Michael's kids spend thanksgiving with! Joe.

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omg, omer was not michael's son, 100% sure. after 05 allegation, omer went back to live with his bio parents. If Omer were michael's child, do you think michael would left him out of the will? we all know michael's children were his whole world and he loved them deeply. I don't understand why there are still some fans questioned about this. if Omer was michael's son, Michael would admit and shared with the whole world. Don't forget how happy and proud Michael was to be a father! Omer was one of Michael's friends, just like Mac.
 
#Think this is tabloid dirt, I a m not surprised about Jer's kids though, there father is not spending a lot of time with them
 
Oh, dear, whenever there is talk of family, esp. the Jacksons who are all left out of Michael's will, apart from Katharine, as was rightly pointed out further up in this thread, people start to talk about blood, etc. as if blood meant good parenting and love!

As far as Joe is concerned, I absolutely hate him being anywhere near MJ's children. He made MJ suffer enough, it's well known, so I really hope that he's never alone with them.
 
the kids are hardly being raised by joe. they went to see him with randy jr jermaines kids etc.thats all so what. big deal. same ole discussions really getting boring after a while
 
Joe is their grandfather in the end of the day and its not like they didn't see him when MJ was alive-they did. He's not raising them, just seeing them for Thanksgiving.
 
the kids are hardly being raised by joe. they went to see him with randy jr jermaines kids etc.thats all so what. big deal. same ole discussions really getting boring after a while


^^ And let the church say amen!

Children spending a few hours with their 80+ yr old grandparent....OH THE HUMANITY!!

Wake me up when there's some REAL news please.

Zzzzzzzzzz...............
 
Ok, this thread WILL remain respectful or it WILL be closed. Period.

Guys I know this is a VERY sensitive issue amongst the fans, I and the other mods get that. Rules are the Rules. You may discuss certain members of the Jackson family BUT in a respectful manner. End of story.

If you feel you cannot be constructive in your criticism, do as I do, and merely bite your tongue and say nothing at all. Walk away, collect your thoughts, and then come back.

Discussion is welcomed and encouraged, but it is to be done so in a respectful manner. We are Michael Jackson fans! I have always adored this community because of the family-like atmosphere I have garnered from it. I, along with the other mods, are determined to keep it that way.

If you feel like if you add a comment and you wont be able to hold back from name calling, etc. A quick word of advice is to simply take a step back, count to ten, walk away if you have too, whatever you need to do in order to remain collected as you post.

As I said before, this is just a REMINDER TO REMAIN RESPECTFUL while posting.

Discussion is a great thing, but it WILL BE DONE in a RESPECTFUL way.

Carry on....
 
Amazing, if true. Michael left Joseph out of his will for a REASON. If Joseph ever, ONCE, raises a hand to those children the way he did to Michael, I hope a lightning bolt will knock him right out of his shoes. I hope they are never left unsupervised with him, for ONE second. Sorry, but that's my opinion and it will be permanent.


Amen.
 
ha when did omer become a grandchild of joe's? hmmmmmmm

and they already had thanksgiving...they didn't celebrate it on the actual day...only once, i think, in 05 did they do it on the real day. jw...so they had to find a way to have a 'turkey dinner' but not call it thanksgiving.

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanx.

Raising them and spending the day with them are two different things. They don't live with Joe. The live with Katherine in California. They can visit their grandfather if they want to do that.
I agree.

Plus, When MJ was alive these kids did spend time with their grandfather, I don't know why its an issue now? Seems kind of crazy to be acting this way right now. This worry game over the kids and Joe is getting very old, worn out and childish. Gosh, all of these Joe-is-a-monster-that-shouldnt-be-around-kids makes me laugh now. It is really funny to a point because no one knows how to read inbetween the lines really. The only good thing, I can make out of this is that, at least MJ has fans who will vehemently watch out for his kids no matter what. Its all about LOVE.

I am totally for respect for MJ's family. I also call for the respect of Debbie also. At first I wasn't too hot for her, I only respected her because she is their mother. But also because I just recently learned that after having suffered a miscarriage with MJ, she still went on to have not only one more child but two for MJ. That is alot of love people. That doesn't mean she's qualified to raise the children but she is worthy of respect at least. Same goes for Joe. Of course everyone may not have their head on straight but at the end of the day FAMILY IS FAMILY. TIS ALL.:wub:

*Side note: If MJ didn't want his children around his Father, as some boldly suggest, he wouldn't have willed to leave the kids with Kate, and I think he would explicitly say so in his will if he thought Joe was any danger. MJ himself said Joe has softened up so much that its hard for him to adjust to the new and transitioned Joe. We need to accept the fact that people do CHANGE. Plus, Joe knows he's got a gazillion hawky and critical eyeballs on him, he would never dare do anything out of line.
 
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Lightning Bolt = Debbie Rowe.

real talk: i think she will never see her children i won't say why but its the writing on the wall. Any way as for the kids spending time with Joe at the end of the day he is their grandfather i really don't want to go in so i'm just be nice about it but i feel what most of you are coming from but its really all about love them kids are surrounded by love
 
But when you said this:



You are WRONG about Debbie. Because Debbie Rowe IS BLOOD, her blood runs through Prince I & Paris' blood. Heck, Paris is Debbie Rowe's mini-me! And Debbie Rowe still to this day, has parental rights over the kids. Debbie allowed her kids to remain with Katherine to respect MJs wishes in his will.

I get what you're saying about "family" - but Joe ain't "family, just as much as the examples you gave. Their grandfather is trying to get $$$$ out of his own grandchildren's inheritance. If that's "family" then the kids are better off with Grace & Katherine ALONE.

And as a woman yourself, you should check how you speak about other women. It's distasteful and yes, misogynistic. Just because you're a woman doesn't excuse you from being a misogynist. You can critique without being offensive.
Her blood makes her family to Paris and Prince, NOT the JACKSONS. If you go tell anyone that outside of this board, you would get laught out of town. Just because she gave wish (Mine you these kids does NOT even know she who she is yet) does not make her family. As for Joe, we do not know the deal what is what at the end of the day. Joes is family because he raised the Jackson. Yes, he has his fault but he is still the father whom MJ did help take care of in life. As for the WILL, yes, there was a will but I also know people make verbal agreements as well. Right now, I am over my mother's estate and I am going to be the one to keep over things. You know why, because I am the one who my mother feels will do right by her estate. Does this mean she does not want anything going to my siblings? No, she has told me what she wants and she knows each one of her children. I have a sibling who will spend everythng under the sun so I will be the one to oversee it. This is why I roll my eyes each time people on this board act like they know what the deal is with this will and what fans THINK they know what is what. We do not know. To me, there is a reason why Joes is fighting as well regardless what the intentions are or not. As for me being a woman, I still stand by my comment. Men/women are a dime a dozen. SOrry but that is life and just "keeping it real". I do NOT "sugar coat" what we as men and women do in life. Men and women DO come and go out of people lives and if that is offensive to you, then you must be angry all the time because that is life.
 
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the kids are hardly being raised by joe. they went to see him with randy jr jermaines kids etc.thats all so what. big deal. same ole discussions really getting boring after a while
So true. It is tiresome. Who care what fans thinks, at the end of the day, the Jacksons are going to do what THEY WANT TO Do. the public can complain all they want, it is not going to change what this family wants to do with Joe or anyone else. Like I said, this family is attacked by eveyone just like Michael was done. To the jacksons, this is NOTHING NEW. If Joes does continue to see these kids, what are fans who complain on a board going to do? NOTHING.
 
I have no "official" problem with Michael's children spending time with their grandfather, as long as they have body-guards and are supervised at all times. Given Michael's childhood, and given no indication that Joseph has changed, due to age, whatsoever. . . . His idea of parenting was the whip and switch, and he has not changed that idea, at all, in any public statements. He still thinks he did the right thing by Michael. Michael thought differently. So, sure, let him spend Thanksgiving with his grandkids, as long as they are protected.
 
I hope that my children will not judge me unkindly, and will forgive my shortcomings, I am forced to think of my own father and despite my earlier denials, I am forced to admit that me must have loved me. He did love me, and I know that.

There were little things that showed it. When I was a kid I had a real sweet tooth - we all did. My favourite food was glazed doughnuts and my father knew that. So every few weeks I would come downstairs in the morning and there on the kitchen counter was a bag of glazed doughnuts - no note, no explanation - just the doughnuts. It was like Santa Claus.

Sometimes I would think about staying up late at night, so I could see him leave them there, but just like with Santa Claus, I didn't want to ruin the magic for fear that he would never do it again. My father had to leave them secretly at night, so as no one might catch him with his guard down. He was scared of human emotion, he didn't understand it or know how to deal with it. But he did know doughnuts.

And when I allow the floodgates to open up, there are other memories that come rushing back, memories of other tiny gestures, however imperfect, that showed that he did what he could. So tonight, rather than focusing on what my father didn't do, I want to focus on all the things he did do and on his own personal challenges. I want to stop judging him.

I have started reflecting on the fact that my father grew up in the South, in a very poor family. He came of age during the Depression and his own father, who struggled to feed his children, showed little affection towards his family and raised my father and his siblings with an iron fist. Who could have imagined what it was like to grow up a poor black man in the South, robbed of dignity, bereft of hope, struggling to become a man in a world that saw my father as subordinate. I was the first black artist to be played on MTV and I remember how big a deal it was even then. And that was in the 80s!

My father moved to Indiana and had a large family of his own, working long hours in the steel mills, work that kills the lungs and humbles the spirit, all to support his family. Is it any wonder that he found it difficult to expose his feelings? Is it any mystery that he hardened his heart, that he raised the emotional ramparts? And most of all, is it any wonder why he pushed his sons so hard to succeed as performers, so that they could be saved from what he knew to be a life of indignity and poverty?

I have begun to see that even my father's harshness was a kind of love, an imperfect love, to be sure, but love nonetheless. He pushed me because he loved me. Because he wanted no man ever to look down at his offspring.

And now with time, rather than bitterness, I feel blessing. In the place of anger, I have found absolution. And in the place of revenge I have found reconciliation. And my initial fury has slowly given way to forgiveness.

..........

Live up to the fifth of the Ten Commandments. Honour your parents by not judging them. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

That is why I want to forgive my father and to stop judging him. I want to forgive my father, because I want a father, and this is the only one that I've got. I want the weight of my past lifted from my shoulders and I want to be free to step into a new relationship with my father, for the rest of my life, unhindered by the goblins of the past.

Michael Jackson Oxford Union Speech, March 2001.

I think Michael would have wanted his children to have their grandfather!
 
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Michael Jackson Oxford Union Speech, March 2001.

I think Michael would have wanted his children to have a grandfather!
THANK YOU. I do not need to see No more or hear no more from Fans who do not know NOTHING on if MJ wanted his kids around joe or not. To me, it is the wish of some fans who do not want these kids around Joe, but who cares what fans or anyone wants. Seem like MJ wanted them around his dad. The Jacksons are going to do what the JAcksons want to do. As much as some folks have complain about Jermaine, Jermaine is still doing and talking and saying what he wants to say-sorry but there are many people who support him on doing that even if we do not agree. To me this now a dead horse and nothing is going to change either way.
 
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THANK YOU. I do not need to see No more or hear no more from Fans who do not know NOTHING on if MJ wanted his kids around joe or not. To me, some fans do not want these kids around Joe, but who cares what fans wants. Seem like MJ wanted them around his dad. To me this now a dead horse and nothing is going to change either way.

Michael did not SAY this, anywhere. What he said was that his father beat him, terribly, but that he'd made his peace with it because he was a forgiving person. There is no indication that Joe has ever said that his parenting ideas have changed.

This is not a problem as long as Michael's children are NEVER alone with Joe. Sure, it's good that they spent Thanksgiving with him, as long as they were protected. Michael said he would never raise a hand toward his children, and I'm sure he never did. The LAST thing he would want would be for them to be HIT, by anyone. Joseph has NEVER said he has changed. He has said he was RIGHT in his parenting style. Therefore, sure, let the kids have their Thanksgiving with their grandfather, as long as they are protected. . . .
 
Her blood makes her family to Paris and Prince, NOT the JACKSONS. If you go tell anyone that outside of this board, you would get laught out of town. Just because she gave wish (Mine you these kids does NOT even know she who she is yet) does not make her family. As for Joe, we do not know the deal what is what at the end of the day. Joes is family because he raised the Jackson. Yes, he has his fault but he is still the father whom MJ did help take care of in life. As for the WILL, yes, there was a will but I also know people make verbal agreements as well. Right now, I am over my mother's estate and I am going to be the one to keep over things. You know why, because I am the one who my mother feels will do right by her estate. Does this mean she does not want anything going to my siblings? No, she has told me what she wants and she knows each one of her children. I have a sibling who will spend everythng under the sun so I will be the one to oversee it. This is why I roll my eyes each time people on this board act like they know what the deal is with this will and what fans THINK they know what is what. We do not know. To me, there is a reason why Joes is fighting as well regardless what the intentions are or not. As for me being a woman, I still stand by my comment. Men/women are a dime a dozen. SOrry but that is life and just "keeping it real". I do NOT "sugar coat" what we as men and women do in life. Men and women DO come and go out of people lives and if that is offensive to you, then you must be angry all the time because that is life.


I don't have a problem with Joe seeing the kids considering he's not stepping into their bank account.

And you have a very twisted way of judging "blood" - but whatever.

"Keeping it real" is what you do, huh? Maybe you should think about seeing the reality of things, because if you try to "keep it real" under a false veil of mistruths, as you are doing now, then you just failed.

I never claimed Debbie Rowe was "family" to the Jacksons. I said that you need to stop addressing her like she's some hoe-bag. She's Paris' & Prince I's MOTHER, not aunt, not cousin, MOTHER.

And Debbie deserves respect. You don't have to like her, but dammit don't insult her like you did. I won't stand for it. She loved MJ a lot & gave him two beautiful children & lost one in a miscarriage. I won't have you dirty her name like that.

And what I bolded above is EXACTLY what you're guilty of - misjudgement.

*walking away from the thread now before I get in trouble*
 
Michael did not SAY this, anywhere. What he said was that his father beat him, terribly, but that he'd made his peace with it because he was a forgiving person. There is no indication that Joe has ever said that his parenting ideas have changed.

This is not a problem as long as Michael's children are NEVER alone with Joe. Sure, it's good that they spent Thanksgiving with him, as long as they were protected. Michael said he would never raise a hand toward his children, and I'm sure he never did. The LAST thing he would want would be for them to be HIT, by anyone. Joseph has NEVER said he has changed. He has said he was RIGHT in his parenting style. Therefore, sure, let the kids have their Thanksgiving with their grandfather, as long as they are protected. . . .
I do not think Joe has to prove anything to YOU, Me, or anyone else. Also, you talking as if you know for a fact that Joe would do something like that to these kids. YOu do not know that. Dang.
 
I don't have a problem with Joe seeing the kids considering he's not stepping into their bank account.

And you have a very twisted way of judging "blood" - but whatever.

"Keeping it real" is what you do, huh? Maybe you should think about seeing the reality of things, becaquse if you try to "keep it real" under a false veil of mistruths, then you just failed.

I never claimed Debbie Rowe was "family" to the Jacksons. I said that you need to stop addressing her like she's some hoe-bag. She's Paris' & Prince I's MOTHER, not aunt, not cousin, MOTHER.

And Debbie deserves respect. You don't have to like her, but dammit don't insult her like you did. I won't stand for it. She loved MJ a lot & gave him two beautiful children & lost one in a miscarriage. I won't have you dirty her name like that.

And what I bolded above is EXACTLY what you're guilty of - misjudgement.

*walking away from the thread now before I get in trouble*
Wait a mintue, you are doubling talking. You implied she was family. And Oh please, I can address her as I am doing. And I will continue (you wont stand for it. There is nothing you can do about it). I use to defend Debbie until I learned better (remember MJ stop speaking to her. I wonder why? no, you wont question that). And yes, I am keeping it real about thing. Maybe this is a culture difference between you and me and we have different views on things.
 
real talk: i think she will never see her children i won't say why but its the writing on the wall. Any way as for the kids spending time with Joe at the end of the day he is their grandfather i really don't want to go in so i'm just be nice about it but i feel what most of you are coming from but its really all about love them kids are surrounded by love

When MJ died, Debbie had the right to sole custody because she still has her parental rights, but Katherine pleaded for her to please consider MJs last wishes - so Debbie & Katherine worked out a deal. Debbie allowed Katherine to have full custody in exchange for visitation 2 times a week - so long as Joe Jackson doesn't live in Havenhurst nor have any say in raising them.
 
Wait a mintue, you are doubling talking. You implied she was family. And Oh please, I can address her as I am doing. And I will continue (you wont stand for it. There is nothing you can do about it). I use to defend Debbie until I learned better (remember MJ stop speaking to her. I wonder why? no, you wont question that). And yes, I am keeping it real about thing. Maybe this is a culture difference between you and me and we have different views on things.


I'm not going argue with you anymore, Terell. For real. I'm done.
 
all I can say is that if Michael wanted HIS children spending time with Joe then they would of done so when Michael was alive.....IMHO.
 
I do not think Joe has to prove anything to YOU, Me, or anyone else. Also, you talking as if you know for a fact that Joe would do something like that to these kids. YOu do not know that. Dang.

I KNOW what Michael has said in his own words, and the last time I checked this was a Michael Jackson board. He SAID he was beaten with a belt and a whip. His father has consistently said he feels he did no wrong. Michael forgave him because he held no hate in his heart. Michael did NOT give joint custody of his children to Joe and Katherine, for a reason. Otherwise, he would have done so.

I think it would be fine for the kids to spend time with their grandfather, as long as they are protected. I love Michael and his children enough to stand firm on this. I have no relationship with Joe, and all I know about that is Michael's own words, very often. . .
 
I KNOW what Michael has said in his own words, and the last time I checked this was a Michael Jackson board. He SAID he was beaten with a belt and a whip. His father has consistently said he feels he did no wrong. Michael forgave him because he held no hate in his heart. Michael did NOT give joint custody of his children to Joe and Katherine, for a reason. Otherwise, he would have done so.

I think it would be fine for the kids to spend time with their grandfather, as long as they are protected. I love Michael and his children enough to stand firm on this. I have no relationship with Joe, and all I know about that is Michael's own words, very often. . .
But what you are speaking on does NOT show that MJ did not want his kids not to spend time with his dad in the PRESENT. Yes, his dad made mistakes IN THE PAST but that does NOT prove he did not want them to see his dad no more. And you if MJ did NOT have no hate in his heart and HE FORGAVE his dad, who are anyone to say MJ did not want his kids around his father. To me, that say MJ move on even if some fans have not. I know alot of what MJ said as well and I have never heard him say Keep "my kids away from my dad" either.
 
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This is not a arguement. It is just a discussion.

That is true. it's a discussion. The most authentic authority we have, on anything, is Michael's own words. This is not a fan-board for any of the Jacksons, except for Michael. Michael SAID his father threw him against a wall. Beat him with a switch, a belt, and ironing cords. He SAID that. Maybe his father has changed. If he has, he has NEVER said so. What he SAID was that he never beat Michael. Michael said differently. I believe Michael. Maybe Joseph has mellowed with age, and maybe not. He has NEVER said he did wrong by Michael. My statement stands, that those precious children should have body-guards if they are ever with Joseph. And if so, then happy Thanksgiving, to all.
 
Joe may have said he was right in his past parenting style, that doesn't mean he is going to hit his grandchildren today. I sincerely very much doubt that he would. Has he hit any of his other grandchildren? or Joh'vonnie.. or her child?

I think people need to stop judging and read Michael's own words which I posted above.

If he didn't want them to see Joe he would have made it clear. Reading Michael's words, I think he would be HAPPY his children were having a nice relationship with their grandad.

But what you are speaking on does NOT show that MJ did not want his kids not to spend time with his dad in the PRESENT. Yes, his dad made mistakes IN THE PAST but that does NOT prove he did not want them to see his dad no more. And you if MJ did NOT have no hate in his heart and HE FORGAVE his dad, who are anyone to say MJ did not want his kids around his father. To me, that say MJ move on even if some fans have not. I know alot of what MJ said as well and I have never heard him say Keep "my kids away from my dad" either.

I agree, and with that said I'm out. I really see these arguments as pointless, silly and tiring.

We are on a forum. Paris, Prince and Blanket were with their Grandfather having a nice day, like they should be.
 
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