MJ LAPD Investigation: Authorities taking their time in Jackson case

If the DEA had a search warrant, that's federal jurisdiction so the LAPD & the State of California have no power over that and cannot interfere or act on behalf of the DEA - otherwise that would be obstruction of justice.

when Murray offices and houses in Houston and Las vegas raided and even when the pharamcy in Las vegas was raided both the lapd and DEA were present , but when the mikey pharmacy was raided only the DEA was present .
 
when Murray offices and houses in Houston and Las vegas raided and even when the pharamcy in Las vegas was raided both the lapd and DEA were present , but when the mikey pharmacy was raided only the DEA was present .


The LAPD was present in those searches because it had to do with the MJ murder investigation.

I do know that the DEA is conducting a separate investigation on a federal level - so it's quite possible that the LAPD was not required to be present at Mickey Fine's pharmacy search.
 
seems to me mj and murray went to abrams to ask him about how to administer the drug. to teach murray. question is when did murray come on board, we now have a date of march. how much further does it go back?

much further what? the propofol or murray being with mj?
 
The LAPD was present in those searches because it had to do with the MJ murder investigation.

I do know that the DEA is conducting a separate investigation on a federal level - so it's quite possible that the LAPD was not required to be present at Mickey Fine's pharmacy search.

that's my point, when it had to do with mj's death the LAPD were present .
 
I agree with you. It looks like they are determined to stick Murray with a "prescribing to an addict" charge as well. They claim they're having a hard time rounding up MJ's "medical history" becuz of the aliases but, imo, what they really mean is they're having a hard time proving Michael's addictions versus a possible dependency due to legitimate causes.

The article here claims they plan to use this "addiction" to show it led to his death. Uhhh, what led to his death was too much propofol and an overload of benzos...all given to Michael by hands other than his own.

I never thought the LAPD were genuinely interested in Michael's case as a possible homicide. I feel they were forced to follow up when information became too public for them to ignore. From day one, they took MJ's death as a celebrity addict overdose case. Never securing the scene was the first indication they were ready to wrap this ish up and call it a day.



Not only did he lie but he purposely left out information. He didn't tell the paramedics on the scene he gave Michael propofol and he failed to tell police he made phone calls that morning. His attorney claimed the police never asked Murray if he made phone calls that morning which goes to show Murray was already playing the game of "if they don't ask, you don't tell" with the police. That's not something a man who wanted to tell the truth would do. If they asked him to recount what he did that morning and he conveniently left out making those calls, he was purposely being deceitful. A jury will wonder WHY the need for omission. It makes you wonder what else the police didn't ask Murray and he didn't volunteer.




I'm inclined to agree with you about exonerating evidence over incriminating...at the very least something to soften Murray's blow with a jury. As for looking at other doctors, they could also be looking for the doctor who showed Murray how to administer propofol. That may explain Murray's need to meet with Dr. Adams.



Really pay attention to the bolded part. Agwara doesn't say what took place during the meeting (of course) but is adamant propofol was not administered to Michael or anyone during that meeting. He doesn't say whether or not Adams discussed HOW to admininster it with Murray? Talking about administering propofol and doing the act are 2 separate things. The thing is this...someone had to show Murray what to do if he didn't already know. Who better than an actual anesthesiologist? Who knows if Murray tried to recruit Adams in some way, but Adams-- having the good sense the good Lord gave him wasn't having it. Teaching Murray may have been the next best thing, imo. If anything, it's going to be a case of Murray against Adams about what happened that day, but Imma say Adams has the upper hand.

Adams- all his patients woke up; no credibility issues thus far
Murray- Michael died; crapload of lies behind him

And that brings me to my last points.



What we do know is, according to Nurse Lee (if you believe her), altho Michael was aware, he knew that he needed to be monitored for this to be safe. I doubt he had any expectation that he would be left "unmonitored" and therefore, "unsafe" by Dr. Murray at any time. So even IF he was aware of the risks and decided to take it, he had the expectation of safety under the watchful eye of someone he deemed a professional...someone who presented themselves as a capable professional. That has to count for something, imo.



Uhh... "involuntary" generally means someone had no intention of doing something or rather something happened for which they had very little or no control over. IF he researched it (a voluntary act) and he was aware of the risks (consciousness), YET didn't excercise due caution and circumspection before administering it (another voluntary act), how in the hell is it IN-voluntary manslaughter? Come on, now. Get otta here with that nonsense.

To me, involuntary manslaughter would have been IF he had done everything in his power to insure Michael was properly monitored, proper equipment to resusitate him was available, AND he had not done a single thing (like say, pump Michael with other drugs which might accelerate propofol's effect) during the administration of the drug. THAT would be involuntary manslaughter becuz it would mean this doctor did everything correctly and did everything in his power to protect, preserve and restore Michael's life and all efforts failed despite that. That's what I would categorize as being beyond someone's control.

That wasn't the case here. We have a doctor who pumped Michael with benzos and propofol and then left the room to make 45 minutes worth of phone calls during the time he claims he was trying to save Michael's life. Chernoff tried to clean it up and say Murray didn't have to leave the room to make the calls but poor thing forgot he initially told ABC that his client "fortuitously" entered Michael's room and found him not breathing. Uhhh in case Chernoff didn't know, one has to be OUT of the room before one can ENTER it. DUH! So was Murray out or was he in?? Make up your lying little minds, eh? :smilerolleyes: Making the conscious decision to leave the room (another voluntary act) while a person is under propofol sounds like conscious disregard for human life to me. Every anesthesiologist and expert I've heard talk about this subject has said a patient shouldn't be left unmonitored under zero circumstances. Murray will never find an expert to side with him and agree it was okay for him to do so...even to take a 2-minute pee. Second Degree Murder...clear as day. And if lividity shows time of death was earlier than suspected, it would show he delayed calling for help long before he claimed and covered up.

Justice may be slow but it'll come. Murray's not going to get away with this by a longshot. If he does, the Jackson family should consider putting the LAPD on their list of ppl to sue for incompetence. How can a man who admits what he's done, which is clearly wrong no matter how you slice it, and has told obvious lies, walk? Even Dr. Kevorkian was locked up and his victim asked to die.

Translation: The victim has nothing to do with it when his life is taken or harmed by the hands of another. If that's the case you'd have ppl getting away with murder everyday. "Oh you shot Johnny in head becuz he cut you off in traffic? Well, Johnny was a known a-hole anyway, so we won't prosecute." Uhh I don't think so.


AND THIS is why when YOU post something.. I read EVERY word, because it's WORTH reading. And you've basically summed up here what I wanted to post but what would have ended up being WAY less diplomatic.

People, we all need to CALM down. I know it LOOKS like an open and shut case, but we ALL know that NOTHING with Michael in life and even in death it seems was open and shut. Please read Wendy's original post again... there was soooo much going on with Michael, with Murray, and with other doctors and there is so much more to this story than "Murray killed Mike let's throw him in prison." So much more. We HAVE to be patient.
 
EPIC FAIL if they don't charge Murray..... There will be some smoke in the city if Michael's death is not avenged..

However, I can understand them wanting to make sure they have whatever it is they need to make the charges stick.. I wld want them to do a complete and competent investigation rather than go into the court room half cocked and the judge throws the case out....
 
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EPIC FAIL if they don't charge Murray..... There will be some smoke in the city if Michael's death is not avenged.. I know several fans that are ready to march on down to the DA's office and to put a fire under their asses..

See I feel like it WILL happen. Someone HAS to be held responsible because the death has already been ruled a homicide. Since Michael could NOT have killed himself, Murray has to be charged. I just think that it's taking so long basically because the shit is complicated. More so than we originally thought. Or can see. We have NO idea what is going on behind the scenes so all we can do is wait.

Not that that is directed towards you hun, just in general. :D
 
EPIC FAIL if they don't charge Murray..... There will be some smoke in the city if Michael's death is not avenged.. I know several fans that are ready to march on down to the DA's office and to put a fire under their asses..


Hell will seem like a cold damp place if somebody isn't charged for Michael's murder.
 
they want it to be complicated not it is complicated, it would have been complicated if there were drugs traced in mj's body which were prescribed by other doctors , that's not the case here .

the cause of his death is pretty known . Lucey peterson husband was thrown in jail for much much less evidence that the one available in this case .
 
you are confusing things here, what happenexd in 1993 , or between 2000 and 2003 has nothing to do with mj's death . they want to go after the other doctors well good luck but don't say we are having difficulties since jacksons had many different doctors, non of the other doctors caused his death, no one but murray was there, no one but murray administered the drugs and no one but murray prescribed the drugs that killed mj , WHAT DO OTHER DOCTORS HAVE TO DO WITH HIS DEATH ?
 
no one but murray prescribed the drugs that killed mj , WHAT DO OTHER DOCTORS HAVE TO DO WITH HIS DEATH ?


That's a very valid point.

I have a theory that the DEA & FBI is piggybacking on the LAPD investigation which is slowing down the pace of the investigation.

HOWEVER, if the DEA & FBI are involved (which they should be since crimes were committed in both California and Nevada) - I'm hoping that this will make the investigation more thoroughly accurate.

And having the FBI & DEA breathing down the LAPD's neck is a good thing, IMHO.
 
the only one who is going to face the music is klien because he WAS SELF PRESCRIBING , and they are not gonna get him on anything related to mj , or any other doctor , because all of the other doctors will claim they did not have any idea mj had other doctors prescribing to him that if we want to believe he was doctor shopping , the police will hardly have a case against any one beside murray and klien . even those who gave mj propofol as i said before THEY DID FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS THERE WAS NOTHING ILLEGAL , PERIOD.

MJ did suffer from medical conditions and surgeries that would justify the meds the docs were prescribing for him , THERE IS NO CASE AGAINST ANY ONE .
 
well, Murray knew mj for at least two years before he was hired for the TIT tour, he was officially part of the team May 2009 .

what I want to understand why and HOW did he prescribe 9 bottles of temazepam to mj when he only strated weaning him off his "addcition" to propofol two days before his death . and why there was an empty PILL bottle of lorazepam and another empty PILL bottle of midazolepan in mj's bathroom .
 
guys I do understand that they need time to investigate but I can't understand how many believe that it had to do with the other doctors since they are completelly out of the picture regarding mj's death ..

the investigation and the case is about homicide , not mj's history with doctors and meds .
 
well, Murray knew mj for at least two years before he was hired for the TIT tour, he was officially part of the team May 2009 .

what I want to understand why and HOW did he prescribe 9 bottles of temazepam to mj when he only strated weaning him off his "addcition" to propofol two days before his death . and why there was an empty PILL bottle of lorazepam and another empty PILL bottle of midazolepan in mj's bathroom .
cause using it to wean him off is B.s. he was giving mj the benzos for a long time? was mj addicted to them?
 
guys I do understand that they need time to investigate but I can't understand how many believe that it had to do with the other doctors since they are completelly out of the picture regarding mj's death ..

the investigation and the case is about homicide , not mj's history with doctors and meds .

agree the other doctors is a side issue yes they may want to go after them in the future but interms of murray its not really relevent
 
See I feel like it WILL happen. Someone HAS to be held responsible because the death has already been ruled a homicide. Since Michael could NOT have killed himself, Murray has to be charged. I just think that it's taking so long basically because the shit is complicated. More so than we originally thought. Or can see. We have NO idea what is going on behind the scenes so all we can do is wait.

Not that that is directed towards you hun, just in general. :D


lol@HBH, I got ya...
It's the waiting I think that is getting to most of us..and the simple fact that we all don't want Murray walking around while Michael is no longer walking around..
 
cause using it to wean him off is B.s. he was giving mj the benzos for a long time? was mj addicted to them?

that's what I want to know, all these bottles there , fo what ? and How could he prescribe them ? he did prescribe them but HOW?
 
Oh fucking great! :mat: I don't know if they will ever charge the doc or docs that killed Michael. They better be gathering more evidence, I have a huge hunch that no one will be charged. :cry:

i agree with you and that's just awfull:doh:
 
cause using it to wean him off is B.s. he was giving mj the benzos for a long time? was mj addicted to them?

guys I do understand that they need time to investigate but I can't understand how many believe that it had to do with the other doctors since they are completelly out of the picture regarding mj's death ..

the investigation and the case is about homicide , not mj's history with doctors and meds .

"Homicide," at least so far in MJ's death is a medical term, his manner of death. In reading a lot of things about the investigation, it seems to me that the LAPD are gathering evidence to support either charges of manslaughter OR second-degree murder. And this would be why they'd be investigating other doctors, to see if Murray had any connection/contact with them--because that would give them more evidence to support their case against Murray.

The following is from an article from the Associated Press. I believe it's been on CNN and several other news sources. This is just one part of the article but I think it's helpful here:

"Vesna Maras, a former Los Angeles deputy district attorney who spent 12 years trying medical and pharmacological cases for the office, noted it is not illegal to simply administer propofol.

"If he didn't research the drug that would be conscious disregard of the risk to human life, which is second-degree murder," she said. "If he did research it, was aware of the risks and didn't exercise due caution and circumspection before administering it, that is involuntary manslaughter."

Criminal defense attorney Steve Cron cited the fact other agencies including the DEA have simultaneous probes involving other doctors who prescribed medications to Jackson and pharmacies that filled the prescriptions. If all investigations must be completed before charges are filed, it could take considerable time.

In the Anna Nicole Smith drug case, it took authorities 2 1/2 years to bring charges against her doctors and boyfriend. And the counts were less serious — supplying drugs to an addict.

Lee noted once charges are filed, "the clock starts ticking" on statutory time limits for prosecution. So, 'what's the rush?' he said. 'I don't see any urgency on the part of the government.' "

So I really think that's the reasoning for LAPD investigating other doctors, to show that Murray knew about Michael's history and what other drugs he may have been given by other doctors.

Then factor in that during the search of Murray's office in Houston, federal agents confiscated emails from Stacey Howe, who works for Arnold Klein, you can see further they are trying to make the connection between Murray and other doctors, which would help strengthen their case against him. And I'm sure there is A LOT of info and evidence that we don't know about as well. They're not releasing everything they know, because that would tip their hand. I think we're going to find out a lot more after charges are brought against Murray.
 
Originally Posted by elusive moonwalker
cause using it to wean him off is B.s. he was giving mj the benzos for a long time? was mj addicted to them?

acc to the physical exam by the insurance and acc to the blood samples nurse lee had taken there were no substances found in mj's blood. thus, if mj was on benzos it must have started later, in may or june.

Originally Posted by Oceangirl
what I want to understand why and HOW did he prescribe 9 bottles of temazepam to mj when he only strated weaning him off his "addcition" to propofol two days before his death . and why there was an empty PILL bottle of lorazepam and another empty PILL bottle of midazolepan in mj's bathroom .

that's what i want to know too. - if murray only started the benzos a few days before mj's death, why the empty bottles? and why bottles at all if he was giving mj the stuff via i/v? was murray trying to create an od death scene?
 
There'll be no justice for Michael. Trust me. We have to stand up for him.
 
i still wanna wake up from this nightmare

if justice isnt served
then we must go after every piece of evidence and present it to the world and make sure the guilty pay for what they have done to michael...
 
TinaG
"Homicide," at least so far in MJ's death is a medical term, his manner of death. In reading a lot of things about the investigation, it seems to me that the LAPD are gathering evidence to support either charges of manslaughter OR second-degree murder. And this would be why they'd be investigating other doctors, to see if Murray had any connection/contact with them--because that would give them more evidence to support their case against Murray.


the evidence we know about such as the admission he administered propofol and all the sedatives found in mj's body, plus the fact that all the meds were prescribed by him ,plus the fact that no other drugs prescribed by other doctors were detected in mj's body PLUS the time of death which COMPLETELY exposes the lies told by murray are more than enough to convict him of either charges . the case is not about mj overdosing himself because of many doctors prescribing several meds to him , it is not an Elvis scenario or anna nicole smith or even heath ledger , where many doctors were prescribing the drugs that killed the patient, we are facing a case where a doctor injected the patient with several medications that would have probably killed him and left him unmonitored , he did not follow THE BASIC INSTRUCTIONS set by the manufacturer , he did not consider propofol a drug with ZERO MARGIN OF ERROR and he caused mj's death .



The following is from an article from the Associated Press. I believe it's been on CNN and several other news sources. This is just one part of the article but I think it's helpful here:

"Vesna Maras, a former Los Angeles deputy district attorney who spent 12 years trying medical and pharmacological cases for the office, noted it is not illegal to simply administer propofol.

"If he didn't research the drug that would be conscious disregard of the risk to human life, which is second-degree murder," she said. "If he did research it, was aware of the risks and didn't exercise due caution and circumspection before administering it, that is involuntary manslaughter."

Not true at all , leaving a patient under propofol influence with no appropriate supervision , and with no medical equipment in case something wrong happened is a conscious disregard of the risk to human life since propofl is a drug with zero margin of error . investigating it would have made him aware it was a drug with zero margin of error .


Criminal defense attorney Steve Cron cited the fact other agencies including the DEA have simultaneous probes involving other doctors who prescribed medications to Jackson and pharmacies that filled the prescriptions. If all investigations must be completed before charges are filed, it could take considerable time.

In the Anna Nicole Smith drug case, it took authorities 2 1/2 years to bring charges against her doctors and boyfriend. And the counts were less serious — supplying drugs to an addict.

Lee noted once charges are filed, "the clock starts ticking" on statutory time limits for prosecution. So, 'what's the rush?' he said. 'I don't see any urgency on the part of the government.' "

they are insisting on making it another Elvis, Anna nicole heath ledger case , BUT IT IS NOT . the coroner's cause of death is very telling . NO OTHER DOCTORS WERE INVOLVED .
So I really think that's the reasoning for LAPD investigating other doctors, to show that Murray knew about Michael's history and what other drugs he may have been given by other doctors.

sorry but the meds in his system were all prescribed by murray , so murray won't not be able to blame other doctors , simply because no drugs prescribed by other doctors found in mj's body let alone killed him .the other doctors are really really IRRELEVANT to the homicide case.


Then factor in that during the search of Murray's office in Houston, federal agents confiscated emails from Stacey Howe, who works for Arnold Klein, you can see further they are trying to make the connection between Murray and other doctors, which would help strengthen their case against him.

that was a rumour , stacey Howe was the one Murray called at noon on 25th of june , the media first said she works for klien which turned out to be a fabrication .


And I'm sure there is A LOT of info and evidence that we don't know about as well. They're not releasing everything they know, because that would tip their hand. I think we're going to find out a lot more after charges are brought against Murray.

I have no doubt .
 
i still wanna wake up from this nightmare

if justice isnt served
then we must go after every piece of evidence and present it to the world and make sure the guilty pay for what they have done to michael...
I am waiting to wake up myself.
 
ocean, it may NOT be important, the other docs and what they prescribed but that'll be murray's defense. along w/ mj doing it to himself or him not knowing if mj took something else in the interim of giving all those injections and then the fatal propofol.

also, he was mj's doc a lot sooner than the weeks before he died. if not in the very very end of 06 then early 07 so he's full of it.

lividity, the fireplace, and the stall in calling 911 but making multiple calls to others shows he was stalling and trying to cover it up.

that could bring a potential manslaughter charge up to murder two.
 
acc to the physical exam by the insurance and acc to the blood samples nurse lee had taken there were no substances found in mj's blood. thus, if mj was on benzos it must have started later, in may or june.

This is definitely possible. Something I've been wondering is this....medical experts keep saying that propofol does not give a restful sleep, however, if you add benzos to the mix, I wonder if that has any effect on what the patient feels as far as the state of relaxation while under propofol? Benzos are normally used to calm someone and relax them. So if Michael was being relaxed by the meds and then knocked out by the propofol for an additional effect, is it possible, the benzos relaxed him enuf to make him "feel" like he had rested? See, everyone keeps talking about propofol as a singular issue. Very rarely, if any, have I heard anyone say how its effects might be altered by combining benzos. I HAVE heard that benzos and propofol are normally given together when a patient is an excited or extremely nervous state before surgery. But everyone seems to be giving their opinion on the effects of propofol as a solo performer. It would be interesting to hear an expert say whether there's a subtle difference, a larger difference, or none at all, as far as how relaxed or rested a patient feels, when benzos are added.


that's what i want to know too. - if murray only started the benzos a few days before mj's death, why the empty bottles? and why bottles at all if he was giving mj the stuff via i/v? was murray trying to create an od death scene?

I keep saying nothing can be trusted with this man. Even his so-called medical log demonstrating what he gave Michael and at what time. Who knows what he was falsifying and setting up in that room while he should have been calling 911. :aggressive:

*squeezing my stress ball*
 
I saw on CNN various anesthesiologists say this in normal as well - but the key is this:

The amounts of this benzo/propofol combination was deemed toxic and fatal by the LA coroner.

So the use of both is somewhat normal in medical circumstances, but the AMOUNTS found in MJ are NOT.

This is definitely possible. Something I've been wondering is this....medical experts keep saying that propofol does not give a restful sleep, however, if you add benzos to the mix, I wonder if that has any effect on what the patient feels as far as the state of relaxation while under propofol? Benzos are normally used to calm someone and relax them.
 
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