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MJ's religious beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with any religion, Islam including. But that doesn't mean Jackson was a Muslim, he was not, or else he would have had a traditional Muslim burial they wouldnt have had a pastor on there, neither a Christan burial. Every religion is beautiful in its own way, but that doesnt make MJ a follower of XYZ. He was what he was, whatever he was his God let him down.
 
twinklEE said:
There is nothing wrong with any religion, Islam including. But that doesn't mean Jackson was a Muslim, he was not, or else he would have had a traditional Muslim burial they wouldnt have had a pastor on there, neither a Christan burial. Every religion is beautiful in its own way, but that doesnt make MJ a follower of XYZ. He was what he was, whatever he was his God let him down.
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Or saved him?

I don't know, just saying that can also be an opption.
 
Indra said:
Or saved him?

I don't know, just saying that can also be an opption.
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Good point.
icon_yes.gif
 
Bo G said:
I'm not comfortable with this notion that victims of suffering must necessarily be blamed for doing something wrong or not being right with God. Did the woman and daughter backpackers who were raped, placed in the trunk of a car, which was then set on fire, not trust in God enough? If everything happens for a reason, perhaps someone needs to explain that to their family.
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This idea that if something bad happens to you then there must be a reason for it ( either God wanted this bad thing to happen to you or you did something wrong to deserve it) is still espoused because it makes other people feel better and safer. If they are not doing anything that they consider wrong, then nothing bad will happen to them. It is a total fabrication and is also incredibly selfish and cruel. The last thing that suffering people need is some insecure religious person telling them that it is actually their fault. I will never forget the disdain I felt for a local pastor who told my friends aunt that she had cancer because she had divorced her abusive husband. I am hoping there will be a special place in hell for that "pastor".
 
sfboys said:
Agreed. Two great examples of this are found in the songs Jam and Will You Be There. In Jam he mentions the ancient Jewish text, the Talmud, makes reference to Buddha, to God (in the Christian sense); also asking the listened to "recognize me in the temple", another Jewish, and pre-common era mystic location, such as the temples of the Greek Gods.

In Will You Be There, he asks that we "hold [him] like the River Jordan." Referred to in both the Old and New Testaments, the River Jordan holds deep and significant meanings including the act of baptism, healing powers, a path to righteousness, and has even been used to analogize the journey into the afterlife. He also sings "heal and bathe me", an obvious reference to both baptism and likely also referring to the act of washing a beggar's feet as did Jesus did in order to teach humility. He uses words with heavy religious connotation as well. The terms themselves or equivalent meanings are found in the great books from all religions and include: darkest hour, trials and tribulations, deepest confessions, joy and pain, promise of another tomorrow". These are many of the most powerful words used in religious texts due to their strongly felt emotion. They call to one's soul.

As recently as the Invincible recording session, Michael sang in the song, "So many people in agony, this shouldn't have to be. Too busy focusing on ourselves and not His Majesty." Again he refers to His Majesty which has been used to name many different religious Gods. Even the royal families of the world use the word because it associates them with the mystic and the spiritual, giving them instant power and credibility by association.

And of course, HIStory contains direct reference and reverence to God, more specific to Christianity, but not to any one sect.

Lyrics like "Though It's Plain To See/This World Is Heavenly/Be God's Glow" and "Turn their swords to plowshares" (Heal the World) and "What about all the peace/That you pledged your only son" (Earth Song) not only cause one to envision a utopia that Jackson continuously campaigned for; it also showed a commitment to the major themes of Christianity.

Michael attended synagogue and shared in Sabbath dinner with Shmukhead during their time together, and he worked with the Nation of Islam during his 1995 trial and afterward. He also had a spiritual adviser of no denomination (who was shown on shows after his death sharing a tape of his recent calls where he said he was afraid of the people around him taking control...off subject, sorry). He met with Sandra and Andre Crouch before his passing and asked to be annointed with spirituality. They spent the night holding hands and talking of Jesus.

I don't think one could find another human with the ability to make such a comprehensive look at the plethora religions of the world. It amazes me to think of the amount of heart and soul and time he put into understanding God in Michael Jackson's vision of God. My personal feeling is that he never stuck with any one vision...that was too limiting and he saw through that. He wanted to be the best; to emulate the best; to create the best; and to treat other the best. What better way than to seek the ultimate truth and to share that by LIVING it.


In his own words, Michael described his faith at various times in his life as follows:

After his disassociation with Jehovah's Witnesses, Jackson never publicly aligned himself to any religion but statements he made in interviews, the spiritual imagery in his songs and his charity work showed signs of a personal faith.


When asked about being a father, he said: "[Parenthood] reminds you to do what the Bible has always told us. When the Apostles were arguing among themselves over who was the greatest in Jesus' eyes, he said, 'None of you,' and called over a little boy and said, 'until you humble yourself like this child.' It reminds you to be kind and humble and to see things...with a childlike wonderment." ("Michael In The Mirror", USA Today, 2001)


And explaining the song writing process, Jackson said "It's very spiritual. it's as if its been written in its entirety before you were born and you're just really the source through which the songs come. It's a work of God."
And on performing live: "You're connected to a higher source and you... become one with, you know, the spirit. It's a very...much like religion. It's a God-given gift. ("Online Audio Chat with Michael Jackson", RollingStone.com, October 26, 2001)

​
Michael Jackson's religion? Spirituality. He was all about the soul: musically, magically, mystically, and religiously. Yet another reason to appreciate his magnificent soul all the more. Amazing...simply amazing. I miss your BODY and soul on Earth Mike. I pray we can take your education of divinity and keep the love alive.
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Great post. I agree 100%
 
I just finished reading Moonwalk last night and I can see that he did believe in God. I think this was right after he left the JWs, because it was published in 1988. He mentions God a LOT in the book. I find his quotes about God in the book beautiful.
 
between the oprah interview, and many quotes that i heard, he spoke much of being like Jesus. in the oprah interview, he had said he 'tried' to be like Jesus, and then he stressed that he wasn't saying that he was God, because he knew that people liked to twist his words. what impressed me, was that he spoke of Jesus directly, instead of speaking of another human being's impression of Jesus, which i heard from most other people. he spoke mainly of Jesus' relationship to children. this, being a focal point of MJ's statements, in order to get people to understand that MJ's relationships with children, were innocent, and not sinister. now, from what i read in the Bible, people accused Jesus of not following his OWN religion, properly, so, controversy, on this subject, is expected.

from what MJ said, if i open my heart, to what i know inside(people tend to know things, inside, before they are taught...especially, children), MJ saw Jesus as God.(gathering from him clarifying that MJ was not God, after MJ said that he tried to be like Jesus)

MJ seemed to distinguish what Jesus said and did, Himself, as opposed to what people in the Bible, said about Jesus, let alone, what people in the world, these days, said about Jesus. and, quite frankly, MJ's life example was more authentic Jesus-like, than anybody else i have observed. ironic that the preachers that i have heard in churches, would not agree with me on that.

i have heard them play all kinds of music...hip hop and other stuff, but turn off MJ's music.(i'm talking about a lot of contemporary preachers in the Los Angeles area)

so i speak of MJ as someone who followed Jesus, the figure expressed in the Bible, as opposed to a denomination, a sect, a particular church, or other building where people gather, for what they say, is religious puproses.

after all, he wasn't in any particular church, later in his life. here is a video of one of MJ's expressions about Jesus. and, also, i notice that just because a person smiles, it doesn't mean they are happy. MJ's smile came natural, but his pain in the presence of stone hearted people was very evident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZKnI-np2Dk

it's safe to say that MJ followed every word and move of God, and kept the words of Jesus..all of them. not just some of them, as some other people seem to do. and therefore, he experienced some things that some others, who say they are religious, never experienced. some supernatural things, for lack of a better word. miracles. things that Jesus said were 'works'.

and it's safe to say that since Jesus said that if He was followed properly, His followers would experience persecution for no reason. MJ obviously experienced that.
 
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callmerose said:
This idea that if something bad happens to you then there must be a reason for it ( either God wanted this bad thing to happen to you or you did something wrong to deserve it) is still espoused because it makes other people feel better and safer. If they are not doing anything that they consider wrong, then nothing bad will happen to them. It is a total fabrication and is also incredibly selfish and cruel. The last thing that suffering people need is some insecure religious person telling them that it is actually their fault. I will never forget the disdain I felt for a local pastor who told my friends aunt that she had cancer because she had divorced her abusive husband. I am hoping there will be a special place in hell for that "pastor".
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Without suffering there is no growth of spirit. Human 'being' means living humanity in all of its joy and horror. There is no real bad or good. All truth lies in one's perception.
 
sfboys said:
Without suffering there is no growth of spirit. Human 'being' means living humanity in all of its joy and horror. There is no real bad or good. All truth lies in one's perception.
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Your interpretation reminded me of this classic take on Joy and Sorrow..


start_quote_rb.gif
Then a woman said, "Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow."

And he answered:

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that hold your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."

But I say unto you, they are inseparable.

Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.

Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.

When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall.
end_quote_rb.gif


Khalil Gibran
The Prophet
1921​
​
 
His religious beliefs are so interesting :)

:heart:Michael sure believes in Goodness, God, innocence, Justice but He surely didn't let people and books push beliefs into his head which were based on no fact and unproven. He was smart to discover the contradics written in books and He had questions, men couldn't answer. smart of him indeed.

He believed God was not to judge. and that there is no Justice System on earth.
so fascinating indeed. :wub: :yes:
 
ArXter, your Gibran poem was beautiful, many thanks for posting! I've loved KG forever. Joy and sorrow are indeed intertwined... there's much comfort in embracing that...

On another note...

Very early in this thread I mentioned a wish that someone would cull together and paste MJ's comments on religion from Boteach's book. It would be nice to have a simple post with only these, MJ's words alone, no editorializing by Boteach (or us, even). It's hard, it seems to me, to adequately discuss his views without having this main source for actual quotes by him here. No takers yet... anyone with more time for this project than I have? Just a quick cut and paste job from the Boteach-free transcription posted elsewhere... I can hunt that down if needed.

(I'd love to see this done on a few other topics, for other threads, too).

UPDATE
MJ7777 kindly messaged me the URL for the Boteach-free transcription I mentioned: It's at http://jetzi-mjvideo.com/books2/tape/tape0axd.html (Boteach-free meaning it's all just MJ's words, with Boteach edited out).
 
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Okay, I'm going to tell you guys what I THINK, not know, but think. After reading through all of the 25 pages I think we can be pretty sure of some things.


1. Michael Jackson believed in God. He believed in a higher power that was greater than us.

2. There have been MANY rumors about Michael and his faith; the media have said he converted to almost all religions known to mankind. Some are easier to prove false then other. We know for sure that Michael never converted to Islam, which is probably the easiest to prove false. (http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Michael_Jackson) Also the rumor that he converted to Hindu right before his death seems to be pretty much yet another media lie. Jewish maybe? After reading through here and doing some research online I would say that is also a lie. Christian?... that lead me to nr 3.

3. If we all did our research I think it is pretty clear that Michael's faith was still somewhat of what he was raised to be, a JW. He didn't belong to that faith officially but if you listen to him talk, to people who knew him until the very end talk, and just do some research it is at least for me pretty clear that the foundation of his faith came from JW.

4. One thing that to me proves this in a very strong way, more than Michael's own words and people close to him talking about it, is his mother. I've been a Michael fan for almost 20 years, if there is one thing that's been clear throughout all of these years is the very special relationship Michael shared with her. They were so close; the closes person in Michael's life was his mom. When Michael died, I know there was a lot of speculation in the media how his funeral would be (of course they wonder because they have made up all those lies about him converting to every religion possible). I remember thinking that Michael's mom will give her son the memorial and funeral that Michael would have wanted. She loved him more than any of us, and she knew him better than any of us, she would never go against his will and with her own instead. The fact that the memorial and funeral was the way it was was a very strong proof to me that Michael indeed had a faith similar to the one he was raised in. Maybe it had been influenced by others, like the celebration of Christmas indicate, but the foundation was the JW faith.

5. Greater than all of this is the fact that he loved and respected all, that he thought everyone have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it didn't hurt anyone else. This is what Michael was all about. L.O.V.E for ALL, no matter religion.

6. So no matter what Michael personally believed, that is what we all should do too.

Just my conclusion after a lot of research and reading.
 
Here are some quotes from the Schmuley tapes:

Children are a spark of God here on Earth.

There is nothing more pure and spiritual to me than children...

The Bible says we were meant for immortality. But through sin and all this, we get death.

I would love to come back as a child that never grows old, like Peter Pan. That I keep coming back. I hope that's true...
(Schmuley asks him about reincarnation). MJ says, "Yeah, eeven though our, my religion (the Jehovah's Witness church), talks against it, that
there's no such thing as (reincarnation)...When you die, the soul dies and it's like this couch, the dead, you know? But there's the rpomise of the resurrection
and all that."

(In talking about Hindus believing in reincarnation) I'd like to believe that, adn I like what the Egyptians and the Africans do, how they bury their dead...I'd
like to see, what the other side looks like. Don't we?

He hopes there are children playing in heaven. He would think adults are in heaven as well. But, they are childlike. Like Adam and Eve, it is a happy garden.
A perfect peaceful place. I pray that it is like that.

Schmuley asks if he thinks God has chosen him, given him this special...MJ says, "I really believe that. If you could see some of the faces around the world and
people say, 'Thank you, thank you for saving the life of me and my children. Can I touch you?' and then they start crying. It's like healing. We are given this
for a areason...to help people."

[God has answered my prayers] usually. Absolutely. That's why I believ in it.

I don't think God meant it in that way. Like Halloween, I missed out on Halloween for years and now I do it. It's sweet to go door to door and people give you
candy. We need more of this in the world. Is brings the world together.

God gave him a certain healing power. When people say,"Touch my baby. Hold my baby" to me, it is not hero worship, like religions try to say, like idol worship...
My religion taught us that you are not supposed to do that. If I had gone to my church they would have never treated me the way your church treated me.

I have a relationship with Jesus.

I love the sermon on the mount. I love the story when the Apostles are arguing amongst themselves about who is the greatest and Jesus says,"Unless you humble yourself
like this little child, be childlike..." I thought that was a perfect thing to say. Return to innocence.

But (what doesn't make sense to me is that God) tested them (with the forbidden fruit). And if you are God you should know the outcome. And if you are God, why test if
create a perfect being that should not be able to do do any wrong? And why judge and thrust such anger on themand run them away and tempt them with a snake? Would a
God go such a thing? Would I do that to your children? No I wouldn't. I am not here trying to judge God or criticize him in any way. But sometimes I think it is a
symbolism to teach us certain lessons. I don't know if it really happened. I wouldn't take your little baby or any of them and have something see if they would do
right or wrong. And then to have the two kids (Cain and Able)...was it incest? And they were two boys, how did they have children? And all of those things that they
couldn't answer for me.

Although I once believed God is in a church, I now believe God is everywhere, he's in my heart...I now find God in those moments I spend with my children, I find God in
the innocent. (Schmuley is quoting MJ).

I think evil is in people's hearts. I don't think there is some devil out there manipulating our thoughts. That is what I was taught.

I believe there are some good people in the world and I do believe there is a God. But I don't believe that God judges. I don't think that He is upstairs going,
"You are alright. But I am going to tear you up."

We were all taught to believe in the devil and Lucifer and the burial ground, where you never get resurrection and judgement. There is a decision being made right now
as we talk. Jesus is putting certain people on the left and certain people on the right, adn when the end of the world comes all those people on the left will be
swallowed up and they will be dead forever. That's not fair is it? There are a lot of beautiful, good people in the world no matter what religion, nomatter what race.
If there was really such a thing as true heavenly justice, I don't think Hitler would have gotten away with what he did for as long as he did. He reveals leter on that
he is talking about the judicial system).

That's one of my favorite things to think about too, (how hidden God is).

(He does not feel angry at God for bad things happenning) I just don't understand them. I wish we knew more about the other side. I know it promises everlasting life
and being in heaven. But why suffering and why pain before crossing over to the white light, whatever it is? It should just be the most beautiful experience, whatever
it is.
 
ginvid said:
Here are some quotes from the Schmuley tapes:

Children are a spark of God here on Earth.

There is nothing more pure and spiritual to me than children...

The Bible says we were meant for immortality. But through sin and all this, we get death.

I would love to come back as a child that never grows old, like Peter Pan. That I keep coming back. I hope that's true...
(Schmuley asks him about reincarnation). MJ says, "Yeah, eeven though our, my religion (the Jehovah's Witness church), talks against it, that
there's no such thing as (reincarnation)...When you die, the soul dies and it's like this couch, the dead, you know? But there's the rpomise of the resurrection
and all that."

(In talking about Hindus believing in reincarnation) I'd like to believe that, adn I like what the Egyptians and the Africans do, how they bury their dead...I'd
like to see, what the other side looks like. Don't we?

He hopes there are children playing in heaven. He would think adults are in heaven as well. But, they are childlike. Like Adam and Eve, it is a happy garden.
A perfect peaceful place. I pray that it is like that.

Schmuley asks if he thinks God has chosen him, given him this special...MJ says, "I really believe that. If you could see some of the faces around the world and
people say, 'Thank you, thank you for saving the life of me and my children. Can I touch you?' and then they start crying. It's like healing. We are given this
for a areason...to help people."

[God has answered my prayers] usually. Absolutely. That's why I believ in it.

I don't think God meant it in that way. Like Halloween, I missed out on Halloween for years and now I do it. It's sweet to go door to door and people give you
candy. We need more of this in the world. Is brings the world together.

God gave him a certain healing power. When people say,"Touch my baby. Hold my baby" to me, it is not hero worship, like religions try to say, like idol worship...
My religion taught us that you are not supposed to do that. If I had gone to my church they would have never treated me the way your church treated me.

I have a relationship with Jesus.

I love the sermon on the mount. I love the story when the Apostles are arguing amongst themselves about who is the greatest and Jesus says,"Unless you humble yourself
like this little child, be childlike..." I thought that was a perfect thing to say. Return to innocence.

But (what doesn't make sense to me is that God) tested them (with the forbidden fruit). And if you are God you should know the outcome. And if you are God, why test if
create a perfect being that should not be able to do do any wrong? And why judge and thrust such anger on themand run them away and tempt them with a snake? Would a
God go such a thing? Would I do that to your children? No I wouldn't. I am not here trying to judge God or criticize him in any way. But sometimes I think it is a
symbolism to teach us certain lessons. I don't know if it really happened. I wouldn't take your little baby or any of them and have something see if they would do
right or wrong. And then to have the two kids (Cain and Able)...was it incest? And they were two boys, how did they have children? And all of those things that they
couldn't answer for me.

Although I once believed God is in a church, I now believe God is everywhere, he's in my heart...I now find God in those moments I spend with my children, I find God in
the innocent. (Schmuley is quoting MJ).

I think evil is in people's hearts. I don't think there is some devil out there manipulating our thoughts. That is what I was taught.

I believe there are some good people in the world and I do believe there is a God. But I don't believe that God judges. I don't think that He is upstairs going,
"You are alright. But I am going to tear you up."

We were all taught to believe in the devil and Lucifer and the burial ground, where you never get resurrection and judgement. There is a decision being made right now
as we talk. Jesus is putting certain people on the left and certain people on the right, adn when the end of the world comes all those people on the left will be
swallowed up and they will be dead forever. That's not fair is it? There are a lot of beautiful, good people in the world no matter what religion, nomatter what race.
If there was really such a thing as true heavenly justice, I don't think Hitler would have gotten away with what he did for as long as he did. He reveals leter on that
he is talking about the judicial system).

That's one of my favorite things to think about too, (how hidden God is).

(He does not feel angry at God for bad things happenning) I just don't understand them. I wish we knew more about the other side. I know it promises everlasting life
and being in heaven. But why suffering and why pain before crossing over to the white light, whatever it is? It should just be the most beautiful experience, whatever
it is.
Click to expand...

This is from an old interview, right?
Not that I think it changes anything, with som reserach you can pretty fast see that Michael had this view on his religion until the very end.
 
Indra said:
Or saved him?

I don't know, just saying that can also be an opption.
Click to expand...
yes saved him by taking him away from the most important ppl in his life, those kids. saved him by orphaning his children. Sure what a great savor indeed.
 
twinklEE said:
yes saved him by taking him away from the most important ppl in his life, those kids. saved him by orphaning his children. Sure what a great savor indeed.
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Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I'm just saying that maybe God knew something we didn't, maybe God save him from this world that have been treating him so bad, a world that wasn't ready for him or didn't want to be ready for him.
Anyway, it is just a thought I have.
 
Indra said:
Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I'm just saying that maybe God knew something we didn't, maybe God save him from this world that have been treating him so bad, a world that wasn't ready for him or didn't want to be ready for him.
Anyway, it is just a thought I have.
Click to expand...

I understand your thought (and I agree with you on this), but I also can understand this can be very difficult to undertand for many people. It takes a lot of faith and trust in God, in his knowing more and better than any of us. That doesn't mean this will not hurt us, for it certainly does.

But as usual, this is not something can make someone else to believe or accept. It's just the kind of opinions we can only respect.
 
PCR said:
I understand your thought (and I agree with you on this), but I also can understand this can be very difficult to undertand for many people. It takes a lot of faith and trust in God, in his knowing more and better than any of us. That doesn't mean this will not hurt us, for it certainly does.

But as usual, this is not something can make someone else to believe or accept. It's just the kind of opinions we can only respect.
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Oh, I never said that it didn't hurt. The whole thing started with me just wanting to put that thought out there, that it can also be that God saved him.
This has hurt me more than anything I can think about right now.
 
Indra said:
Oh, I never said that it didn't hurt. The whole thing started with me just wanting to put that thought out there, that it can also be that God saved him.
This has hurt me more than anything I can think about right now.
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Yes, friend, I know you didn't, I have been following the thread for a while now and I can't but agree with you (again, as when you first mentioned this). I just mentioned that because, sometimes, people might think that because of this hope/understanding, we don't feel the pain. Of course we do and so did Jesus feel the pain when he knew one of hid dear friends had died... even when he knew he could bring him to life again. I think I understand your point in this. But yes, the pain... that can't be taken away.
 
Indra said:
Oh, I never said that it didn't hurt. The whole thing started with me just wanting to put that thought out there, that it can also be that God saved him.
This has hurt me more than anything I can think about right now.
Click to expand...

There is no god. But even by what you're saying, if a deity "saved" Michael, then that deity must have been torturing his children, right?
 
arXter said:
There is no god. But even by what you're saying, if a deity "saved" Michael, then that deity must have been torturing his children, right?
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No, no, no.... I'm sorry, people seem to missunderstand what I'm saying.
I believe there is a God. All I was saying to someone who wasn't that happy with God was that maybe there is different side to this that we don't know.
I was just puting a thought out there, and that was what I wrote to start with.
 
Sorry Indra, I didn't notice TwinklEE's reply to you above.

Anyway, death is complicated enough as it is. Bringing god into it doesn't just unnecessarily complicate it by ten-fold, but also patronises the situation with whatever excuse one drills up for why god "takes innocent souls away".
 
hey on a christian channels the reverend who preached at mj's private funeral was talking about how michael and him would have bible studies on the phone while he was rehearshing for TII and he said mj was a chrisitan
 
billyworld99 said:
hey on a christian channels the reverend who preached at mj's private funeral was talking about how michael and him would have bible studies on the phone while he was rehearshing for TII and he said mj was a chrisitan
Click to expand...

Are you serious? What channel?
Can you tell me more about this please, if you know anything more than that.

Anyone know what the reverend who had the funeral was, his name?
 
billyworld99 said:
hey on a christian channels the reverend who preached at mj's private funeral was talking about how michael and him would have bible studies on the phone while he was rehearshing for TII and he said mj was a chrisitan
Click to expand...

As far as I know (and I just knew this by reading some magazines, blogs, forums, so please take that into account), the private service Michael had (before the memorial) was actually a Jehovah's Witness speech conducted by Michael’s cousin, Wendell Hawkins, which is what we have when someone dies. In that service they song a very beutiful praise call "Life with no end, at last", which are also the words Rebbie dedicated to Mike on the memorial brochure.

Now... I am among the first to distrust media when it comes to MJ, but in this particular case, they explained very well the details of what this kind of speeches are, and I can tell they must be right, since they are quoting the biblical passages JW used to understand what happens when we died and also because of they give the right title of the song used for this ocassions.

One of those accounts can be found here: http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20290557,00.html. But there is a major mistake there. When they quote the person who gave them the information, they say this:

Fossett, who is not a Jehovah's Witness, describes the service as "spoken in a way that their belief is that he [God] is going to be back on this earth."

The "[God]" was added by the magazine. And it was WRONGLY added, for the "he" means Michael, not God. How could God come back the earth? :) It's Michael what "he" means. We believe we will live on earth again. Not God will live again on earth... During this speech we will be reminded about that hope.
 
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it's called tbn christian network and clifton davis who wrote never can say goodbye for the jackson 5 and the guy who preached at mj's televised memorial not the funeral (sorry about that) was talking about mj and michael was telling him about his love for god and thankful for the gift he was giving, randy the one asked him to speak at the memorial
 
PCR said:
As far as I know (and I just knew this by reading some magazines, blogs, forums, so please that into account), the private service Michael had (before the memorial) was actually a Jehovah's Witness speech conducted by Michael’s cousin, Wendell Hawkins, which is what we have when someone dies. In that service they song a very beutiful praise call "Life with no end, at last", which are also the words Rebbie dedicated to Mike on the memorial brochure.

Now... I am among the first to distrust media when it comes to MJ, but in this particular case, they explained very well the details of what this kind of speeches are, and I can tell they must be right, since they are quoting the biblical passages JW used to understand what happens when we died and also because of they give the right title of the song used for this ocassions.

One of those accounts can be found here: http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20290557,00.html. But there is a major mistake there. When they quote the person who gave them the information, they say this:

Fossett, who is not a Jehovah's Witness, describes the service as "spoken in a way that their belief is that he [God] is going to be back on this earth."

The "[God]" was added by the magazine. And it was WRONGLY added, for the "he" means Michael, not God. How could God come back the earth? :) It's Michael what "he" means. We believe we will live on earth again. Not God will live again on earth... During this speech we will be reminded about that hope.
Click to expand...

Oh thanks, PCR for that link. I had not seen that write up mentioning the witnesses. That was good to hear. And, comforting.:)
 
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Indra said:
No, no, no.... I'm sorry, people seem to missunderstand what I'm saying.
I believe there is a God. All I was saying to someone who wasn't that happy with God was that maybe there is different side to this that we don't know.
I was just puting a thought out there, and that was what I wrote to start with.
Click to expand...


I have been reading this discussion off and on, so I decided to add my beliefs on the subject. Since this kind of turn into God or no God discussion, I will address that.

People like to blame God for what happen in the world and to what happen to Michael, but that is actually a narrow way of looking at it, in my opinion. You say God let Michael down, but it is more in the lines that human natural let Michael down. We blame the world's troubles on God, yet who is really to blame. God doesn't take money away from the poor so the rich can live happily. God doesn't make those planes crash when someone does not inspect the plane correctly or the pilot makes a mistake. It was not God who guns downs people in the streets, or robs and murders from others. That is all us.

We can say that God can make a perfect world, but if he wanted that he would had made us like the other animals of this planet. Completely incompatible of doing evil and living by the laws of nature. Namely, we lose the free will that we all seem to love so much.

We God gave us or we took, depending if you believing the Bible on that, free will, we were given reasonability to care for our fellow men and care for this planet. However, we often chose to do the opposite not on God's say so, but for our means.

In my views, God is the ultimate parent. He gives us everything we need to do the right thing and does guide us in our hour of need. Which is why babies and children are born innocent because they are born with the set of values and love that God wants to to spread and live by. However, like any good parent, there comes a time when you have to step back and let your child raise and fall on their own. They have to find their own path in life and their own answers.

God gave us these values, but it is us that decide what to do with them. Unfortunately, we chose to misuse or ignore the gifts and values that are instill within us. When we lie, cheat, and steal from others, we know what we are doing is bad. We know we are hurting others, but we chose to ignore it. Until we finally reach the point that we become so disconnected from ourselves that we no longer care about others, it becomes only about ourselves. Even those who keeps some their values becomes so absorb in their own world that the ignore the cries of others. Which is why there is a saying "evil only wins when good men does nothing."

Blaming God for the troubles we often make ourselves is very much like a kid who blames their parents for not helping them get by in life. Our parents love us and wish us the best, but a true parent wouldn't help their child every time they mess up or get themselves in trouble. If you help a child too much, they will depend on you for the rest of their lives and will never grow unto the person they were meant to be.

God loves us, to that I have no doubt, but he will not save us from ourselves either. He gave us everything we need to make a perfect world and know we are capable of doing it without him holding our hands. Which is why he chose not to get involve in the world's affairs or even show himself. If he wanted everyone to believe him, he would had done so and their would be no such thing as doubt. But, God wants us to find our own path and if that means denying his existence, I think he does not mind. As long as you use what is instill in us and help our fellow men, that is doing God's work even if you say you don't believe in him. That is regardless of religion or background.

So, the troubles that we face are not on God, but on ourselves. It is easy to blame God for our failures or to say he should had protected us or the innocent, however, that job stopped being God's along time ago. It is now on our shoulders. We may succeed and someday become spiritual enlighten beings who love and care for others or we will destroy ourselves. God is aware of this, but he knows it is the only way we will grow. For it is the human struggle that makes us who we are today. From our wars, to diseases, to our selfish need to hurt one another, it is all needed for us go grow. Because as we can see for ourselves, a life with struggles is not really a life worth living. You have to taste bitter to understand the sweetness of life.

As to how this maintain to Michael, his death in my opinion is not that God let him down. It is the case of once again, mankind letting Michael down. Murray, whether you like it or not, is apart of mankind. Also, Michael carries some reasonability too because his actions help lead to his death. I am by no means blaming Michael for what happen or saying he brought this on himself, but it was his decision to what he did that night. As anyone part of the human race, we must take reasonability for our actions, even if we have justifiable reasons for those actions. Just as Murray will have to take reasonability for his actions, or lack of action, that night.

My main point is that blaming God for all the world's trouble is taking reasonability out of our own hands and trying to put it back on God. We have been given the gift or curse of free will, so we are the ones who need to take reasonability for the actions of our fellow men and ourselves.


That is my two cent and sorry about the long winded post.
 
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ginvid said:
Oh thanks, PCR for that link. I had not seen that write up mentioning the witnesses. That was good to hear. And, comforting.:)
Click to expand...

You are welcome.
Yes... it is indeed :)
 
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