Michael's kids spend thanksgiving with! Joe.

[Autumn II]

I really don't mind Joe spending a couple hours or a day with the kids, so long as during that time they are not abused physically or emotionally.

Nor do I. As long as they are protected from all possible harm.

 

[terrell]

It's not a discussion when you're being disrespectful.

I am not disrepectful to YOU. you are just taking it that way because we are in disagreement. We can agree to disagree.

 

[KingOfPop1]

I do not think Joe has to prove anything to YOU, Me, or anyone else. Also, you talking as if you know for a fact that Joe would do something like that to these kids. YOu do not know that. Dang.

No offense but neither do you! To be frank, we don't know anyone's intentions when it comes to those children. The one thing we do know is that Michael raised those three beautiful children lovingly and they are wonderful children.

Michael Jackson forgave his father for ABUSING him. Not whooping... not strict discipline but rib breaking abuse. Michael talked about this child abuse extensively and should be believed above all else. The rest of the Jackson's can call it anything they wish, but when you break a child's ribs, that is considered abuse and in this day and age, people go to jail for a long time for it. Michael was abused - nuff said on that.

Would Michael allow his children unsupervised around Joe Jackson? Hmmm... probably NOT. Katherine and Debbie worked that out in court and I hope The Jackson's are abiding by the rules set forth by Debbie Rowe and the court. If Joe is not supposed to have unsupervised visits, then it is what it is. Actually he submitted a declaration to the court that he would not be living in Havynhurst and that his visits would be supervised. So it is what it is... but make no mistake, Debbie Rowe has her FULL RIGHTS and call the shots. She is simply abiding by Michael Jackson's wishes. If her stipulations are violated, bet your bottom dollar that she will make a stink about it.

 

[terrell]

Nor do I. As long as they are protected from all possible harm.

Sorry But I do not think Joe is going to harm these kids. What you need to worry about is the WORLD in which they have to survive in.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

Nor do I. As long as they are protected from all possible harm.

I get what you are saying.

I am trying to be very diplomatic.

 

[Autumn II]

Joe may have said he was right in his past parenting style, that doesn't mean he is going to hit his grandchildren today. I sincerely very much doubt that he would. Has he hit any of his other grandchildren? or Joh'vonnie.. or her child?

I think people need to stop judging and read Michael's own words which I posted above.

If he didn't want them to see Joe he would have made it clear. Reading Michael's words, I think he would be HAPPY his children were having a nice relationship with their grandad.

I agree.

No one knows what he has or has not done. This is a Michael Jackson board, and we KNOW that Michael said he would never raise a hand to his children. And we KNOW that Joseph has never said this was not his parenting style. What we KNOW is that he beat his children, and Michael never would have done that. We KNOW what Michael would have wanted for his children. . . Realism is called for here, and a balance?

 

[Sirena]

I just want to say this:

Many people don't like Debbie Rowe - granted, at one point I didn't either.

But I respect her. She's a mother who's defended her babies - and submitted to MJ's wishes - always. She's fought him on certain things, and he obliged. He's fought her on certain things, she obliged. They have an arrangement - and as weird as it may be, I respect it.

And we need to respect her - she gave birth to two of Michael's children. She's their mother and so far, she's done NOTHING to harm or hurt her kids.

So I really ask that the MJJC community consider what I just said. Please.

 

[Autumn II]

I just want to say this:

Many people don't like Debbie Rowe - granted, at one point I didn't either.

But I respect her. She's a mother who's defended her babies - and submitted to MJ's wishes - always. She's fought him on certain things, and he obliged. He's fought her on certain things, she obliged. They have an arrangement - and as weird as it may be, I respect it.

And we need to respect her - she gave birth to two of Michael's children. She's their mother and so far, she's done NOTHING to harm or hurt her kids.

So I really ask that the MJJC community consider what I just said. Please.

I consider what you just said, and I respect it. . .

 

[terrell]

No offense but neither do you! To be frank, we don't know anyone's intentions when it comes to those children. The one thing we do know is that Michael raised those three beautiful children lovingly and they are wonderful children.

Michael Jackson forgave his father for ABUSING him. Not whooping... not strict discipline but rib breaking abuse. Michael talked about this child abuse extensively and should be believed above all else. The rest of the Jackson's can call it anything they wish, but when you break a child's ribs, that is considered abuse and in this day and age, people go to jail for a long time for it. Michael was abused - nuff said on that.

Would Michael allow his children unsupervised around Joe Jackson? Hmmm... probably NOT. Katherine and Debbie worked that out in court and I hope The Jackson's are abiding by the rules set forth by Debbie Rowe and the court. If Joe is not supposed to have unsupervised visits, then it is what it is. Actually he submitted a declaration to the court that he would not be living in Havynhurst and that his visits would be supervised. So it is what it is... but make no mistake, Debbie Rowe has her FULL RIGHTS and call the shots. She is simply abiding by Michael Jackson's wishes. If her stipulations are violated, bet your bottom dollar that she will make a stink about it.

TRISH, you did not offend me. If you would have read carefully, you would see that I am including MYSELF. Reread the FIRST line. And you are on the money, We do NOT know anyones intentions, not even Debbie's at the end of day. So we are on the same page.

 

[ITC]

Well I'm not that worried if someone else is with Michael's kids when they are visiting Joe. I would like to hope that Joe wouldn't dare to raise his hand but who knows I would like to hope he learned from his mistakes and has softened but I'm still worried about Paris, Prince and Blanket.

 

[Sirena]

I am not disrepectful to YOU. you are just taking it that way because we are in disagreement. We can agree to disagree.

No, not to me, but to the mother of Michael's children you are being totally disrespectful. And it bothers the heck out of me that you'd use very sexist remarks against her. And the worse part is - you are a WOMAN.

Women should stand up for other women, and not beat them down. And she's not MJ's baby momma, she was his wife and gave birth to 2 of his children. 50% of her blood runs through Paris' & Prince I's veins. She's done nothing to hurt or harm them.

So please - despite how much you dislike her, I really would appreciate some respect for her and for all women, including yourself.

 

[Autumn II]

No offense but neither do you! To be frank, we don't know anyone's intentions when it comes to those children. The one thing we do know is that Michael raised those three beautiful children lovingly and they are wonderful children.

Michael Jackson forgave his father for ABUSING him. Not whooping... not strict discipline but rib breaking abuse. Michael talked about this child abuse extensively and should be believed above all else. The rest of the Jackson's can call it anything they wish, but when you break a child's ribs, that is considered abuse and in this day and age, people go to jail for a long time for it. Michael was abused - nuff said on that.

Would Michael allow his children unsupervised around Joe Jackson? Hmmm... probably NOT. Katherine and Debbie worked that out in court and I hope The Jackson's are abiding by the rules set forth by Debbie Rowe and the court. If Joe is not supposed to have unsupervised visits, then it is what it is. Actually he submitted a declaration to the court that he would not be living in Havynhurst and that his visits would be supervised. So it is what it is... but make no mistake, Debbie Rowe has her FULL RIGHTS and call the shots. She is simply abiding by Michael Jackson's wishes. If her stipulations are violated, bet your bottom dollar that she will make a stink about it.

Thank YOU. I do believe that the kids should be allowed to know their grandfather. And I also believe that they should NEVER be allowed to be around him unsupervised, given his past history.

Joseph hit Michael SO hard that he broke his ribs. This is really true. Joseph is older now, but he has never, once, indicated that he was wrong in hurting Michael so much. Michael would have NEVER raised a hand to his children. And so, they should never be around the father who broke MICHAEL's ribs. . not once, and not ever. This is easily solved by the kids having a body-guard, but seriously, I think some folks should take a step back and review the past?

And, these children are NOT orphans, and they do have a mother. Debbie is the one person, so far, who has not cashed in. She truly cares, and brings balance to the situation. Respect her, please?

 

[Mechi]

Let's trust in Michaels decision for his mom to be the best guardian of his children.
Michael knew his mom. Michael knew her true relation to Joseph.
Katherine knew her son. He just passed and she'll for sure do all she can to raise these kids as he would have wanted her. That's why Katherine was chosen above all other possibilities.
Let's also trust in what Michael already put into his children.
It wasn't the amount of time we all would have wished these children to be with their beloved Dad... but Michael for has put himself, his love... well his heart and soul are living on most in his children. The three are also protected by that.

With this said... if I had children... I would never leave them alone with someone who sees nothing wrong with beating children, whatever the reasons told to justify... I completely agree with Victoria83 as I can see where she's coming from.

But if Michael decided to trust Katherine, I'll also not doubt that.

 

[terrell]

Joe may have said he was right in his past parenting style, that doesn't mean he is going to hit his grandchildren today. I sincerely very much doubt that he would. Has he hit any of his other grandchildren? or Joh'vonnie.. or her child?

I think people need to stop judging and read Michael's own words which I posted above.

If he didn't want them to see Joe he would have made it clear. Reading Michael's words, I think he would be HAPPY his children were having a nice relationship with their grandad.



I agree, and with that said I'm out. I really see these arguments as pointless, silly and tiring.

We are on a forum. Paris, Prince and Blanket were with their Grandfather having a nice day, like they should be.

Thank you and I agree.

 

[144000]

And that is fine but I still think they need to be respected. Michael was no angel all the time either (ask Janet). But that is family (this goes on in ALL families). I could care one bit less if anyone like his sibling or (I do not think they care either. That is why some are going to keep talking because that is what they want to do); however, I do not like some things Jermaine do but I am not going to go all out and be nasty to guy out of respect of him being MJ's brother as some people are doing. TO me, if MJ was alive, would you talk about his siblings to his face in the manner some people are doing? I think not. that is my point.

i'm not going to determine anything about Michael, by what Janet says. MJ said, don't judge him, unless you talk to him, one on one. and, even then, you shouldn't judge him. other than Michael, it's amazing how some people say not to judge, while judging, at the same time.

 

[xthunderx2]

That is true. it's a discussion. The most authentic authority we have, on anything, is Michael's own words. This is not a fan-board for any of the Jacksons, except for Michael. Michael SAID his father threw him against a wall. Beat him with a switch, a belt, and ironing cords. He SAID that. Maybe his father has changed. If he has, he has NEVER said so. What he SAID was that he never beat Michael. Michael said differently. I believe Michael. Maybe Joseph has mellowed with age, and maybe not. He has NEVER said he did wrong by Michael. My statement stands, that those precious children should have body-guards if they are ever with Joseph. And if so, then happy Thanksgiving, to all.

:Clapping::clapping::clapping:.....my thoughts exactly!!

 

[Autumn II]

Let's trust in Michaels decision for his mom to be the best guardian of his children.
Michael knew his mom. Michael knew her true relation to Joseph.
Katherine knew her son. He just passed and she'll for sure do all she can to raise these kids as he would have wanted her. That's why Katherine was chosen above all other possibilities.
Let's also trust in what Michael already put into his children.
It wasn't the amount of time we all would have wished these children to be with their beloved Dad... but Michael for has put himself, his love... well his heart and soul are living on most in his children. The three are also protected by that.

With this said... if I had children... I would never leave them alone with someone who sees nothing wrong with beating children, whatever the reasons told to justify... I completely agree with Victoria83 as I can see where she's coming from.

But if Michael decided to trust Katherine, I'll also not doubt that.

Thank you, Mechi. Joseph has NEVER said there was anything wrong with beating children. NEVER. So we can assume he still believes it? Sure, there are differences in era and parenting styles, but what does it DO to a child to be beaten so badly ribs are broken, as happened to Michael? Michael was RIGHT in giving custody only to Katherine. He could have given custody to both parents, but he did not.

This is not a "Joseph Jackson" board, or a "Jackson family board." This board is devoted to Michael, and we must trust him enough to have done the right thing. He gave custody ONLY to his mother. . . for good reason.

Hopefully, nuff said, by now?

Vic

 

[Memefan]

Damn straight - Universal pictures with Liz Taylor, the Karate class & ACCIDENT paparazzi swarm, "all with a smiling for the camera" Omer.

Sorry, but I think he's a leech and shouldn't be near the kids period. He's endangering them just so he can pop a smile & cash his checks from Splash News & X Online agencies, then brag to his friends in Norway about it.

Maybe someone here can twitter our suspicions about Omer to Taj. He updates his twitter fairly regularly, and I am sure he would take this very seriously. He seems to care very much for the kids.

God bless him.

The family are all individuals, and some have behaved honorably and decently, and some have not. Being a fan of Michael does not automatically mean one has to be a fan of everyone with the name "Jackson." What Michael's relationships were with them as individuals, we really don't know at this point, except that he kept a distance from all of them, except for Katherine.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

Sorry But I do not think Joe is going to harm these kids. What you need to worry about is the WORLD in which they have to survive in.

Well, I am all for giving someone the benefit of the doubt. But Joe has been acting crazier since MJ passed. So, i much rather the kids are supervised....or be sorry if something were to happen.

Well I'm not that worried if someone else is with Michael's kids when they are visiting Joe. I would like to hope that Joe wouldn't dare to raise his hand but who knows I would like to hope he learned from his mistakes and has softened but I'm still worried about Paris, Prince and Blanket.

But then again, this is the man who has been doing his best to take their inheritance away. So, him spending any amount of time with the kids give me pause. One can only image what he is telling them about their father and their inheritance.

Everything Joe does is motivated by money.

 

[terrell]

No, not to me, but to the mother of Michael's children you are being totally disrespectful. And it bothers the heck out of me that you'd use very sexist remarks against her. And the worse part is - you are a WOMAN.

Women should stand up for other women, and not beat them down. And she's not MJ's baby momma, she was his wife and gave birth to 2 of his children. 50% of her blood runs through Paris' & Prince I's veins. She's done nothing to hurt or harm them.

So please - despite how much you dislike her, I really would appreciate some respect for her and for all women, including yourself.

No, I do not have to be nice to another woman (Debbie) if I am in disagreement with her just like I do not agree with everything what somebody does because they black because I am black. To me that offensive. And sorry not all women deserve respect in what they do. And again, I said nothing offensive. I put men in the same sentence but you did not point that out.

 

[144000]

Thank you, Mechi. Joseph has NEVER said there was anything wrong with beating children. NEVER. So we can assume he still believes it? Sure, there are differences in era and parenting styles, but what does it DO to a child to be beaten so badly ribs are broken, as happened to Michael? Michael was RIGHT in giving custody only to Katherine. He could have given custody to both parents, but he did not.

This is not a "Joseph Jackson" board, or a "Jackson family board." This board is devoted to Michael, and we must trust him enough to have done the right thing. He gave custody ONLY to his mother. . . for good reason.

Hopefully, nuff said, by now?

Vic

i agree with that. anyway, to disagree with something you said, earlier...there was a time when Michael did spend time away from his mother. it was reported that she, along with others tried an intervention. i won't say what that intervention was for, because we don't know..and it's safe to assume the family didn't necessarily know what Michael was up to. but i just said that, to say that MJ did spend time alone. and i'm sure he had his reasons. but still, Michael's wishes are clear, and should be respected.

 

[Sirena]

No, I do not have to be nice to another woman (Debbie) if I am in disagreement with her just like I do not agree with everything what somebody does because they black because I am black. To me that offensive. And sorry not all women deserve respect in what they do.

Terrell, you can disagree with anyone as long as you are respectful in that disagreement.

But please - I beg you - don't use sexist terms or debase a mother who does care for her kids like the way you did.

Debbie Rowe is no crackhead, nor is she some trick that MJ picked up off the street, nor is she a paid surrogate. Debbie was his wife & is the mother of 2 of his children. Period. You may not agree with her, nor like her, but there's no need to get ugly or hateful about it.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[xthunderx2]

i agree with that. anyway, to disagree with something you said, earlier...there was a time when Michael did spend time away from his mother. it was reported that she, along with others tried an intervention. i won't say what that intervention was for, because we don't know..and it's safe to assume the family didn't necessarily know what Michael was up to. but i just said that, to say that MJ did spend time alone. and i'm sure he had his reasons. but still, Michael's wishes are clear, and should be respected.

This is agree with..Michael's wishes should be respected....what I dont understand is why the children were allowed to be with Joe in Vegas anyway..without Katherine being there.....after all SHE is the legal guardian now..NOT Joe

 

[Sirena]

This is agree with..Michael's wishes should be respected....what I dont understand is why the children were allowed to be with Joe in Vegas anyway..without Katherine being there.....after all SHE is the legal guardian now..NOT Joe

Maybe Katherine didn't want to be around him - and understandably so.

The kids will always be supervised & monitored accordingly - that was part of Debbie's agreement with Katherine and it looks like they were.

I'm more scared of Joe running off with the kids' money and not so much abusive behavior towards them. Joe know that if he dares touch a hair on their head, he'd go to jail.

 

[terrell]

Terrell, you can disagree with anyone as long as you are respectful in that disagreement.

But please - I beg you - don't use sexist terms or debase a mother who does care for her kids like the way you did.

Debbie Rowe is no crackhead, nor is she some trick that MJ picked up off the street, nor is she a paid surrogate. Debbie was his wife & is the mother of 2 of his children. Period. You may not agree with her, nor like her, but there's no need to get ugly or hateful about it.

That's all I'm saying.

Debbie was wife on a paper than his life (he never lived with her) but I wont get into that and please do not try to convince me of that marriage. I will respect you as a poster but do not expect me to be a debbie cheerleader. Like I said, I use to defend her (me and my bubby Bee use to go at it. I even thought she should have seen the kids and have JOINT custody back in 2003 and 2004) until I learned better. However when it comes to MJ blood family, I will respect them along with his kids.

 

[xthunderx2]

Maybe Katherine didn't want to be around him - and understandably so.

The kids will always be supervised & monitored accordingly - that was part of Debbie's agreement with Katherine and it looks like they were.

I'm more scared of Joe running off with the kids' money and not so much abusive behavior towards them. Joe know that if he dares touch a hair on their head, he'd go to jail.

I agree with you on that I dont blame Katherine at all for not wanting to be around Joe...but...all I can say is that if Michael would of wanted the kids to be around Joe supervised or unsupervised then I think they would of been when Michael was here...right?....I just feel as though Michael would of had something to way about the whole situation.....maybe I am wrong...this is just the vibes that I got from Michael...especially when Joe was made to wait outside the house when Katherine went and visited at times....

 

[terrell]

That's all I'm saying.

Sirena, you seem to be a very good and kind person. That is good. But some of us are just up front in how we speak. Take it with love.

 

[Beachlover]

This is agree with..Michael's wishes should be respected....what I dont understand is why the children were allowed to be with Joe in Vegas anyway..without Katherine being there.....after all SHE is the legal guardian now..NOT Joe

This is only speculation because unfortunately, no one called me from the family to ask my opinion...BUT....

Katherine does not celebrate holidays and I am not sure who else in the family does not, but since they were not 'alone' and were with other family, I think its a great idea for them to get to know their grandfather.

 

[Rockin.]

I know this is a Michael Jackson board and I posted Michael's words about his father from his speech in 2001 a couple pages back, and those are the words I am following, and they are very important to read in regards to Michael and his feelings on the matter.

Of course Michael wouldn't want any harm to come to his children, from anyone. He didn't stop them seeing Joe though, did he? They spent time together when MJ was still here. We DON'T KNOW Joe would harm them, so should NOT assume he would. He talked about his past parenting style, not grandparenting style...he isn't parenting them is he, he's spending some time with them. Like he spends time with his other grandchildren, and they're fine.

Besides, if Joe laid a finger on them they would tell and it'd be over. Really don't think he'd risk that. They could have a great relationship - him and his grandchildren, just how it should be. I don't think anyone should look at him and think immediately that he is going to harm them, thats not fair.

Michael wanted love from his dad, I think he'd like his children to have a chance at that.

Reading Michael's own words I think he'd like his children to spend time and have a nice relationship with their grandad. SPEND TIME WITH, not parent.

One can only image what he is telling them about their father and their inheritance.

well why imagine, whats the point? its not real, its your imagination.

sorry but this is what upsets me.. people making things up like this.

 

[Sirena]

I'm not asking you to be her cheerleader, all I'm asking is that you not use sexist language to a woman who a) legally was MJs wife and b) is the biological and LEGAL mother of 2 of MJs kids.

Thank you - and again - they had their agreement. MJ chose to marry her so his kids would not be born outside of a marriage - fine. And she agreed to bear his children, something that his first wife would not do. She knows that, he knows that. We are NO ONE to judge them.

And despite their few discords, MJ & Debbie worked it out. That's it. Let's leave it alone. Please.

Debbie was wife on a paper than his life (he never lived with her) but I wont get into that and please do not try to convince me of that marriage. I will respect you as a poster but do not expect me to be a debbie cheerleader. Like I said, I use to defend her (me and my bubby Bee use to go at it. I even thought she should have seen the kids and have JOINT custody back in 2003 and 2004) until I learned better. However when it comes to MJ blood family, I will respect them along with his kids.

 

[144000]

I know this is a Michael Jackson board and I posted Michael's words about his father from his speech in 2001 a couple pages back, and those are the words I am following, and they are very important to read in regards to Michael and his feelings on the matter.

Of course Michael wouldn't want any harm to come to his children, from anyone. He didn't stop them seeing Joe though, did he? We DON'T KNOW Joe would harm them, so should NOT assume he would. He talked about his past parenting style, not grandparenting style...he isn't parenting them is he, he's spending some time with them. Like he spends time with his other grandchildren, and they're fine.

Besides, if Joe laid a finger on them they would tell and it'd be over. Really don't think he'd risk that. They could have a great relationship - him and his grandchildren, just how it should be. I don't think anyone should look at him and think immediately that he is going to harm them, thats not fair.

Michael wanted love from his dad, I think he'd like his children to have a chance at that.

Reading Michael's own words I think he'd like his children to spend time and have a nice relationship with their grandad.



well why imagine, whats the point? its not real, its your imagination.

sorry but this is what upsets me.. people making things up like this.

none of us should assume that the kids would tell, if their grandfather beat them. kids don't always tell. and Michael said a lot of things, pro and con about his dad. so it's not up to us to decide the final cut. but, whatever Michael decided, that should be honored..including if he didn't want them to be raised around Joseph. whoever Mj's final decision doesn't please, doesn't matter, because it's MJ's final decision, whatever that was. and we may not know the intricacies of that FINAL decision.