ADKIc3mAnX
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BUMPER SNIPPET
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Milka, stop lurking and get inhere to quarrel with me
ADKIc3mAnX
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I get what you mean but what if (What if) they are real?
Just for 1 minute pretend it was proven real publicly what would happen?
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BUMPER SNIPPET
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Milka, stop lurking and get inhere to quarrel with me
You should do something useful with your time, something like this:
http://murrayprozess.beepworld.de/
And some "jokes" are really not funny.
BUMPER SNIPPET
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Yay!
You are right. Some jokes are really not funny. However, some other jokes are really funny. I also laugh when it's funny, and I don't laugh when it's not funny.
teli-mj
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Even if they are real, they are so low quality songs in every level that they should have never been included in a cd under MJ's name. Apparently whoever desided to release them is not only tone deaf, they must be completely deaf.
BUMPER SNIPPET
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That's probably the side effects of sucking.
OK, I will pretend they are real.
Still a horrible move, releasing songs that do not sound fully like Michael Jackson and are fabricated by pasting words to form lines, etc. A horrible move, which would make him suck.
BUMPER SNIPPET
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A full time job
ADKIc3mAnX
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I read here before some post that said Sony should release the demos as MJ left them well wouldn't that quality be worst?
Just saying since he didn't always finish them.
Update: Now they should include them as a 2nd disc or a download token to an album with the finished version.
Well, that is obviously to prove to us that the voice was not fucked......
Edit: I don't get why you are defending these songs so much all over the internet. Go defedn proper MJ songs, that were released when MJ was here. Many fans say some of them suck, maybe you should go defend them instead.
ADKIc3mAnX
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Now do you think people wanna buy seconds of a song or a complete song?
T.N.A.
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I agree. They originally had DYKWYCA, Blue Gangsta and Love Never Felt So Good on track list for the album. Why the hell would they want those shitty (if real, incomplete) tracks to be released and not these other three 100% genuine and nearly finished tracks.
That way there wouldn't have been any controversy, the album might have had better sales (I suppose), no major split would've took place within the the fan base... and as a whole, EVERYTHING would've much been better.
Oh, but no...
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Ufff.... Release them along with the songs, stream them on a website, WHATEVER. Just show us - again, defending for no reason.
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If a complete song means a copy-paste, then we don't have the same idea of what "complete" means.
SoCav
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Let's say that you believe the Cascio tracks are authentic: if you think that Michael sounds different on the Cascio tracks due to 'processing' (which many or most believers seem to do), then the demos that are free of this processing should sound like him. I do not see how anyone could not think that this would be much better than a bunch of heavily edited, 'processed' tracks.
Unrelated to the Cascio tracks but to the issue about MJ's work in general: I indeed would much rather hear the tracks the way MJ left them behind. Or, if they do want to create polished/finished versions, release a second disc with the original demos, as you say. There are several instances on the 'Michael' album where the producers did not just finish the tracks, but actively steered them away from Michael's original vision. A prime example of this is of course Hollywood Tonight, for which Teddy Riley decided to just throw Michael's lyrics for the bridge out and write a new one himself that conveyed a totally different message. The whole sound of the song is also very different from the snippets we heard of the demo: the ominous, dark strings on the demo (fitting with the original message of the song) are replaced by typical Teddy horns, making it a much more generic dance track.
I am a fan of Michael. I want to hear what his vision was for the tracks he was working on, not that of a producer that ignores this. The raw demos on the Ultimate Collection are more interesting to me than the reworked songs on the Michael album.
PS: ADKI, I am curious to hear your opinion on the comments Milka, Calisto and I made about the YouTube link you posted. (http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Album-Debate?p=3618707&viewfull=1#post3618707). The arguments that guy raised have been brought up a lot, but the discussion often (not always) stops after some initial retorts from doubters.
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ADKIc3mAnX
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Not sure what do I gotta comment on.
@BUMPER SNIPPET If they need some vocals where are they gonna get them from?
Michael is not here to go back into the recording studio and lay some vocals down, I don't get why is the copy & paste so serious when everyone does it including MJ and his brothers.
Also I know this has nothing to do with this but before the Jacksons had a life size MJ clay statue for one of their music videos because MJ was too busy and no one complained about that so why so much about the copy & paste?
Also Hold My Hand has many ad-libs according to Akon so why is it that only the Cascio songs looked at ?
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Why are you defending the tracks to death?
SoCav
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Our comments in response to the arguments by the guy who posted the Breaking News remix on YouTube. You said that we should read what he had to say, so I got the impression that you agreed with his arguments. Therefore, I am just wondering what your thoughts are on our questions/criticisms of those arguments.
When have MJ or the Jacksons copy/pasted single words from their previous records to form new sentences?
I am sure some people complained about it at the time. I think most people just laughed about it though, because it was so ridiculous.
I just commented about the work the producers did on the entire album and mentioned Hollywood Tonight specifically. Nevertheless, there is of course a difference between all these songs and the Cascio tracks:
a. If we just limit it to copy/pasting: on the Cascio tracks, they sampled single words from previously released MJ songs and tried to form new sentences with them. To me this certainly is a step further than sampling an ad-lib.
b. Obviously the Cascio tracks get more attention because the vocals do not sound like MJ to many fans.
StellaJackson
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Michael and the Jackson's have never copy pasted vocals in such a way. These songs sound identical to Jason Malachi. That is a fact. Every vocal tic of his is in these songs. That has not been adequately explained. When combined with the total lack of supporting evidence for MJ even being aware of these songs, let alone recording them, what is a more logical explanation for those tics? That it's some magical unidentified processing technique that adds a different vibrato, accent and pronounciation etc to a singers voice or that they are there because it's Jason singing? These songs should not only have not been released but they never should have existed in the first place. And I'll tell you this: on June 25th 2009, the vocals that you hear on these songs had not been recorded. I think the way Michael and the fans have been treated with regards to this matter is disgusting.
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Jesta
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Last weekend, I bought a VHS of The Freddie Mercury Tribute Concert for £1 at a car boot sale (or flea market for Americans) and I've spent this whole week watching it and listening to the only Queen album I own - Made in Heaven. Around this time last year, I believe I made the claim that Freddie Mercury has easily had the best posthumous career of any musical entertainer, and I still stand by that. Even though Hendrix's career has seen a lot more material released, a lot of the albums released has music which were controversial for using re-recorded music - phasing out the original session musicians that Hendrix worked with and using instrumental overdubs to strengthen and "complete" the songs (Hendrix's vocals were also accompanied by female background in places to make it sound more complete and polished). About three of the albums released in Hendrix's name did not succumb, and based on what others have told me, those albums are fairly good for a posthumous release. Michael's posthumous career has also been pretty successful, in a profit-oriented sense, as This Is It, The Experience, Michael & IMMORTAL have proven to be incredibly successful ventures, especially This Is It & IMMORTAL.
However, Freddie has been treated in a much more loving and less commercially-oriented way. Only one album was released with his name on it after his death, and it contains some of my favourite pieces of music. In fact, You Don't Fool Me was a Frankenstein song, using a selection of vocal tracks to create a complete song. Listening to the song, you would never have guessed. But the use of copy-paste vocals is incredibly evident in the Cascio tracks... Then again, the two aren't really comparable, seeing as the verses and choruses of You Don't Fool Me were in fact fully intact and they didn't fabricate sentences - it was more sequencing the verses than synthetically creating them. Freddie also had arguably the greatest tribute concert in history dedicated to him in a mere 6 months of his passing, as it was not only to tribute him, but to also bring attention to AIDS and the HIV virus - a very noble endeavour.
Brian May and Roger Taylor had recently gotten clearance from the Estate to release the Mercury-Jackson tracks for an album, but they have stated that they do not plan on releasing an "album" as such because they do not want to partake in a "barrel-scraping exercise" (they were strapped for material for Made in Heaven, relying on two tracks from Freddie's solo albums to fill it out, as well as other songs recorded years before Freddie's death because there wasn't enough releasable material that Freddie recorded in the last months of his death). Of course, this doesn't stop them from releasing demos as part of a boxset ala The Ultimate Collection, but the fact that they do not want to release an album for those reasons is a very admirable thing, and I hope the Estate takes heed of their intentions - I personally think we really only need one more album with no controversy around it, and to reserve other unheard music for boxsets or anniversary collections out of respect.
Again, Michael's posthumous career hasn't been terrible, but it's quality over quantity. There are over 10 different versions of The Experience, seeing as it is still being created for systems that are currently not commercially available (i.e. the Wii U) and some of the versions (i.e. the DS and PSP) are average at best - a good example of quantity over quality. Their great success was with This Is It because they knew how to respect the rehearsal footage and to only take creative liberties when it was absolutely necessary (i.e. overdubbing vocals). IMMORTAL is another of their great successes due to the sheer scope of the show, and how their marketing campaign is in fact fairly accurate - the music to it is a rich tapestry of Michael's music, and I imagine the show is even greater. Michael had the potential to be so much better than it was. I'm not mad that there was only 10 tracks - that's fairly standard of posthumous releases. But they had at least four great tracks that were at least considered, but instead they took the Hendrix route with the Cascio tracks. Michael's first posthumous album had the potential to match Made in Heaven, but those three tracks held it back into Hendrix's lowest posthumous moments.
Plus, if you compare Freddie's tribute concert to Michael Forever, there is a significant downgrade in quality. Freddie's concert was held at Wembley and had some of the greatest talent in the rock world - even featuring the likes of Elton John who duetted with Queen in the second half of the show. It also received worldwide attention and was broadcast over radio and TV to over 70 countries. Michael Forever was held in a relatively obscure locale and its only noteworthy acts were the Jackson family themselves, as well as Smokey Robinson and Gladys Knight. Aside from that, the acts were either has-beens or British-exclusive acts. It also went by relatively without any kind of attention, and it was pretty much blocked by copyright restrictions (perhaps because they were constantly thinking of how it would look on the DVD - they gave away a large portion of tickets to workers in the local area and saved the front row for people who were paid to go nuts for all the acts so it would "look good"). Freddie's concert was - if my memory serves me well - released seven years after it unfolded, so it was certainly not a profiteering exercise, whereas GLE were always thinking of how to sell Michael Forever after it happened. However, IMMORTAL could be seen as a tribute concert, but for the sake of comparison, it's not a conventional tribute concert like the aforementioned two were, so it can't really be included in this kind of comparative discussion.
OK, continue! Just wanted to get that all off of my chest!
However, Freddie has been treated in a much more loving and less commercially-oriented way. Only one album was released with his name on it after his death, and it contains some of my favourite pieces of music. In fact, You Don't Fool Me was a Frankenstein song, using a selection of vocal tracks to create a complete song. Listening to the song, you would never have guessed. But the use of copy-paste vocals is incredibly evident in the Cascio tracks... Then again, the two aren't really comparable, seeing as the verses and choruses of You Don't Fool Me were in fact fully intact and they didn't fabricate sentences - it was more sequencing the verses than synthetically creating them. Freddie also had arguably the greatest tribute concert in history dedicated to him in a mere 6 months of his passing, as it was not only to tribute him, but to also bring attention to AIDS and the HIV virus - a very noble endeavour.
Brian May and Roger Taylor had recently gotten clearance from the Estate to release the Mercury-Jackson tracks for an album, but they have stated that they do not plan on releasing an "album" as such because they do not want to partake in a "barrel-scraping exercise" (they were strapped for material for Made in Heaven, relying on two tracks from Freddie's solo albums to fill it out, as well as other songs recorded years before Freddie's death because there wasn't enough releasable material that Freddie recorded in the last months of his death). Of course, this doesn't stop them from releasing demos as part of a boxset ala The Ultimate Collection, but the fact that they do not want to release an album for those reasons is a very admirable thing, and I hope the Estate takes heed of their intentions - I personally think we really only need one more album with no controversy around it, and to reserve other unheard music for boxsets or anniversary collections out of respect.
Again, Michael's posthumous career hasn't been terrible, but it's quality over quantity. There are over 10 different versions of The Experience, seeing as it is still being created for systems that are currently not commercially available (i.e. the Wii U) and some of the versions (i.e. the DS and PSP) are average at best - a good example of quantity over quality. Their great success was with This Is It because they knew how to respect the rehearsal footage and to only take creative liberties when it was absolutely necessary (i.e. overdubbing vocals). IMMORTAL is another of their great successes due to the sheer scope of the show, and how their marketing campaign is in fact fairly accurate - the music to it is a rich tapestry of Michael's music, and I imagine the show is even greater. Michael had the potential to be so much better than it was. I'm not mad that there was only 10 tracks - that's fairly standard of posthumous releases. But they had at least four great tracks that were at least considered, but instead they took the Hendrix route with the Cascio tracks. Michael's first posthumous album had the potential to match Made in Heaven, but those three tracks held it back into Hendrix's lowest posthumous moments.
Plus, if you compare Freddie's tribute concert to Michael Forever, there is a significant downgrade in quality. Freddie's concert was held at Wembley and had some of the greatest talent in the rock world - even featuring the likes of Elton John who duetted with Queen in the second half of the show. It also received worldwide attention and was broadcast over radio and TV to over 70 countries. Michael Forever was held in a relatively obscure locale and its only noteworthy acts were the Jackson family themselves, as well as Smokey Robinson and Gladys Knight. Aside from that, the acts were either has-beens or British-exclusive acts. It also went by relatively without any kind of attention, and it was pretty much blocked by copyright restrictions (perhaps because they were constantly thinking of how it would look on the DVD - they gave away a large portion of tickets to workers in the local area and saved the front row for people who were paid to go nuts for all the acts so it would "look good"). Freddie's concert was - if my memory serves me well - released seven years after it unfolded, so it was certainly not a profiteering exercise, whereas GLE were always thinking of how to sell Michael Forever after it happened. However, IMMORTAL could be seen as a tribute concert, but for the sake of comparison, it's not a conventional tribute concert like the aforementioned two were, so it can't really be included in this kind of comparative discussion.
OK, continue! Just wanted to get that all off of my chest!
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StellaJackson
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There are 8 versions of Experience available and it isn't on any systems that are not commercially available.
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Jesta
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According to some people, it's currently being made for the PC/Mac and Wii U.
StellaJackson
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Yeah your right but not officially confirmed yet.
Jesta
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Fair enough, but you see my point that - because of the many versions of the game - some of the versions are of a lesser quality than others, notable the PSP/DS versions (if only for the lack of variety, sound quality and interesting unlockables/rewards)?
StellaJackson
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Yeah I'm just in a bad mood so likely to argue anything with you. Feel free to tell me to F off.
teli-mj
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If Sony or the estate or whomever is responsible for the songs, decides to release them, then release them the way MJ left them. Would the quality be worst of the Cascio songs? Frankly i don't care. At least i will know that it is MJ that i'm listening and not an imposter.Like i have already said, i too wanted to hear what MJ was doing musically speaking his last years. But with respect to the man and his work. If the MJ estate and Sony can't do it, then don't do it at all.