Michael - The Great Album Debate

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

There is one thing that I do not understand. Genuine or fake, why fans cannot act as one and simply ask proofs. Is it really too much to ask?

Nobody's asking Eddie to climb Mount Everest.

I don't understand why we get so many excuses why Eddie is NOT showing the proof.

 

[Chamife]

There is one thing that I do not understand. Genuine or fake, why fans cannot act as one and simply ask proofs. Is it really too much to ask?

Nobody's asking Eddie to climb Mount Everest.

I don't understand why we get so many excuses why Eddie is NOT showing the proof.

I agree. How do we organize as one? What steps do we have to take and where do we start?

A petition? Asking around on all Michael Jackson forums? We can try, but I'm afraid a lof of fans aren't interested to participate. They're content with the way it is.

 

[love is magical]

It's not that fans would like to continue to press Eddie for more and more. It's not that he had shown everything he could and fans denied everything. The fact is he hasn't provided one slightest trace of evidence, except a photo of a basement with a mic.

It's hard to believe he has absolutely nothing except the tapes he provided to Sony. Who doesn't save preliminary works? For instance, I'm working on our portforlio's annual report now. I keep everything from support schedules, to drafts to reviewer's comments. We used to have huge folders to keep all the supports. Nowadays, everything is paperless, so we have pdf of everything. So, if someone wants to review the works, it's there. Even when the report is released, we keep everything, eventhough it's not required. It makes more sense to me that a producer keeps all tapes than erasing unused materials. At least this is how I approach my work. I always leave paper trail.

I have no doubt in my mind that Eddie feels secure about his friendship with Michael. I respect that. All we are asking here is a little more transparency. What's the harm of sharing his musical experience with Michael? Honestly, I have no interest in other personal details. He can save those to himself. I would really like to know how the songs were initialized? What were Michael's ideas? Somehow, this sounds like such a demanding and all time-consuming request. Eddie felt confident enough to publish the songs, yet he thought there was absolutely no need to clear up whatever confusion surrounding works that bear Michael's name. Like SoCav said, it's not about Eddie. It has never been about him. This may sound cold. But, no one gave him time of the day before the Michael albm. Fans are not questioning a Eddie Cascio song. We are questioning a Michael Jackson song.

We would have been in a very different place and had a very different attitude towards ongoing projects, if this controversy was handled differently at the very beginning. Joe Vogel said it right. It'd have been a lot better if the people involved were more forth coming.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I agree. How do we organize as one? What steps do we have to take and where do we start?

A petition? Asking around on all Michael Jackson forums? We can try, but I'm afraid a lof of fans aren't interested to participate. They're content with the way it is.

I can understand the difference of opinion, but I just don't understand why is it harmful for anyone, be it the fans, be it MJ, or be it Eddie, to ask to see the proofs? I don't get it.

 

[Arklove]

I have no doubt in my mind that Eddie feels secure about his friendship with Michael. I respect that. All we are asking here is a little more transparency. What's the harm of sharing his musical experience with Michael? Honestly, I have no interest in other personal details. He can save those to himself. I would really like to know how the songs were initialized? What were Michael's ideas? Somehow, this sounds like such a demanding and all time-consuming request. Eddie felt confident enough to publish the songs, yet he thought there was absolutely no need to clear up whatever confusion surrounding works that bear Michael's name. Like SoCav said, it's not about Eddie. It has never been about him. This may sound cold. But, no one gave him time of the day before the Michael albm. Fans are not questioning a Eddie Cascio song. We are questioning a Michael Jackson song.

I agree...If you're going to take on a big name and release a song with MICHAEL JACKSON'S name on it, then you take the responsibility and everything that comes with it. Michael's gone now. So, we have producers that have worked with him who can share their stories of how the songs came to be. Tons have come forward, sharing good, positive musical experiences. No doubt they all have responsibilities, lives, work up to their eyeballs, yet they have time to speak about these experiences. Eddie Cascio, an aspiring producer, needs all the interviews he can get. He worked with Michael Jackson. That is HUGE. Yet, he doesn't want to speak about it?

If he has all the confidence in the world that these songs are legit, that in itself surely removes a lot of the burden already. It should be easy for him them. Yet, it's like pulling teeth. I don't understand. Except.........that he doesn't have the proof.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I agree...If you're going to take on a big name and release a song with MICHAEL JACKSON'S name on it, then you take the responsibility and everything that comes with it. Michael's gone now. So, we have producers that have worked with him who can share their stories of how the songs came to be. Tons have come forward, sharing good, positive musical experiences. No doubt they all have responsibilities, lives, work up to their eyeballs, yet they have time to speak about these experiences. Eddie Cascio, an aspiring producer, needs all the interviews he can get. He worked with Michael Jackson. That is HUGE. Yet, he doesn't want to speak about it?

If he has all the confidence in the world that these songs are legit, that in itself surely removes a lot of the burden already. It should be easy for him them. Yet, it's like pulling teeth. I don't understand. Except.........that he doesn't have the proof.

It's like landing on the Moon and not wanting to talk about it.

 

[Arklove]

It's like landing on the Moon and not wanting to talk about it.

Exactly....

What I don't understand is that we have producers who have worked with the best of the best. They come off as cool and collected. Yet when they talk about working with MJ, they get giddy, gushing as if they've discovered gold. Eddie Cascio, who hasn't worked with the best of the best, works with Michael Jackson himself, and has nothing to say about it? He has every right to refuse, of course, but it's definitely puzzling as to why he wouldn't want to talk about it. Even to Joe Vogel!

 

[Korgnex]

PEACE & HARMONY​

 

[ivy]

I can understand the difference of opinion, but I just don't understand why is it harmful for anyone, be it the fans, be it MJ, or be it Eddie, to ask to see the proofs? I don't get it.

with the upcoming trial (meaning Birchey) and the allegations that they plan to introduce, the chances are slim to none that anyone would comment on this situation now.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

with the upcoming trial (meaning Birchey) and the allegations that they plan to introduce, the chances are slim to none that anyone would comment on this situation now.

Sadly this controversy led to their trial. I was mainly referring to the fact that they could have provided more info before coming to a situation which became unbearable for some of us and unexplainable when it comes to some harmless questions that the fans are entitled to ask about their idol.

 

[Korgnex]

Sadly this controversy led to their trial.

Erm, nope. They were caught bypassing a certain security system.
You'll c a funny development in January 2013. Their pure greed led to their crimes. Cascio wasn't an important factor and is a shabby excuse to the other anti-Cascio noise makers (not directed towards people in this thread). Like the "5 unreleased MJ songs for 80 pounds" (tweet by Birchey's wife) and "the server was open" fictional stories...

In his own words:

got mine from Sony Servers
no got them myself
skillz
top secret stuff

I dont care for the Cascio tracks TBH
the thing is being kept in a small circle of peopel

I want to collect as much as I can first

I hate 90% of french people
fuck the french cuz give it 2 weeks and I will out reach all their collections put together

With alleged recordings by "Jason Malachi"? Of course not...



THE TRUTH IS COMING CLOSER, THEIR LIES WILL BE EXPOSED TO ALL OTHER FANS!
I know what they did March - May 2011. Do you know, too?

 

[love is magical]

Exactly....

What I don't understand is that we have producers who have worked with the best of the best. They come off as cool and collected. Yet when they talk about working with MJ, they get giddy, gushing as if they've discovered gold. Eddie Cascio, who hasn't worked with the best of the best, works with Michael Jackson himself, and has nothing to say about it? He has every right to refuse, of course, but it's definitely puzzling as to why he wouldn't want to talk about it. Even to Joe Vogel!

This reminds me of the VH1 Akon special that aired may be a few weeks ago. I was flipping channels and caught it. Akon talked about working with Michael and Lady Gaga. When he talked about Michael, I could see his eyes shined with appreciation and wonderment. Michael had that effect on people.

Also, remember the AIYN video? See how amazed Barry seemed when Michael sang. Barry, a top artist himself, seemed to be at awe. I'm grateful that he shared whatever he had with us. Michael sang like an angel in AIYN.

Another recent reading - producer of Scream commented on how the room came to a slience after Michael recorded his vocal. Even Janet was wonderstrucked, and she's his sister.

We have producers who saved things like a voice message. But, Eddie erased things?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Erm, nope. They were caught bypassing a certain security system.
You'll c a funny development in January 2013. Their pure greed led to their crimes. Cascio wasn't an important factor and is a shabby excuse to the other anti-Cascio noise makers (not directed towards people in this thread). Like the "5 unreleased MJ songs for 80 pounds" (tweet by Birchey's wife) and "the server was open" fictional stories...

In his own words:


With alleged recordings by "Jason Malachi"? Of course not...



THE TRUTH IS COMING CLOSER, THEIR LIES WILL BE EXPOSED TO ALL OTHER FANS!

This would have not happened if the fans were united before all that and if they showed more transparency.

What you are quoting is the sad result of the silence, not the result of the info we have gotten.

 

[StellaJackson]

Erm, nope. They were caught bypassing a certain security system.
You'll c a funny development in January 2013. Their pure greed led to their crimes. Cascio wasn't an important factor and is a shabby excuse to the other anti-Cascio noise makers (not directed towards people in this thread). Like the "5 unreleased MJ songs for 80 pounds" (tweet by Birchey's wife) and "the server was open" fictional stories...

In his own words:


With alleged recordings by "Jason Malachi"? Of course not...



THE TRUTH IS COMING CLOSER, THEIR LIES WILL BE EXPOSED TO ALL OTHER FANS!
I know what they did March - May 2011. Do you know, too?

This couldn't be any further from the truth. You don't know anything at all about this case. I doubt you even know the exact specifics of the charges.

 

[ConservativeMind]

@Korgnex

I have seen you on MANY fan forums and I have always been a huge fan of your knowledge and respect you a great deal however your saying that there "greed" led them to there own demise? I am curious to learn about what you think of the whole entire "conspiracy" and would love to know your take on everything in nut shell.

 

[bluetopez]

What does Eddie having a child have to do with the effect those tracks will forever have on MJs music Legacy? Excuses, excuses. Smh It sure was easy for him to cash in on those tracks but not so easy in explaning how the hell they came to be I see. lol

 

[Petrarose]

"Maybe what he has shows MJ in a way that he might not want to be seen".

Michael Jackson might have been in a way that he would not want us to know but then again that is my theory.

No one knows what he has.


Another theory which I believe might make more sense is when he sold the material he had to the MJ estate/Sony he signed a contract where every single thing he worked with MJ would belong to the estate and Sony and he would not be able to disclose.


But then again I don't wanna SPECULATE anything.

^^But you have already speculated!! In fact everything you said was a speculation. The idea that maybe he does not want to show Michael in way that he may not want to be seen--why is it that Michael always have to be in some negative mode? If michael is sitting singing away or writing a song why wouldn't someone want to show him in that situation. Is Michael creating in the nude or something, and it would be in poor taste to show that (sarcasm here)?

The idea that everything he had now belongs to estate/sony makes no sense, because the estate in their letter would say they had photos, etc., showing the authenticity of the songs.

People need to remember what they write. A few pages down someone wrote that one of the Cascios were upset about what fans said about him and his family, and now we have the same person say that a Cascio said that Michael taught them not to read what people have to say, so maybe Eddie is following this too (I paraphase). It seems people's stories change.

 

[love is magical]

^^The footage of Michael recording AIYN with Barry is amongst the most beautiful. I see a genius immersing himself in the creative process.

So, I don't know how footage of him singing would have portrayed him negatively. If it really was that bad, then the songs probably should never have seen light of day.

Again, the theory here sounds something like: the demos were good enough to be released and branded as Michael's last works, yet the process involved was not presentable to fans.

 

[Arklove]

Again, the theory here sounds something like: the demos were good enough to be released and branded as Michael's last works, yet the process involved was not presentable to fans.

Yes, and apparently Michael was SO happy about these songs he wanted all other takes, etc, erased (but...wait a minute...these songs weren't even finished hence the explanation of processing and other such studio magic). Michael has said several times that he's never pleased with anything...So, I'd just love to hear the details of those songs that Michael was so absolutely pleased with...

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

where was that post located.

 

[Arklove]

where was that post located.

What post?

 

[Chamife]

Who knows, maybe Eddie indeed thinks that you can't argue with the 'crazy' or he indeed thinks his word should be enough. But there has to be disappointment? You want people to be enthousiastic about your work. That's the whole idea when you write/produce a song, whether it's with The King of Pop or not.

So, why didn't he express any disappointment in the Oprah interview for example? If he would have said something like: "This whole controversy saddens me very much", or "I must say the authenticity issue makes me very sad or really affected me, because...". No, not one single word or expression or sigh. These little things are what I miss.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Who knows, maybe Eddie indeed thinks that you can't argue with the 'crazy' or he indeed thinks his word should be enough. But there has to be disappointment? You want people to be enthousiastic about your work. That's the whole idea when you write/produce a song, whether it's with The King of Pop or not.

So, why didn't he express any disappointment in the Oprah interview for example? If he would have said something like: "This whole controversy saddens me very much", or "I must say the authenticity issue makes me very sad or really affected me, because...". No, not one single word or expression or sigh. These little things are what I miss.

Eddie, Teddy, Branca, Sony, no matter who and what relationship they used to have with MJ, as far as I am concerned we, the fans, must be much more united and show them that Michael may be gone, but that we are still here and that no one shold mess with MJ's music.

What I call "messed" is the very issue that:

on the one hand they knew about the controvesry, allowed it and have still been disdaining it
on the other they do not have a single proof to show or demonstrate to the fans who are legitimately entitled to request

This is what I call a mess. I have impression to be in the middle of a Twilight Zone episode. And on top of that when I see some fans defending the mute-like-a-fish-in-a-tomb responsible ones for NOT providing the proofs that they might possess, is just beyond my comprehension as I don't see what harm there is to ask for some proof. We are fans, but we are also best clients, we have the right to know the maximum about the product we are buying. And that product is extremely dear to us: it's Michael Jackson and he is no longer with us. That's why I am advocating to be much more demanding when it comes to MJ's releases regardless of the level of friendship or the friendly relationship MJ might have had with some individuals.

 

[Chamife]

Eddie, Teddy, Branca, Sony, no matter who and what relationship they used to have with MJ, as far as I am concerned we, the fans, must be much more united and show them that Michael may be gone, but that we are still here and that no one shold mess with MJ's music.

What I call "messed" is the very issue that:

on the one hand they knew about the controvesry, allowed it and have still been disdaining it
on the other they do not have a single proof to show or demonstrate to the fans who are legitimately entitled to request

This is what I call a mess. I have impression to be in the middle of a Twilight Zone episode. And on top of that when I see some fans defending the mute-like-a-fish-in-a-tomb responsible ones for NOT providing the proofs that they might possess, is just beyond my comprehension as I don't see what harm there is to ask for some proof. We are fans, but we are also best clients, we have the right to know the maximum about the product we are buying. And that product is extremely dear to us: it's Michael Jackson and he is no longer with us. That's why I am advocating to be much more demanding when it comes to MJ's releases regardless of the level of friendship or the friendly relationship MJ might have had with some individuals.

Yeah, I'm tired of discussing. It doesn't help one bit.

 

[Petrarose]

So, why didn't he express any disappointment in the Oprah interview for example? If he would have said something like: "This whole controversy saddens me very much", or "I must say the authenticity issue makes me very sad or really affected me, because...". No, not one single word or expression or sigh. These little things are what I miss.

^^Maybe because Eddie does not care. He knew Michael. Michael visited their home and Michael took them on some over the top trips and places. Michael showed them a life they would not otherwise have. In return, they let him stay in their home, fed him and kept quiet about his private life because he was alive. Once Michael died all this went out the window because they saw a way to make millions of money from the relationship. That is why once Eddie made his money he kept quiet. I hope he has enough to start a wonderful family now.

 

[Arklove]

^^Maybe because Eddie does not care. He knew Michael. Michael visited their home and Michael took them on some over the top trips and places. Michael showed them a life they would not otherwise have. In return, they let him stay in their home, fed him and kept quiet about his private life because he was alive. Once Michael died all this went out the window because they saw a way to make millions of money from the relationship. That is why once Eddie made his money he kept quiet. I hope he has enough to start a wonderful family now.

I don't believe he cares either...He was paid for the songs, and that was that...Moving on...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

^^Maybe because Eddie does not care. He knew Michael. Michael visited their home and Michael took them on some over the top trips and places. Michael showed them a life they would not otherwise have. In return, they let him stay in their home, fed him and kept quiet about his private life because he was alive. Once Michael died all this went out the window because they saw a way to make millions of money from the relationship. That is why once Eddie made his money he kept quiet. I hope he has enough to start a wonderful family now.

Before judging anyone, what I find astonishing is the lack of proof or the lack of will to show the proof. Even for one song I wouldn't understand not to document it, but for 12? Recording in a studio with someone who had broken all the records in the music industry including the Guiness book of records? The inventor of a music short video film? The revolutionizer who succeeded to transform the music broadcast on TV gathering African Americans and Whites in the USA? The pioneer who managed to transcend his music into the hearts of all races around the world?

And Eddie has nothing to say?

 

[Arklove]

Before judging anyone, what I find astonishing is the lack of proof or the lack of will to show the proof. Even for one song I wouldn't understand not to document it, but for 12? Recording in a studio with someone who had broken all the records in the music industry including the Guiness book of records? The inventor of a music short video film? The revolutionizer who succeeded to transform the music broadcast on TV gathering African Americans and Whites in the USA? The pioneer who managed to transcend his music into the hearts of all races around the world?

And Eddie has nothing to say?

It's not even judging anyone...It's judging the peculiar actions...Even if he didn't want to go on TV, or talk to fans, or a Q&A, it's puzzling to me that he'd even turn down an interview with Joe Vogel...Wouldn't you want your creative musical experiences with Michael Jackson documented in one of the only books ever written on his music and art?

It's as questionable as the songs are.

Jimmy Jam was explaining that they'd spend an entire day, literally, fine-tuning the volume of hand claps on any given song...Eddie supposedly recorded 12 songs with MJ and there are no little mentions of things of this nature? I just don't understand.

 

[StellaJackson]

It's not even judging anyone...It's judging the peculiar actions...Even if he didn't want to go on TV, or talk to fans, or a Q&A, it's puzzling to me that he'd even turn down an interview with Joe Vogel...Wouldn't you want your creative musical experiences with Michael Jackson documented in one of the only books ever written on his music and art?

It's as questionable as the songs are.

Jimmy Jam was explaining that they'd spend an entire day, literally, fine-tuning the volume of hand claps on any given song...Eddie supposedly recorded 12 songs with MJ and there are no little mentions of things of this nature? I just don't understand.

Speaking of handclaps. There are no handclaps, finger snaps or anything else that is usually consistent with MJ tracks. If it was just one song, it might not be so suspicious. But they are absent on every take of every song.

 

[Arklove]

Speaking of handclaps. There are no handclaps, finger snaps or anything else that is usually consistent with MJ tracks. If it was just one song, it might not be so suspicious. But they are absent on every take of every song.

Exactly...and I know we keep harping on the fact that we want more information from Eddie...But it's just increasingly more obvious as we point out all these inconsistencies that there really is no other logical reason that he wouldn't divulge this info other than he just simply doesn't have it , hence, it never happened...

Another reason why I pointed out this hand clap reference is because this seems very consistent with how Michael was in the studio...Spending days and days just on this ONE aspect of recording...These fine details...How did he record 12 songs in a span of 3 months? To the point of him being SO happy with results? If he was that meticulous?


He even re-recorded Thriller!