for photos from that night, and he was thrilled when he got them.

0609michaeljackson2650.jpg
David Pack stands and toasts with Michael Jackson, Leonard Bernstein, Quincy Jones, and others.

During that special evening, I felt the need to share my faith with him, to let him know that another Christian artist was sitting next to him. So when he whispered, “How can I ever thank you for this wonderful night?” I said, “Michael, I didn’t put this together, God did!” He said, “Oh yes, I believe that with all of my heart.”

I told him I was a Christian, and he said he was, too. We talked about the first Christian song we’d both heard as children: “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so. Little ones to him belong, they are weak but he is strong.” With the dinner party loudly going on around us, we both quietly leaned in and sang the song, smiling like choirboys. “Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me.” Then we gave each other a short embrace.

I knew at that moment that this sweet-spirited young genius was going to find his eternal peace in heaven. I did not find Michael weird, messed up, or anything you’ve ever heard about him. I want to say that I feel all of the allegations ever charged against Michael were false, and that in my discernment, he did not have the capacity to ever do anything except love children and let them know he would do anything to stand up for them, and help them. Just look at the magnificent work he did on their behalf in writing and co-producing “We Are The World,” and the 39 charities for children he gave to generously. That was Michael. I believe that during his trials he related to the suffering of Christ, and prayed for intervention, because he was being accused over what he loved most—children. This caused him perhaps more pain than anything in his life.

I know Michael loved Jesus with all his heart. Quincy had told me about his work sharing his faith with others, often door-to-door, because he’d been raised a devout Jehovah’s Witness. Later in life he told people he was a non-denominational Christian. Still more recently, reports circulated that he’d converted to Islam. But the Michael I knew had seriously contemplated giving up music to spend full-time in Christian ministry.

If there’s anything that gives me peace during this moment of loss, it’s knowing that one of the greatest artists of our time is now moon-walking along the gold paved roads of heaven, where streets have no name, with a broad smile on his face, and a band of angels welcoming him home.

Michael, my friend, rest in heavenly peace.
 
respect77 said:
I used to be a Christian. Raised as a Christian since the age of 12. I've read the Bible several times, so I don't consider myself "ignorant" about it or about what Christianity teaches. Yet, I came to the conclusion that it's not true and now I'm an agnostic/atheist. I don't want to get into religious arguments, maybe in the off topic session, if people are interested to discuss this, but not here. I respect other people's right to believe in anything they want to believe in. All I want to point out is that agnosticism/atheism is not equal to ignorance. In fact, I have recently read about a survey which showed that atheists know more about the Bible than Christians....
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That was not true, exactly. I saw the survey on another site and it was not about the Bible totally per se. They asked questions about religion in gheneral. Such as when the Puritans came to America or something like that. So, that really does n0ot hold water.
 
Pace said:
There are many people who don't identify as Christians per one religion, domination or organization who still read the bible on occasion.

MJ was also one of those people even wrote letters to his fans that very often included words such as 'consciousness' 'energy' etc.
I'd venture a guess that most Christians would never use the word 'channel' as MJ seemed to have done- yet it's still very much possible to be of that mindset, read the bible, love Jesus Christ if that's your calling and still not be religious per our definitions.

These things do not have to exclude each other as many seem to think.

Given the fact that he sought out the company of very different 'counselors' doesn't seem to indicate any membership in anything particular. There are even a few spiritually working/mediums whom he sought out for counsel/readings- and that still does not have to prevent anyone from reading the bible. Not at all.

He also stated to have owned several copies of the Bhagavad G?t? and stated to have read it- and his tale of the '2 birds' in 'Dancing The Dream' is very much related to the Upanishads (Upani?ad), Vedic Scripture.

Look further into 'Dancing the Dream' and you'll find references to the Kabbalah, which would be required reading for any seeker of Wisdom since particularly the early mystic Christians were very much influenced that way- before Christianity practically abolished the Mysticism that it was built upon.

Michael often spoke in images of 'form' 'vessels' ('I hold out the form, she fills it with sweetness'), Oneness (the entire This Is It announcement centers about the Oneness of Cosciousness)- that's not far off from 'raising the sparks from God's light' etc.

Just look at 'Remember the Time' and you'll find symbolism anywhere to blatant references to Shiva, snakes and off course the Kemetic faith.

Reading the bible doesn't necessarily prevent you from seeking additional knowledge and wisdom. Michael obviously grew with Jehova's Witnesses and often spoke about Jesus Christ etc- but that certainly didn't prevent him to study other universal wisdom.

I recall a clip from This Is It that rapid fire ran through almost all religious symbols of this planet, crosses, half moons, just about everything.
Click to expand...

This type of thread has cropped up before, (and usually goes south.) :bugeyed But, I agree with the above.

Michael read many different kinds of religious texts. He was very careful not to self-identify specifically with any, one religion, although he did say he tried to "imitate Jesus," which is a very noble thing to do.

At his memorial, on the screen, were symbols of many of the world's religions. In Dancing the Dream, as stated above, he referenced many different religious texts. He kept his religious/spiritual beliefs VERY private, and NOBODY here knows, for certain. With that said, Jesus seemed to be very important in his life.
 
Autumn II said:
He kept his religious/spiritual beliefs VERY private, and NOBODY here knows, for certain. With that said, Jesus seemed to be very important in his life.
Click to expand...


And Nobody here claimed they do. Just putting two and two together in a debate thread, given his own words, actions and actions. Maybe this is a thread that needs to be closed, since it's too long and has run its course.

Michael wanted to keep his religion private, as he tried to do with his personal life. So as not feel that could offend anyone by any means. ..
 
Just wanted to add... this topic is of a great concern to some.. specially now since he's gone, and they wanna feel somehow that he is Indeed in a better place. I've done nothing wrong in wondering, for instance, where he is now, for that is what matters the most since that fateful June 25 day... Don't even know whether he is merely asleep now, or awake in another dimension, waiting for his place to live in eternally, and when the ... decisive day comes for us all, if God will call him back to life among his chosen sheep... That is really serious... I don't know what to add on that except it is the most serious thing ever: what happens to a particular soul when it flies away, and where it will go. ...
 
Alma said:
Just wanted to add... this topic is of a great concern to some.. specially now since he's gone, and they wanna feel somehow that he is Indeed in a better place. I've done nothing wrong in wondering, for instance, where he is now, for that is what matters the most since that fateful June 25 day... Don't even know whether he is merely asleep now, or awake in another dimension, waiting for his place to live in eternally, and when the ... decisive day comes for us all, if God will call him back to life among his chosen sheep... That is really serious... I don't know what to add on that except it is the most serious thing ever: what happens to a particular soul when it flies away, and where it will go. ...
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I fully AGREE. You have done NOTHING wrong here, and it's certainly worthy of discussing. :clapping:
 
I believe that it's not that hard to know what michael really believed, not that it matters to us and it is ofcourse his thing. He never really changed his faith, with that I mean that in every interview he did from the beging to the very end he has always said the same thing. He has said over and over again that he gets his strength from the Bible, that he reads it every day, that he's trying to do what Jesus said, that he did indeed go to the Kingdom Hall every now and then, and also to church. We know that pastor Coruch did spend time with him just before he died, not just becuase of music reasons, but also to sing and pray. And there is so much more, but they all point to one thing.

So yes, it's private and there is never anyway any of us can know for sure what is in any persons heart when it comes to a persons faith but Michael doesn't seem like that type of a person who would say the same thing his whole life to actually believe something else, also, from his action too, I think it's very clear that he was very close to the faith he was raised in, and that was his faith his whole life.

I don't see anything wrong with saying that and I don't see why anyone would get upset by that. To me that is a fact as much as you can have a fact about this, and there is no reason why we can't just say it. It's his faith, his choice.
 
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